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Losing a friend (Warning: Longwinded story below).

Podicle's picture

I'm in the unfortunate position of losing a good friend. We were best friends as kids and rekindled the friendship a decade ago over our mutual love of guitars. We are chalk and cheese: I have a couple of tertiary degrees and have worked as a professional all my working life whereas he is a wheeler-dealer, blagging and bluffing his way his way to the next dollar and making a buck as he can. I'm reserved and considerate whereas he is offensively blunt. I've been in a stable relationship for the past 16 years and have two small kids whereas he hasn't been in any relationship since our re-acquaintance. You get the picture.

Anyway, a couple of months ago he asked if we needed any work around the house as things were pretty slow for him. We thought we'd help him out, and decided we'd get him to do some work to our verandah instead of the local tradey we'd lined up. Some specific hardware was involved, and as I'd done some research into what was needed I offered to buy it, but he assured me he could get it cheaper so I let him do the purchasing. Come the day of the job, after dismantling the existing decking he sheepishly informed me that the hardware hadn't arrived from interstate yet. This immediately got me curious, as there were plenty of local suppliers and all of them had come in cheaper than the price he claimed he'd paid. To fill the time we hurriedly found some other jobs for him (and his mate) to do for a couple of days. I meanwhile did some ringing around, found the supplier he was using, and discovered that he was charging us 30% above the price he had paid. I casually mentioned the next day that we'd need the receipt for the hardware for warranty purposes (which was actually true), and he was visibly squirming before he suddenly 'remembered' that the stuff had cost him far less than he'd quoted. Anyway, the job was completed, albeit with a few hassles (he had ordered a component of the wrong strength, and would have proceeded with disastrous results if I hadn't noticed).

By this stage I was pretty disappointed. He'd lied several times to me, but I was willing to let it slide and maintain our friendship, albeit on modified terms (He probably still calls me his best friend). He is supremely arrogant, and having him around the home for a couple of days blessing us with his wisdom (including how to raise our kids) was wearing, to say the least.

Today, however, he sent me the invoice, accompanied by an email where he pretty much said that since I'd caught him out on the hardware mark-up he would now charge me a day rate higher than that agreed, as well as all sorts of costs for travel from his home (ignoring the fact that we put him up and fed him for a couple of nights).
I will pay his invoice and then let him know that I never want anything to do with him again. I couldn't care less about the money, but this entire scenario has made me realise that my life is too busy to make room for someone like him.

Am I being too harsh? What would the Massive do?

17

Unfortunately

some people see that decency in others is a weakness to be exploited. Time to move on.

At first I thought it wrong of you to pay up in full but at least by doing so he has no recourse to maintain contact.

6
mark0510 | 20 November 2011 - 12:59pm

FWIIW

I am with mark on this. I went through a similar experience 8/9 years ago, & I got supremely ripped off by someone I thought was a good friend.

I paid his bill in full & told him I never wanted to see him again.

An expensive lesson, but my pride remained intact.

Pay up & walk away.

Hope it works out for you.

4
jackthebiscuit | 20 November 2011 - 2:34pm

What a gentleman

What a gentleman you are; what a gentleman he isn't.

I believe you have behaved with dignity and patience throughout, and I cannot imagine anybody, except this ex-friend and his arrogant ilk, thinking any different.

Would you like to be my friend instead : - )?

9
epigone | 20 November 2011 - 1:00pm

You're absolutely right

Pay him and write off the friendship. We don't employ friends and family for this reason and I don't like it if a friend asks me to do a paying job for them as I feel more responsible for the end result than usual. In the Internet age, it is foolish to think that a client wouldn't already have a good idea of what was required and how much it costs. The fact that he tried to stitch you up over materials says a lot about him and his opinion of you. Sorry you had to find out this way.

3
davebigpicture | 20 November 2011 - 1:04pm

Id like to hear his

side of the story.

3
niscum | 20 November 2011 - 1:09pm

I entirely agree with your decision...

and also wholeheartedly endorse the opinion of davebigpicture above. Never mix friendship with business.

3
Roy Levy | 20 November 2011 - 1:18pm

Years Ago...

..my mother purchased a car from her sister's son-in-law that was crap. When his underhandness came to light he claimed "well that's business." It was pointed out by many in no uncertain terms "No This is family/friendship and its a line you don't cross." You did well to keep your cool and he's lucky you didn't call police - they might not of been able to do anything but he'd be on their radar.

0
Tony Donaghey | 20 November 2011 - 1:19pm

I would only pay the originally agreed rate

but I can see why you might want to do it this way. Either way, it's time for him to go.

0
kidpresentable | 20 November 2011 - 1:24pm

I never mix friends and business for that very reason;

Never employ a friend, never sell a car to a friend, never rent a property to a friend...

1
stimpy | 20 November 2011 - 1:26pm

Absolutely

And the converse too - never be employed by, buy from etc. It's not quite "non-overlapping magisteria" but it's close.

I think the reason is that friendship involves a loyalty that transcends, to an extent, right and wrong. We might stand by a friend convicted of theft, for example - but are less likely to do so if it had been our own house he'd broken into.

2
Lando Cakes | 20 November 2011 - 1:43pm

One of the hardest things to get in perspective, I find

are the faults of your oldest friends. I suspect it is because their longevity in your life makes them an integral a part of your own view of yourself. That leaves it very difficult to question behaviour that, in more recent or causal acquaintances, would quickly get them binned.

Played like a gentleman sir, with appropriate dignity and dissapointment.

2
BernkastelCues | 20 November 2011 - 2:21pm

So sorry to hear this. How disappointing.

If it were me, I'd pay what he's asking for and then quietly cut off all further contact.

I had similar-ish with a friend years ago, who rented my flat. When she moved out, she left unpaid bills, and despite repeated reminders, never paid them, leaving me out of pocket. So, I wrote off the money and our friendship.

Unfortunately, if someone is prepared to treat you like that, I would argue that they weren't much of a friend in the first place... just takes a certain situation to find it out. Still painful though.

All the best.

1
Hannah | 20 November 2011 - 1:55pm

On the facts you've presented

I'd move on. When you have to question and analyse what it is that makes someone a friend rather than just "know" then I'd say that person is not really a friend any more. I have 3 or 4 good friends and one of them is my wife.

I "know" these are good friends because at those times when the friendship was tested we came through. Typically those times of difficulty are when both of you are in a situation that is completely detached from the reasons why you became friends. You both bring something of yourself to the situation that neither of you has experienced of the other. It's in those new and uncharted margins that friendships are often put to the test.

2
Ahh_Bisto | 20 November 2011 - 2:00pm

This.

Very true. In the past five years, I've lost my father and have separated from my husband... very difficult times indeed. Some of my friends have been amazing, others have melted away (and I've sometimes been surprised by who fitted into which category). Anyway, I'm now very much aware of who my real friends are.

5
Hannah | 20 November 2011 - 2:10pm

Hannah, you are so right

I recall my divorce from my first wife and losing a lifelong school friend as a result. When I was at my lowest point him and his wife chose to side with my ex wife even though she walked out on me. I could understand their desire to stay friends with both of us and I could understand they felt awkward. Despite all this I never got the phone call saying ' I know you must feel like shit, how about going out for a pint'. At the time I blamed his wife but now I think he was more than big enough to make his own decision. Still hurts though.
Regarding the original post I agree with the common consensus on here that you don't get your friends involved in jobs like this - from a different standpoint to some extent though. No-one expects a friend to rip them off however if the job gets screwed up thats a strain on a friendship too.

2
Steve Turner | 20 November 2011 - 7:16pm

Sounds like

Time to move on.

You've dealt with the situation like a gent and if the roles were reversed I don't think you could have asked for more from your counterpart.

That said, it also sounds like you may have been carrying around a certain amount of judgment of this guy as was: all the stuff about him being a wheeler dealer, offensively blunt and never in a relationship. Its tough for a friendship to survive these sorts of imbalances if one or other of the constituents is overly conscious of them.

Not suggesting for a moment that you deserved the treatment he's given you, which sounds awful, but it does make me wonder whether if it hadn't been this it would have been something else sooner or later. In fact, if you'd posted the first bit of the above (Inc about him being a wheeler dealer etc) and then added: "I'm thinking of getting him to come and stay and do some work on the house - obviously I'll keep a close eye on what he's charging", it probably wouldn't have taken a genius to tell you what was coming.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, these situations are always crap and I take my hat off to you for paying his bill and keeping your cool. I just think pre-judgement, friendship, business and a smidgen of charity are a really toxic mix.

5
eminentdan1978 | 20 November 2011 - 2:45pm

You've definitely got this right.

I would add one detail however; when you pay him, which you should do with a cheque, (preferably a company cheque, and not under any circumstances with cash), present him with a counter-invoice for the two night's Dinner B&B you provided. Tell him not to bother about paying the invoice, as you've deducted the correct amount from his bill when you wrote the cheque (be generous, make it around £150).

Then tell him to never darken etc. Resist the temptation to cancel the cheque out of mischievous spite. Cross him off the Christmas list, he's a twat.

7
Vulpes Vulpes | 20 November 2011 - 6:39pm

I like

your thinking.

It has to be done just right, without a hint of malice or spite. Smile through it all because after all you are not in the wrong, or anywhere near it, so there's no need to lower your standards with a show of huffiness.

1
Ahh_Bisto | 20 November 2011 - 6:47pm

yep.

I thought so.

0
niscum | 20 November 2011 - 7:19pm

Me

too

3
Ahh_Bisto | 20 November 2011 - 8:49pm

One more thing...

Before giving him the cheque, fold it.

( It will take longer to clear as it will have to be manually processed - or is that just an old wives tale / urban myth?)

0
jackthebiscuit | 20 November 2011 - 9:13pm

Podicle...

..I agree almost 100% with Vulpes, but ask yourself this: how good a friend is he? Has he done you any "good turns" during your friendship?
Yep, invoice him for the two nights board as Vulpes suggested and indeed let him know about your severe displeasure and let him be well informed that you will never use him in a business capacity again...
But sometimes friends can be strange bedmates, with different moral codes and standards..... some weeks ago I posted a blog about my late friend Big Ted who did something really abhorrent, but I still remained his friend.
The decision is obviously entirely yours, but remember he has been your "good friend" for many years.

1
geacher53 | 20 November 2011 - 8:18pm

Sounds...

...to me that you are losing someone you thought was a friend rather than an actual friend.

4
NB75 | 20 November 2011 - 8:25pm

Yup, I'd take the hit

and look at the extra cost as the price of getting shot of him.

It's tough when that happens. Recently, someone I thought was a very good friend turned out to be not that at all. I realised that I'd never really known him, just who he'd presented himself as.

1
Mac45 | 20 November 2011 - 8:34pm

Thanks for all the suggestions/advice

As most of you have picked up he's been drifting off my radar for a while, and my decision to terminate the friendship wasn't based purely on this incident. He has helped me out over the years, and I have helped him out. "Wheeler Dealer" is the polite way to describe his profession. He describes himself as an auction flea, so I was being generous.

Niscum, believe me when I say I've presented his side in the best possible light. There are some other details I'm leaving out because they are my interpretation of the events.

It boils down to the fact that I hate being lied to, and being taken for an idiot by someone I counted as a friend. I only have a few good friends and none of the others would do this: it's not in their DNA.

1
Podicle | 20 November 2011 - 11:02pm

In which case

you are better off without him - some people see kindness as weakness to be exploited, it's what they learn and has served them well. He's also upped the ante asking for more mnoney which if you were to pay and try and forget about he would know that you'll take anything.

I would like to hear his side though - just because he would see it all from a different light.

0
niscum | 21 November 2011 - 11:27am

My friends and I do work for each other

But there is no exchanging of monies-because that's what friends do.

1
Andrew B | 21 November 2011 - 3:06am

I agree with Stimpy and Vulpes and...

...pretty much everyone here, Pod!

I too had a very similar situation maybe 10 years ago when I asked a good friend to landscape our garden and get her usual guys to carry out the work. we saw a very different side to her then - a two week job stretched over 3 months cos we were forever at the bottom of her to-do list, appointments broken at late notice (affecting other contractors ability to do their bit when booked to do so), and a very bad attitude throughout - as if she were doing us a favour, not receiving a 4 figure sum. We gritted our teeth and tolerated it despite it being very painful and shocking in a way. But the final straw was discovering that - far from her promise to source plants at trade price - we were being charged more than we could have bought them ourselves at the MOST expensive garden centre in the area. We paid almost everything - held back maybe £150 for a bit of bodged work - and severed all contact. A salutory and painful experiencve.

I think the maxim of never hiring/being hired by friends is a sound one.

1
Colin H | 21 November 2011 - 11:49am

Never do business with friends and family?

I used to believe that it's best not to mix business with friendship - or family, and I still think this holds true in British/western society. Too many situations like this where different attitudes to what's acceptable/taking advantage etc. I think you absolutely did the right thing. I wouldn't have been so forgiving.
I lived in China for a while where things were just the opposite - doing business with friends and extended family + connections was the only way to do business! There is an unwritten rule that you never cheat a friend or any family 'connection'. In fact it is just the opposite, with friends going out of their way to give you a discount/at cost or even freebies.

0
mutikonka | 21 November 2011 - 12:57pm

It's a strange one

that maxim of never doing business with friends/ family. Is it better to do this and live in ignorance of the potential fallout or to test the boundaries and wait for the true colours to shine through?
It seems everyone is judging their close circle in the same negative way and this seems at odds with their actual role as close friend.
I have been bitten before and I am glad he is out of my life rather than having him wait around for a better opportunity to fuck me over.
But it hasn't put me off having faith in everyone else.

0
jimmyshoes01 | 21 November 2011 - 2:09pm

"Mates Rates"

Ultimately he has done a job for you - it may have been poorly executed, but same may have happened by an 'expert'. And he does deserve being paid for it.

So....my interpretation is that he is a bit cr*p at business and got himself into a pickle by adding a premium, then trying pass off some BS to justify it and miscalculating his costs etc. The guy sounds like he is in a pretty desperate state to me and probably sees you as an easy piece of business and also as someone who 'has it all'.

If he had been really busy with proper work and you were desperate for urgent DIY help, he may well have slotted you in, even though it may have put other work at risk.

Ultimately you say he sees you as his best friend, so my feeling is that you should keep your conscience clear. Give him direct advice about pricing a job (for "mates rates" and proper work) and pay him in full; keep in occasional touch and don't employ him again.

0
kb | 21 November 2011 - 3:21pm

My story of woe

I once shared a flat with a friend, and that experience has put me off that idea for ever!
She never paid her part of the rent on time, never cleaned the kitchen after having used it, and generally turned a bit nasty whenever I mentioned that the bills needed paying.
Not only that, but after a few months, her boyfriend (otherwise a really nice guy) moved in, and we lived 3 in the flat after that. I presumed that he was just staying over till the problems he had at his own flatshare has solved itself.. One day, however, I found a letter addressed to him in our letterbox, and so, he had clearly moved in. They never offered to pay two-thirds of the rent, despite both working full-time, and me being unemployed.

Needless to say, I got out of that arrangement as soon as the contract was up for renewal, and basically cut her off. A few months back, she got in contact, said she missed me and didn't I want to meet up? I wrote her a very frank email, saying that I thought she had treated me like shit (sorry) and that I didn't need her friendship anymore, if all she wanted from me, was to use me. She got the hint and we don't speak anymore. It's a shame, because before the flat disaster, I really liked, even loved her.

But yes, life's too short too keep dealing with friends who are only your friends because of what they can get out of you.

Sorry for the lengty comment, bwt!

3
missIda | 24 November 2011 - 3:15pm
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