Entertainment For Lively Minds
lose the singer
Posted by TreyRoque on 5 September 2011 - 3:23pm.
Iron Maiden, Faith No More....
Which other bands have Spinal-Tapped their singer after one album?
- More from TreyRoque.
- Login or register to post comments
-
Why do you say
Spinal Tapped?
The Tap were better known for losing band members under mysterious circumstances …
"You can't dust for vomit"
Too many to mention
Ronnie Pudding, Denny Upham, Little Denny Schindler, Ross McLochness, Eric 'Stumpy Joe' Pepys....
Ronnie Pudding...
The Charles Mingus of Squatney.
Joe Bonamassa
sorry, I mean Joe 'Mama' Besser.
Of course.
The Red Guitars
switched Jeremy Kidd for Robert Holmes after "Slow To Fade" and the cracking handful of singles that surrounded it, and went from agit-prop afrobeatniks to watered down major label taxloss before disappearing completely.
Such a shame
Saw them twice (once supporting The Smiths) in their brief heyday and I was convinced they were The Next Big Thing.
Then the singer left and the rest (and, sadly, they) were history.
Slow To Fade is an absolute gem though and I commend it to the Massive wholeheartedly.
Wow. Had totally forgotten them.
Don't seem to be on Spotify but I found Good Technology on youtube. Used to love it. Confusingly I'd listen to it around the same time as David Sylvian released Red Guitar, one of my absolulte favourites from then.
blown smiths
Blew the Smiths off stage when I saw them. But the clock was ticking - their set ended with an instrumental workout and the singer walking off after saying "i'll leave them to amuse themselves" or something similar. Clearly there was no love lost.
I love both line-ups
but tend to treat them as two different bands, with one album and four singles from each. Here's the first single with each singer
Good Technology - Jeremy Kidd
Be With Me - Robert Holmes (from The Oxford Road Show, not The Tube - I think)
Jerry decided to leave the band after Slow To Fade, but the original line-up did get back together for a one-off gig in 2006.
Check out the two albums by The Planet Wilson for some very interesting post Red Guitars material featuring Hallam Lewis and Lou Howard. These are links to their last two singles
http://soundcloud.com/duffy-howard/fly-by-night-by-the-planet
http://soundcloud.com/duffy-howard/taken-for-a-ride
I'm a bit of a fan, some of you might have noticed....
Things I Want...
I'm a bit of a completist myself, although I'm only really happy with the first Holmes-era single. Despite my misgivings, I've never been able to locate his solo album "The Age Of Swing" to be able to give it the benefit of the doubt. Any ideas....?
In fact, apart from the Tube clip and a 30 second excerpt of "National Avenue" from TVAM, there is no trace of RH on the internet at all.
Fact - I can help you with that
I've got it on CD, vinyl and cassette. I've also got both his solo singles "International Sunshine" and "Angel In The House"
The other Red Guitars related singles I've got are "Petals And Ashes" by Jeremy Kidd and "Love Dies Again" by Horseland (John Rowley on guitar)
Ta
:-)
JC over at 'The Vinyl Villain'...
...recently devoted a post to them:-
APPROACHING THE AGE OF FIVE (Part 3)
AAAAH!
completely forgotten about them too. My vinyl is in storage and now i have an itching to hear Cloak & Dagger, my fave Guitars tune, but can't see it to stream anywhere on the damned web..
This might be of assistance
http://www.redguitars.co.uk/audio.php
Johnny Kidd & The Pirates managed...
...to lose their singer circa 1964... having lost their original guitar player before even that... but still managed to sustain a blistering career up to the 21st century! I THINK I'm right in saying JK & The P only managed one album proper and a load of singles, while the Kidd-less Pirates managed several albums, but I'm open to correction...
No albums
at all during their 60s heyday Colin, just a slew of singles on HMV between 1959 and 1966, plus a couple of those lovely picture sleeve EPs in 1960 and 1964 respectively.
In fact the first UK LP by Johnny Kidd & the Pirates was a retrospective which appeared on the budget Regal Starline label in 1971
I thought this thread
was going to be about bands you can't get into because you just can't stand the singer's voice.
I was going to say Radiohead and dive for cover.
Your not alone
in feeling like that. I've lost count of the times I've tried to get into them and just thought 'No way' simply because of his voice. I like the band's music.
Even on this?
I don't mind the Bends album
is that part of that? If I had to ask them a question it would be 'Why don't you do one of those albums with proper songs on it again?'. The kind of question they love I'd imagine.
Nope, that's off "OK Computer"...
...although it was originally recorded for the first "Help" album.
I do know what you mean about Thom's voice, as he's spent much of the century so far trying to unprettify it, deliberately slurring his (increasingly cut up) words and being much more nasal.
That was apparently a deliberate strategy, as he was annoyed at, in Jonny Greenwood's phrase "being able to sing about garden furniture and still sound like he's emoting". He was trying to stop emoting, which is a valid thing to do, even if I don't really like a lot of the results.
But on The Bends and OK Computer, his voice is beautiful. Ethereal and gorgeous. Listen to "Street Spirit" or "Bulletproof" or "Let Down" for proof. He sings beautifully on the "In Rainbows" album too. Like this:
I was going to mention In Rainbows
The singing on that album is simply beautiful.
Dancey stuff
Lasgo and Sneaker Pimps leap to mind.
Sneaker Pimps were a real disappointment as their first album with the girl singer was great. The second with the guy singer who was the guitarist before, not so much.
Tony Sheridan's backing band...
...didn't do too badly once they'd got rid of him.
Not after an album
but Saint Etienne's career moved up a gear after their Sarah Cracknell upgrade.
A pedant writes
Paul Di Anno sang on the first two Maiden records I think.
And another pedant adds...
...and Chuck Moseley sang on the first two Faith No More records.
Close, but no cigar, to the OP.
Ah shit!
You mean this was a competition?
Look like I been pedantified.
Ha ha!
Tough round here, isn't it?
On the NWOBHM front you could have had the Tygers Of Pan Tang.
And do Steely Dan count?
Before he started taking Rob Halford's advice...
...about breakin' the law, breakin' the law.
I wonder does the warden come around just before lights-out and tell him it's 'two minutes to midnight'?
Heh heh, heh...
A Champion Muck Spreader
Seems that the Wurzels have done okay since Adge Cuttler lost his head in a car accident many yers ago.
Well, I never…
I always assumed that bloke who song I've Got a Brand New Combine Harvester and on every Wurzels song I've ever encountered was Adge Cutler. Apparently, that was Pete Budd.
Wee Jimmy Somerville
Did he get rid of Bronski Beat after one LP or did they get rid off him?
If it was the latter
What a great career move by the other two!
Gn'R!
Gn'R!Gn'R!Gn'R!Gn'R!Gn'R!Gn'R!Gn'R!Gn'R!
I hate that ginger khunt!
God yes!
My first thought too. What happens of you use a man with absolutely no vocal talent, and then allow how to squeak like a perpetual 16 year old, with no sensitivity or expression whatsoever? If ever there was a potentially good band ruined by a truly awful singer then its Guns N' Roses. Well spotted.
That....
...is the most entirely, woefully inaccurate assessment ever. Ever.
Ever.
Well, maybe not ever. But yer wrong. Axl has vocal talent in spades. You might not, personally, appreciate his timbre, but for a few years there he had range and power and diction and accuracy and, above all, ROCK oozing out of every pore.
vocal talent in
Sp-sp-sp-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ayds.
Dammit!
Quite right, george. Although I was about to edit my post to make the humourous tone more obvious. Because as we know, the only thing more likely to come over badly on the internet than light-heartedness is iron-nanananananan-nee, nee.
He was a talented singer though.
Couldn't...
sing his way out of a wet paper bag. Just a horrible squawk to my ears.
Must have been the appalling weak and offensive lyrics
They spoiled it for him (and me) - who wrote them I wonder?
This discussion makes me feel old because maybe its a generational thing - after all to a teenager its not that this music HAS been made its that its being made NOW.
But to me GNR are just abject template following corporate drug addict berks without the ghost of an original thought. I know lots of people felt the same way about Led Zep at the time (my era is late punk & new wave but I liked a lot of the early 70s stuff - not least because I liked the people I knew who liked it so much)
Interestingly Percy reckons the problem with Zep was the vocalist - he LOVES the music - its entirely possible he genuinely means it
Whats wrong with being sexy?
'turn around, bitch, I got a use for you' - "offensive lyrics"?
I note that when The Manics used to play this in their early days they sang that verse. When they put it back in the set round the turn of the century they didn't. Funny that.
They should have sung it in Welsh
It probably sounds lovely in Welsh
Yes!
That's my problem with Led Zep - I LOVE them, but I hate the wailing.
I'm about to shoot my argument in the foot somewhat now, but bear with me.
That's why I love the second Stone Roses album. All of the cool monster riffs (although with more funk than Zep managed) with a vocalist I love listening to - laidback, swaggering and cool rather than histrionic and screechy.
Of course, I am fully aware that a separate post may already have formed regarding Mr Brown on this very thread...
I love Zep
I think... I didn't like the second Roses because I thought it had all been done before but you're right about the funk - brilliant drummer who deserved the chance to be heard on more than a very few tunes. And Ian Brown only has a tiny range and one key, hard work across a double album
Tee Hee
It's great to have you back Bob.
The one thing I can't make my mind up on is whether I enjoy it more when you are desperately trying not to start an argument (although you really really want to) or when you just go for it...
Either way, it's great.
You still going on the 16th? Remind me to buy you a pint.
(You're right about Axl, BTW)
:D
Oh dear! I'm trying so hard to be good.
I was trying to be playfully outraged, emphasis on the playful. Oh well.
Yeah, definitely see you on 16th - although make that a pint of sparkling mineral water. I'm off the sauce. Looking forward to it, fella.
As far as I'm concerned ..
If "oozing Rock" you think means having no tonality apart from a kind of forced mechanised whine, then you just never got it in the first place.
Having said that, I often think that vocals are all in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes there are things in certain peoples voices that you find difficult to forgive, based on personality. I find Axl Rose just impossible to listen to without being irritated. The end of that song November Rain with the incredible Guitar part and Axl just grunting a meaningless monotone over it is a good example. Same with the end of Don't Cry where there is this truly unbearable to listen to held note which he just drives home with all the misplaced confidence of an 18 year old thats never been told to shut the f*ck up . Absolute eejit!
I like an argument. Civilised of course.
What do you mean by "tonality"?
Because my understanding of the term is more or less the same as "key". Are you saying he doesn't sing in key? Because he manifestly did, and can, and does.
The songs you mention are on their massively bloated folly of a double album, "Use Your Illusion". It's shit. Listen to "Appetite For Destruction". It's a different ballgame.
You're right that *liking* a singer is in the eye of the beholder. What's not is whether or not a person can sing, in the technical sense. Axl Rose can: his technique is very impressive. You just don't like his tone or timbre, is my sense.
Definitions
Tonality: the tonal quality, pleasing or otherwise, that a musician intuitively creates with their instrument. In this case a voice. The bad guitarist, for example will usually bang away on his instrument, reducing it to a mechanical exercise, without listening or indeed caring for the tonal and musical quality that his aforementioned banging is creating. Whether the instrument happens to have been plugged into a digital tuner beforehand, and he can just about finger the chords, doesn't affect this much.
eejit: Axl Rose
Sorry...
...I don't want to be a pedant, but that's not what tonality means. You mean timbre. But at any rate, I know what you mean: you don't like the sound of his voice. That's not the same as his being an incompetent singer.
I just don't think it's a good idea to confuse issues of artistry with issues of technical competence, but maybe that's just me being picky. Probably. Anyway, we both know what we each mean.
Phew, for a moment there I was...
...worried that someone might mention arpeggios.
But thankfully... doh!!!!!
Look if it's good enough for Shakespeare
.. then it's good enough for me.
I suppose "timbre" could indeed be used as a substitute for my better word "tonality". Tonality (intonation) does not usually refer to pitch or frequency.
Look, Marky... Bob...
...when you guys come into town and kick open the doors of the saloon, we ALL shout 'TIMBRE!'
'Cos we know it'll be a pitched battle - two people in glass houses throwing tones... :-)
Marky.
Do me a favour and type "define: tonality" into Google. Or look up the "tonality" entry on Wikipedia. If you still think the term's specific musical meaning is what you say it is, then I suppose we must be speaking a different language, or have done different music exams or something. Ditto intonation, which a) doesn't mean the same as tonality and b) very much IS concerned with pitch or frequency (specifically the accuracy of those things).
I feel like a tool for getting all "in point of fact" here, but you're claiming specific terms mean things which they simply don't, which I think is unhelpful.
Jesus, here I am, arguing on the internet. What a complete bloody waste of time. If you want to discuss further, let's do it via PM, huh? I'm sure this is getting at least as boring for everyone as it is for us.
Also
Shakespeare never used the word "tonality". Or maybe he did in day-to-day conversation, but certainly never in print.
Long and exceptionally boring conversations..
... are a unique speciality.
Referring you to my previous point - if at any point during Shakespeares lauded career some pedant had questioned his inventive and original use of words, he would have been well advised to reply "lay off, you're killing the flow".
Ahh, I see
If you're just giving words entirely new meanings, please let on. Otherwise it'll only confuse the rest of us. Such subtleties tend to get lost on the web, as I'm sure Bob can attest.
"The guitar has a good tone"
"The tonality of that guitar is very pleasing".
"The tonal quality of that mans voice suggests that a spoiled and pampered child has recently ingested some broken glass. And then been dragged rather crudely face down over a bed of nails"
As far as I'm concerned these are a viable derivatives of the word "tone". And I'm sticking by it.
Sorry to interject boys but.....
"vocals are all in the eye of the beholder" makes me think of bouncing balls.
For a brief period in the 1980s...
Guns N' Roses mattered. And Axl was just the addled, petulant, whiny, egotistical, shrieking nutjob they needed to complete the picture.
Absolutely, Patrick.
They went bad so quickly that often people forget just what a blast of necessity and excitement "Appetite For Destruction" - and to a lesser extent "G'n'R Lies" - really were.
You only have to play me the first four bars or so of "Out Ta Get Me" and the hairs on my arms *still* stand up.
'Appetite For Destruction'...
is a great, great hard rock album. In my drinking days I used to order up a triple JD and Coke or three, stick Night Train on the pub jukebox and play some demon pool. Most excellent it was too.
Yep, pity they couldn't have found ..
.. a petulant, whiny, egotistical, nutjob who could sing. Thats all I'm sayin'
Thom
Yorke? ;)
And the legacy of that brief period
when GNR mattered is, of course, the Slash phenomenon.
If Slash didn't exist, we'd probably have to invent him. For over a decade now, he's been the go-to guy whenever a rawk guitarist is needed. Everywhere you look, there he is, representing the ultimate rock star dude.
He guests on virtually every tribute album and rock documentary going. He shows up at every award ceremony this side of the BBC Folk Music Awards, he has his own signature Gibson Les Paul and he's even found time to churn out an autobiography.
The bloke is everywhere and he's reached this outrageous level of ubiquity not after a lifetime of hard work resulting in a solid and worthy back catalogue, but on the strength of one and a half decent albums with Guns N' Roses, a good haircut and a well-publicised drug habit.
And I'm *still*....
...trying to get his bloody solos right! Great post, mojo - and you're bang on. Hugely influential, not just as a player - although he is that - but like you say: just a sort of Platonic cultural ideal of "rock guitarist". He's less man, more template.
Utter nonsense.
Him and his old band are an absolute joke. I'm sure he's a nice bloke and that but influential? To whom exactly? Beavis and Butthead?
Myself and all my school mates
Loved Guns n' Roses. Appetite for Destruction was album that almost everyone had to have, regardless of what genre of music you were into. I still enjoy listening to the odd song. Great band.
I strongly disagree.
Nearly every guitarist I know, including me, rates Slash incredibly highly. He's the reason a generation of players picked up a guitar, and that's not an exaggeration. You might not like "Appetite...", but it's not a joke. It's a landmark of hard rock. The later albums, not so much.
Well every guitarist I know,
including me, doesn't rate Slash incredibly highly. As for influencing a generation to pick up the guitar can you name one single guitarist who wouldn't have existed without Slash? I know James Dean Bradfield probably would rate him but you can't tell me the Manics wouldn't have existed without the topper rocker. Weirdly I do quite like Appetite but mainly because it is a joke. A cartoon. Like Motley Crue whose first album I prefer.
"To whom exactly? Beavis and Butthead?"
you say that like its a bad thing.....I am Cornholio
You have TP?
For my bunghole?
Are you
threatening me?
Beavis and Butthead
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Edit: too late! Someone else already got in there.
John
Foxx?
I think he lasted more than
two LPs but certainly the big hits were with Majure.
They had the hits, Foxx got the cred.
three, in my book
Ultravox!
Ha, Ha, Ha
Systems of Romance
Good records
Regarding the later singer, he's very stubborn - you can ask him but you can't force Midge Ure
Sugababes?
Every Album?
Inspiral Carpets
And now he's back! Back! BACK!
Heaven 17
Sort of. Ish. In a way. Stretching the definition.
[look I had a double post to get rid of - alright...]
Talking of ver Tap...
My cooker while on holiday. Like a normal hob, but one hotter...
That is brilliant
Do you think they did it on purpose?
Have you noticed the BBC iplayer
also goes BBC One Louder?!
I've wondered for a while how you do that...
screen grab thang, but I've only now been arsed enough to look it up. It's easy! What fun I'm going to have!
Glad others appreciate it
Imagine explaining to non-Massive type wife quite why you are taking a photo of your holiday cooker...
Its for when
the casserole is nearly done but rather than wait another ten minutes, you know what we do? Go one hotter, that's right.
No, don't even point at it....
So why not make '10' hotter?
*uncomfortable pause*
cos these go to 11
At time of writing
this post is on 11 up arrows.
Please, everyone, just leave it!
my posts
go up to two
I want one of those
I too would like to be like normal, but one hotter.
Fairport Convention
Judy Dyble left after the first album, although Iain Matthews (Macdonald) remained, she was replaced by Sandy Denny.
In the days before spellcheck
the press were no doubt pleased.
That's a good enough excuse, Hubo...
...to have some Judy Dyble, I think!
Judy Dyble
After leaving Fairport she was very briefly in Giles, Giles and Fripp, which would evolve into King Crimson.
A demo version of I Talk To The Wind with Judy on vocals was recorded pre-In The Court Of The Crimson King. I think it eventually turned up on The Young Person's Guide To King Crimson retrospective.
From there Judy went on to join Trader Horne, of course, who released only one LP Morning Way, for which Paul Winter, a mate of mine from Sheffield, designed the sleeve.
And then...
...after decades in genteel obscurity Judy sneaked out again into public view with a trio (thus far) of albums, all with contributions from Bob Fripp. Officer Dyble very kindly on something of mine 2 or 3 years ago. A lovelier soul you couldn't wish to meet.
Lou Reed
and Loaded...never really understood what went on there with Doug Yule. I read the book once but I can't remember the reasons for Lou not signing his own songs.
Doug Yule
sang on three songs on Loaded (Who Loves The Sun, New Age and Oh! Sweet Nuthin).
He sang on the the self-titled third album too. He was technically the best singer in the band; I can't imagine Lou Reed singing New Age.
Jefferson Airplane
Their first LP Jefferson Airplane Takes Off featured Signe Anderson on vocals.
Grace Slick was drafted in for the second album Surrealistic Pillow
Jagger!
Sorry, he can't sing worth a fuck.
See also Rubber Plant.
Feel free to crucify me.
It will make no difference.
This thread seems to be wandering into three areas...
... Crap, annoying singers who require ditching, (such as mullet sporting, white flag waving, bellowing bellend preposterous pricks in shades and leather kecks like Bono).
Bands who ditched charismatic singers and died on their arses as a result (like the Lo Fidelity Allstars, who for a bout a year were brilliant, then Wrekked Train left and it all got a bit irrelevant)
And bands who leapt up a gear after losing the singer (like AC/DC although that certainly wasn't quite planned)
SO WHAT IS IT FOLKS? I'M ALL MIXED UP
Cosmic Rough Riders
Apart from a name sounding like a gay condom brand I loved the CRRs. Having achieved real momentum with "Enjoy the melodic sunshine" the lead singer disappeared to solo career oblivion and shortly later so did the remains of the band. Real shame.
Three more from them
this weekend?
Floy Joy
A couple of times, it seems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floy_Joy_(band)
The Caroll Thompson era had some really nice songs...and "Weak in the Presence..." was a cool single, too, after she'd gone.
Bill Nelson did it the other way
After the first Be Bop Deluxe album, he sacked the rest of the band, and a completely new line-up appeared on the next, and all subsequent Be Bop albums.
And yet apparently...
...according to his blog, for decades the label were paying royalties for ALL BBD albums to those guys from the first album. At least, that was one of many tales they told him when he tried to get to the bottom of his missing royalties.
The good way to make money in music
seems to be to get paid off after the early years, before the big bills come in with the big advances. Isnt that what happened with Bros as well?
Led Zep lose Percy
REM lose Stipe (gain Zevon)
Donovan and Jeff Beck Group
sans Rod