Entertainment For Lively Minds
Lily Allen
Posted by Leedsboy on 6 January 2009 - 11:36am.
Was it just me or did anyone get a whiff of spoilt petulance from Miss Allen's diatribe about the 'new' EMI? Imagine having to deliver product to a company that sells err products? Imagine having to stay in a 2 star hotel in Paris (and I bet it wasn't a 2 star hotel either). Imagine being part of a business strategy that is thought of in quarters. I bet this stuff didn't bother her when she signed and wanted their help.
Kids today eh?
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Slagging off your record company is such a tired idea
In this day and age there is nothing to stop you making your own records. Then you can package them, promote them, distribute them and then chase up the money for them ALL ON YOUR OWN.
If artists are so inclined to blame them for everything that's wrong with their world I'm amazed they don't just get on with it themselves and show them how it's done.
Who would they blame
Of course they can get on and do it themselves but then who are they going to blame when it all goes horribly wrong? They'd have to blame themselves but that can't be right surely!
yawn
Not sure when I went off her it could have been when as someone who went to public school she started singing about the Police being the “filth” or maybe it was complaining about being judged on her looks and then having to walk past a 2 story clothes shop window display of her on Oxford st on the way to work each day. Or maybe it was her grim tv programme. Or or
Personally, I went off her...
as soon as I heard one of her records. Not my thing at all.
Why shouldn't those of us...
...who went to public school call the police 'the filth' if we deem it appropriate?
Did it stop
Joe Strummer?
Z
I
N
G
!
Complete control
Of course Joe slagged off his label too - rather wonderfully.
I think the issue isn't
the validity of the opinion but rather the adoption of language to pass herself of as cool and street. Unless, of course, she is a "method" singer and therefore doesn't come out of character.
i like that idea
of LA being a "method" singer. But I'd hesitate to term her a singer at all - she sounds to me like the AutoTune and ProTools operatives have been working overtime on an idiomatic sow's ear.
because it's lazy and
disingenuous. One suspects they wouldn't be "fith" when she rings them up when someone breaks in and nicks her gold discs or celebrity sex tape....
Is it somehow OK to use the term 'rozzer'
or 'copper', or 'boys in blue' or 'old Bill'?
Is the use of the term 'filth' in particular to be considered 'lazy' or 'disingenous' because it has some extra special working-class cred of its own, or are these more friendly slang forms certified as OK for toffs to use?
Pig
Off
Only jesting, of course.
of course the choice of words is
important the "filth" is entirely deregatory where as the others have elements of friendliness and affection. And in the context of the song "cops took away my licence" works just as well.
So, that being the case,
why do you suggest that the use of 'filth' is the preserve solely of those who weren't educated in a certain, specific type of school?
I would suggest that
those who have had the best society has had to offer should choose their words carefully and that the use of "filth" was lazy and childish .
Last time I heard the phrase "Filth" being used....
...to describe the Police was either in an episode of Minder with Dave at The Winchester Bar or by Rick in The Young Ones....
I honestly thought that youngsters today had new terminology for our Boys in Blue.
What slang term for the police...
...would you find acceptable from someone with a public school education then?
Rozzers? The boys in blue? The Peelers? I don't see that any of them are more or less 'lazy and childish' than 'the filth' which, of course, has a long and distinguished literary presence.
Personally
and I'm not a Policeman, I would prefer Dibble, Rozzer, Plod, Boys in Blue or Peeler to being called Filth everytime. I can't think of a less acceptable term for the police that isn't a full blown swear word. But that's just symantec old me.
Shirley
she means 'Mr Babylon', anyway?
Whats wrong with
"The boys in blue"
Mind you, were any of them in the Police, even if Stewart Copeland had an expensive education, o this gets very muddling.
McFly went to my school. Clearly aeons after me.
Did I dream this..
or has she beeen mentioned in despatches as a new "high profile" female assistant to the new, decidedly "low profile" Doctor Who?
I dunno
I've worked for two companies that have been taken over. In both cases the change in circumstances led to me enjoying the job significantly less, and certainly feeling less loyal towards the company, and in both cases I eventually left as a result. Why should it be different for a pop star?
Not sure why she's complaining about the 8th Arrondissement, mind. Isn't that the posh bit, with the Place de la Concorde etc?
Point accepted
but I do always feel that the previous management, who either took the money and ran or mismanaged the company until it needed help, get a hallowed place in the historical view of things.
I just think it gets silly when the creative always rails against the business side once there has been sufficient financial reward to make the creative feel secure enough to take umbrage.
Makes a change
They usually just blame the accountants. Like what I am/was.
Let's see what the credit crunch does to the sales of her next LP (or whatever they are called now).
Gay Paris
I thought it was odd she was complaining about the 8th arrondisement. It's the area with the Champs-Élysées and it's where the President lives, so it's hardly [insert name of not very nice area of big city here] is it?
But what if she has a point?
I have yet to meet anyone, creative or otherwise, who has any involvement with EMI and has anything good to say about the new regime.
Lily A clearly has issues with stopping her gob running away with her, but I think that a degree of archness in her statements are often overlooked - and in any case I would rather read an interview with her than Chris Martin, Brandon "Bloody" Flowers or Bapface From Keane's latest mewlings any day of the week. I don't care who her dad is or what school she went to, she's a proper pop star "IMHO".
But the new regime
are trying to make the business work. They may be making the wrong decisions but they are trying to keep the business trading profitably. The old model, whilst more fun for pop stars, seems to have been given the death knell by most that have looked at it. The only person I know who worked at EMI left 3 years ago as the writing was on the wall then.
Absolutely....
An interview with Lily Allen is far better than the "by numbers" interviews phoned in by Bono and the gang. Incidentally, whilst dreading the impending media onslaught for U2's upcoming military campaign for the new album, I bet you can dig out a Bono interview from the promotion of "All You Can't Leave Behind or How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb" - replace the relevant album title with the new one and you wouldn't be able to slip a cigarette paper between them.
Pay herself?
She could always pay for her accom, flowers etc herself. She isn't employed by them, and in the good old days such fripperies were charged bck to the artist anyway. Having lived in Paris I can reassure the Massive that the 8th is perfectly nice, as is the vast majority of Paris. Getting exposure on a plate by having famous parents is a bigger leg up than most wannabes get - she should count her blessings.
how true
Surely the main (only?) reason that La Allen attracted anyone's attention at all in the first place was the leg-up offered by her (moderately) famous parents? One imagines it was not remotely connected with actual talent or ability (or likeability, or.... I could go on....)
What might be of more concern with regard to EMI is their current intention to close the fabled Olympic Studios in Barnes (check the interweb for details) because of course the place runs at a deficit. Never mind the impending loss of an irreplaceable studio or any of that guff. Gotta pay for dreck like Lily Allen's expenses bills somehow.
Fair point - well made.
I hadn't linked her complaints of penny pinching on things like hotels, travel and the like, with the fact that none of these things are directly related to the creative process of recording an album in the way a studio is.
Have you ever witnessed
a bus full of schoolkids spontaneously singing 'Smile'? I have, and I doubt very much any of them know or care who her parents are. They like the song. The music industry is GLUTTED with kids of the rich and famous who are unable to get even a flicker of interest from the public, often despite serious amounts of free publicity - Victoria Aitken springs to mind. If it was as easy as you say, all of them would be famous. But they're not, while Lily is. Ergo, her songs and personality must have had some effect on her success, no?
While we're here...
My theory on Lily Allen is that a lot of people who probably consider themselves to be "serious" music fans liked her album when it first came out, but you could probably draw a chart demonstrating how this ardour faded as her subsequent tabloid presence grew. I'm not accusing anyone here of that - disliking her music is perfectly valid, if you're judging it by what's contained within the grooves - but I don't see why anyone's opinion of Alright, Still (I still think it's a brilliant album) should be affected by whose daughter she is or how many times she punches a photographer or slags off her record company.
So I'll be buying the new record.
so fraser
you've never gone off someone because they have become noisome? That their personailty or behaviour has soured their music. It happens with people we know personally ie the thing we liked in the first place is out done by the way they eat with their mouths open or are always late etc so why not with pop stars or in Lilly Allen's case light entertainers.
Put it this way
I'm sure it happened a fair bit when I was younger, but these days I try really hard not to let it affect my liking of their work, because I really don't believe it should. If I disregarded a musician every time they did something disagreeable I suspect there'd be nothing left to enjoy.
I don't have to try too hard to manage this
By simply avoiding the kind of places where I might discover what potentially annoying pop stars are up to - most magazines, TV channels and radio stations - I am able to carry on enjoying their music, as in the case of the charming Lily, without being exposed to all the celebrity kerfuffle that accompanies them. It strikes me that if someone chooses to immerse themselves in the world of showbiz news, Heat magazine and others of that ilk then they only have themselves to blame when they are outraged, annoyed, wearied by what they find. It's hardly the artists fault.
It's not always
the artist's fault. However, it often is.
But shirley
we don't have to come up with a blanket rule?
I remember when someone (Backwards7?) got onto the letters page with his (admittedly entertaining) rant on a similar subject, caused when we were debating on here whether to listen to Gary Glitter records. It was characterised as 'If we stop listening to music everytime a musician does something we object to, we won't listen to anything,' and I thought it was a facile argument, not least because it assumed all objections had equal weight.
Taking the same emotive example of GG, if I am unable to forget the fact that Gary Glitter is a kiddy-fiddler when I hear one of his songs, that's not saying there is anything inherantly paedophile-friendly about his music, or that Rock and Roll (part 2) is any less of a good pop song. It's simply an inevitable association that removes any pleasure I might have at listening to the song. Trying to pretend that GG's proclivites do not colour how I percieve his music is not so much misguided as it is impossible.
Take Pete Doherty or Amy Winehouse and I'm willing to bet that the reason people have a dislike of them is less the fact that they take implausible quantities of substances than the fact that for extended periods of time, their antics were shoved in our faces and that for anyone with any interest in music, it was bloody difficult to avoid, even if you wanted to; as the knee-jerk press went into apoplectic meltdown, sections of the music press added oxygen to the fire by making messianic claims for them both and they themselves appeared too out of it to know when they were being exploited to sell papers. It was tawdry and it did inevitably colour how we percieve the music.
If one does find Lily Allen particularly tiresome because of her press antics, why *shouldn't* it colour one's appreciation of their art?
Otherwise, we're trying to be objective about the subjective, and that has to be impossible, doesn't it?
Yet the praise and glee with which
every step and slur of Keith Richards or Shane MacGowan is greeted somehow flies in the face of the drugs spoiling Wino and Doherty's outpourings to the discerning listener?
Shane MacGowan
I don't have any glee on Shane MacGowan's slide into substance/alchohol abuse. I have a view that his best work was his earlier work and it was mighty. He may well have been drinking heavily at the time but alcohol abuse has a terrible way of catching up with interest over time which would explain the fall off on quality. Although I do know one or two early Pogues fans that thought he was great because he was a drunk so the point is perhaps valid.
Don't have nearly as much time for Mr Richards but neither praise nor glee from me regarding his off stage antics.
I agree but tell that to the ("rock") press
who, by and large sanctify and mythologise their prodigious erstwhile intakes, whilst wilfully winkling out any hint that the show is still going up the nose, in the vein or down the hatch. (I accept that each of them are not a little aware of the "good" publicity this may give them, Mr R being certainly unaverse to sending out mischevious suggestions as to his current practices)
All part of our vaingloriously* mixed messaging around particularly booze, but increasingly so the other standard "rockstar" addictions and afflictions. (See under Allan Unshods "Have I told you the one about etc etc etc)
*Now thats a word I would like to hear in song, sod the rhyme and meter)
Vainglorious
Have looked it up. I think Bono could use it in a song without irony.
Is now my word of the day and will use it in a meeting later this afternoon.
Heart
have a song with said title, and while one doesn't wish to disparage the Wilson sisters, they're not lauded for their great lyrical skills.
If either of them achieved
If either of them achieved Doherty/Winehouse-level press saturation for a period of months on end as a direct consequence of their hobbies, I'm sure we'd be as hacked off with them too.
Had the press been like it is now 20 years ago, I expect we would have been.
Glitter
My mind simply doesn't work like that. Rock and Roll still makes me want to leap around the room, and I can listen to Leadbelly without feeling I'm endorsing murder. Hell, I still think Everyone's Gone To The Moon by Jonathan King is a brilliant record, although he's otherwise completely odious. I don't expect everyone to feel the same way, but the blanket rule does seem to work for me.
I'm with Fraser M on this
and I accept that not everyone is the same. But I cannot listen to GG without thinking about his crimes and it seriously detracts all pleasure from listening to what, previously, I used to love.
Now...
in terms of whether it affected whether I'd want to listen to the music, I'd not give much thought to the Lead Belly murder (which is not to suggest said murder was in any way excusable).
I would imagine most of us would be more revolted by sexual crimes, plus GG & JK's victims are still alive and presumably suffering as a consequence, especially since said crimes were against minors and were committed knowingly.
More confusingly and less defendably, it transpires that without meaning to, I am also arguing that being irritating in the press is worse than murder...
However, we're talking about whether we as individuals feel like listening to a record, rather than whether Lily Allen should be shot in the face for being inane and Lead Belly exonerated for murder!
Time
is one aspect - the further back the crime, the less resonance I think it has. I also think that GG and JK's crimes resonate more because people can relate them to their own children or young relatives.
None of this is simple - its why OAP's being mugged is more unsettling than a 25 year old man being mugged. The crime is the same but somehow not.
Your last paragraph - I reckon could be fixed with a time machine. Organise a Lily Allen and Lead Belly duet and I suspect he would be sufficiently irritated to add to his tally.
And then there's the tired old whinge
about artists being 'faceless' and 'bland'. What is it we really want from our music-makers?
In a nutshell
good music and leave kids alone. Don't kill anyone. Stop moaning about how tough your life is when there are plenty of people that would readily swap. That ought to shut me up.
I still like the singles and the Kaiser Chiefs cover.
not enough to have bought them but they are great pop songs. The kind that when they come on on the radio, I'll turn them up.
But my original point is that she wasn't (openly?) obnoxious until she achieved a fair level of success. Which just seems to be a shame.
Spoilt Victorian Child
The opening part of the interview is telling, where the comment is that she's at the age where she's either surrounded by people who hold the same opinions as her, or where older and more cynical people don't want to destroy her innocence.
So I took her comments about EMI to be those of someone who hasn't yet realised that businesses, in whatever industry, are there to make a profit and couldn't care less about the "artistic merit" of their performers. The old management at EMI were obviously crap at making money, only time will tell if the new owners are any better.
Please, please tell me
that this "I get a two star place in the 8th on my own. I'm like 'do you want me to get raped and killed?'" was said in jest or with at least a hint of irony!
I don't know if I'm more annoyed by her spoilt stupidity or the fact that she said "I'm like..."
I suspect neither
irony or jest were her intention - more like a petulant strop a la Violet Elizabeth Bott.
The estimable Mark Lamarr (for it was he) caused hilarity in my office by describing Lily Allen's recorded output as "Only useful as lagging" which is about right IMO.
Nice one
I'm surprised that some agent hasn't come up with the idea of Lily and Peaches Geldof recording a duet, The Petulant Strops would be a great name for their backing band!
I expect Lily will appear on the Word blog and write a tearful late night diatribe against us old cynics. Either that or she will unleash the thousands of My Space "friends" to hunt us down!
Oh well, in that case, let's have another laugh at this...
Lily Allen's greatest hits vol. 1
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/lostinshowbiz/2008/oct/29/lilyall...
You couldn't make that up
could you! Absolute classic.
in defense
Pretty much everyone on EMI is upset with Terra Firma's management of the enterprise, and seem to be indicating a desire to get out of their deals. LA is just one of many.
However... I have some sympathy with Guy Hands. Why on earth should he run the company at a loss? If EMI cannot make money then it is not really a going concern, and in that state is not much use to a venture capitalist such as he is. Seems to me that people view EMI as part of the British establishment and therefore beyond profit and loss - probably just because they had The Beatles on their books. As a label it has been stuck in the 60s and 70s for way too long and has signed almost nothing with any true spark, and certainly with very little longevity since then.
Except...
...aren't the biggest band in Britain and one of the tiny handful that really sell records overseas on EMI?
absolutely
Coldplay are probably worth more than EMI as a going concern... if they left EMI, all that remains is the back catalogue.
Ermm...
they signed Radiohead, Blur... both have plenty of 'spark' and have been going for yonks.
Radiohead
They fitted the vacancy left by Pink Floyd, I think. EMI could only think in terms of their previous successes.
Well
EMI did all right when there was money to be made in music. No one knows how to make profit now though do they? Having a reputation for pissing off your possibly prima donna hit makers doesn't seem too clever a way to get hot new signings. Radiohead have left and then had US number one album. Others wish to go I believe, somethings wrong there. It takes more than cutting of costs.
I'm not so sure.
Is there not a parallel with Prem footballers who engineer reasons for wanting to go because the either club lacks ambition, doesn't feel right or my favourite manager has gone? The reality is that established, global bands have often left a label to sign a new deal. The complication today is that there are other distribution means other than the majors and so there is extra temptation. And frankly, if you can do it yourself, you'd be mad not to.
And whilst it takes more than cutting costs (having a business plan and a strategy sound sensible as well) you can't do anything if you can't pay the bills. Sadly, as a Leeds fan, they prove the point handsomely. Talent goes where the money is not where they feel loved.
Other labels are not in the state EMI is.
Unfortunately we can't really go into the extent of Terra Firma's effect on the company without venturing into severely libellous territory, though. Yes it was in a parlous state before, but they appear to have opened up a few new wounds rather than stemming the bleeding.
What is needed
Is an in-depth interview with Guy Hands. A grilling at the hands of Mark Hepworth or David Ellen. Probing questions about back catalogue, The Beatles, new signings and what the Grateful Dead are doing right now...
Good idea Beany
I don't know enough of whats really happening but my view is coloured from my work experience (which, sadly, has nothing to do with the music biz). I presume Joe has more insight so will bow to his knowledge of the reality of the Terra Firma situation. But it would make for a very interesting article.
Lordy what a tizzy...
I rather like Lily Allen. She's gobby and funny and kind of reminds me of my little sister. Plus she's not the only EMI artist who has been critical of Terra Firma, Damon Albarn wasn't kind on them in last month's Word. The thing is he's a 40 year old man. He's no doubt said some dumb things in the past and he's learned his lesson; his criticisms were as a result, more constructive than Lily's but you'd expect that.
If Lily is still a popstar when she's Damon's age no doubt she'll be a bit wiser. But she's way more interesting, sparky, funny and (I think) better than all of your worthy but dull Duffy's, Adele's and Marling's of this world. Music these days would be a lot duller without her.
Everything on this board touches on class issues eventually
Why is that?
Hear hear!
To the above.
Lily Allen is gobby, opinionated, frequently misguided, petulant, spoiled and rarely boring. In other words, she is a proper pop star. If Elton John had made exactly the same comments it wouldn't have drawn the merest whiff of attention.
More power to the Allen. I think she's fighting with Katy Perry at the moment, according to the last `entertainment bulletin' I heard on the office radio. Hopefully she'll get laid into the X-Factor winner next.
Sorry!!
`Hear hear' was not to Five-Centres post (although I don't necessarily disagree with that one), but the one above it. He sneaked in before me.
It seems someone at The Sun,
presumably their "MORAL OUTRAGE!" correspondent, reads The Word:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article2104719.ece
Nah
Mark Ellen moonlights. That's why he rarely posts here - he runs the Sun website.
I know it's always nice publicity for a magazine when their...
...stories get nicked. But that truly is scraping the barrel. Could it be that Gordon Smart is an even bigger idiot (and destined for even bigger things) than Piers Morgan?
SPOILT
Having lived in the privileged cocoon of a middle class acting family that borders on the realms of eccentric; it is quite easy to understand why 'Tabloid' Lily opens her mouth to criticise. Having left the realms of teen pop queen and all associated with that position, she has tried the high profile love affair with a 'Pop star' - a bloke! That ended sadly in a well documented miscarriage or was it suffering for her art?
Now she has moved onto a family friend of supposed wealth old enough to be her father. A move that probably highlights the end of her pop career and a photoshoot with OK.
Why is it that these spoilt brats of a certain type of showbusiness family get the opportunity in the first place? - Probably because 'Daddy or Mummy' knows someone at EMI.
Hence the only word to explain Lily Allen - SPOILT!
Two Stars Can't Be Great . . .
. . . but what on earth is wrong with the 8th, or L'Huitieme Arondissement, as I never called it when I lived there back in the day. In terms of the Parisian poshness league, I'd rank it second only to the 16th, with maybe the 17th fighting it out for third place. Think Mayfair, and you're on the right track. Poor Lily should try a hostel out in the 18th or even the 12th, and she'd know all about it. Apart from this schoolgirl error, I think she's great.
On face value...
I don't like Lily Allen. I find her music soulless and her attitude deplorably self-pitying. But in a spirit of New Year goodwill, I thought I'd read her interview with an open mind (normally I'd skip straight past it), and assume my snap judgement was incorrect. She then went on to prove why snap judgements are so often right.
So thank you Word for publishing the interview. It's good to have your preconceptions challenged... and then roundly justified.
I suspect Ms Allen wanted to convey 'attitude', which doesn't wash with me, Lily, love. Either that, or she is genuinely hacked off with being given an all-expenses paid trip to Paris, in which case she should be raising it with her employers, hopefully with the same response any of us would get if we tried the same thing at our workplace - a P45.
Lily has been inspired to
Lily has been inspired to write a song about by the interview for her new album:
Money Drugs and Trousers
I was feeling despondent
In the 8th Arrondissment
They didn't send me no champagne
All I got was real e mail pain
Money drugs and trousers,
When will they allow us
Money drugs and trousers
It’s not really fair
Thought I had my feet on terra firma
It seems that I am still a learner
But if I organise a sports day
Then knife crime will go away
I told Elton to fuck off
And I told Jagger to fuck off
But I tell everyone to fuck off
All day long
Hinduism is so cool
But Christians they do not rule
If Muslims were on Songs of Praise
That is something I would praise
I am really famous
But they never pay us
I've sold millions of records
But I still shop in Tescos.
That is so, like
oh my god, cool like innit.
LILY LATEST
Evidently Lily has splilt from her millionaire boyfriend because the age difference was effecting her family and friends, according to tabloid reports.
It is also alleged that she would have found it difficult to continue the relationship owing to touring and plugging her new album.
Men of the World beware.....
Regarding the police...
...she could have referred to them as 'The State Repressive Apparatus' a term coined by the late (and possibly deranged) Louis Althusser. Something like;
bofe me and me mate was
done by the state repressive apparatus
just for nickin' some potatoes
and chuckin 'em at posh waiters
or some such twaddle. Why not a word competition to see who can pen a Lily Allen lyric.
Lily Allen - After the Telegraph
This weekends Telegraph mag had a fairly long Lily Allen interview. I read it with interest and have to say she came across really well - bright, witty, slightly confused (but in a smart way) and not at all cross with her lot as a pop star. Not sure of the Word interview was an off day - I hope so.
Maybe she tries to give an interview...
...that she *thinks* will appeal to the audience of the publication.
That thought occurred to me
If so bit of a shame. Or maybe she didn't get the Word magazine readership. Anyway I liked her more after the Telegraph interview than the Word one.
Link to it is here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/4223221/Llly-Allen-uncertain-sm...
Add an interview on Front Row
Don't know how many people are still reading this thread, but anyway, she was on Front Row yesterday, and once again I was quite taken with her. I thought she came across fine in Word - and I speak as someone who doesn't think much of her music, especially her wafer-thin singing voice. And the Telegraph piece is a very detailed portrait of someone who is only too aware of her own weaknesses.
Some more songs please Lil
Yes the girl does come across as a lot more interesting than many "stars" of music biz 21st century, mainly in a "Phew I'm glad She's Not My Daughter" kind of way if you're an old fart such as I, fair play to her. And I must say despite the silly singing accent that must have taken a showbiz kid ages to develop (and it caught on! And, with Kate Nash, got worse!) I quite like her songs, pity that when I log on to a favoured download and streaming site there's only about six different ones, with various and confusing dopey remixes and with more or less effing and blinding. Cahmon gal, get ter work aht vere gorblimey. Send for der Sherrif of effing Nottingham, git him to talk to er.
Poor Lily
I read an interview once when she was talking about territories and units sold and that did it for me.
Her dad is Keith Allen though!
Keith Allen
The best thing that happened to Keith Allen was being sent to Borstal for nicking £43 from a chap in Stackridge. True. From his own gob in Q, nicked from a waiting room when I read that.