Entertainment For Lively Minds
Judging a man's entire body of music from only hearing two songs
"If you're going to judge a man's entire body of music from only hearing two songs, then quite frankly, your opinion has no worth." - Zanti Misfit (Nilsson thread)
It's not that I disagree with the principle, but I suspect that we all routinely judge artists on a very few songs. Indeed, I'm reasonably sure that most of us have dismissed artists without ever hearing a note but because it is obvious that they are part of a particular musical genre.
I intensely dislike 'Without You' because I had a weekend job during my sixth form years where it was played on a constant loop and I wouldn't comment on a Nilssson thread because I don't know enough about the man and I know my opinion is worthless, but that exerience was enough to put me off.
My potential loss, obviously, but given how much music is out there, don't we all make similarly snap judgements all the time?
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Of course we do.
I hate Razorlight because of In The Morning and what I've read about Johnny Borrell. Is my opinion informed? Of course not, but not all of my opinions are. Some are knee jerk prejudice based on very little evidence. Which I will cheerfully air on this here forum.
Mind you I despise U2 because in spite of hating them I seem to know most of their back catalogue. I guess that's the thin line between "dislike" and "actually hate" though...
I've heard 'You're Beautiful'...
That is quite enough.
Could be a big mistake..
Imagine if your sole knowledge of the Dame was the "Laughing Gnome" and er...."Kooks" ?.
I take your point...
but The Laughing Gnome is great!
Erm.....
.....I adore 'The Laughing Gnome' and 'Kooks'.
'Young Americans' and 'Fame' I can't stand.
Kooks?
That's a lovely song!
I know, I admit I quite like it too. Why I said "....er"
But best I could come up with at the time.
I could also have said "anything he's written since 1994" or "any Tin Machine" track, but I fancy Beckenham Dave has a Kate Bush like fanbase on here, so didny want to start another schism.
In today's world
with infinite choice in music - there's not often enough time to dismiss someone based on two songs. At best they might get 30 seconds, at worst their name might be enough to put you off.
I was about to say
I can judge someone's entire body of world without really hearing them at all. Just one look can do. I'm superficial like that.
I suppose you could if your judging their 2 "best" songs"
But thats always subjective,
My 2 x for the Dame are "Panic in Detroit" and "Young Americans"
Probably not everyones cup of tea.
You could also ask
... why a band who has left you cold after two tracks should get a third chance. Life is short and there's a lot of other music.
There is the chance that's you'll just hear Kooks and The Laughing Gnome, as BernkastelCues says. In principle at least, and for some artists. But not with someone of the stature of Bowie. Dozens of artists have clawed themseves into a prominence which will give you more than two chances, whatever your first impression. Is there anyone in the world who has only heard two songs by Dylan, or the Doors, or Westlife, or Bob Marley? You know whether you like them or not.
Harry Nilsson hasn't reached that level, though I like some of his stuff a lot. Ditto The Boomtown Rats, or a few minor Irish bands I carry a lone torch for.
Time being finite, you have to let consensus and posterity pick up some of the slack. If they've discounted Kissing The Pink, and you haven't heard the White Album, which are you going to start with?
I really couldn't say
for certain that I've heard anything by Westlife
Prepare
for a deluge of envy.
Me too
No idea what they sound like, though I can guess.
I think
its quite easy to dislike an artist after only hearing a limited amount of material, if you dont like the vocal tone. No amount of good song writing can save Bono from my boot.
That's true but..
I hated Elvis Costello when I first heard him. Fortunately I eventually got used to him (due entirely on the strength of the songs on the first album). These days I think he would consider me a major contributor to his pension fund. Mind you, using Bono as your example does strengthen your point somewhat.
Research shows that we form an opinion
about other people within 30 seconds of meeting them. Giving an act the time to do 2 songs might therefore be seen as patience incarnate.
My take on this: sure, I form opinions quite quickly but I like to think I simply say "I don't like the little I've heard by (insert name here)." If they do something in future that I like, or someone whose opinion I value says I should give it a listen, I'll listen and like or dislike it for what it is. I won't dismiss it simply because of the name of the performer.
Tintern Abbey
They're a group you can completely judge via two songs.
Very subtle one there Ranger!
...they're the supposed pop-psych legends who released precisely two songs, A and B side of a single, right?
So tell us: is it/are they are good?
Colin:
they're both great.
If a mate gives you the latest CD of his band...
...how many of you do anything other than skip through or play it through only once? I'd wager most of us do that. I bet the Word staff do that with all new material from unknown artists.
That's life, Esther.
Just the one song
- by Guy Chambers - Angels. It has to be the nearest thing to Without You for me in the Songs You Love To Hate list, no matter how many songs he writes this is the one I can't forgive him for. That and the fact he claims to have written over 1000 songs yet only 21 appear to have been 'hits'.
Guy Chambers
His band The Lemon Trees were splendid and if I'd only heard two songs by them I'd be investigating his work further. I imagine Angels, however, is the one that bought him his lovely studio.
Jeff Beck
I was put off Mr Beck for years on the strength of just one song - Hi Ho Silver Lining.
Only thing he's done
I like.
I've never listened to Jeff Beck
for that very reason. Am I missing something?
In a word
Yes
May I suggest that you buy...
a copy of Blow by Blow posthaste.
Making a judgement that someone
Making a judgement that someone isn't your cup of tea after hearing a couple of songs is one thing. Something we all do all the time.
Grandly declaring that a well-liked and well respected singer/writer is "a waste of space" because you don't happen to like the two songs you've heard is quite another.
I agree
They are indeed two different, and totally separate, things.
Paolo Nutini
One Later with Jools appearance was enough to convince me that he is the musical equivalent of fingers-down-a-blackboard.
I would suggest...
he is more of a singing Frappuccino.
But I liked that 10\10
thing of his before I knew it was him such was its sneaky approximation of skilful ska n ting. Hate everything else thou.
Of all the bands in all the world...
In a documentary on Swedish electro group Covenant, one of the band makes a touching speech about their fans along the lines of: "There are countless thousands of bands in the world, and we're so moved by the fact that out of all of them, somebody chose to spend some of their time listening to us."
Quite. For me, sometimes just a single line, or a chorus, is enough to decide that I don't need to hear any more by that artist when I could be listening to somebody better.
Adele, for example, seems to be doing very well, but I'm not bothered about her new stuff simply on the basis that I detested Chasing Pavements (even the name makes me feel slightly ill for some irrational reason).
Blind, unthinking intolerance that might well mean I'm missing out on great music? Certainly. But I'm fine with that. After all, to me my musical taste is perfect. As is everybody else's to them.
Blimey!
I feel quite honoured to have a blog centered round a quote of mine.
I sounded a tad pompous but it was the fact that the OP came from such an ill informed standpoint that niggled me. I don't like 'Hey Jude' or 'Let It Be' very much but if they were the only things I had ever heard by The Beatles, I wouldn't start a thread after watching a poor Fabs documentary to put the boot in.
I have a bee in my bonnet about slaughtering sacred cows with nothing to back it up.
The irony is, I can't stand 'Without You' too and when I was a snobby new wave teenager presumed this Nillson Shmillsson hippy bloke would be just boring beard music. I'm glad I explored further.
Same goes for The Beatles, Bowie, Syd Barratt, Scott Walker, Nick Drake, Zappa, The Beach Boys, Prog rock, Hip-hop, dance music, jazz, electronica, oh loads of stuff I've been judgmental about in the past.
I can't see me having an epiphany with The Black Eyed Peas anytime soon though.
Do you need to have a credible reason to dislike somebody?
I'm perfectly happy disliking whole swathes of music (and probably overlooking some absolutely divine songs by incredibly talented sacred cows) simply because I loathe the few examples I have heard.
Take jazz: it will forever be condemned to my Room 101 just because I find much of it unlistenable drivel. And I'm happy to say that Miles Davis, to pick a name, is dreadful, as far as I'm concerned. I don't have to justify such an attack on a sacred cow, or single out trad jazz over bebop, etc. Just as I don't have to make other people listen to my favourite music. And there is no need for anyone to list examples of jazz that will change my mind, or point out how wrong I am, as for me life is just too short. I gave it a chance, I hated it, I've moved on to music I do like.
On the other hands, my wife is happy to condemn the music of some of the groups I adore as 'a lot of pots and pans being bashed around'. She simply won't be told that it is beautiful, actually, thank you very much.
The fact that music can create such a range of opinions (some passionate and reasoned, some based on nothing more than the artist's name, or appearance, or something stupid they said/did) is one of the things that makes it so wonderful.
'You gave it a chance'
Is the key thing here.
If I started a blog on a messageboard that 'debates music' entitled 'Jazz is drivel' based only on hearing Take 5 by The Dave Brubeck Quartet and something by George Melly that I once heard on Pebble Mill At One, then I deserve to be slightly taken to task, surely?
Ach, "It's all a load of bollocks" as The Specials once sang.
personally
i am not beyond being blinkered enough to dismiss bands on the basis of their haircuts, facial foliage and clothes..
i have found it can save me so much time..
once again..this works for me and is not a communique to be followed
For what its worth, I watched the Nilsson doco this morning.
and was so taken by the music of the man on offer I've just bought his "Greatest Hits" as a sampler.
My previous exposure to him was as the guy who sang "Without You" and Everybodies Talkin"/John Lennons boorish drinking buddy.
Listening to songs like "1941" and "Good Old Desk" has changed my perception of him a tad (well, a bit more than a tad, maybe a exponentad)
So perhaps not two songs, but smippets of three or four.