Jeff Buckley
Lucas Hare's "Wetrock" comment and mention of "Jeff Buckley's legacy" in the "Bands It's Fashionable To Hate" thread got me to thinking...
...would anyone have given two hoots for Jeff Buckley if he wasn't really really goodlooking?
I'm serious - ugly people aren't really allowed that degree of broodingness, are they?
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Not that many people did give a hoot...
while he was alive. His Nick Drake-like ubiquity as a 'name to drop' really came to be after his death.
I believe his talent would have come across even if he'd looked like one of the Chuckle Brothers, but being a very handsome chap obviously did him no harm...
I can still hear the sound of swooning from the crowd at the Shepherds Bush Empire...
I like some of his stuff
A friend played me Grace when it came out, and I particularly loved Hallelujah and Lilac Wine. Still do. I'm sure his appeal increased because of his (a) looks and (b) death, but you could say the same about Nick Drake or Gram Parsons. But the guy certainly had talent. And it's not his fault that he influenced those that came after him.
I remember Mojo championing his music a great deal while he was still alive.
Joe, you've got a very big point there
If Elliott Smith had been photogenic he would have been all over the covers of all kinds of magazines by now. What is that line about living fast, dying young and leaving a good-looking corpse?
All the most venerated dead rock stars were good looking.
but most rock stars
dead or alive were/are good looking.
Really?
Macca? Jagger? BONO?
Macca?!!!
In his youth, Macca was incredibly handsome!
I think X-million people would probably back me up on that!
Some would say he was slightly odd-looking
but made attractive by the stance, style and confidence that being a rockstar bring.
But either way my point stands - lots of rockstars are very much, erm, "differently attractive".
So Jagger not a sex symbol now?
Again
he wasn't exactly conventionally good looking, particularly for his time. It's what he made of it that counts.
I think he changed the
I think he changed the convention of what was good looking at that time. Just because he didn't look like Cary Grant.
Still I can't believe I'm arguing the toss about whether a man is good looking or not.
We've all got friends...
...who have/had the Jagger effect with the opposite sex when they were not conventionally handsome. I'm not sure Bono is a sex-symbol is he?
Will anyone ever
reappraise Grebo...
We dig Marvel and DC
We dig Run DMC, we dig Renegade Soundwave and AC/DC!
Erm....no....
Poppies ahead of their time!
Although by the time they got really good, they had left whatever you might choose to call "grebo" way behind.
"Ich Bin Ein Auslander" is still one of my favourite singles. In fact, I'm going to go and listen to it now.
Elliot Smith is the perfect comparison, actually
- just as troubled a young man, but an infinitely better songwriter and even - I think - a more soulful (as opposed to 'tortured' and technical) singer than Jeff B. However he was a) not so hawt and b) not so desperately keen to be The Tortured Artist As A Young Man.
I'm a bloke
and to be honest I couldn't give a fig about his looks. Grace is a very good album and his voice is exceptional. When the song quality matched his voice, the tracks were out of this world. His early death has more to do with his legacy than his looks but it's still based on his music mostly I reckon.
Not at all...
Buckley had the voice of an angel and was a stunning live presence. I saw him at The Garage and it was, without a doubt, the single best gig I've ever attended. His looks certainly didn't hold him back and certainly sold books/posters but I don't think it got in the way of the music
His early death did, of course, cause his recorded legacy to be short and perfect - no dodgy third studio album, no tedious collaborations, no appearances on charridy records - just one and a bit albums.
I was there
And can vouch for that. I remember everyone being mesmerised and fixated on the stage in a way I haven't seen since, and that was before he went stellar.
Yeah the girls loved him, he was a good looking guy but the first thing that turned my girlfriend at the time and myself on to him was the music. There are plenty of pretty boys with nice haircuts that don't have it and he did. In spades.
I always found Grace
...entirely forgettable. I tried to like it because my freinds banged on about it so much but it just never did anything for me.
This is the point I was going to get to next
I don't "get" him as a musician. I think his songs are overstated. The fact that he idolised classic fretwank guitarists like Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai and Joe Satriani says more about his approach to music than any number of adjectives could.
But then I think the best version of 'Hallelujah' is Kathryn Williams's... about as far from his vocal approach as it's possible to get without actually singing out of a different orifice.
Agreed
The Van Halen comparison is spot on. Jeff Buckley was in awe of his own ability to perform vocal gymnastics, and never used a single note if he could squeeze in a dozen. I generally liked the guy, and loved a couple of the songs on Grace, but it would have been a much stronger album if he'd reigned himself in.
To use a footballing analogy, he'd have been a lot more effective if, like Ronaldo, he'd learned that sometimes it's better play a straightforward pass rather than baffle onlookers with a series of stepovers. He needed an Alex Ferguson. Or something.
It's all about the voice
I love Elliot Smith and Jeff Buckley, but I can understand that people love Buckley for the quality and pitch of his voice.
Smith writes great songs, but his voice doesn't stand out in the same way.
Nick Drake also has a similarly haunting voice that marks him out from, say Bert Jansch (and, of course Drake died).
I don't think Buckley and Smith....
Are in the same league as Drake. I don't even think they're playing the same sport.
I agree
Nick Drake's stuff is so, so much better.
Agreed, Nick Drake is sublime
but I still think Jeff Buckley has great merit also. They're not mutually exclusive.
Buckleys material...
..let him down, it doesn't matter how "angelic" your voice is, you gotta have the tunes.
Original material
Well, like I said, my two favourite songs of his are both covers. One is beyond overplayed, so here's the other one:
Voices
Have you guys come across Mark Mulcahy? Now there is a truly talented singer.
Couldn't abide him to be honest
I was "conned" into buying Grace by swooning reviews in Mojo and didn't take to it at all. Overblown comes to mind. Got rid of it years ago.
Ridiculous and preposterous.
Grace is a diamond of a record. Yes he occasionally veered off into over-egging certain musical puddings but the guy was fantastic. Great musician, great songwriter, great performer great singer..he was only going to improve and stun the world. Sadly those who've copied him and cited him as a main influence have been total tosh. That's not his problem. And as for his looks - couldn't give a monkeys either way. Music is invisible.
Saw him live
and was completely underwhelmed.
No different from the current crop of Blunt's/Rice's/Gonzalez's/Morrsion's to be truthful.
Horrifically over-rated.
As Ian Faith said "Death sells"
Posters and reputations.
Ian Faith...
a svengali of our times.
"At the record company meeting, at last a dead star"
Paint A Vulgar Picture, The Smiths, Strangeways Here...
Leonard Cohen's vocal...
...on Hallelujah sounds wise and wry. Jeff Buckley's version is hollow and over-emoted, like most of Grace. Even when he's under-emoting, say on Lilac Wine, it sounds like he's over-emoting. He was the indie Michael Bolton.
He was IN NO WAY...
Indie!
urgh... perish the thought... He was on the one of the biggest and oldest labels (Columbia/Sony) and had *HUGE* record company support. No-one could be LESS indie!
singing it 'wrong'
I read an interview where Jeff said he'd sung 'Hallelujah' wrong, and he should have sung it more like John Cale's version. He said 'he sang it like a man, but i sing it like a boy'.
(and i have to agree. the john cale version is still the best i've heard.)
Grace
I really like a few tracks on it, but when some of it pops up on my MP3 player when it's on shuffle, I wonder what duff rock band who had one single that got to No 37 and was never heard of again I'd forgotten to delete from it.
Elliott Smith, absolute brilliance.