I've Seen Dead People
What with the Jimi Hendrix Experience being reduced from a trio to a zero, I've been thinking about the number of performers I've seen live who've since kicked rock's rusty bucket and passed on to the great gig in the sky. I've only been going to shows since the early eighties, but it's still quite a list.
*Takes deep breath*
Kurt Cobain, Jeff Buckley, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Phil Lynott, Joey Ramone, Johnny Ramone, Dee Dee Ramone, Stiv Bators, Ian Dury, Arthur Lee, Freddy Mercury, Joe Strummer, Elliott Smith, Richie Manic (note: may not be dead), Steve Marriott, Razzle (the Hanoi Rocks drummer, not the porn mag), Wendy O. Williams, Rick Wright, Johnny Thunders, Jam Master Jay, Townes Van Zandt, Ray Charles, Stuart Adamson (Big Country), Steve Clark (Def Leppard), Rob Collins (The Charlatans), Brian Connolly (The Sweet), Layne Staley (Alice in Chains), Jason Thirsk (Pennywise), Will Sin (The Shamen), Jon Lee (Feeder), Chris Acland (Lush).
Two things strike me: first, that there's only one woman in the list, the pneumatically exaggerated, chainsaw-juggling Wendy O. Williams, and second, that being a musician truly is a dangerous job: only Ray Charles in this list came close to reaching average life expectancy, and elsewhere it's all drug overdoses, disease, drownings, suicide, car crashes, and other types of violent demise.
It makes me wonder: would our attitude to music and musicians be different if the lifestyle wasn't so conducive to an early exit, if no-one lived fast and died young? Would Elvis still be singing in his seventies? In which direction would Nick Drake's career have moved? Would the Clash have eventually reformed? Would we even care as much?
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Many were turning sh*te or would have turned out sh*te
Let's be brutally honest here and just talking about the really big hitters: Lennon, Presley, Strummer, Morrison/Doors, Mercury/Queen, Cobain/Nirvana... their best days and albums were behind them when they slipped away.
Of your list Fraser, I can only imagine The Ramones having an AC/DC style 'return to form'. They didn't really get the credit or sales they deserved at their pomp (76-79) and I could well imagine them headlining Reading or Glastonbury in the last couple of years.
Fair point
Most popular musicians produce their best music in the first 5 years (10 if they're lucky) of their careers. Early death lets us speculate on 'what might have been', but experience tells us that early promise is usually as good as it gets.
btw, Fraser - never saw Lonnie Donegan?
Ramones should have been able to play a final gig...
where the audience consisted solely of all the celebs who had worn their T-Shirts without ever knowing what the band sounded like! Can't picture Posh Spice stagediving to the sounds of "Cretin Hop".
Gig would have to be held at CBGB's of course to cater for all the people wearing their shirts as fashion statement!
kb, personally I think Joe Strummer (as solo) and Nirvana's final albums were their best - could have been much better things to come.
Kirsty MacColl's final "Tropical Brainstorm" was a great album too.
I disagree about Nirvana
In Utero was their finest album and the Unplugged album hinted at an intriguing new direction. Their last live shows were fantastic, from the bootlegs I've heard.
Plus we might have been spared the Foo Fighters...
And I disagree about The Doors
LA Woman is my favourite album of theirs and is probably the best of their career.
On the main point it should be noted that 'ordinary' people die violent deaths all the time...drug overdoses, suicide, car crashes and so on, and more often than not 'before their time'.
Tragic or stupid deaths are not exclusive to the music business.
I get no joy from the fact the musicians and singers I like are dead, I would much prefer they were still around making music or if times are tough appearing on 'I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here'.
Many of the artists I most admire are still around and whether they are still being productive or not does not taint my listening pleasure of the music they made ten, twenty or thirty years ago.
Seconded
I always liked the Doors, both for the singles and the album tracks, but L.A. Woman really delivered for me.
I still remember the first time I heard Riders On The Storm on the radio, and the subsequernt thrill of exploring the whole album. Do you remember the little vinyl window in the LP sleeve?
I also recall how much I was looking forward to the next album when Jim inconsiderately checked out early.
Thirded,,
their best album by far. I love the 'sozzled' quality of Morrison's voice on that record. His liver's loss was the listener's gain...
Obituaries that passed me by
I didn't know (or had completely forgotten) that Wendy O Williams and Stiv Bators were dead.
Creative juices
Many acts - not just the ones who have kicked the bucket - produce their best in the early years of their musical career. So, for example, with Buddy Holly & Eddie Cochran you never got to the cabaret, crap and comeback years.
Perhaps it is to do with money. The more they earn to lazier they become, writing and performing. The solution could be not to pay over their royalties and other earnings. Keeps them lean and mean. They only get all their hard-earned dosh at 60, as a pension, a definite incentive to live long and prosper.
Johnny Cash
Lived fast, got religion, died old. And was doing pretty respectably when he went.
Thinking of people I've seen who are now no more I can include Joe Strummer, John Entwistle and Keith Moon. The Who are still doing quite well (as long as they stick to old material) so I think if the last two were still around they'd be OK.
Also Lowell George, Alan Hull (who was apparently recording new stuff when he died), Ewan McColl (who was definitely past his best when I saw him) who lived slow and died late and Jake Thackray who had more or less stopped performing and writing.
I don't think the deaths in the music industry
are higher than average it's just that more people know them. If the friend of indie drummer dies young it might get in the local paper but very few people will know about. If the drummer dies all their fans know.
As to any gender bias well young males are more successfull (if that's the right word and it's probably not so please excuse me) at commiting suicide than their female cohorts but also pop muisc is full of blokes.
As to the what would have happened next debate I fear in Jimi's case I wouldn't have liked his later lp's. I prefered his pop tunes and I fear come 1974 we'd have got a lot noodly tedious jazz rock with none of the fizz and pop thrill of his first tunes.
Dangerous job
I do think there is a higher proportion of early deaths in music than elsewhere - can't prove it, but 'profession' does offer easy access to large quantities of tempting, potentially lethal substances and also attracts some artistic, sensitive types with potential to go off the rails when get spotlight on them. Perhaps also women are less inclined to be drawn to the business for the sex and drugs and are more in it for the rock 'n' roll, though not always?
Rock and roll
is hardly deep sea fishing or working on building sites which are truly the most dangerous jobs. we juts notice the deaths most poeple in music are alive thank fully.
Dunno
about building sites - are they really that dangerous? Deep sea fishing certainly - but then you can always find something worse than being rock star if you try. But if you look at other showbiz work, like acting, or newsreading or just the kind of work most of us do - offices, banks, shops, there is a significantly lower mortality level I would suggest. Mind you I was nearly impaled on a paper knife recently and have taken to inhaling the lief threatening fumes from thinners and marker pens of late in order to numb the stressful pain and despair of the daily grind.
True
I don't think anyone is claiming that being in an indie four-piece is as dangerous as confronting the Taliban in southern Afghanistan or mining coal. On the other hand, a job in IT probably doesn't surround you with hangers-on offering free narcotics and a legion of fans for whom any depression or angst might be considered some kind of artistic, positive asset.
But surely
Working in IT in the Word office brings all these things?
Sadly not
Just the occasional slice of Andrew Harrison's home-made bacon & egg pie. Very nice it is, too.
Bacon and egg pie
I remember my mum making that until she started making quiche, in the 70s. its was exactly the same recipe.
But without the lid
I assume?
Hers never had a lid.
Blimey, did she invent quiche, a teuchter frae Stornoway.....
worse things happen at sea
and on oil rigs, and on the m4 and even on buillding sites....not wanting to labour the point here's the top 7 dodgy jobs.
1.Fisherman or Merchant Seafarers: around 103 per 100,000 fishermen and 52 in every 100,000 merchant seafarers die while working
2.Bomb Disposal or Mine Clearance Expert
3.Oil or Gas Rigger
4.Construction Workers: 3.7 workers per 100,000
5.Lorry and Commercial Drivers
6.Deep-sea Diver
7.War Zone Security Guard
Of the dead people I've seen
only Freddie Mercury and Alan Hull exited prematurely.
Frank Sinatra, Ray Charles and James Brown all had a good run despite, in all three cases, a life of excess. I'm here to say that as a live act James Brown was still on top form about 3 or 4 months before his death, and was certainly much improved on when I first saw him 5 or 6 years previously.
Not being a huge fan I had forgotten, if I ever knew, that Alan Hull was no longer with us. The first gig I ever went to was in 1980 with Lindisfarne supporting Mike Oldfield and Van Morrison. I'm not sure what the point of this is, but it's really brought me down (man) on Monday morning.
Forgot to mention Ian Dury
It would be interesting to see what he'd be up to.
Yes indeed ...
Ian Dury - saw him. And Bo Diddley. Brilliant and rubbish respectively.
Ian Dury & Kirsty MacColl
I saw them both at Dury's "Sunday Night At The Palladium" gig in 2000 - sadly both died later the same year but did leave fantastic final albums that left you wondering how much more great stuff they could have produced.
I ain't superstitious, but
I'm wondering about cause and effect in Fraser's list. Do you think you should start warning the performers that you're going to be there? You could even start up a nice little protection racket by demanding a non-attendance fee.
This is what Elvis does now....
Layne Staley...
...walked a fine line between documenting the minutiae of his drug habit and revelling in the junkie lifestyle. Listen to his work in chronological order and you can hear the celebratory posturing of a song like Junkhead slowly crumble away, as he sinks into a narcotised, self-absorbed quagmire.
The songs on Alice in Chains’ eponymous studio album (whose front cover, featuring a three-legged dog, now seems eerily prescient) are grim, forensically detailed accounts of drug addiction, tinged with narcissism.
Six years on from his death, there is still a lot of love around for Layne. He deserves it. He was a talented guy caught in a downward spiral - his subject matter contributed to his fame but set him up for an early grave. I always hoped that he might get himself together in the same way that Mark Lanegan did.
The life of a jobbing musician is hard; even when you discount the myriad perils afforded by sex, drugs and the prospect that when you lob that television through the hotel window, the power cord might coil around your ankle, like the Balrog’s whip in The Fellowship of the Ring, and pull you over the balcony. There is no job security, no pension plan, no healthcare outside whatever service your native country provides. The contracts that you sign wouldn’t be worth the paper they were printed on in any other industry. Touring in a cramped van, playing for a pittance in some fleapit venue and sleeping on strange floors, is an adventure when you’re barely out of your teens; less so as you approach 30 and your friends are settled and well-established in their careers, while you are still scratching around to make a living.
I only recently learned that Lance Hahn, formerly of J Church had died in 2007, not as a result of an excessive lifetsyle, but aged 40, from complications following kidney dialysis. This article written five years before his death demonstrates how tough it can be for a moderately successful musician and how much they rely on the support of their peers to get them through tough times.
I always say
that you should catch these people while you can.
Here's a few I'm glad I saw:
Miles Davis, Rick Wright, Arthur Lee, Danny Federici, Joe Henderson, Frank Sinatra, Stuart Adamson, Lester Bowie, Michael Brecker, Don Cherry, James Brown, Kirsty McColl.
not that many for me
Bon Scott
Joe Strummer
Stuart Adamson
John McGeogh
Pete DeFreitas
Not too many for me...
Kirsty McColl, Richard Wright and ..er.. Cliff from the Spinners (he's just died aged 83, according to Wikipedia)
I was thinking none, but I
I was thinking none, but I saw Cozy Powell who is no longer with us. But I've only been going to gigs since the early nineties and am only in my twenties. Having said that, I've see Dylan, the Stones and a good few elder statesmen of rock so it's only a matter of time...
Only two for me
Rick Wright - very sadly missed. The Floyd's gig at Earls Court in 1994 is still the greatest live show I've ever seen.
John Entwistle - dying of drugs in a hotel room with a hooker. Could his death be any more rock'n'roll?
I also saw Gary Glitter and now his career is dead - does that count?
Discussing the dangers of the music biz reminds me of something said about the supposed curse of The Exorcist. Several members of the crew and cast suffered strange deaths or unexplained accidents, but one crew man responded by saying that in any number of people, over a couple of years some would die or be injured, others would get divorced or married, and so on. The same, it seems, is true of bands (although obviously they do have more access to potentially lethal medicinal powders than Joe Public).
Stuart Adamson
I'm sure I've mentioned this on here before, but I saw Big Country support Page & Plant in Dublin on their Unledded Tour, complete with Egyptian (no tour should leave home without one) Orchestra. Big Country were by that stage very much yesterday's band, and I was not greatly enthused. So, on they come, pick up their instruments and one song in the drummer throws up over the kit and exits smartly stage left. Food poisoning apparently. The remaining three - totally unfazed - pick up acoustics and turn in an excellent 30 minute covers set including 'Don't Fear The Reaper'. Great gig all round.
Who Put The Boot In
I saw this wonderful show that the Who played in 1976 at Celtic Park in Glasgow.
The headliners have lost half their lineup since, Moon and The Ox, RIP.
The Sensational Alex Harvey Band lost their titular leader in 1982.
Little Feat's Lowell George only had a couple more years of excellence and excess. He died 1979.
The Outlaws, a half decent multi-guitar Skynyrd style band have lost three of their original number.
Only the Chapman-Whitney Streetwalkers, as far as I know, have escaped a visit from the Reaper.
Beat that.
Widowmaker
I saw that line up at Swansea. Don't forget that bottom of the bill was Widowmaker. The only member I know of was Steve Ellis, whom I believe is still with us.