Entertainment For Lively Minds
Irrational Musical Prejudices
While I like to think that I have a fairly open mind when it comes to music, and the tone of postings on here seems to suggest that most Word readers are similar, I do have some completely negative reactions to
a) Folk Music - drugged up hippies with mandolins and girl singers with long hair, warbling along drearily and "meaningfully" about frogs on lily ponds, maidens being abandoned and mediaeval outlaws being hanged.
b) Radio 2 - when I was a teen, Terry Wogan was the epitome of uncool, and the dreadful MOR musical choices (Carpenters, Neil Diamond, those ones who sang "Afternoon Delight") were awful - after all I could have been listening to DLT on Radio 1 playing the Boomtown Rats. 30 years later Wogan is still there and the station is now a repository for the worst of 80s era DJing (yes, I do mean Steve Wright). I have to pretend to myself that Radcliffe and Maconie are really broadcasting on 6Music. The irony that I would sooner listen today to Karen Carpenter or Neil Diamond than the Boomtown Rats is not lost on me - though just not on Radio 2.
c) Factory Records - Although my view of Tony Wilson changed over time, my instinctive reaction to Joy Division (post-punk one hit wonders only remembered because their singer topped himself), New Order (plodding synth based disco music) and the Happy Mondays (as groundbreaking and relevant as Sigue Sigue Sputnik) is to hit the off button. A Certain Ratio were pretty good though.
Anyone else care to share their musical blindspots? And before anyone berates me too much, please remember the first word in the title is "irrational"
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Radio 2
has only got two saving graces during the hours I occasionally tune in. Mr Walker still manages to introduce a whiff of anarchy and taste, and Mr Maconie is also good value. It's ironic that I usually hear these two when they are sitting in for an absentee.
As for the "champeen" tosspot Wright, I can't stand the man, never could, never will.
Wrighty
I lived in Reading in the mid '70's and the local radio station (Thames Valley 210 or something like that) featured the Read and Wright Show. That's Mike Read and Steve Wright and they were excellent!
How times have changed. I assume now that Wrighty has recorded just the one afternoon show and they repeat it every day with different records - that's why he never announces them.
Wogan etc
When I was a teen my mother used to have Wogan on while we breakfasted. However in those days BBC was subject to needletime restrictions hence all that rubbish from session bands like Ray McVay and The Button Down Brass (mere mention sets my teeth on edge) and the records played were selected by the producer. Wogan was there to keep things moving along and had no input into the music selection. Today the producer still selects most of the music but Wogan et al do have some choice in the music.
The upside of needletime restrictions is the vast archive the BBC now holds of Peel sessions plus bands that did sessions for Bob Harris, Kid Jensen, Stuart Henry, Pete Drummond and a whole lot more.
Radio 2
I had the dubious pleasure of taking lunch with a Radio 2 producer the other day and after berating him for their dreadful playlist policy he told me that I have to remember that most Radio 2 listeners (ie a very large percentage of the British public) have pretty dreadful taste in music. He even claimed to have research to back it up.
And do you know what? I reckon he's (W)right.
Folk Music - mediaeval????
Irrational indeed man!
Exhibit #2
I've mentioned before...
my irrational hatred of "indie" bands with guys who have that stupid curly hair-do, like The Kooks, Kaiser Chiefs, Zutons, Fratellis etc etc.
Angst-ridden "dramatic" wailing also rubs me up the wrong way, Coldplay, Elbow, Radiohead, Keane, Muse - that sort of thing - like a cat's claws down a blackboard...ouch!
Nothing irrational about disliking that bunch.
They're awful. You dislike is very logical. Mind you I would like Radiohead if they had a different singer or if they were an instrumental band.
ipso facto
such a dislike is not irrational...
hating bands 'cos they're shite is rational. Hating bands 'cos they can be described as 'indie landfill' or because large floppy curly heads of hair annoy you is irrational.
Both are, however, completely acceptable points of view, obv!
Kaiser Chiefs don't have stupid curly hairdos
...you're confusing them with Europe.
Their bass player does...
That's the kind of curly hair I'm talking about - not the Europe, Whitesnake, Bon Jovi blow dryed jobs, although they are pretty damn disgraceful now you come to mention it.
Makes my point perfectly
Clip 1 (don't know who the singer is) - one of those annoying "folky" voices and an acoustic guitar
Clip 2 - quite apart from the fact that it's the appalling Billy Bragg, listening to people wittering about "a hard life in Olde England" is not my idea of fun
This being the internet you can change your point.
"a) Folk Music - drugged up hippies with mandolins and girl singers with long hair, warbling along drearily and "meaningfully" about frogs on lily ponds, maidens being abandoned and mediaeval outlaws being hanged. "
Point taken
I didn't want to turn the whole posting into a rant about folk, but it's just the whole rather humourless, intense and desire for "authenticity" that it seems to have and that it appears to look down on other forms of music, plus the beards and floaty dresses (not on the same people, which would be interesting.) Most importantly though is that I tend to find the music extremely boring.
And Kitson, agree with you about floppy curly haired singers - add to that floppy curly haired men in particular (Alan Davies, Simon Amstell etc)
It could be jealousy on my part...
as I don't have much hair left to curl anyway...but it does seem to equate - stupid curly haircut = shite music.
Also, you are right, Alan Davies and Amstell are cases of you ARE your haircut!
The Imagined Village
cocks a finger or two at traditionalists. But it does contain Billy Bragg so I could be wasting my time. The song is about certain aspects of modern England.
One thing though, every folk event I have ever been to seems to have an audience made up of Milletts/Blacks obsessives.
If this does nothing for you then I'll leave you and your missus alone as she slowly slips away on the....
...are you sure?
... no folk related music appeals at all? Not Bob Dylan, John Martyn, Nick Drake, Kathryn Williams, Devendra Banhart, Iron and Wine, Joni Mitchell, Jose Gonzalez, Judee Sill, King Creosote, REM (yes - REM). You don't like any of these at all?
apart from Kathryn Williams and Joni Mitchell
in small doses, that sounds like the playlist from hell...like to hear why you describe REM as folk, while there is clearly an influence on certain songs particularly on the "Out of Time" period, it seems to be stretching a point?
Because...
...without Bob Dylan there would would have been no REM. They have more in common with Dylan than they do Steeleye Span. Folk music is as diverse as anything else. You can't say you don't like any folk music man! It's like your mum saying that your music all sounds the same. Of course it does if you don't listen to it.
Split the genre
I think what he means is that he likes Folk-Rock (Van Morrison, REM) and Jazz-Rock (John Martyn). When he says folk, he might mean traditional style folk. I'm with him. Traditional style folk is boring while Folk-Rock eats up a lot of my iPod hard drive.
Genres...
... are just a marketing ploy - either music is good, bad or mediocre. Bono (often, though not always a pranny) did once say that U2 were a folk bad, albeit a very loud one. I personally think that if it can be done successfully on an acoustic guitar it qualifies as folk which could mean (depending on the song) the likes of the Beatles, Echo and the Bunnymen and the Ramones as well as all the usual suspects. (I once had a whole room full of people singing the chorus to Pet Semetary - a sound indeed to be heard). To recycle an old adage - before you make up your mind first you have to open it.
The 'Alt'
in 'alt' country. What the hell does it mean? Either it is country.
Or it Goddam ain't.
I must say I agree with you.
Whenever I see it in print a la Uncut I move quickly on. As you say, either it is or it isn't. I think it may be more to do with the fashion and the look, which actually makes the supposedly sub genre sound ridicules. If Sound is the correct word.
Uncut
This is the magazine that currently on their website describes Bob Dylan's radio show as "genius".
Pouring more scorn...
...on the 'landfill indie' brigade seems like shooting fish in a barrel in the current climate, but to hell with it. I had to put up with hearing how great these bands were in the sixth form lounge and also reading the NME that people would bring into school at that time. I didn't agree then, and like them even less now they are all over the place. It's satisfying to see my hatred for this lot's music is now widely shared, though!
'Alt.country' is something that baffles me as well, what does it mean really? Country without the tunes? There's an entertaining rant about this 'genre' on David Hepworth's website, by the way.
Alt Country
Isn't it a reaction to the so-called " Prats In Hats" who dominate Modern country music. An Alternative to all that S**** that Nashville's major record companies put out.
I think it's akin to the "Indie" movement which is still refered to in some quarters as ALternative.
Thought for the day
......can't bear it - up there with "Imagine" as an instant turn over trigger. What annoys me most about it is how little thought goes into it - it is just a daily slop of religious dogma from one of the big 4. How about a few non-religious contributions which are nonetheless thought provoking?
They've been barred
The Secular Society tried to get access to TFTD a few years back but were denied a slot. Bizarre reasoning to me. I thought TFTD was about morality. Otherwise how does say, a Hindu with their mutliplicity of gods relate to montheistic Christians, Jews and Islamists?
Religious
I think it's "owned" by Religious Affairs and with the tolerance and understanding that most religions display when faced with someone who doesn't agree with them, they just told them to bog off. It should be called "Religious dogma dose of the day".
There's only one thing worse...
...and that's the slot that Wright does about 4.45 pm every Monday when some gormless berk or bint arrives on air to give "advice" to listeners based upon their "birthsign". It's astrology time, and I have to rapidly re-tune or risk spattering the dashboard and filling my lap with my lunch.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Worse than religion is ignorance, stupidity and superstition. On reflection, I suppose they're often exactly the same thing.
erm
Am I missing something or are you replying to a different blog Twang?
Worse than that
I think, on reflection, I'm replying to a thread that doesn't actually exist.........I just sort of went into rant mode after a hot day in London!
'Proper' singers
I have an aversion to singers who deliver from the dia..diaph...chest in a full-bodied manner. Examples: Stereophonics, Manic Street Preachers, much of U2...
Oh bollocks...
Now you're going to get me started on the Rod Stewart "throaty" growl...as you mentioned that pint sized prat from Stereophonics and that utterly, utterly abysmal "Rock Star" song by Nickleback - that is even on the bloody tele now too...arrggghh!
What's wrong
I'm not going to be sticking up for the singers from those bands as I don't particularly care for them, but at the same time I get fed up when I hear yet another singer coming along who goes for the easy option of the nasal twang.
I like the idea...,
...I like the stage set, I like the gig at the highest pub in the land, I like the name, I like the title of the first album. In fact, I like everything about British Sea Power except the music.
Amorous Hum
rhymes with dumb - put that in a folk song. How can you dismiss a whole genre so easily or are just trying to be provocative? Folk music encompasses such a wide range of styles, groups, periods of time,fashions, attitudes, countries of origin. Do you dislike Irish folk music? American folk music? gypsy folk music? The whole lot by the sounds of it which puts you in the category of cloth-eared to my mind.
Someone once told me that she didnt like the music being played on shuffle on my IPOD. 'what,all 4700 plus songs i asked?' - the point is if you are open minded there will always be something in any genre that you will like - unless of course you dont like music in the first place.
Am with you on Joy Division and New Order though - completely overrated.
See my original post...
It is completely irrational to dismiss a whole "genre", as it is irrational to dismiss the output of a radio station or the complete works of a record label. My point was that there are certain triggers that immediately put me off something, and "folk" is one of them. On the whole I don't like a lot of the music that people describe as folk, but I'm also sure that there is a lot in my record collection that would also fit into that category (The Band, Nanci Griffith being two that immediately spring to mind).
Dub reggae.
Jazz Funk.
House.
Bungalow.
Dub Bungalow.
Garage.
Extension to the garage.
Balcony.
Anything that just goes on forever without any discernible tune or form and makes people with beads in their hair ( and who drive old lorries plastered with peace signs ) close their eyes, nod and go 'wow' basically.
Dont forget your very favourite eddie g
CHICKS!
Hi Springer.
Call me old-fashioned if you will but I would maintain ( and hope ) that an aversion to easy sexual stereotyping would not strike most Word readers as being irrational. ( Or particularly musical come to that ).
Certainly not musical
That's for sure.
Wouldn't do to get too anal about this
But....Most rock Chicks call themselves Rock Chicks in my experience and that my friend is a fact.
I'm with Eddie.
It's like gay peoples' reappropriation of the term "queer", or black people calling each other "nigger"* - while it may be appropriate for them to use the disparaging language of the oppressor (the bigot or the slavemaster), it's highly suspect for someone else to do so. Language use denotes the attitude of the user. "Chick" = "insignificant ball of fluff", so it's best avoided if that's not what you intend to convey. (And if it is, you may have to be sent to one of our camps in the countryside for 're-education'.) *(Big debate over the latter usage, of course. Richard Pryor famously stopped using the term after visiting Africa and not seeing any "niggers", only black people.)
Oh Please !!!!!
Lets not sing 95% of Blues/Rock n Roll/Hip Hop/Soul then because they may be and are disparaging to the the female gender.
I don't think anyone around here is trying to be disparaging to girls, and if "Rock Chicks" call themselves that and I live with one then that is what I will call them. No offence given or in my experience taken either. Because in my case my beautiful partner would not hold back if she thought that the comment came over as disparaging or in any way insulting.
So there.
Well,
that told me! I'm still with Eddie, mind. And I can think of plenty of women who'd take umbrage at being termed "girls", whatever they might call themselves. (See "queer"/"nigger" examples above.) I'd agree that one can get away with stuff with someone one knows well (as with you and your partner - she knows your intentions and attitudes, as you say), which would, however, be inadvisable used as a blanket term or of a stranger. Context does matter. (So there!) I'll shut up now....
I hope that Guardian Guilt
is not taking over the blog. Must say Nigel I disagree with you and Eddie. I have a problem with the way the examples of "nigger" and "queer" are used to "Hammer" home arguments like this.
I suppose it maybe a political thing and if you hold this opinion you are quite entitled to. However that does not mean that does who don't are women hating male chauvinist pigs.
And for the record I married a "Rock Chick". And although she is probably more of a Rock Hen now she loves being called my Rock Chick.
Mind you her name for me is less complementary. Life eh!
Perhaps
we'll have to agree to differ. My response to Pagey re familiarity with the addressee applies equally well to you and your better half, of course. And while I wouldn't dream of arguing that anyone who uses such terms as "chick" is an MCP, I might well, if pressed, argue that such language is sexist. That's all. I really will shut up now. (Getting vertigo on this high horse....)
I'll give you that it may be sexist
However I certainly am not (although as you might argue, my language may be). Anyway you are not the only one with a high horse. I shall now dismount before someone misunderstands my sexist language and lances me.
I shall also dismount from my very enormous High Horse
However without giving up my argument. I still can't see the offence and I'm hardly Benny Hill.
Maccanorelation.
I bow to your Jupiterean wisdom in these matters. My friend.
I'm just laughing
The only offended here seem to be men. But there you go.
Mostly men
watching/posting on this site, I suspect. Not really a valid cross-section of society. Damn! Said I'd shut up...
Well....
I was just winding up Eddie (who took it in in good spirit, I think) re a previous thread on Rock Chicks. This one will obviously run and run, but I've got a dinner to prepare and a house to clean, (I also do ironing) for my very own "Rock Chic" and her extremely "Rock Chick Sister" and "Crazy Rock Chick Friend " (I kid you not).
So I shall mount my own High Horse and ride off to Tesco for the ingredients.
Pink Floyd
That's it really. Just never got them. But then I remain probably the only person on the planet who has never listened to Dark Side of the Moon all the way through. And am therefore entirely qualified for this irrational prejudice...
You're not alone
as far as Dark Side goes. I must have heard it all, but not from Track 1 side 1 to the end of side 2.
I did have a period when I couldn't get them (from early 70's to late 90's), but some years back Shine On You Crazy Diamond hooked me in.
I now own a copy of the Echoes compilation.
No you are not.
It's never really appealed to me. I 've heard bits of it at other peoples houses but that's about it.
Intelligent
Anyone whoe prefixes their music with this. Intelligent Techno/Drum and Bass etc.
Anyone who tries to intellectualize Dance Music. The movement that brought people together etc Dancing in a field is a religious experience.
people will dance to anything if you put enough drugs up yer nose or down yer neck. How about a connection to Gun crime ?
I really hate all this stuff.
Surely The Most Common and Generalised Musical Prejudice...
... is that against country music?
As sweeping dismissals of huge genres go, this surely takes the biscuit. Curiously, it's often heard from people who claim to have wide-ranging tastes and an open mind.
Having played in a country band at one time, I came across a lot of this. I was once chatting with a colleague who claimed to be a devotee of "World Music". When I mentioned country, he made the sign of the cross at me and said "It's terrible". For "World Music" read "all the World, expect the southern US states Music".
Equally curiously, this prejudice is very easily challenged. Usually asking "So you don't like anything Johnny Cash did?" is enough to start them back-pedalling. If that's not sufficient, you can hit them with a Steve Earle, a (borderline) Eagles or, these days, a Dolly Parton, and they're in full reverse gear. Just to rub their face in it, you can ask "Have you heard much Dwight Yoakam?", and the "Who?" response is their last gasp.
I'm sure this won't stop them re-offending though.
The prejudice seems to stem from a small collection of artists and songs which truly are awful, but it's a tiny proportion of a vast genre.
Country music...
...it doesn't get much attention in the UK outside of Bob Harris. I remember Jonathan Ross slagging it off on Live Earth, saying something like 'we narrowly avoided some country and western there'.
Anyone who talks about 'County and Western'
in this day and age is automatically suspect. Such people always imagine themselves to be at the very cutting edge with what they call 'taste' (which, to quote Frank McCourt, is 'what you are left with when imagination flies out of the window'). Usually this includes Phil Collins, David Gray, James Blunt and similar twaddle.
Agree totally
I think also it's something you come to later in life - at its best it is the home of simple honest melodies, simple stories of how tough life can be, and is affecting as any blues song. Ignoring, of course, much of the current output of Nashville.
Re : The most common and generalised musical prejudice . . .
It's perfectly possible to love much music made in "the southern US states" and still deride country and western, as any right thinking person should.
The music made in the southern US states that's worth celebrating is almost exclusively soul music made principally, though not exclusively, by black artists.
"deride country and western as any right thinking person should"
Is presumably a piece of parody, demonstrating that these sweeping statements are typically made by people who have so little knowledge of the subject that they use the term "Country and Western"?
I hope you're right,
but suspect you're not. Matt?
Attractive Young Females Who Appear On Their Album Covers
...So that 50-something men will take a chance on their album. Hair do + pretty dress = boring music. Double points if they're holding a guitar.
Examples?
Only the entire Roxy Music back catalogue springs to mind...
As in
No Guitars on show but a damn fine guitar album. Rock on The Donnas.
Poster Cait above has nailed my prejudice...
... me and my equally sexist pig friends used to remark that if a song was sung by a hippy-ish accoustic guitar strumming woman and it had the word "You" anywhere in the title then it was to be avoided like the plague. The chances are you'd get a kooky female perspective on relationships which no hormone crazed youth wants. It was all the fault of Alanis Morrissette.
I guess if I was younger I'd feel the same way about Duffy, Adele, Laura Marling and all of the post Winehouse brigade. As it is I'm just indifferent now. Although the Coldplay soundalikes, as well as Coldplay themselves, no one will be able to persuade me that they have anything to offer ever.
Early seventies cock-rock
Led Zepplin - the occasional good one, mixed in with a load of dross. So what if the drums have been sampled left-right-and-centre? Just shows the rest of it wasn't much good. A lot of it is close to musical self-abuse. And while we're at it The Rolling Stones during this period onwards - Mick sorry you are an ugly sexist middle-aged (make that old now) man. And virtually anything with Ritchie Blackmore. His mandolin stuff is something else though
...and it's rubbish as well
The great and the good - cannot abide them
1. Tina Turner - purely from her performance in Mad Max 3 put me off for life. I cannot listen to her records now. Although Ike & Tina seem to be immune as I can and do enjoy them.
2. 50's Rock and Roll - I know that all the music I now listen to owes something to these originals (and Blues too) I still have no time for the Buddy Holly's and Elvis's et al.
3. The Clash, a complete mystery why I never liked them. Although sound-alikes and acolytes I don't mind.
4. The Smiths/Morrissey - Apart from How Soon Is Now? and Draize Train I just don't get the importance of them and always preferred the much underrated TheThe.
5. Modern R&B/Soul 1980 onwards, there is no soul, you can through as many Luthers/Freddies/Alexanders at me and I still think it sounds plastic and empty when compared to anything from the Stax label pre 1970.
The Clash...
...what puts me off this band so much- and Jim Irwin, apparently, based on this month's magazine!- is the hype surrounding them.
Irrationally perhaps,
I love "Afternoon Delight" and I'm not ashamed to admit it! I bought a water damaged copy in Paris for 50francs (a lot of money come to think of it) in 1976-ish. Played the album through once, hated it, apart from the aforementioned track. I even enjoyed the Ron Burgundy version.
Agree with Humph about Mac bands and daytime Radio 2. Led Zep? Did the odd good tune but mainly they sounded pretty dull to these ears.
At the end of the day, there is only good or bad music and it's completely subjective.
"Mac" Bands
Should be "Manc" bands - I read it through twice befor posting (sigh).
I did wonder
what you meant.
(And have proof-read this one extremely carefully.)
He Was A sloppy Proof Reader
will be inscribed on my gravestone.
Your gravestone should read "He Was a Soppy Poof Raider"
to better illustrate the point.
I'm glad
it's not my own computer that just had my drink exhaled all over it!
Your'e probably right.
Cremation is the safest bet.
Yellow Submarine
Not my favourite Fabs album *but* it does contain my single favourite Fabs track - It's All Too Much
And one of my favourites
Hey Bulldog.
Americana
Speaking as a Yank who used to hate country music eventually came to appreciate talented example versus the rednect patriotic pap that gets played regularly by the likes of Toby Keith...Thing is, I've drifted towards a genre (and I hate using the term) known as AMERICANA. For decent examples of this, head on to BootLiquor.Com. Tales of hard-drinkin', sin, redemption, and crawlin' to the bottom of the bottle and back again.
Mainstream country tends to focus on beery good times in the local bar, blind American patriotism, and down-home God-fearing family life...which I occasionally cast an ear towards on the car-radio as it's the musical equivalent of comfort food for me.
Check out Hank III
who is not remotely patriotic, writes songs with titles like 'Trashville', 'Thrown out of the Bar' and 'Lovesick, Broke and Driftin'' and declares that he is going 'straight to hell'. Not for lovers of George Bush and Mom's apple pie, but brilliant.
Got Some
Actually, I have Hank III kicking around in my iTunes Song Collective. Something about that family that epitomizes the damnation/salvation vibe of old time country music. See also: THE HANDSOME FAMILY, BEN WEAVER, DRIVE-BY TRUCKERS, and JIM WHITE. Never hear ANY of them of my local State Fair, Superbowl-watchin', Nascar-lovin' local country station...
Country "and Western"
It was broadly tongue in cheek, but also a dig at the equally sweeping assertion that the music of the southern states of the US amounts to country and barely anything else of merit.
Pink Floyd. The Beatles. The Band. Van Morrison.
The mainstays of many a decent record collection are notable only by their (near) total absence from mine.
Am I the only man alive who found The Band duller than ditchwater? I watched The Last Waltz 4 or 5 times...still dull. I listened to Before The Flood as many times as I could bear, but by jiminy, they country rocked the life out of Dylan there.
In fact, I even listened to Robbie Robertson's first solo album more times than I care to admit. When the guests (mainly U2 if I recall correctly) are quiet, it was/is dull.
In fact, with the exception of The Beatles, most of the stuff I irrationally dislike is dull. Van Morrison is almost extraordinarily dull; if not for the stories, there'd be no point in his existence at all.
The Band
Yes, Robbie Robertson's first solo album is dull. So are his third, fourth and fifth. Before The Flood is ok, but one should really start with the first two or three albums and Rock Of Ages. Do you think this is dull?
If so, as you were.
My God...
Rick Danko and Levon Helm are so good on this!
WHAT?
Robbie Robertson's first solo album is dull? Strewth, how wrong you are.
Perhaps you haven't heard it for a while, and your memory is off with the fairies. It's outstanding. 'Somewhere Down The Crazy River' is worth the price of admission alone. It's a fiver on Amazon these days too.
I think the truth lies somewhere in between...
the last time I heard 'Robbie Robertson' I remember thinking that Daniel Lanois' production had dated it terribly, but there are some good songs on it. 'Somewhere Down The Crazy River' is outstanding.
Elvis didn't leave the building soon enough
Sorry, Elvis lovers, but I just don't get him. Never saw what the fuss was about. Saying that, pretty much all rock'n'roll leaves me cold. Dylan, too, he's another one. John Lennon as well. Oh, and most soul music. And most of the stuff that's in the charts. Don't forget dance music. And don't get me started on jazz...