Entertainment For Lively Minds
If you can't saying anything nice you won't be fronting the BBC's Glastonbury coverage.
There's been some talk of the patchy quality of Football pundits round here recently but one thing in their favour is that some of them feel able to say negative things about the players, teams, FIFA.
Not so the BBC and Glastonbury which gets an easier ride than the Queen Mum on the network. Already 6music is in full cheerleader effect and then we'll have the coverage in which every act and every other aspect of the festival is brilliant and without fault.
Don't get me wrong I love festivals but I can see their bad sides for instance I saw Keanu Reeve's Dogstar play one time! I really enjoy latitude but think the stages could be moved around a bit, they shouldn't put Thom Yorke on at Sunday lunch time etc but Lauren Laverne, Mark Radcliffe (people not usually short of a opinion) will all get round Michael Eavis' hymn sheet this weekend and sing the praises(on public tv )of what is in the end a private venture for 96 hours.
Contrast this with the Edinburgh festival coverage (coming soon) sure there will be shows highlighting the "best of fringe" but if some new opera or exhibition falls short of the mark, Martha Kearney etc will tell us so.
I'm not calling for gloomy negativity but for some balance and perspective amongst all the gushing and hyperbole.
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I agree, I blame the meedja
The completely adulatory coverage from Ch4 and then the BBC is to blame for converting Glastonbury from a music festival into something approaching a stop-off in the New Season: something to fit in either between Henley, Wimbledon and Cowes, or between one footie season and another.
Remember going to any festival and - apart from fellow music nutters - when you came home you'd face blank stares when you described where you'd been? "What, so these bands play in a field do they?"
Nowerdays, it is a rite-of-passage, part and parcel of the whole "year off to 'travel'"mind-set. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but it seems to be less and less about the music - unless its in a trainspotting way: "Radiohead: yeah tick, Gorillaz: got, U2: haven't"
OMG Chris, your post is AMAAAAZING!
I quite agree. As some skinny-trousered, Shockwaves-haired, tone deaf no marks take to the stage they will be announced as the bestest thing in the known universe. After watching them parping away in their talent vacuum for an hour or so, the TV audience will wonder what the hell the presenter was going on about...
You are Fearne Cotton
and I claim my five pounds.
Parping away in their talent vacuum
My favourite phrase of the week so far. Have an up.
What do you want ...
... Fearne Cotton to say "this is Muse - they are shit".
Err...
yes.
Err...
so you want to be Fearne Cotton. I will make it so.
Because she can...
And they are...
I don't think it would...
...be too much to ask for the presenters to say "well, regardless of personal taste, that was a bit of a lacklustre set", would it?
I mean, you wouldn't want them to slag off the actual records made by the featured artists, because clearly that's not at issue. I do think a bit of analysis of the show wouldn't be a terrible thing.
I've seen some great bands play fucking shocking sets at festivals, but you'd never know it from the way they were covered in the media. I remember in about 2001, I was at Leeds watching Eminem (not that I particularly rate his post-Slim Shady LP stuff). He was dire. Lazy, totally unaware of his audience, bigging up Detroit constantly as if it was supposed to mean something to thirty thousand British kids in a field, and surrounded constantly by that team of 4000 talent voids, D12. I think between them they contributed significantly to the EU "yo" mountain. The number of times they said "yo" actually added up to more than the total word count of all the songs combined.
Coverage? Adulatory. And yet, would we have thought any the less of the media for saying "you know what? Eminem's an exciting voice in modern hip hop. He deserves many of the plaudits heaped upon him for his records. But tonight he was poor."
See also the magazine industry's inability to award less than 8/10 (or four stars) to a shitty record which they've been hyping for months.
Presenters..........
Surely there to present/introduce only and not to offer any personal criticism or observations AND to hype the event to draw in viewers?
I would assume that someone *like* Fearne Cotton (and I'm sure she's very nice) isn't employed to offer witty repartee and a dissection of Nicky Wire/Thom Yorke's latest lyrical waxings on the Nixon administration or the yawning chasms between art and reality.
The critical aspect of these shows should be covered off in The Culture Show or Late Review leaving the live event at the mercy of the remote control finger of the actual viewer.
I don't watch football...
...but isn't part of Lineker et al's job description to provoke discussion and analysis? He's not employed as a pundit, but as a supposedly expert presenter, isn't he? So what would be wrong with pulling back from the coverage and having Fearne ask Mark Radcliffe "so, what did you think of that then?"
I would hope that if Mark were given his druthers, he'd feel able to say "Bobbins".
I'd hate to imagine that discussion of pop culture on telly is solely the preserve of those pseudy gets, Mark Lawson and Kirsty Wark.
So agree
Its that smug grinning that ruins it for me
Good for them! Its great! Everything is great! Everything conforms to the cliche and the stereotype
Spare me
Nail and head interface
I've yet to see the beeb continuity announcer be berated for not following the latest episode of EastEnders with, 'well, that was a bit crap wasn't it? It's just shouting, sorry shahting, and why does no one mention Peggy Mitchell's wig? Next The Apprentice - where Alan Sugar will once more mangle the English language in his charmlessly belligerent way. Enjoy.'
Much as i find the likes of Reggie Yates and Edith Hedge-Backwards to be stultifying dull interviewers and hosts, it's scarcely within their remit to offer any objectivity or even coruscating analysis. They're there to pal up, make mind-numbing small talk and be amiably quotidian. I scarcely imagine their paymasters or the Eavis empire wants caustic diatribes about overcrowding, pricing structures, poor performances et al. Mind you, I'd like to have seen a brief mention of the disparity between Snoop Dogg's attempt to dispense peace, love and bonhomie mere seconds after spouting a lyric about beating up someone's girlfriend. The chilvarous charmer
I am aware of her work
and to be honest I'd rather she didn't say anything. At all.
Thom @Lattitude
I disagree your view on that. I was sitting outside (there wasn't much to see and no seats) with a coffee, and it was absolutely perfect for a Sunday lunchtime. I thought the scheduling was brilliant. I was hoping for a repeat with Jonsi this year.
Yeah...
... you can't beat Jonsi and a coffee.
Sigur Froth?
Sigur Froth?
Paul Wright
I know I'm in minority with Thom at Latitude I just thought he was a miserable choice for sunday morning. But our disagreement illustrates my point not everyone of the 150K at Glastonbury will agree who's good or bad so discussing the performances doesn't mean that the whole thing is flawed it just means not everyone thought "Oasis etc were great or went down a storm".
I sort of agree
but isn't the idea that we see the 'highlights' of Glastonbury? Therefore to show us something they regard as lacklustre rather begs the question, 'Why show it to us then?'
Not sure there's much
editing of what gets shown over the weekend most acts get shown live or in clips there never seems much quality control in the live shows and red button feeds.
It's entertainment, isn't it?
I don't expect Jools to offer critiques after each performance on Later, so I don't expect the Glasto coverage to turn into Late Review.
Glasto is different from the Edinburgh Festival becase there's no competitive edge, it's all under one roof, so to speak, and performances are not fighting for your cash or some prize.
Also, Glasto gives most of it's profits to charity, so I don't see the BBC supporting Glasto as a cynical, Eavis-supporting exercise. Especially when compared to underwriting Lloyd-Webber's West End ventures through Saturday teatime telly, or ITV giving all that free publicity to the latest Cowell signing.
Not sure what you by most of "profits"
the organisers of the event get paid first before any money goes to local products and charities. Also just because it's a charity event doesn't exempt it from being any good so some critical distance woudl be nice. There are other "charity" events that don't get such large amounts of free publicity from the public purse.
As for your Jools analogy that's flawed as the BBC produce later they don't choose the line up of Glastonbury. I wouldn't expect the producers of a show to critique their own line up .
Well now.
I don't have a pie chart, but as I understand it Glasto isn't a charidee event like Live Aid, but it generates money, everyone gets paid, the rest gets given away. And while I see that it shouldn't be beyond criticism for this, I was trying to point out that it's not as clearcut as the original poster saying it's "sing[ing] the praises on public tv of what is in the end a private venture".
The BBC mightn't choose the line-up at Glastonbury, but they do choose to cover Glastonbury, and I assume they do so because they look at the event as a whole a deem it worthy of coverage. Most of what the BBC broadcasts these days is produced independently, so this is not unusual. Jools produces Later himself - so Jools is to Later as Michael & Emily Eavis are to Glasto.
The BBC cover Glastonbury
they don't CHOOSE the acts. Later's producers (BBC and Jool's holland's company) book the acts for the show so I would expect a different approach to the content on it. The BBC cover the Edinburgh festival etc because they know it has in the past contained good acts/shows etc the same as Glastonbury but they also point out the less good shows you'll find there.
Ah, you ARE the original poster
I just don't see the argument. You might as well have a go at the BBC for covering the Chelsea Flower Show because the Beeb doesn't choose the flowers. Glastonbury through accident and design has moved away from crusty wars and evolved into a national institution. It manages to sell out without announcing its line-up, so people are attached to the event and place. In return, the festival strives to the the preeminent festival in the country showing acts of huge popularity alongside a broad range of niche interests.
Now the BBC has a duty to reflect the interests of the British people. Many of them like to go a festival during the summer, so the Beeb should reflect that. The BBC have decided that Glastonbury should be the focus of their summer festival coverage and have stuck a flag in it. I think that's the right decision. And before the "I'm a licence-payer" argument rears it's ugly head, the BBC sells it's Glasto coverage worldwide making the enterprise cost-neutral.
The Edinburgh Festival comparison is not like-for-like. EF+The Fringe is a range of independent production vying for your time, money and in some instances in competition. So there is a role for the critical faculty. If in 2011, Glastonbury decided to have the Glasto Medal for best performance, then that would open an avenue for critical discussion.
Oddly enough I'd like to some "distance" in the coverage
of the RHS flowers shows too! And none of your reasons above are justification for totally uncritical coverage of Glastonbury at the public's expense. Broadcasters like the BBC should offer reflection and examination of events as well as celebration. Oh and knowing the BBC good love it I doubt whether their coverage is "cost-neutral" they seem to have the knack of finding a tenner in street and getting home and finding they've only got £9.50 left. I don't have a problem with the BBC covering one of Britain's largest festivals it would be odd if they didn't they just need some balance in their coverage of this and every other commercial enterprise.
It comes down to this...
The BBC broadcasts Glastonbury for entertainment. I think it's entertaining. I don't want the BBC to introduce balance so that I know "other festivals are available". I know they are - I just want to see music on telly. Glastonbury is the best, or one of the best festivals and the best broadcaster in the world is covering it. I see that as win-win. All this other stuff is political correctness gone mad!
Two points:
(1) Of course I don't like Ferne Cotton. I'm only human!
(2) I never understood why the BBC shows the National Lottery
It's not even started yet...
... and the presenters are getting a pasting for not slagging bands off for poor performances (which they haven't performed yet).
I was prompted by
6 music banging on about the festival all this week. Lauren Laverne virtually exploded this morning going on about it and how great every single band that was going to play was.
From what I gather...
...the people linking the coverage are seeing considerably less of the events than the people at home.
i suspect that's right
I sometimes work in a tech capacity at live (in my case sporting) events, and I can concur - in my experience anyway - and unless things at Glasto are much different from the norm - there will be a Media Area somewhere on site, where the host broadcasters will have been allocated a small space for an office and a Pres(entation) set. It is from here that a lot of the links will originate. This set will quite likely be at a distance from the action. The presenters will be simply watching the feed on the monitors, whilst various clipboards keep them genned up on who is actually appearing, who is on next, when they need to run to a different location on site for the next link etc. Being that the emphasis is on keeping it upbeat, and right first time, the emphasis will thus be on simplicity. So yes, expect lots of "(Insert name of act here). Wow. That was 'MAZING!".
That's cleared things up for me...
... I could never understand how the presenters got from the middle of the mosh pit to the studio only seconds after the last song.
Peel...
was always able to let us know what he thought of a band without having to come out and say it.
And...
...three more from them.
Christ...
I really do miss the man. What price his sanity in a sea of banality.
And another thing
While we're at it, my gripe (as one who couldn't possibly be in a field with that many people - oh, the humanity) is always that they show far too much of a few bands, despite having cameras on all stages. In that way, it's not nearly critical or judgmental enough - if it really is highlights, then that duff performance from Oasis headlining on the Saturday should have been cut down and something good slipped in. And I'd love to hear some critical analysis from Radcliffe - though I seem to remember him looking a bit, er, tired for much of last year's screentime.
A thought, though: did Ellen and Hepworth offer analysis of Live Aid? Did Bob Dylan get the shoeing he deserved, or Freddie Mercury praise for lifting the day?
I personally would like the coverage to be...
... less about cheerleading the event.
But is it accurate to compare music coverage with sport coverage? After all, England were undeniably poor against Algeria, but if Lauren Laverne announced that Muse were crap thousands of fans watching the band may well disagree pretty vociferously. The subjective nature of music and the desire of telly presenters to transmit the excitement of the live audience to the people watching at home kind of goes aginst subjective analysis I'd think...
Last year I went on record here
saying lots of very unflattering things about almost all the acts. My faith in myself as a music fan wavered.
I felt petty, vindictive and spiteful.
I hadn't enjoyed myself so much in years.
Bring on the weekend!
Has it really been a year already?
It was indeed great fun... I remember it well. I shall gladly join you again this year. But I shall dish out praise as well as scorn where it's due.
Looking forward to it
and exam marking permitted, I shall be with you.
Shall we all meet back here at say, 7ish, on Friday?
Praise as well as scorn.
Agreed. :-)
Watching Keanu Reeves' Dogstar
dodging, and failing to dodge wave after wave of piss filled plastic cider bottles was one of the most entertaining things I've ever witnessed. It was sunny too, if I recall..
I remember that!
Was it you that hit Keanu's bass full on with a (presumably piss-soaked) tennis ball in the middle of their first song?
I don't see the point of presenters at all.
And part of the fun of Peel was that he seemed to acknowledge it was a most ridiculous profession. But if we are to have them at Glastonbury why not give it over to Lawrenson, Hansen and Shearer? It would amuse me greatly anyway.
It's often better to let the crowd be the judge @ these things
Not from Glastonbury but you get the idea:
One of my favourite festival memories
I was in that crowd - 5 pints to the good and having just had my nipple pierced at the Metalmorphosis tent! Watching 20,000 people shout 'you're bollocks!' at the 'you're ugly' bits was hilarious, as was the way they just laughed it off and carried on dancing. Fair play to 'em I say.
Match of the Glastonbury
Cotton: So what did you think of U2's performance?
Radcliffe: The rhythm section were criminal - i've never seen such a lack of communication between bass player and drummer. Time and again they were caught napping
Cotton: what about Bono?
Laverne: Well, we saw both sides of him today. Here's an example of his undoubted skill (shows clip of singing) but here we see the totally cynical side (shows Bono pontificating). It's a sad part of modern pop music
Whiley: He doesn't need to do that sort of thing does he?
Cotton: Here's a clip of The Edge playing guitar. Always very professional and competent.
Radcliffe: Well, you can't dispute his quality but there's always a lack of passion.
Cotton: turning to the next act - Oasis. Talk of internal tensions in the camp?
Laverne: I think these things are overhyped by the media. 90 minutes on the stage they'll be focused on the job in hand
Whiley: Well, i disagree, it's always easy to niggle Liam Gallagher and opponents pick up on this.
Cotton (gives Gary Lineker style winning smile): That's all from Glastonbury this week, the day that we saw a wonder performance from Jay-Z and more crowd trouble at the phone-charging tent
Needs more
vuvuzela.
Very funny, Mr Plugg!
So glad I wasn't eating porridge while reading that; I'd be scraping it out of my sinuses for a week.
Mark Cooper /BBC Responds!
Veteran of the Word Magazine podcast in the past and the man in charge of the BBC TV Glastonbury coverage addresses a lot of these issues in a blog post talking about this years festival: rights issues , what bands allow you to show, and why the BBC can't cover every stage.
http://bit.ly/glastobbctv
and likewise Paul Rodgers who does the same but for 6music.
http://bit.ly/glasto6music
Don't forget that a lot of the BBC coverage these days is online with live streaming and tracks on demand for up to a week and beyond.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcmusic/glastonbury/
I can answer 2 questions though.
@humphreyplugg . Fearne Cotton isn't part of the BBC Glastonbury coverage this year but yes Mark Radcliffe, Lauren Laverne and Jo Whiley are.
The 6music truck is actually, this year at least, just behind the Pyramid Stage.
( disclaimer: Sorry this is a bit of plug and i, you've probably guessed, work for the BBC,)
Rufus Hound
Did you see the Isle of Wight Festival presenters? Thank god Glastonbury's not on ITV!!! Hound, Berry and someone else were awful.
Furthermore, I saw Rufus at a comedy event in Nottingham last week. As if trying to release himself from the shackles of his new primetime, comedy dancing identity he proceeded to spout out 30mins of filth and 'controversy'.
He thought he was Bill Hicks/Lenny Bruce - he was closer to Chubby Brown on a bad night.
---------
The BBC should reform the OGWT dream team of Hepworth and Ellen for Glasto!!!
He's got a kid's show on CBBC
called 'Hounded' where he plays a TV presenter called, er, Rufus Hound.
It's bloody awful. Even my kids find it a bit insulting. (Not to question the discernment of my kids, but, well... they'll watch pretty much anything...)
In fairness
We are lucky to have a public service broadcaster who has the resources to cover the festival in the detail it does so we will just have to put up with the grinning
There is also a bit of jealousy - despite any protestations to the contrary who wouldn't want to be there on a weekend like this
Agreed.
Earlier I was wondering why I'm slightly fed up about the blanket coverage of Glastonbury when I'm not about the blanket coverage of the World Cup, even though I like music more than I like football, and will definitely be watching as much of Glastonbury as I can. And I came to the conclusion that it was exactly that -- jealousy.
I honestly wouldn't...
it is not my idea of fun. So much nicer to sit at home with a coffee and gasper and have the remote control handy to turn over should any landfill indie crop up.
If people tune in to watch Glastonbury...
... they're not really going to want presenters banging on about how awful it is, surely?
It's probably not helpful to liken a music presenter to a football pundit. They're very different things, and Mark Radcliffe isn't really supposed to be doing the same job as Mark Lawrenson. The Glasto presenters are providing links and introducing bands, not offering up detailed analysis.
glastonbury
its all big fuckin' dogs cock to me - love the music, hate the smug twatface norks that smug their way around it on the coverage - wheres john peel when you need him... oh... yeah....