Entertainment For Lively Minds
If I Said You Had A Beautiful Body Would You Hold It Against Me?
I heard this country-tinged pop confection from yesteryear on the radio this morning (Simon Bates' Golden Hour on Smooth FM - 9am, a not to be missed top-of-the-lungs way-to-work singalong), and I fondly recalled how once the charts were littered with country pop songs.
But not anymore.
When did this die out? At one time you couldn't move for Billie Jo Spears, Buffy Sainte Marie, Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton, Ray Stevens, Tammy Wynette, Charlie Rich, Jim Reeves, Don Williams, Crystal Gayle, Glen Campbell, et al cluttering up the charts. They may not have had millions of hits, but country pop was always represented somewhere, especially in the 1970s. Not so much in the 1980s but it was still knocking about and continued to do so for quite some time after that.
What's changed? I couldn't hum a country hit today if I tried, and probably the last artist to hit the charts who you could really consider to be country was Shania Twain, and that was years ago.
So why is it no longer crossing over here anymore? Lady Antebellum gave it a go recently, but it seemed few were interested. Is everyone now exclusively listening to pure pop, faux folk, rap and R n B?
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Because...
...the overwhelming majority of people who carry the torch for country right now seem to have forgotten the all-important detail of tunes. And are tedious beardy bastards. And call it "Americana" or alt.country because apparently they're embarrassed by the term "country". And frankly, it's impossible to be any good if you're embarrassed by what you do or are striving for some spurious notion of credibility.
That's why.
< / predictable irritating rant >
Not really
It's just that the singles market is dominated by the genres you listed.
Narrowcasting
The much-maligned Smashie'n'Nicey era of Radio One in the '70s played a much broader range of music than R1 or R2 do today. It'd be interesting to compare a playlist of, say, a "Diddy" David Hamilton show in 1975 and a Jo Whiley show from last year.
Bang on the money, there
It's stupidly reductionist just to dismiss all the SnN folks out of hand. Mike Read introduced me (not personally, I couldn't have got down to London) to all manner of New Wave and post-punk rarities. Not knowing what might be coming next actually used to be pleasurable. DLT was a cunt, mind.
Aah Mike Read
our moral guardian through the eighties. Without him I may have heard the word 'bum' in a song once.
Praise be.
Sure, he blew it...
..because back then in particular, DJs very easily ended up with a ludicrous sense of power/entitlement/grandiosity. Nicky Campbell arguably just about came back from the brink on that score. BUT that doesn't detract from Read's earlier influence, from Street Heat on Radio Luxembourg to his pre-Peel evening show on Radio One. Dismiss him entirely, and we're going down the road of dismissing Rod Stewart because of Da Ya Think I'm Sexy.
Nicky Campbell isn't back from anything, is he?
I'd assume he'd be near the top of anyone's UK Celebrity Twat list, but perhaps I haven't correctly gauged the public mood.
Believe me...
the public mood is with you all the way as regards that self-regarding pompous twat. Please take an up.
Bob, discussion at next mingle?
In two posts you have completely dismissed Americana and decided Nicky Campbell is a celebrity twat. As a lover of Americana I take issue - it is not and has never purported to be the same as Country Pop - if it was I wouldn't listen to it.
Campbell is a pretty intelligent DJ and I don't understand why he is labelled a celebrity twat. His work on 5 live is pretty decent - not the best DJ in the world but I wouldn't have put him down as a twat. I remember many moons ago I compiled end of year best ofs for his night time slot on Radio 1 and to be honest they were far better than the drivel served up by John Peel who is rightly classed as a champion of music yet if we are really honest the majority of the music he played was a pile of crap.
Typo
Sorry - he compiled playlists not I. Teach me to proof read before submitting.
I'm a great fan of Radio5Live
but that doesn't stop me being irritated by Nicky Campbell. I find him pompous, condescending, too-clever-by-half and nowhere near as funny as he thinks he is.
For the record, I can't stand Alan (I'm always right) Green either.
Alan Green
I always though Green was an utter twunt too. Then I listened to the TalkSport commentary on the Arsenal / Man United game last weekend and realised just how good he is at his job compared to the morons on that station.
We should probably judge Campbell in the same way: not great compared with the other (generally very good) presenters on R5L, but a colossus of the airwaves compared to what's available elsewhere.
I've never heard TalkSport
so I only compare him to the others on R5L & local radio.
My main problem with Al Green is that I can't decide which is his best album. If you put a gun to my head I'd say Call Me.
Don't take it personally, Steve.
I daresay you'd probably dismiss some of the stuff I really like - it's just a matter of taste, isn't it? I wouldn't be offended at all if the shoe was on the other foot, but I apologise if I've inadvertently bruised your feelings. Not in the least bit intentional.
I'm a pop fan. Always have been. I've quoted it before, but The Pipettes once sang something I entirely sympathise with: "I just wanna move / I don't care what the song's about". Much of the Americana I've heard of late seems to have delusions of "authenticity" or worthiness, and that always gets my back up. And it's pretty ubiquitous at the moment - that and cod-folk - so my back is up quite a bit.
My feelings about Nicky Campbell date from that godawful Jerry Springeresque shit-fight he compèred on ITV in the 90s. I forget its name - was it Central Weekend? That and Watchdog. Frankly anyone who works on Watchdog - let alone acts as main host - is pretty likely to rocket to the top of my celebrity twat list. (See also Robinson, A)
Bob, my tongue was firmly in cheek re
the Americana/Country thing. I actually think Americana as a term is far too broad - it can encompass everything from TV on the Radio to Felice Brothers to Dave Alvin to Emmylou Harris. If you read the recent interviews with Emmylou she moved away from the Nashville scene because it was too stifling, the same with Steve Earle. Lyle Lovett started as country but moved to Big Band. My perception of the term Americana is that it relates to any left field American music that is outside of the mainstream country or Classic rock that is beloved of the commercial radio stations in the USA. To be honest if an artist is dismissed by the country hierarchy in Nashville it is a pretty good signal that it is someone worth listening too.
Going back to the original post I think the decline in Country pop is because less people want to play the sanitised bullshit that the Nashville bigwigs think is still the way to go. Wake up guys there is much more interesting stuff out there. As an aside I don't think Buffy Ste. Marie was ever country was she?
Re Nicky Campbell - you are quite right re his television work - generally a pile of poo. As a radio presenter I dont think he is that bad.
Certainly no offence taken Bob.
Malfunctioning ironyometer.
Sorry, Steve, missed the tone of your post totally. My bad.
Buffy Sainte Marie
She was country.
In my book
that more than justifies it. Not keen on any kind of censorship or people telling me what they think I should or should not be spending my time doing.
Especially if they wear ridiculous red glasses.
Rod gets away with it because when I think of him I think of the Faces, when I think of Mike Read I think of his arrogance (and his specs)
You sure he blew it?
I thought he tried to get that sort of thing banned?
Brad Paisley
His lyrics are funny, he has good tunes, he can play guitar
Back in the day this could have been a novelty hit that gets him airplay here
..plus
he's great live
He also seems to be keen to extend his market over here - last year he played Shepherd's Bush, this year its the O2.
His brother, Doug Paisley,....
...is a lot better
and he can build life size models of himself. I thought it was just me that did that.
Too many distribution channels.
When country "crossed over" it was at a time when most people listened to the same radio stations and watched the same tv channels so nearly everyone listened to the "same music" ie the Top 40. The music charts were important too and people bought it in the same format ie vinyl as oppposed to streaming, downloads etc. Nowadays people's listening is specialised via radio, internet and satellite so quirky songs don't get played or catch the public's imagination as happened in the past.
This would have been a hit here in the 70s/80s.
Brad is a great talent and a big star in the US but who has heard of him here?
Me, I've heard of him
And he can check me for ticks anytime.
Lady Antebellum
Are they supposed to be country?? I had no idea. They just appeared from nowhere (as far as I was concerned) last year with that drab song I Run To You. They are about as country as Shania Twain's That Don't Impress Me Much, ie at homeopathic levels of coutry-ness. Even the picture of them on their wikipedia entry seems to bear this out: they look about as country as Soft Cell.
A recent example of an unmistakably country record is Mary Gauthier's absolutely stunning The Foundling, just about the best record I heard last year. For those unfamiliar, it's all about adoption in general, her adoption specifically, and her search for her biological mother. This song, March 11 1962, has a visceral impact on me. I'm at work now and daren't listen to it all the way through, as I might lose it.
Five Centres!
I have been singing Dr Hook songs for the last two hours in the office because of this thread.
I think it is quite a good thing, my colleague seems less sure. But then I did have to spend 10 minutes explaining who Dr Hook were. And I did it by singing 'You Make My Pants Want To Get Up And Dance' so she is still slightly traumatised.
*whistles Sylvia's Mother*
This should keep you going all afternoon
Maracas!
I've go more money
than a horse has hairs
My father,
a usually kinder spirited man you'd have trouble finding, saw a poster advertising a forthcoming concert tour by Dennis Locorriere ("The Voice of Dr. Hook") and muttered, "I was hoping that bearded fucker would have succumbed to drugs or something by now."
All this Dr Hook talk...
... and whither Sylvia's Mother?????
Me and my hilarious friends used to sing extremely overdone versions of this when drunk. Seriously, you would have found us hysterical.
I ain't as good as I once was
I've got a real soft spot for what they call 'hat acts' or 'new country' which is very popular on the radio in the States. Loads of songs about beer, women and cars, with no small amount of humour and emotion. Check out this beauty...
Also see this kind of a thing...
Me too
See Brad Paisley homage
In the past I've not been that successful with Hat acts (apart from Brad). I've tried, Randy, Garth, Clint, McGraw etc but often been disappointed and have ended up more with the ladies - Suzy Boggus, Patty Loveless, Martina McBride etc (plus they're prettier and you can hear it in their voices...)
This is my favourite Loveless song
Interested in the Toby song - what others would you recommend Art?
If I can jump in
can I recommend this?
Toby Keith did a very brief tour here abour 18 months ago, which must of been a loss leader for him. We saw him in Glasgow and he was excellent. He said during the show that this song seemed to have captured people's attention here.
More Toby
He's great but the videos, not so much.
GB
I love I Wanna Talk About Me, I'd love to try that at karaoke!
Is that Glenn Beck in the video playing Toby's mate?
Did pop-country commit suicide?
Achey Breaky Heart, Billy Ray Cyrus
Young at Heart, The Bluebells
Dance the Night Away, The Mavericks.
No genre could take that.
Bluebells?
I've never considered The Bluebells to be country.
The Bluebells
were so much better than that awful novelty hit - South Atlantic Way, Syracuse University, Everybody's Somebody's Fool, all great guitar pop but they're remembered as the YAHH.
I prefer to remember them this way ....
you led me up the garden path whooah whoa
If I never hear
that Mavericks song again it'll be too soon. A staple of Chris Evans' all-request Friday.
Murrance, I think....
....you forgot "Man I Feel Like A Woman".
*staggers to the door, vomit leaking from between fingers*
Oh my.
Yes and I think my brain was doing me a favour. I'd already done myself over by getting Young at Heart stuck in my head for the afternoon goddamn bloody catchy why I oughta.
And no, they probably aren't Country but they did flagrantly wield a fiddle in that song and I seem to remember the video featuring haybales.
*dusts hands off smugly*
Lest we forget...
I'm starting to regret going down this path
Just when you think it can't get worse than Shania Twain...
Radios 1 & 2
Radio 1 has always been enormously influential on the singles chart. Back in the seventies, Radio 2 was a very different beast to today and a lot of what would now be played on R2 would have once been shoehorned onto R1. The more radio stations there are, the more "specialist' they become and the singles chart is basically the specialist chart for the sorts of music played on radio 1.
Faith
Hill has had some hits after Shania Twain, but I'm not sure how country she really is...
Times change
I think when she was first around, she was very country indeed, (in much the same way as Shania Twain was) but the pop chart success only came when she went a bit more MOR.
There were two versions
of Come on Over. The US version was much more country; the British version was remixed to give it more of a pop feel.
Isn't country music
all about dead dogs?
"Rhinestone Cowboy"
What a song.
When I hear that song I just feel good.
Can't ask for more than that really.
Oh my granny is a cripple in Nashville...
Garth Brooks didn't help the pop country cause much either
Also reminds me of a joke by comedian Dennis Miller about watching The Country And Western Awards on tv and thinking how they should have a category for Best Use Of A Stetson To Conceal A Bald Patch
I really like country music.
But the country I tend to like is yer sort of Flying Burrito Brothers / Sun-era Johnny Cash, Hank Williams kind of thing, and the really ancient country-gospel stuff like the Carter Family. As far as I can tell, modern mainstream country very rarely throws up anything that isn't actively nauseating, and my views on the majority of "Americana" and "alt country" are well documented (in précis: shaaaaaaaameful shit).
So occasionally you need to do what I did yesterday and go back and listen to The Gilded Palace Of Sin, because it's absolutely and COMPLETELY glorious.
Me too
My high-spot is probably Sweetheart of the Rodeo, but I must investigate the Burritos more.
Not sure it's completely worth it.
Gram left, and nothing Burritos after Gilded Palace is any more than OK, IMO. After that, he went on to make GP and Grievous Angel, so he's the man to follow.
There's so much Alt. Country/Americana that's great IMHO.
Bonnie 'Prince' Billy, Jim White, Giant Sand just off the top of my head. However, I'm not sure who first decided to start using these names- journalists maybe? To be fair, it's a modern off-shoot of trad. country with often a folky feel so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it would be referred to as something different surely?
Also, I wonder which acts produce this "shameful shit" of which you speak Bob? I've never got the impression that any of these artists are embarrassed or ashamed of the music they make; indeed why would they be?
Wire usage.
I was channelling Clay Davis from The Wire. It just means "bad".
For the record, I like Giant Sand and Will Oldham a lot, but there seem to be a ton of artists around more lately who consider possession of a beard and a banjo to be a reasonable substitute for decent tuneful songs.
For more details, see a large proportion of tracks on the Word CDs in the last year or so. ;-)
The prosecution rests, m'lud...
As with any genre there's always going to be rubbish, for sure.
I'm pleased to hear that you like Giant Sand & BPB.
You really don't like beards though do you? :)
Speaking from experience...
... the vast majority of so-called alt.country acts absolutely hate that particular tag. And yes, a beard and a banjo does not automatically make for a good tune. However, when certain bands do get it right (see The Handsome Family, Howe Gelb, The Felice Brothers, Will Oldham), it's American folk music in its purest and most delectable form.
Without....
...wishing to be a *total* dick (but it's me, so some dickishness is inevitable) it's the "pure" bit that irks me. I like many of the artists you mention, but I'm not at all interested in the extent to which the genre seems happy to mine the past.
How it should be done
Brad Paisley is fine but Toby Keith is just awful. This is how it's done
Only Wayne 'The Train'
is the real deal these days. Ask Hank Jr and Hank III.