is their 'heroes' behaving in the same way as them.
The more it appears that musicians are 'just the same as us' rather than 'special beings from another planet' the more devalued music will become.
Btw, what facts do you have to support your claim that OkGo are 'potless' ?

that I use public transport, how very dare you. I want my rock stars rich, opulent and extravagant if they're not well maybe they're not very good and should get a proper job, like the rest of us.

We seem further away than ever of resolving this one.

There seems to be a overwhelming consensus among the Freetards that all musicians, whether it is Robin Hitchcock or the bass player from Grizzly Bear, enjoy a lifestyle comparable to that of Elton or Queen circa 1986. How many of the same Freetards are probably doing courses in Sound Engineering, or Advanced Rock Star Studies at Uni and haven't considered how this will impact on their own future pop career.

I don't think bands and musicians should live like lords though, and if the days of bands straddling the globe in private jets and snorting Bugle off the thighs of Pan's People are over then fine (although the rock biographies of the future may be a tad duller). But I do think a musician ought to be entitled to a few bob and if they make good records, play gigs and entertain us then they ought to at least earn as much as say a supply teacher of trainee estate agent.
A lot of new bands already look like buskers who need a good meal as it is, a lot of them certainly can't afford razorblades.

Why not?

I don't think people have a right to free music - but if you see a fiver on the pavement, you will probably pocket it and spend it on sweets. But most of us know that this is not how you get money to buy sweets. It is in this spirit that many people take free downloads or films on DVD from your mate in IT.

I guess the "freetards" (not sure I like the word...) must be the kind of people that expect a fiver to be there on the pavement every day. But I don't know many people like that.

So my thought is that attempts to make people feel guilty on this issue are always rendered impotent by the immediate association with wealth that people have re pop/rock music.

Stop dropping fivers on the floor and then the problem will disappear.

cruising around in a big ass, cushy tour bus all year long is a) the definition of life on the hog; and b) a desireable way of life.

Let's for a minute leave aside the inconvenient point that at some time the cruising has to stop and such trivial things as writing more songs, rehearsing them, playing them to an audience, recording them, publicising them and attending to all manner of music business stuff has to be done.

Let's also assume the band members don't have a family they want to see from time to time, much less a steady relationship to maintain, and that they don't have a home with bills to be paid that requires them to be somewhere other than on a foggy, bumpy obscure Belgian motorway at 2am on a Saturday morning.

I suspect that too many people have been seduced and/or misled by "Britains Got X Factor on Ice" tales of £1 million pound contracts and get rich quick myths to see the real life behind the hard slog that's required to get into a position where an elite few acts can take it comfortably.

As most people don't know (but I bet we all do) - the band are ultimately paying for that tour bus.

See the blog post from Too Much Joy http://www.toomuchjoy.com/?p=1397,
explaing how after a decade of minor success they owe the record company a third of a million. Which digital sales is reducing by about $10 per year.

I saw TMJ supporting the Mighty Lemondrops in the USA (which tells you how big they weren't) and they were great fun. But never rich.

BTW, like many people I travel a lot for work. Hotels and planes are fun for the first year. After that, they are just places you work in. Again, most people don't seem to realise that.

Flawed only by the excess baggage that musicians have to cart around with them.

That'll be the drummer with kit.

Here all week. Try the Saltimboco and Chips.

I perceive rock/pop music as a young man's game partly due to it being the music of my youth but also because it's easier to live on sunshine, fresh air and not a lot else when you're young.

Rock music has always been a young person's game. If they are lucky they will be able to convert a hobby they do at school/Uni into something that delays the onset of real life. All they need is enough to pay their rent (or mother) and the costs of living on a par with a student; they will get this by playing live and getting the odd expenses here and there and maybe something from record companies. They can get state benefits for a while too.

It's a gamble because their school/Uni mates are into a career and they are not, unless they strike it big. If they fail, then the band collapses and real life begins aged 25. It's like an extended gap year but with more sex and a lot more ego fulfillment. And certainly there is ample enough time to catch up your Uni colleagues and develop a 'normal' career.

Young folks - go for it!

...or what little I have is...

a) hanging around shabby subterranean studios round the back of Piccadilly station whilst the lead guitarist tries and fails to nail his part to his own satisfaction ("Ooh more flange I think"). At 8am. On a Sunday. Cos it's cheap. Ooh look, a rat!

b) Irritating habits becoming more and more magnified by this time spent together. Factions developing. Pencils being thrown on Christmas Eve ("Write it down!")

c) Nobody turning up at gigs (we weren't great, but we weren't bad). Lead singer having a crisis,tearing up the set list, getting shedded before a gig and eventually sounding like Demis Roussos channelling the spirit of Charles Hawtrey.

d) Muso-types who are technically brilliant but can't work out a chord-change or hear a wrong note. Hey, I'm only a drummer, what do I know. Well, I know it's E major not Em.

e) Yes, e, not e minor.

f) The drummer moaning all the sodding time ;-)

Great post, DH.

As someone partial to a bit of OK Go, I've been following their Twitter stream and website around the release of their new album. I bought their last album in the CD format. The new one, I just Spotified onto my phone. That song that the record company won't let them embed the video of? Why it's FREE on the CD given away with this month's mighty Word! They say the video can't be embedded off YouTube? This is true, but OK Go have an embeddable version over on Vimeo. Here it is...

OK Go - This Too Shall Pass from OK Go on Vimeo.

With Spotify, free Word track and Vimeo vid, it's hard to see OK Go living high on the hog. I'd be amazed if they're on a major by Christmas. They're managed by the guy who manages They Might Be Giants, who have defined how to stay creative and successful after being dropped by a major over the last 10 years, so hopefully they'll be ok.

http://www.list.co.uk/article/23083-fence-winter-tour-king-creosote-inte...

King Creosote saying it how it is.

"Since 2005, I’ve watched my profile go up, my record sales go down, and my live audiences go down – despite there being more copies of my records on computers."

May be a bitch, but it hasn't stopped nearly every band that ever existed from reforming now that record sales have plummeted.

That ticket prices have risen in line with record sales decreasing.
You now pay for a third division band what you used to fork over for a top act.

It never ceases to amaze me how whenever the subject of piracy comes up the attention is perpetually focused on teh four pimply youth who may or may not be living high on the hog. Whether you like it or not the music industry is just that : an industry. That means it currently employs everyone from accountants to roadies, freelance photographers to carpenters. Someone out there must have the figures for the amount of people dependent on the music industry for a living. I'de love to see them. I'de especially love to see the diversity of jobs and skills involved in maintaining the whole process.
I can't see anyway out of it other than punitive legislation. You can't rely on peoples morals. One of my best mates is a senior producer and abhors music piracy yet came home from holidays boasting of having picked up some counterfeit luggage for a song! Go figure!

As someone who has completed several adventures as a tour manager, there is one very good reason for having a tour bus - it keeps all your little darlings in one place. I don't think I'd trust many touring musicians to be able to manage public transport. It's hard enough getting them all from the B&B rooms, down the stairs, along the path and into the van on time, never mind giving them the opportunity to get properly lost.

Well Jason Spaceman does (I sat opposite him last year) - lovely chap, gave me a salute when I was nearly blubbling about what a big fan I am.

I've also seen Richard Jobson on the train, but he's not so much of a draw for me.

I once bumped into Max Bygraves at Leeds station where he was waiting for a train to London. Pleasant enough chap.

She was twittering to the point of irritation about which way she should go and what train she should get to get to Leicester Square. She looked like a total fish out of water. I know she likes to think she's a bit of a woman of the people but she's clearly not got the Tube for years but thought she'd try it to be like any other 'ordinary' person.

I wondered why she wasn't being like a normal celeb and getting a cab.

Which is why rock stars taking the bus would never work. Once people get a sniff of fame they get a driver or taxis as they think they're a bit special because everyone tells them this is so. So they can't cope with being among the public. They think they're above it all. And when they try to show they're just like you and me it just gets embarrassing.

At the height of his fame, I recall him saying that he still used the bus. When pestered by the public, he would ask them to consider whether Andrew Ridgely from Wham would be travelling on a bus? These days of course, the answer is yes - but things were different in the 80s.

no-one's mentioned this yet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8339710.stm