....but I would strongly suspect that Costello, Earle, Byrne and Sexsmith make next to nothing from record royalties and rely on playing live and publishing income to make a living. The same thing would apply with Dylan. Kate Bush I couldn't begin to hazard a guess.

There's also the question of the appetite for work. Elvis, Dylan, Springsteen, McCartney and a few others never seem to stop working. People like Kate Bush prefer to spend time at home. That's her prerogative. And she probably doesn't have thousands of dependents like many people have.

The thing you can never factor in is the odd windfall that might come in the shape of a tune being used in a movie or a commercial. That's the payday every artist is praying for. We were discussing in the office the likelihood that the Duckworth Lewis Method record will make far more money for Neil Hannon than the Divine Comedy ever have done because some of those tunes will be used in TV coverage of cricket for as long as the game is played.

... "Division 2" if you like. I'm not a fan, but (for instance)Shed Seven never seem to stop touring - I wonder if being an S7 member in the noughties is scraping a living, or equivalent to a £100k job (or better?)

Two vaguely related articles I remember from the 80's: Firstly a Smash Hits backstage one comparing the simultaneous tours of Wham! and Half Man Half Biscuit, clearly showing that HMHB made far more profit from touring colleges than Wham! did by playing stadiums (though I'm sure the record sales made up for it!) Secondly a Record Mirror one where they got a forensic accountant to go through the numbers for some artists who had set themselves up as companies and therefore had their finances available through Companies House. All I can remember now is that he was very impressed with how China Crisis handled their finances!

And wasn't it in Word where Martin Fry said he still made "six figures" a year from "The Look Of Love" being used in films and ads worldwide? Huge out-of-the-blue paydays include Nick Lowe's from the cover of "Peace Love & Understanding" used in the soundtrack of "The Bodyguard" (but cut from the film!), and 60's band Tomorrow's from Madonna when she "adapted" one of their songs for "Ray Of Light." I think Ian Broudie also got a nice BBC cheque from "The Life Of Riley"'s regular use in "Match Of The Day."

A friend of mine recently had dinner with Mr Chilton and a really nice man he was too, by all accounts. He explained to my friend that despite having some massive US hits in the 60's with the Boxtops he was made financially secure when one of his songs(That he Co-Wrote,unlike the big hits)"In The Street!" was used as a theme to the TV show."That 70's show.
With his he was able to do gigs where he would normally make next to nothing,in this case, a small festival in Bologna.

For many groups the one route to milking old repertoire is to re-record old hits for release on a motley crew of cut-price CDs. The hits with "original artists", last seen in garages and supermarkets.

Although you might not give these a second glance many of them are appearing on Spotify and coming up on searches. How many can spot the difference? Not really different from Mike Oldfield re-re-recording Tubular Bells again.

are wonderful, but I’ve never understood how they’ve kept going.
When they released lots of records they didn’t sell. Now they release a record every 5 years or so and they sell even less.
Far as I’m aware their music isn’t clogging up adverts/TV programmes/soundtracks etc. They tour a fair amount, playing pretty small venues and the odd festival, but they’re not always on the road.
I always assumed they must do something else in the ever increasing gaps between records. Yet in an interview I saw recently Gerry Love said he’d only ever worked – outside being a musician - for about 3 months his whole life. Where’s the money come from?

that tells you how many copies of records / CDs have been sold? And radio plays?

that there is an accepted policy of playing down the actual income that your mid to lower table artists are earning? I'm sure they have all received advice from financial experts who will suggest that they play the 'poor me' card whenever possible, for all sorts of reasons that the rest of us who aren't financial experts wouldn't think of.
There was a thread here recently in which someone had reprinted information from [I think] the PRS which claimed that only 2,000 UK songwriters earn a living from royalties. Which seems incredible, but what figure constitutes 'a living' in this case? £20,000? £50,000? £100,000? It's very subjective.

Could have legs...but stick with writing The Wit & Wisdom of Peter Andre & Katie Price. That's where the money is.

...is that these are not salaried employees. They may have one year in which they do well followed by many years when they do not so well.

back in about 1999, when Spiritualized were reasonably popular, Jason Pierce claiming that he was only earning about £12,000 a year. Mind you, they were staging one-off gigs in strange places at the time, and they probably cost a fair few quid to arrange. Didn't they play the CN Tower or similar?

I know Ron and he almost certainly earns less than most readers of The Word. He makes enough to be a full time musician and that's about it. Also never got the big payday of one massive song unlike his friend Nick Lowe.

"chicks for free" though saves on rounds of baby cham and half pound boxes of Blackmagic from the newsagent.

make money for the artist when one of their songs is played?

If so, could the artist programme Spotify to play their own songs on rotation?

from Companies House, any artist who runs themselves through a company will have their details there.

So, for example, we find:

NICK LOWE LIMITED
20 BULSTRODE STREET
LONDON
W1M 5FR
Company No. 01517755

Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business: 9231 (Artistic & literary creation)

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 17/09/1980
Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2007
Next Accounts Due: 31/10/2009
Last Return Made Up To: 06/12/2008
Next Return Due: 03/01/2010

XTC and the Blue Nile for their lack of activity and almost non-existent airplay. How have they survived? I know Partridge runs his own label now, but what of Colin? The same goes for the Nile, I know Buchanan writes stuff and occasionally gets covered, but what of the rest of them?

Is that how Andy and Colin survive ? I know Partridge earned more from his Fuzzy Warbles than he did from the whole of his XTC virgin back catalogue !

I think it is a ridiculous state of affairs when the artists who have provided so much joy and happiness in peoples lives don't get their fair share of money.

It seems to go more to accountants and managers than the artists themselves,of course there are rich exceptions but I don't think musicians generally get their fair due in terms of income.

One other point is the pleasure music gives is not in relation to the amount paid for example
probably my favourite album is Out Of The Blue by ELO released in 1977 after my initial outlay of money for the lp I have had over 30 years of pleasure from that one album which seems a good deal. I am not suggesting you pay everytime you listen just making the point that music can provide almost infinite pleasure for a small outlay.

Maybe musicians should be paid according to the amount of social worth they provide or pleasure not just their financial luck as seems the case now.

On that basis XTC would be multi millionaires as far as I am concerned.

Here's an interesting article (it's probably been linked to from here at some point before) by one of the guys in the Broken Family Band, about the realities of playing in a band that's achieved a certain level of success but not enough to give up your day job.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/jul/06/popandrock1

(As an aside, the incident at the Borderline to which he alludes occurred when the BFB were booked as 'special guests' of the band I play in, who were headlining that night. I didn't see said incident, but the BFB turned up very late - just as the venue was opening - and were miffed at not getting a soundcheck! Toys proceeded to be thrown out of the pram on both sides. All rather childish and self-defeating.)

The money people make in any job is always interesting, but I am also curious about the type of careers rock musicians have these days.

I suppose I tend to think of rock music as being made up of bands who more or less always have the same personnel until they call it a day. But after fifty odd years of rock music there must be a lot of musicians around who are available for either live or studio work with other acts. Is this how a lot of people who aren’t the big names actually make the majority of their living? And do musicians who are now starting out, now see this as a valid career path – the jobbing musician rather than stardom. For example, when Duffy tours, who are the people backing her? Is this something they fit in with their own bands, or are they always gigging behind someone else. Do rock musicians teach, as so many classical and jazz players do?

It would be interesting to see some interviews with musicians at different ends of the spectrum about how their careers work out.

are the chaps like Cook & Greenaway. I suspect they earn more from certain songs in a year than the average member of the Massive banks in the same time frame.

.
Men At Work face plagiarism case

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8175974.stm

"A music publisher that says Australian band Men At Work stole a melody from a children's song in hit Down Under has won the first stage of a court battle.

Larrikin claims the flute riff from the 1981 hit is stolen from Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree, written by Marion Sinclair for the Girl Guides in 1934."

The flute riff for f***s sake? Shades of The Verve...

How I laughed in 1997 when I read that Bowie had raked in $55m on this bond scheme - where he basically sold the rights to all future royalties on his LPs up to 1990.

I thought that this was ridiculous. My call at the time was he's sold 95% of all the records he's ever going to. I may have been wrong about that (biased as I'm not a fan, fond as I am of the Dame) but - isn't Bowie one of those sold-less-than-you-think artists? From today's vantage point we wrongly tend to think of him being equivalent in success to Elton John.

I looked up how many albums Bowie's sold on Google. The claim is 130 million worldwide. Excuse my French - but no f***ing way is this true. For perspective - read here about Michael Jackson's
claimed 750 million worldwide sales. Actual numbers: 131 million by 2004. Abba have sold 100 million.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124760651612341407.html

In this context, Bowie sold, what 20 million? He's probably never earned $55m and his records probably never will. (Do I even need to mention illegal downloads?)

The bonds are now rated at "Baa3, one notch above junk status" (source Wikipedia).

I'm happy to be proved wrong about any of this by the way. I don't actually know what I'm talking about.

Bowie Bonds were the ultimate cause of the recession:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2009/01/12/david-bowie-s-back-catalo...

... is listening to the comments of Mark Lamarr or his replacement as the mystery guest trudges off 'Never Mind The Buzzcocks' to the baffled applause of the audience thinking 'Who?'

Lamarr - 'currently propping up a cardboard box on the Strand, the former singer of 4 six packs and a fat bloke'

or ...

Lamarr - 'still playing bass in the Truffle Snorters as they tour on the 45th anniversary re-union tour, catch 'em at the Queens Head, Moss Side, Tuesday at 7pm'

I might be right in thinking a lot of stars in the days of 7" singles made quite a bit writing the b-sides. Lots of bands whose a-sides were written by well known songwriters (Chinn/Chapman for instance) or relied on cover versions (Shakin Stevens for instance) would pen the b-side. By doing this they received basically the same royalty as the songwriters who wrote their top 10 or No.1 hit. Quite a clever way of making money when they basically couldn't write a song to save their lives.
Although The Sweet wrote a couple of good 'uns.

I also remember Gerry Marsden getting a huge cheque through the post because Frankie recorded Ferry Cross The Mersey on the b-side of Relax. And unfortunately for Colin Moulding, Robbie Williams recorded Making Plans For Nigel on the b-side of one of his early singles that wasn't a huge hit.

I wrote a song about 10 years ago which does moderately well on compilations to this day.

As I didn't have a publishing deal when I wrote the song, I registered it myself with MCPS and PRS.

Most people know about PRS, and are vaguely aware of what it does. But MCPS is more interesting. You need an MCPS licence in order to produce a physical copy of copyrighted music. What that means, in practice, is that I get a statement every now and again outlining a new compilation which is going to use my song.

And on the statement (at least last time I looked), you can also read the songwriting splits (in percentage terms) of every other song on the album. Who wrote how much of what... or more accurately, who ended up being *assigned* how much of what.

Fantastic gossip material!

Except it's strictly confidental. Obviously.

earns anything bewtween £5000 and £10,000 a month from the royalties of There She Goes, depending on what you read and who you speak to. I remember reading something about 15 years ago which said that Andrew Ridgeley raked in similar amounts every month because George Michael had given him a co-writing credit on Careless Whisper. That one big hit is all you need.....

Thinking back to my youth, it was usual for a group to write the 'B' side if they didn't do the 'A'. That way all sales were relative and money was made if the 'A' was a hit.
Groups such as The Searchers may have had No.1's with cover songs , but they always wrote the flipside. Pretty good they were and still form part of their act today.

I missed BJ's comment as I scrolled the list - you were the first to mention it.
The Searchers still wrote great 'B' sides though!

The main character is able to do nothing at all because his father wrote a recurringly popular Christmas song and the income keeps flooding in. It did make me wonder how substantial Noddy Holder and Roy Wood's annual boost to their income is. And George Michael - but did Barry Manilow end up getting that? I don't remember.

if Walking On Sunshine was written by 1 person i very much suspect they'd have be as good as millionaires by now.

interesting thread from I Love Music website a few years back
'Rock Stars Who Went Back To Work':

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&thre...

A few years ago, Ian Anderson said that he aims to earn at least a million pounds a year from music, of which he pays himself a salary of 250,000.

This seems like a decent sum for someone whose (quote big) back catalogue probably doesn't shift vast numbers but who tours quite extensively still.

Katrina's wave at the Pension pot was guitarist Kimberly Rew.Also wrote the Bangles covered track that was the 'B' side of the 'Walking on Sunshine'.

Marcella Detroit has a half credit on Eric Clapton's "Lay down Sally"
At the time that Shekespeare's Sister were making themselves known I remember her saying that that credit earned her about £30,000 a year.
This was mostly from radio play rather than sales.
As radio stations move through their "golden" periods -"Sound of the sixties"," Golden oldies from the seventies" and now the Eighties to keep their older demographic listening, it becomes a moneypot for the songwriters, however shortlived.
You hardly ever hear "Lay down Sally" played these days. Wonder what's taken its place?
Another interesting one is "Happy Birthday" We've all heard the stories of the insane protectionism surrounding that song and why you never hear is sung at parties in movies. Would love to know how much it earns per annum!

...discussed this in a Daily Mail article about women who earn more than their husbands. Apparently he still makes £60,000 a year, but this is compared to £250,000 / year when Kayleigh was riding high. Article can be found here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-416697/The-women-earning-doubl...

I had reason to see a PRS statement for a member of James. I'm not sure how often these are produced, possibly 6 monthly, but his was £600. This was late '90s, certainly after their heyday, but again they're one of those bands that can rely on Sit Down and Laid getting played on the radio occasionally.

to have minted a few people with "The Spaghetti Incident", not least of all Johnny Thunders who had two songs on the album. I wonder whether Charles Manson gets his royalties as the writer of secret track 13?

once said that he was hugely underpaid for all his efforts in the 60s and hugely overpaid after Graceland. the period he felt most comfortable with was mid 70s where he believed the money earned matched the effort made. This doesn't really address the point of the thread but I do like the notion of being able to reconcile creative endeavour with cash flow!

Await arrival of VERY large cheque.

There's ways of exploiting them teenagers who download your songs for free..

..Down on the Farm was covered on The Spaghetti Incident - surely the biggest earner Charlie Harper ever had since he gave up hairdressing back in 1976?

This is truly a fascinating subject as we are all intrigued by what others earn.

I live in a wealthy area and it is very easy to think that just everyone these days earns £100k plus, as most people I meet around here seem to judging by their lifestyles and houses. But then I only need to go to a provincial shopping centre or a service station on the M1 to be reminded that this is not the case at all.

This is the problem with the music industry - the rich dominate the landscape. And the exceptions appear to be normal - Ridgeley, Mavers, Lowe, Holder etc all mentioned time and again.

What intrigues me is what a "decent income" amounts to. Many above have used this phrase or an equivalent, but just what is that figure in 2009? £120k + car & a 20% bonus? The UK average wage (£25k ish)? The Word Massive average (£50k man)?

As they get older, I suspect bandmembers who can still get by by doing something they love, and not something they have to do, will value that more than the cash they haven't earned.

It always intrigues me that artists that seem to have been around for five minutes and had one or two hits are suddenly swimming in money.

For example I just read Natasha Bedingfield has recently bought a place in LA for a couple of million. I thought she had one hit and then flopped! But that's probably just my ignorance.

I often wonder how much the angular post-punkers have earned over the years after R.E.M. covered Strange on the Green long player. What a slice of fiscal good forture methinks. Did they earn more from the Stipe and company album track than from the rest of their musical careers altogether? I reckon they did.

there is no absolute, God-given reason why rock stars should earn shedloads of dosh. Sure, they may be wonderfully creative but not necessarily more so than poets or authors who often earn very little and have to supplement their income with day jobs even when reasonably successful.