How can 'kids' be so musically well-listened?

In this weekend's Observer Music Monthly, there was a small feature on a new side project the Last Shadow Puppets.

A duo consisting of the Arctic Monkeys' Alex Turner and the Rascals' Miles Kane, apparently their friendship blossomed because of 'a shared love of the way Scott Walker's Jackie "filled the senses".'

Now these two are 22 years old - yup, 22! I'm not suggesting that people that young shouldn't be able to appreciate the likes of Scott Walker. More that I'm always astounded at the musical knowledge of young artists.

OK, I'm not a precocious pop wannabe any more (nor was I ever one), but the stuff I knew about when I was 22 pales into insignificance compared to the likes of Turner and Kane.

Hell, I only properly discovered Scott Walker last year and the tender age of 35.

Am I the only person who is as surprised at this level of knowledge? How do they do it?

And were any other Word-bloggers equally ahead of their peers in musical discovery terms?

It's the advent of music

It's the advent of music download networks and the vast influx of blogging via. the internet.
Finding obscure bands/artists is as easy as eating sherbert.

Liam Hatchet | 19 March 2008 - 12:21am

I don't

believe these guys have a wide musical knowledge at all. I think they just know a few fashionable artists to namedrop.

Johan | 19 March 2008 - 12:25am

And Johan

I think you just may be right.

Springer Bell | 19 March 2008 - 11:35am

I think curiosity has a lot to do with it...

when I was a teenager I was completely devoted to finding out as much as possible about all forms of popular music... I used to buy old issues of the NME, MM and Rolling Stone when I could find them, devoured music books and listened to a hell of a lot of records. Whilst an appreciation of music is in no way a competition, I think I was very knowledgeable for my age back then.

Patrick Crowther | 19 March 2008 - 1:52am

Yep - Curiosity is the key

Agree with you entirely Patrick. I was at my most musically curious around age 15-16 and went off in all kinds of directions. I liked it when John Peel and Andy Kershaw would play the odd blues track, so one day I bought a cheap blues compilation featuring Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf and Bo Diddley among others. That really set me off, and I found myself working backwards to discover the likes of Charley Patton, Robert Johnson and Mississippi John Hurt. Around the same time I also listened to Humphrey Littleton's Monday night jazz show on Radio 2 and was soon buying LP's by Bill Evans, Charlie Parker and a whole stack of Blue Note stuff.

Following the release of the NME C86 compilation I was also getting into a lot of jangly indie pop, which then lead me to discover the likes of The Byrds and The Velvet Underground. Then there were cheap compilations from Def Jam and Charley which lead me to Public Enemy, OV Wright and The Meters.

It was youthful curiosity that drove me to explore all these avenues and genres. These days I still like to discover new artists, but my record buying will never be as eclectic and open-minded as it was back then.

oxfordpaul | 22 March 2008 - 11:02pm

Agree wholeheartedly

I had a massive jazz and blues discovery phase around the same time...

I bought a similar sounding blues compilation to you and got very into the likes of Leadbelly, Howlin' Wolf and it was around the time John Lee Hooker had a resurgence.

I also found a couple of cheapo jazz albums based around instruments, rather than artists, so got into a whole lot of classic stuff at once.

It says a lot for the teenage mind that I've never quite done the same exploration since!

robram | 25 March 2008 - 1:18pm

There was...

...an excellent piece in MOJO a few months back in which Alex Turner demonstrated a broad knowledge and sincere passion for all kinds of music.

backwards7 | 19 March 2008 - 2:06am

Name dropping.....

...is very important at 13, 14, 15 etc, maybe even 51. I began my burden back in about 1969 ploughing thru' the backpages of Melody Maker and NME (and, probably, Record Mirror and Disc), picking up on names as much for their sound and the graphic of their names in the adverts for their shows, inevitably at 100 club or the Roundhouse, I expect. From then I moved to daily afternoons on the headphones at the trendy local record shop (Hello, CASS music of Eastbourne), which had an open policy for juvenile listeners, even when they never bought anything. Whilst listening, one would rifle thru' the sleeves of the stock, and I recall the amazement of reading about Henry the Human Fly ("Bugger, said God...") long before I enjoyed the music on it. And they always had loads of Jefferson Airplane and Frank Zappa, all quickly to fall from my tongue as favourite this or that.
I could have sounded as erudite as those guys, and probably as safe as them too, as, really, does anyone actually listen to Scott Walker? More than once?
And so, what are your influences, Mr Path? Oh, Stoneground and early Blossom Toes.... Yeah, right. (Funnily enough, an expensive habit of mine now is to put those favourite names of yore into i-tunes power search: I have found some, um, interesting stuff.......

Retropath2 | 19 March 2008 - 8:48am

I'm the tender age of...

...21 and I've been reading Word magazine for 5 years, do I get a badge? Anyway, if you truly love music and want to discover, it's never been easier to do your research. I don't know who Alex Turner's trying to impress by name-dropping Scott Walker, it's hardly likely to whet the appetites of the legions of Monkeys fans

Joe R | 19 March 2008 - 9:02am

I blame the parents

Someone like Alex Turner has been brought up by parents who are themselves probably well-steeped in rock'n'roll and in an era when all music from all eras is easily available and accessible. Imagine if, say, a Tim Hardin song was used in an advert and it piqued the curiosity of a teenage music lover. Within a few minutes he or she could find out what it was, do a bit of research and window shopping at Wikipedia, YouTube, Amazon and i-tunes, order it online for next day delivery and have a good knowledge and appreciation of an obscure artist within days.
I remember hearing "Sha La La La Lee" on the radio when I was about 10 or 11 and thinking it was the most exciting record I'd ever heard. I couldn't buy it until about six or seven years later when Virgin put out a Small Faces compilation to cash in on the mod revival.
Things have changed since I was a girl.

Richard Lowe | 19 March 2008 - 10:08am

God help....

....our children.......
I now have my 21 year old pointing me in directions of Headhunters-era Herbie Hancock and Curtis Mayfield. That can't be right!

Retropath2 | 19 March 2008 - 10:14am

It is right ...

... and it's good. Some aspects of modern life are ugly and wrong. But some - not least such easy access to all the treasures of music that is available to our children in a way it simply wasn't to us - are wonderful.
My daughter's had my Sly & The Family Stone greatest hits CD in her bedroom since she was about 8. Not because she's hip or trying to be. But because Dance To The Music was in Shrek.

Richard Lowe | 19 March 2008 - 10:31am

Scott Walker

Actually I did know "Jackie" at age 8 as my Mum was a massive Scott Walker fan, and indeed I still have all the singles - mind you for years having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the great brooder's oeuvre couldn't get you arrested 'till the likes of Bowie and Marc Almond spotted some good ideas to nick in the Brel recordings. I think people latch onto what they want the legend to be, rather than what they actually were - a good half of what SW recorded was MOR shlock, and my Mum used to see him playing at places like Batley Variety Club and the Manchester Golden Garter rather than some Berlin or Paris cellar club surrounded by haunted bohos in black roll neck sweaters.

(Mind you to be fair to Scott he did walk off the stage at one such gig as noone was listening - the scampi was particularly good that night)...

In answer to Retro's question, yes, I do still listen to some of it!

Twangothan | 19 March 2008 - 10:02am

I like having the first 4 solo albums.

Scott Walker is to Marc Almond what Marc Almond is to Max Bygraves.

Vulpes Vulpes | 19 March 2008 - 10:28am

Hey Vulpes, lay off Max

Not least because this seems pretty pertinent to this thread . . .

Richard Lowe | 19 March 2008 - 10:35am

Interesting progression......

Surely a strand in genesis here....
Marillion are to Genesis as Genesis are to??

Retropath2 | 19 March 2008 - 10:38am

to.......

.....King Crimson

Avidfan | 19 March 2008 - 1:07pm

EDIT

EDIT

JJ (not verified) | 20 December 2008 - 10:11am

I discovered Scott at the age of 17

Back in 1995. In fact Jackie was the intro tape to our band for many years.

When I was at school I used to hang out with the uni students, who introducted me to Scott Walker, Nancy Sinatra, Gypsy Kings and so on. Possibly they were trying to be ironic but I loved it all.

Chimney Singing... | 19 March 2008 - 10:55am

As a small child...

...I was rather fond of the old Leadbelly/Carter Family murder ballad John Hardy. My parents didn't have a vast collection of blues/folk/country albums. Manfred Mann recorded a version on the B side of Sha La La.

Seamus | 19 March 2008 - 12:18pm

The Rascals

A few years ago I tour managed Miles Kane's old band The Little Flames (who were supporting the Arctic Monkeys) and was seriously impressed by their tastes on the bus - a healthy osession with the Fall, lots of Link Wray and US nuggets style garage rock. It's a common trait in Liverpool where record collecting seems to take huge significance from an early age. I can't think of many other cities where you see Captain Beefheart grafitti on bus shelters.

Jamie_Bowman | 19 March 2008 - 1:10pm

The Rascals or the Young Rascals?

Given the latter became the former, surely this is a need for Rascals UK or the English Rascals?

Retropath2 | 19 March 2008 - 1:37pm

Correct Retropath2

I thought The Rascals were back with new music. But this lot are not really about Good Lovin' or Groovin'.

Springer Bell | 19 March 2008 - 3:04pm

It is miles easier now

Scott Walker wouldn't have been on my radar when I was at Uni (early/mids 80s) and frankly if I had been curious I'd have had to have taken a punt on a six to nine quid LP - not a chance! It was SO BLOODY EXXY to buy music back in those days.

Prices have flatlined (in actual terms) for many years. Alex could hear of this Scott Walker bloke being a good egg, check him on YouTube, listen to 30 sec samples on HMV/iTunes, buy 2nd hand CDs for less than a fiver on eBay/Amazon and he's done. Or download illegally from somewhere or other for nowt.

Kids these days - don't know they're born!

kb | 19 March 2008 - 6:04pm

Indeed

I remember in my first year at Uni (Feb/March '88 or thereabouts) reading a piece in the NME about Nick Drake and thinking he sounded like my type of music, but it took chancing upon the Fruit Tree boxed LP set for the bargain price of £9.99 in a small record shop in Lewes and then waiting several weeks before getting home for Easter to gain access to a record player before I could confirm that hypothesis.

I can't help wondering if I would have formed such a strong and (so far) lifelong attachment to them if I'd just been able to snaffle them off the intertubes within 10 minutes of reading the mag...

Tân_Coul | 20 March 2008 - 1:55am

Lewes?

Would that be the small record shop under the railway bridge or the one halfway up School hill? I'm amazed you found anything there, they only ever seemed to stock Gentleman Jim Reeves.

Retropath2 | 20 March 2008 - 8:40am

nothing new here

When I was a teenager, lots of decent music was available via our local public library. My brother and I listened to anything and everything, very open-minded, and took recommendations. It's a bit easier now (that was 25 years ago at least) but really, if the desire to learn about music is there, sooner or later you are going to hear some of the so-called classics.

Andrew Bradley | 20 March 2008 - 4:44pm

The Public Library was the P2P of the 80s

A bicycle, a flat within cycling distance, a record deck and a cassette deck, a good pair of legs and plenty of free time.

That was all it took 20 years ago to gain a full and wide ranging music collection. The Library would even order things in. I was the first person ever (and probably the last too) to play a brand new copy of Troutmask Replica borrowed from Bristol Public Library. I still have the casset..... er, no I don't. Honest. Listen, you never saw me, right?

Vulpes Vulpes | 20 March 2008 - 6:58pm

Oh for a decent...

....cassette to MP3 player. yes, yes, I know you can attach, but by the time you reduce the noise, you've lost the lot, especially with the original being record to tape.
Mind you, I've chucked all mine now, having found the songs I needed from them, by and large.

Retropath2 | 20 March 2008 - 7:13pm

Very true, actually

I'd forgotten how much of my music collection came from library recordings... so much cheaper to spend 30p on hiring the cassette for a week than spending a lot more on an album that could have been as ropey as old boots.

robram | 22 March 2008 - 5:11pm

it depends on your peers

I think its reasonable for a couple of 22 year olds to meet over a shared love of Scott Walker, it depends how you are brought up!
I'm 25 & was a lucky sod to have been raised in a atmosphere of great music. My dad played (as he still does) in various 60's & Irish bands, my mum is into her bille holliday/edith piaf, my older brother went from being a mad Altern8/KLF (remember them!)fan into a Joy Division & The Fall obsessive (via the delights of Nirvana, Megadeth & Metallica) & then theres my little sister who is into Westlife one minute & early Elvis Presley the next!! When you grow up surrounded by these variants then you will always appreciate great stuff. A few gentle nudges have ended with me being into everything & anything. A lot of people wont believe me for liking someone like Sam Cooke or Jackie Wilson as if I shouldnt have the right. Good music is for all & good on them for it. However, there is the plausible chance they may be talking shite to look good, for though there are young people who appreciate & have the knowledge of great music there will always be someone claiming to do so....I'm looking in the direction of the kooks, big Dylan fans apparently!

seanioio | 20 March 2008 - 5:45pm

it ain't so hard

At school I had a friend who had an older brother who had a fine record collection. I used to borrow the likes of Can, Hendrix and Gong - some of this music stayed with me, some didn't. I got the NME, listened to the more adventurous radio shows. My parents certainly had nothing to do with it. I had an NME encyclopedia of Rock - gave me some ideas. There used to be a shop called Rainbows End where you could get back copies of Zigzag and International Times and such. Now it's all on the internet for this generation, but it's a similar process. I wasn't wanting to be cool exactly, OK maybe a little (though I think many of my peers would have despised what I liked) - I just wanted to find stuff that would surprise me and be exotic to escape the mundane and humdrum with.

Tadorna Ferruginea | 20 March 2008 - 7:07pm

Forget about credible influences...

...I heard their single the other day and it didn't half sound like Legend of Xanadu by Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.

None the worse for that, I should add.

robin_m | 21 March 2008 - 12:16am

What is this pathetic idea...

...of well listened?
Why is it that name-dropping Scott Walker, Miles Davis or Lou Reed when you're in your 20s suddenly propels you to this knighted division of learned musical virtuoso?

Liam Hatchet | 21 March 2008 - 12:17pm

It's just young folks

getting seriously into music isn't it? I can't say I have ever been in a situation with people where dropping those names would have impressed anyone that much, probably the opposite in fact. There was a film on BBC4 not long ago about Scott Walker. Quite a diverse mix of celeb musicians were enthusing about his work. I don't think it was anything other than genuine admiration.

Sure there are some who want to look cool by appreaing to like the right music and the likes of the NME may have once had a significant influence that pushed the easily led in their chosen direction, but not so much now. In fact I am not really sure anyone knows what is supposed to be hip anymore, which is probably a good thing.

Tadorna Ferruginea | 21 March 2008 - 1:11pm

Teenage taste

My son has just turned 18 and has a decent knowledge of artists that were around years before - his favourites being Led Zeppelin (no great surprise) and Stevie Ray Vaughan (not an obvious choice for an 18 year old). The point is his formative years although spent in a split family were very much soundtracked by a continual background of whatever cd i happened to be listening to whenever he visited my house or whenever i picked him up in the car. As in most other facets of a developing childs personality, parental habits are a big influence and musical taste is not and should not be outside of the sphere of influence.I am happy that he has grown up with a love for music and am even more pleased that he has introduced me to artists that i hadnt previously considered such as Muse, Gogol Bordello and The Raconteurs to name a few.
Now if i can just steer my daughter away from High School Musical!!

Steve Turner | 22 March 2008 - 12:19pm

I have to disagree Steve...

I don't have children, but if I did I'd like to think I'd leave them listen to rubbish music for a while before discovering for themselves what the good stuff is. When I was 9 or so, I loved the Grease soundtrack... this in no way prevented me from developing a deep love of Supertramp, Rush and Judas Priest. You see, good taste will come out in the end!!!

Patrick Crowther | 22 March 2008 - 12:24pm

Good taste

Oh the irony!

Fiction Romantic | 22 March 2008 - 10:41pm

Heh heh heh!

Oh yes... exemplary good taste!

Patrick Crowther | 23 March 2008 - 11:04am

Big brother is watching...

...and my big bruv being 10 years my senior & with decent musical taste, I was set off on the right path (and thank the lord he was there to counteract the Nina & Frederick/Clio Lane my mum played over and over). Mercifully they were drowned out by T-Rex, Hendrix and Led Zep.

Now I work at a secondary school and parents/siblings continue to play a part in the musical education of many teenagers I work with. Plus these kids just love to check out old stuff, like I & many of my college mates did in our teens. So what's on the ipods of the kids I work with now? Well, T-Rex, Hendrix & Led Zep and much, much more from decades before. Aaah … it sure restores your faith to know they aren't all going the way of Simon Cowell and that they do know a good tune when they hear one - no matter how old it may be…

JoanneC | 22 March 2008 - 9:07pm

Life on mars

My 13 year old daughter has access to a mixed bag of tunes in the Windows Media Library courtesy of my supurb music collection. She watches Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes and other programmes and then checks out the music. With the demise of Top of the Pops and the availability of information on t'interweb kids will hopefully explore and find their own music.

There has never been so much music available and, unlike in my youth, there is no need for deleting records after a short while leaving only the "classics" or the current charts. I have noticed my daughter has a tendency towards completism and digging out original versions of songs or checking out the artists influences - I wonder where she gets that from?

Fiction Romantic | 22 March 2008 - 10:50pm

I can well remember Julian

I can well remember Julian Cope constantly waxing lyrical about Scott Walker when he was a whippersnapper. In fact I think his Teardrop Explodes haircut was an homage to Scott. No P2P in the early 80's.

GunsOfBrixton | 24 March 2008 - 5:51pm

The internet & scott walker

I think the internet has opened wide the world of music to younger than I. I made do with my friends' elder brothers' albums.

ps I don't really 'get' Scott Walker. Last thing I heard he was slapping meat for a track. Er??

laddie | 25 March 2008 - 4:32pm

Laddie... come closer... I'll let you in on a secret...

apparently slapping meat (?!) is... wait for it... art!

I love Scott 1, 2, 3 and 4 enormously... but his recent stuff? The sound of a man crawling up his own arse.

Patrick Crowther | 25 March 2008 - 5:26pm

So now he is slapping his meat in public

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Springer Bell | 25 March 2008 - 6:25pm

Yes, it's easier to look up/listen to stuff now, but...

... there's a lot more of it to look for! I'm 44, so when I was really getting into music in my early teens (the early/mid-70's), there was only 20 years of "rock" to catch up on. A 15-year old now looks back at the New Romantics (for instance) with the same distance as I looked back on Elvis and Buddy Holly at the same age, so asking them to delve back further to (say) the sixties is like asking my generation to look back to Glenn Miller and Tommy Dorsey - not impossible, but you do lose a lot of people on the journey...

I think the "bush telegraph" of music recommendation still happens - like a few people here I got into Scott Walker via namedrops/covers from Julian Cope and Marc Almond - but whereas I had to haunt 2nd-hand shops and record fairs to get any further, today it's all YouTube, BitTorrent and Ebay, easier to access but less satisfying, an echo of the "iPod effect" perhaps...?

Metal Mickey | 25 March 2008 - 9:42pm

Looking back

wouldn't todays 15 year old see the link between current bands and sixties bands quite easily and so see the relevance, whereas Glenn Miller is another world completely? In fact most new music still derives more from sixties music than from anywhere else doesn't it?

Tadorna Ferruginea | 25 March 2008 - 10:38pm