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Hodgson Out / Dalglish In

Spartacus Mills's picture

What are the massive's thoughts on this?

As a Liverpool supporter, I'm pretty wary. We've now become the sort of club who hound managers out after five months and replace them with figures from the glorious past, in the vague hope that we'll sail to success on a sea of sentimentality.

Still, I wish Kenny the best and hope I turn out wrong.

0

Are you Newcastle in disguise?

I think it all depends on the reaction of the players. Kenny's effectively been out of the game for over a decade I guess - does he mean anything to the non-locals other than as a blast from the past? Will he get Torres out of his sulk?

Next two games (especially the second) will be interesting...

0
Paul Waring | 8 January 2011 - 1:35pm

Newcastle

It's a bit of a 'Keegan' isn't it?

Every last one of my mates seems to be delighted by the news. They think we're going to turn Everton and United over and march on to glory. You'd think he had a magic wand.

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Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2011 - 1:38pm

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised

If you did turn over United and Everton. But beyond that?

I assume Kenny's only there until they recruit a 'name' in the Summer? When does Rafa's gardening leave expire??

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Paul Waring | 8 January 2011 - 1:48pm

It's more Celtic

Very reminiscent of the situation when John Barnes' ruinous season at Parkhead came to an end in the wake of "SuperCaleygoballisticcelticareatrocious-gate" and Dalglish stepped in until the end of the season.

He was reduced to holding press conferences in dive bars in the Gallowgate to show how "real" he was. Meanwhile the team continued to be dismal. Mind you, he was followed by Martin O'Neil so it had a happy ending eventually.

1
goatboyuk69 | 8 January 2011 - 6:04pm

looking back to the 1990s

and Liverpool the new Manchester City?

The do seem to be some parallels. No club is ever too big to go down. And as the current Mrs Cradlerock and our son and daughter are rabide Liverpool fans my life wouldn't be worth living if they do go down (apart from the pure hilarity and joy expressed in private!)

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cradlerock | 10 January 2011 - 1:28pm

Can't help

but feel sorry for Hodgson really, he seemed liked a decent man trying to steady a club in steep decline. I've always had a soft spot for Liverpool, but the vicious reaction of the fans towards this man has left a bad taste in my mouth.

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sirbriancannonhunter | 8 January 2011 - 1:50pm

Agreed

Roy Hodgson is a good man and a good manager. Unfortunately we have a fanbase with top four pretensions and a squad that's only good enough for mid-table. He's been made the fall guy, but the rot set in a couple of years ago.

3
Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2011 - 1:55pm

Hodgson

Seemed to hired on the strength of his BBC punditry. So may I suggest a Hansen/Lawrenson appointment in September. Then invite a different Premiership manager onto MOTD every week to stress how important it is to 'keep it tight.'

0
fedoraboy | 8 January 2011 - 2:07pm

Strange comment

Considering Hodgson was manager of the year when we appointed him.

0
Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2011 - 3:30pm

Hansen recently said on MOTD

that he didn't have the "bottle" to be a manager ...

0
Glenbervie | 9 January 2011 - 11:57am

Return of the King

Kenny is a legend and I hope he can bring some stability to the club. One problem could be the amount of power the players hold. Are the team really as bad as our current position suggest (the majority of these players finished 2nd in the league the season before last) or have the players just decided that for whatever reason Roy's tactics, management style or whatever wasn't for them and have decided not to perform.

Stories continually appear saying players want more money invested, better manager or they will leave. The club should just say OK, dont let the door hit you on the way out!

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alf2019 | 8 January 2011 - 2:19pm

NESV

It seems like NESV are trying to get the fans back onside. Replacing an unpopular manager with a club legend.

It is a shame for Hodgson but ultimately the results, tactics and performances weren't good enough. The fans had started to vote with their feet so something had to be done.

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hibbytc | 8 January 2011 - 2:25pm

In some ways it could

In some ways it could strengthen NESV position, they have given the fans what they want and if it doesnt work, they can turn and say now we do it our way.

NESV have been a bit slow to respond to this to be honest but on the whole I think their measured approach the problems at the club is right. Turning us into a force again is going to be a long job and throwing millions at bringing players in isnt going to help.

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alf2019 | 8 January 2011 - 2:31pm

Moneyball

It could be interesting to see if NESV can translate the Moneyball approach to football. It may be stating the obvious but football and baseball are very different sports.

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hibbytc | 8 January 2011 - 2:45pm

Reaction

I wonder if they have seen anything like this sort of venom towards Managers/coaches in baseball?

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alf2019 | 8 January 2011 - 2:58pm

different sports indeed

but I cant see why the Moneyball strategy couldn't have some success, it's really an extension of investment strategy and requires a totally detached view. It would be really interesting to see it tried.

I guess the problem will be the fickleness of the fans, I'm not sure they would have the patience for it. Not talking specifically Liverpool here, just fans in general.

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Sid Williams | 8 January 2011 - 5:17pm

Big Sam

I think to some extent Sam Alladyce has followed the Moneyball approach - it has not won trophies, but on the other hand his teams have cost less than many others and not really threatened relegation.

Of course us followers of the Mighty Reds expect more than that. I think that the new owners are waiting for the new rules on squad size and wages when the Moneyball approach will become necessary rather than the "we have more money than you" approach.

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paulwright | 9 January 2011 - 6:21pm

Woy wasn't good enough.

With the club sliding down the table and its best players seemingly intent on leaving, what else could the board do? When Hodgson thinks a good run in the Europa League/FA Cup would be adequate compensation, it's clear his priorities don't match those of either the club, the players or the supporters and so he has to go - if he takes K*ntchesky with him, that'll be a lovely bonus.

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Paolo Meccano | 8 January 2011 - 2:44pm

At least no-one's raping

Ian McCulloch's family anymore, so it's not all bad news in the pool of life.

6
badartdog | 8 January 2011 - 3:15pm

Shame.

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Georgedivided | 8 January 2011 - 4:32pm

Roy Keane

He will be the obvious choice given Liverpool's Championship ambitions!

2
Uncle Wheaty | 8 January 2011 - 4:37pm

It's a holding job isn't it?

Until they appoint a younger manager in the summer with a view to the future and hopefully a clear picture of the root and branch re-building to be done.

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Ozmium | 8 January 2011 - 4:43pm

Strange choice

but I think Roy Marsden will do a grand job in Supertramp. BTW what is football?

2
DogFacedBoy | 8 January 2011 - 4:49pm

On Thursday

Mrs toro told me that a couple of her work colleagues reckoned that Hodgson was for the chop and King kenny would take over for the rest of the season. So far so good.

They reckoned that the new man for next year would be Mourinho. Can't see it myself but football can throw up some weird shit sometimes.

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el toro calvo grande | 8 January 2011 - 5:33pm

In Rafa we trust?

Roy is better off out of it, he never stood a chance. I'm just surprised he thought it was a good idea to take it in the first place. Owners fault last year, managers fault this year? The common denominator folks is the players, Rafas players. Good luck Kenny, you may be able to make Lucas a great player or find a centre half pairing capable of protecting Reina or a forward capable of partnering / replacing Torres but I doubt it.

By the way can I just say that Phil Thompson is an arsehole. Thank you!

3
Dave Amitri | 8 January 2011 - 6:17pm

Liverpool Fans?

Be careful.. you have just got what you wished for. If any of you think "King Kenny" is a better manager than Roy Hodgson then you are seriously deluded. Hey, you my even get Rafa back!!

1
geacher53 | 8 January 2011 - 8:41pm

Kenny

has won more trophies than Hodgson has away games. He can't go wrong with this, the big players will play for him and he'll be a damn sight more positive than Roy ever was. Hodgson's last interview was a safe bat for the club website and he even managed to goon that by offering the idea that going to Man U and beating them would be "a remarkable coup"! The idiot. Out of his depth from day one, had no idea how big the job was or the club is. Undoubtedly a nice guy but not good enough.

2
ian s | 8 January 2011 - 8:47pm

Have they not considered

the spirit of Bill Shankly, channeled via Derek Acorah?

3
Brookster | 8 January 2011 - 9:04pm

he won a few of those trophies as player manager

and it has long been rumoured that he wasn't really at the steering wheel then. From memory he only had a couple of years as manager and probably won a trophy or two then but I think you have to remember back to what a dominant and well oiled machine Liverpool was in those days. As Geoffrey Boycott could say - my mum could have managed them and still won trophies. There were also questions about some of his signings as I remember - Jimmy Carter?

The Blackburn league win was impressive but, again, I think the effect of a large chequebook (and the managers playing status) was a lot more of a differentiator than it is today and even then he had to rely on the incompetence of Andy Cole on the last day to clinch the title. They went downhill pretty fast afterwards as well.

The Newcastle and Celtic periods are best forgotten so I think you have to be careful about regarding him as some kind of uber-manager by just reading the trophy list.

Having said that I would be delighted to be proved wrong. Kenny is a true gent and was one of THE great players in my opinion and I wish him all the best. I also have a soft spot for Liverpool (in spite of THAT video) so I really hope they get sorted out soon.

0
Sid Williams | 8 January 2011 - 9:48pm

Why is Kegsy Keegan

never touted as a manager for the scousers? Surely he was more of a hero there than he was at sportsdirectpark@stjames.com?

1
Mr Fade | 8 January 2011 - 8:44pm

Keegan: Second-rate Dalglish

As true now as it ever was.

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Paolo Meccano | 9 January 2011 - 11:12am

Desperate, risky and doomed

I don't normally stick my neck out over such things, but I think this is a desperate act from a panicked club. Roy Hodgson would have given them a mid-table place and some stability on the field as they sort everything else out. Dalglish - legend though he is - cannot turn things around and get Liverpool back to the top 4 instantly. As was seen with Celtic, he cannot guarantee success.

My view is that the "unthinkable" relegation battle may be on the cards due to a complete lack of a long-term plan. Then they will join Leeds and Newcastle as clubs that used to pretty good but only older generations remember.

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Austin | 8 January 2011 - 9:42pm

It's the right thing to do.

Sounds to me like a lot of people here are parroting the popular opinion from the SSN/Talksport boys club.

Roy Hodgson shouldn't have been appointed Liverpool manager in the first place. It was a mistake. He was completely out of his depth. He simply didn't have the chops to cope with being in charge of a club of Liverpool's magnitude.

I don't know why people keep talking up his record. His career record is mediocre. His tactics are/were negative and predictable - long ball up to Torres time and time again etc (compare the Guardian the chalkboards if you want, the evidence is there). If you watched Liverpool regularly this season you'd agree.

I also don't know why everyone says he's a nice man all the time. He's a fraud. He contradicted himself in press conferences all the time. He was always covering his arse, blaming someone else or critiscising his own players and supporters in public. He simply couldn't motivate the team.

On the touchline, where players look to for calm and authorititive leadership, he was always nervous, worried, inconsistent and indecisive. He was not, by any stretch of the imagination, cut out to be a Liverpool manager.

As usual old Rafa gets the finger pointed at him yet again. We went over this a few weeks ago where I posted the complete record of Rafas 6 seasons in charge at Anfield, results, transfers, profit and loss etc (net spend £80m), It's there somewhere if you want to look.

Under Rafa we became the no.1 club in the European rankings and the team was narrowly pipped for the league 2 years ago with a club record points total etc etc, I could go on... Sky, the Sunday Supplement boys and The Xenophobic English press cant stand Rafa. They virtually demanded his sacking and the appointment of Roy Hodgson. And, like a Champ Manager obsessed teenager, Christian Purslow duly played along. The press will bang on and on about the 'rubbish' that Rafa left behind because they hate him. He doesn't play their game and dared to have a go at the Sir Alex/Big Sam LMA clique. It's also worth noting that he was the first person to point out how bad Hicks and Gilette were (post 2007 ECF). Good on him I say. He should be given a knighthood.

Kenneth Mathieson Dalglish is the perfect man to take us from now until the end of the season. Kenny has won more trophies in his career than Roy Hodgson has won away games in the Premiership. It's a fact. look it up.

I'm off to The Alehouse, what's everyone having? Bitter?

xx

3
Flagpole Corner | 8 January 2011 - 10:15pm

Dalglish's appointment will galvanise the club short term ...

i'd guess a narrow defeat today to Man U (but with KD talking about "taking positives from the game" afterwards), a win over Blackpool midweek and maybe another win over Everton next weekend ... then it'll be back to the bump & grind of a rusty manager and a demoralised squad (who can't win away to save themselves) where i suspect Gerrard, Reina and Torres at least are considering their options for the summer ...

0
Glenbervie | 9 January 2011 - 12:08pm

woo

i don't often get predictions right but at least part one was on the money

0
Glenbervie | 10 January 2011 - 12:41pm

oi vey

so much for part II

0
Glenbervie | 12 January 2011 - 11:23pm

Nah

this is just unpleasant about Hodgson ... he has top flight experience in Sweden, Switzerland, Italy and England, international experience with Switzerland and Finland, and did okay with Fulham ... this alone makes him one of the most adaptable English managers of his generation

the idea that his record marks him out as incapable of dealing with a - sorry but it's true - Euro League standard club like Liverpool is delusional

Hodgson has been subject to a pathological level of scrutiny over the last few months and every response he's tried to make to answer what's gone before has been seized on as evidence of his incompetence and duplicity ...

Benitez's main domestic achievement meanwhile was drawing 11 games out of 38 and finishing second in the English Premier League, once

as i've noted elsewhere, the essential problem for Liverpool over the last few years has been neither Benitez nor Hodgson but financial: Gillet & Hicks' stewardship, debt servicing, the credit crunch, the limited size of the stadium, the lack of a new stadium, the lack of money as compared to Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man C and - given a couple of seasons in the Champs League - Spurs. In that context, blaming Hodgson and regarding Dalglish as a Keeganite second coming is simply unhealthy for the future of the club. Instead, Liverpool need consolidation for the meantime in the top 8, a new stadium that holds at least as much as the Emirates and an understanding support who realise they haven't won the league in more than two decades and doubtless won't anytime soon ... (but might if everything comes together in 5-10 years) ...

this might sound like belligerent talk - apologies - but the level of opprobium being levelled at Hodgson is just offensive to my mind.

3
Glenbervie | 10 January 2011 - 11:27pm

Would you be happy to see Hodgson...

...as manager of your club? Genuine question.

0
Paolo Meccano | 12 January 2011 - 6:19pm

As I support Heart of Midlothian FC*

Roy could probably buy us with his pay off cheque.

* The only British football club named after a work of literature.

0
BernkastelCues | 12 January 2011 - 6:23pm

And Alloa

Are the only team named after a catchphrase from Hawaii Five O

1
STD | 12 January 2011 - 6:36pm

My club, Brentford?

Yes.

My sons club, Fulham? definitely.

0
Dave Amitri | 12 January 2011 - 11:12pm

Aberdeen?

Nah, Hodgson isn't *nearly* old enough ... we hae Grandpa Broon

0
Glenbervie | 12 January 2011 - 11:20pm

hear hear

Flagpole, I thought your postings on the Rafa thread were brilliant. Tonight I find myself agreeing with you again.

0
Vorgongod | 8 January 2011 - 11:07pm

Oh really

Corinthians, Huddersfield Town, Preston North End, Sheffield Wednesday and Wolverhampton Wanderers used to be major forces in English football.

What gives Liverpool FC any special privilege; a team that hasn't won the league for twenty years? The never-ending sentimentality and entitlement of Liverpool fans?

6
Brookster | 8 January 2011 - 11:26pm

spot on fella

fun to watch though, give it a few weeks and it'll be 'insert name/race/place' fault

1
gaz | 10 January 2011 - 1:05pm

yeah, pretty much.

As a banner on the Kop once so eloquently put it; 'Stature is measured by the shadow cast.'

1
Vorgongod | 8 January 2011 - 11:40pm

Others who are casting a shadow from the 80s

Phil Collins, Whitney Houston, Bon Jovi and Hall & Oates.

2
Brookster | 9 January 2011 - 12:20am

and your point is, caller?

The 80s also had The Smiths and Prince. The 70s had David Bowie and Kraftwerk. Meanwhile the 60s had..ooh, if only I could think of a 60s band that were actually from Liverpool....

0
Vorgongod | 9 January 2011 - 12:36pm

I'm wary too

Hodgson has never been the same since Supertramp

1
Junior Wells | 9 January 2011 - 11:28am

As a sidenote,

Sir Alex Ferguson
David Moyes
Alex McLeish
Owen Coyle
Steve Kean
Kenny Dalglish

A remarkable tradition continues...

Regarding Kenny, one thing that has always been fascinating is his rivalry with Fergie. He was never intimidated / patronised in the way that others such as Keegan were. It's funny how two Glaswegians, both Govanite Rangers supporters (can't quite remember where Dalglish played before he arrived at Anfield...) ended up two of the most fanatical, passionate figures at the two great red monoliths of English football. Looking forward to seeing the sparks continue to fly!

0
DougieJ | 9 January 2011 - 1:16pm

Also, remember the money.

Gillett & Hicks bought Liverpool when it was still the era of cheap, easy cash in a financial services boom time ... being indebted suddenly became a lot more difficult to deal with, individually or corporately, after the credit crunch, from autumn 2008 say.

Also, where Anfield has a capacity just over 45,000 - and the club was turning over £159m in 2007/08, £185m in 2008/09 - Old Trafford holds just over 76,000, the Emirates over 60,000.

Finding a straightforward figure for turnover for the other top clubs is not simple but Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea all turned over more then £200m in 2007/08 then 2008/09, with Spurs creeping up and new owners throwing cash at Man City. With Liverpool lagging behind the other top clubs in terms of finances, Benitez didn't do too badly given the constraints - also given the fact that he was labouring under an expectation of pre-eminence that he only came close to fulfilling once (2008-09 season when they only lost two league games, scored more goals than anyone else but - crucially - drew 11 out of 38 and were pipped to the title by Man U).

Consequently, Liverpool seem stuck in a hard place. Assuming NESV don't just chuck a few hundred million at the situation (like Abramovich or Sheikh Mansour), assuming that borrowing the cash to build a massive new stadium is still fraught, assuming that turnover will remain limited compared to Man U and Arsenal (let alone Chelsea, Spurs and Man City) then any manager has the challenge of living up to the history while operating at a financial level that's more Euro League than Champions League. Dropping into mid table is clearly not acceptable while rebuilding, so Hodgson had all of half a season before getting the bump, and old icons are not the answer. Dalglish last won the title with Liverpool in 1990 before the re-emergence of Man U, before the inception of the Premier League. (Things were different in the last century.)
In conclusion, Benitez did "nae badly" but there was only so long he could keep repeating the trick of punching above their financial weight. Readjustment of expectations ahoy. Now I'm off out to watch the game at Old Trafford on a pub TV...

0
Glenbervie | 9 January 2011 - 1:49pm

plus ca change

Brutally functional from Man U; Liverpool not at the races ...

0
Glenbervie | 9 January 2011 - 4:39pm

Not a reflection on Dalglish though, surely?

Penalty conceded in first minute (probably shouldn't have been given), then Gerrard's sending off (probably warranted, to judge from KD's acceptance of the decision after watching it on the monitor). In the circs, not a terrible outcome. He'll be judged more on the mid-table clashes to come. I thought he came across as confident and struck the right note in pre-match interviews. It was like he'd never been away.

0
DougieJ | 9 January 2011 - 5:00pm

i was kind of thinking ...

.. narrow defeat at Old Trafford, beat Blackpool, beat or draw honourably with Everton, then come the end of Jan it'll be back to mid table performances, Dalglish or no Dalglish ... KD is no substitute for a 60,000+ new stadium and a 50% hike in turnover...

and i disagree about the penalty ...

a lot of the problem here is to do with pundits scratching around for a new, interesting narrative when the underlying reality simply hasn't changed since the summer of 2009 ... Liverpool don't have the same financial clout as the clubs they think of as their peers, debt repayment was a bugger and the takeover by NESV has not brought sugar-daddy largesse ...

0
Glenbervie | 9 January 2011 - 5:55pm

Konchesky dropped from the squad

Which at least shows that Kenny is in touch with the feelings of the supporters.

0
Spartacus Mills | 9 January 2011 - 2:20pm

Flagpole...100%

Flagpole...100% correct,especially re Rafa. Great post.

0
paulybell | 10 January 2011 - 2:47pm
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