but it does beg the question what should you do with a Motown record once you'd bought it.

I'd go with Motown but just 'cos they did pop music at least as well as anyone else ever did.

not the people in the office. I just think Smokey Robinson was probably more interested in having hit records than Dan Penn was, and that Diana Ross was more driven by the possibility of becoming a star than Mavis Staples was. I may be wrong, but that's the impression I still have when I listen to both.

or indeed makes any sense other than to be poorly veiled put down.

I bet they didn't plan it that way. But actually, it's progress at least as before black music for white people needed white people (Bill Hailey, Elvis Presley et all) to front it.

Sounds to me like the way forward rather than the put down intended in the programme.

Many more white artists were players and writers for Stax, but to say that Stax was white music for black people would be as offensive as the motown slur. There is no colour to music: it is a SOUND. Vision is the sense for colour. Pedantry aside, it doesn't matter anyway. Cat fleas bite dogs.

...and is purely intended as an exercise in prompting discussion, not to actually decide which is better. The very fact that you don't have to choose is what makes the game stimulating. Of course, we have different moods and different vibes that need satisfying and that might be The Four Tops this afternoon and Otis this evening.

That said, I do feel that if in some absurdly-twisted universe it came to an up-against-the-wall-gun-to-my-head-had-to-choose scenario it would be Stax. Before the meltdown.

....because in the one sentence you have who I consider to be the best musicians ever....oh wow, now you've got me thinking....

I thank you.

pick telly over beer?

Jeez, that last one's a toughie, though. It was all going so easily until then.

...of the North/South contrast, is the Teen/Adult contrast. It's been repeatedly documented that one of Gordy's mission statements was that the songs had to speak to teens and their concerns -- losing a boyfriend/girlfriend, having a boyfriend who's "bad" but only she sees his inner good, etc. This dovetailed with Gordy's insistence on songs being written in the immediate 'now': "My baby's leaving me" versus "My baby left me". Auditioning the final product through a three inch car speaker insured it would be what teens would want to hear while cruising... it all adds up to a genius bit of demographic targeting (absolutely no disrespect intended, because the songs ARE brilliant regardless of marketing).

Stax, on the other hand, was more of an organic continuation of the jump blues and r'n'b tradition that had preceded it. It was the sound of the roadhouse, with all its attendant smoke and whiskey-soaked vibe, where you might get rolled in the parking lot. Adult concerns, not so much American-Bandstand-ready, with a few more years and failed relationships left behind.

As far as integration goes, Mark E. Smith claims that The Fall were almost signed to Motown (supposedly Motown execs heard the opening of "The Classical" and killed that idea). I guess I don't know enough about MES's veracity to judge whether it's an apocryphal tale or not. But I do know that Soupy Sales was signed to Motown. Still, the Funk Brothers were a long way from being integrated.