Actually speaker wire can (and does) make a difference. It stands to reason that the lower the resistance between the speakers and the amplifier the more signal will reach the speakers. Thicker cable achieves this and it's more expensive than thinner wire (for no better reason that there's more copper involved). If the cable is premade with terminating plugs then gold plating will get a better connection for longer simply because there will be no corrosion or oxidation of the surface. Once you've got o that stage the next step up is probably the ludicrously expensive stuff and I would rather spend my money on another CD.
There is an argument for leaving a piece of equipment on for a while as the characteristics of brand new components can change when heated up for the first time although if the hi-fi was tested in the factory and found to meet the spec it's entirely possible that this would degrade the sound and that if the components are susceptable to this the amp should be used for short periods only to avoid it getting too hot!

I know nothing about hi-fi, but good speaker cable can definitely make a positive difference. When I bought a Cyrus/Mission set-up a few years ago, the dealer was *kind* enough to reel off - for free - 4m of the cheapest cable they had (telephone wire). I used the cable for about a month until I treated myself to something decent (£3 per metre -- hardly expensive). The difference was amazing. It was like I'd removed earplugs.

with the law of diminishing returns. Unless you were deficient in the hearing department, you *would"* notice an improvement -- even with a cheap speaker cable upgrade.

One of my relatives believes in all of this. He has had CDs in the freezer, green highlighter pen round the CD, no books in the room which have an odd number of pages, he re-wired his front room so that the pre-amps and power amps are on separate rings ... his stereo setup is always evolving but rarely sounds much cop to me.

He traded in his old speaker cable (which he had replaced with something even more expensive) and got around £100 off the next set of titanium feet for his speaker stands (or whatever : I find it hard to follow it all, really).

I agree with the point above : if you can hear a difference (and maybe he can!), it's probably worth it.

The whole speaker cable thing is hysterical. It's the male equivalent of going to see Doris Stokes talk to the dead.

As long as your cable as enough capacity to carry the signal, then you're fine. Any improvements from expensive cable are completely in your head, which has been borne out by several blind listening tests.

If you want to get really silly however, get yourself a 12ft pair of Pear Anjou cables – only $7,250 sir!

If you're genuinely interested, go to a good dealer and book a private listening session. They can demonstrate the differences between almost any comparable components and ancillaries. In fact this was how Linn insisted that their components were demonstrated back in the analogue days. The differences between the Sondek turntable and its rivals were not subtle. The same was - and is - true of other high-end components.

Good dealers don't operate under the "pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap" principle and, believe it or not, they won't pressure you to buy anything at all!

By the way, this is the first I've heard of the turntable preamp "scam". If you run a low output moving coil cartridge, you may need to boost the signal into your amplifier. Simply turning up the volume won't help and may damage your speakers.

Oh, and my Naim amps, CD player and turntable power supply are always on, not because I like paying EDF, but because they do sound better!

Are definitely not a scam, the signal is significantly lower from a turntable, even with the volume right up you'd not hear much without one.

While it's true that many amps don't come fitted with one anymore they're very easy and cheap to get fitted internally. Richer Sounds popped one in to my new amplifier in 5 minutes for an extra ten quid.

I agree with the diminishing returns on speaker wire though, £3 a metre will be massivly different to that doorbell type wire, £30 a metre can't be justified (for me anyway).

The thing with being so worried about the cables and pre-amps is rather undermined if you consider that the average musician (especially those who record their albums in their own home project studio) won't be taking that kind of care over their own cables used to make the thing in the first place. Certainly with a lot of rock and pop recorded in the 60s, remastered and played back on a modest hi-fi, you may well already be hearing detail that the artist wasn't hearing at the time of recording.

Most commercial studios have fantastic electrical engineering but you can be fairly sure that they won't have a separate ring main sources all their equipment and are probably buying cable in bulk from an electrical supplier such as CPC.

The whole thing is like of like looking at a marvellous painting with a microscope - you might be getting more detail but it's not always what the artist might have intended.

… then what happens when the signal, travelling down the cable, reaches the wire coils in the back of your speaker (which are presumably not constructed to audiophile standards)?

Billyous – there are two possible answers to why your new cables sounded better:

1. Your original cables weren't thick enough (mine are, but I think I only paid 59p/metre for them)
2. Confirmation bias

I spent 12 quid. I heard major improvement -- nothing to do with confirmation bias.

the better you think it sounds. If it doesn't sound better you enter a state of cognitive dissonance, which no sensible mind likes (that's the cold feeling you get when $12,000 of speaker-stand sand doesn't add up to $12,000 of actual improvement. Your mind doesn't like this feeling, so it thinks "actually, I CAN hear a difference, at least $12,001 worth!"

12 quid for decent speaker cable sounds very reasonable. If nothing else it's less likely to break or part company from the speakers.

I hope all the internal connections in one's hifi are to similar gold plated standards, though, and not made with 3 core filament...

Two things. Firstly some of the lower end speaker cables are worth buying as they sound better and are easier to hide (flat bi-wire for example is a lot easier to hide under the carpet than mains cable). FPO's seem to prefer the less visible look.

Secondly, expensive digital cables (e.g. HDMI) do seem to me to be a con. Digital either works or it doesn't and other than having a well made connection at each end to ensure that it is not intermittent, I can't see why you'd pay more than a few quid for one.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

I bought some speaker stands which came with their own bag of silver sand with which to "tune" the hollow legs. And as I was leaving the shop guy reminded me to mount the speakers on lumps of Blu Tac....bullocks, thought I, but out of interest I did one side and panned between one and the other. Bugger me, it made a definate difference. Well well.

Mind you he also recommended sinking four Philips screws into the floor and standing the speaker stand spikes in the cross of each screw. Mrs.T's response to this suggestion is better left unpublished.

All this hi-fi chit-chat reminds me of my dad. I have nothing to contribute to this discussion, having inherited his love of music but not his interest in hi-fi equipment. However, when the sad day comes I shall also inherit a rather nice set-up I believe.

The famous Linn/Naim japes....probably did more to damage the reputation of High Fidelity in the public's collective mind than anything else.

Audio experts on the messageboard -- who can tell the difference between the sound of normal cables and expensive cables -- can apply to take James Randi's million dollar challenge. If you can pass a mutually agreed listening test under controlled conditions, you can walk off with $1m.

Some details here.

is Peter Belt.

http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/index.html

Special safety pins that attached to your shirt make a difference; special silver foil; special water to drip onto your discs. All yours for a snip.

He's the man who started the freeze your CD's malarkey.

Right-angles ROCK! My house is full of the little beauties.

Although on the same angle : Steve Wright* "Some people are afraid of heights -- I'm afraid of widths."

*The funny American one.

I am lucky to have a rather nice linn/naim set up which I have gradually upgraded over many years. I always borrow equipment on a home demo for few days before parting with any cash. I did try a £500 interconnect once at home and, to be honest, I could not make my mind up over it so I returned it to my dealer. He admitted that 60% liked the cable and bought it but 40% couldn't decide. I think the fact that this thread was started by someone who admitted he new nothing about the subject says it all really. I greatly enjoy listening to music and it is very important to me that it should sound good,, no harm in that surely? The music always comes fist with me but I do know of some who just like to have the gear and have no real passion for music. They tend to listen to 'Jazz at the pawn shop' a lot (it is often the only record they own!). I actually think that those who mock the 'hi-fi blessed' are, deep down, jealous.

you've gone and lumped all together, haven't you? And what for you is superstition is for others real improvements I can hear and am willing to pay for. Or ignorance on your part.So why knock it?

The fact that all amps or preamps are no longer equipped with turntable inputs merely reflects the fact that the mass market no longer uses turntables (yes they do have significantly different electrical characteristics that warrant more than turning up the volume). So no scam there then.

Cables and spikes and racks and surfaces let you install your gear so that it works as well as it can, and better stuff costs more money. Is ther really any reason to be surprised?

As for leaving amps on permanently, well, I let my own experience be the judge and the difference is not subtle. So on they are. Nobody needs to criticize this, just make a decision for your own situation.

And over here in Europe, we can turn the electric mains plugs aroung for best results: elecricians say this is nonsense, there can't be a difference. But again, the difference is not subtle. And this is probably the cheapest improvement anyone can make.

And on it goes David.

I'm afraid, as I'm not trained in things electrical. Well, europlugs are two pin, so you can plug them in two ways, unlike in Britain. Theoretically, apparantly, this shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference and doesn't to things like toasters and washing machines.

With hi-fi it's different. The effect is very noticeably with amps. There seems to be a best position, whereby one way has a sharper, clearer, more open presentation of the sound, whereas the other way makes everything sound less so: a bit "sat on" if you like. Over the years I've recommended friends to try this out. The effect is immediately apparant, even to those who claim there shouldn't be a difference.

I suppose it has something to do with phase, as in loudspeakers need to be in phase with each other, but this is pure conjecture on my part. If you find anything out, Fraser, do let us know.

.

Used to read almost all the Hi-Fi mags.Years ago there was a publication called Hi-Fi Review.It took a hard-line "flat earth" stance where largely the only kit deemed truly worth buying was Linn/Naim.There was a columnist named Paul Benson who was a real evangelist for the Belt stuff and would chronicle his Beltian mods each month,and describe the wonderful sound quality benefits they wrought.I was incredulous though fascinated by his columns,especially as they were found in HFR which deemed valve amps archaic junk and CD the Devil's work.I'm sure I read a piece some years later in which Benson renounced his Beltian beliefs,having realised it was all self-delusion!

I've read this strand with interest. I guess I would be classed an audiophile as I've got a pretty decent set up that I've assembled over the course of a decade. The only reason I have this is to enjoy music which is my primary passion (which is why I have a clapped out tv and bottom of the range dvd player). I really enjoy listening to my music on my system. I have expensive cables and even a mains conditioner, for me each component I've added has enriched my listening pleasure, and I also enjoy having people round to listen to music. I also recently visited the Munich High End show, which is probably the best HiFi Show in Europe (http://www.highendsociety.de/english/highend/highend_aktiv.php). Some of the stuff I listened to there was utterly phenomenal. However, there comes a point when you wonder whether you're listening to the music or the system and that is the major danger for me (which is why I've gone through 'cold turkey' as far as the upgrading drug goes). I'll admit that some of the HiFi is pretty wacky but, like all things, if you get a kick out of it what the heck...

Nothing generates more heat than the search for the hifi holy grail. I know, I followed it many years ago. Friends could not believe the money I was spending. I sold it some years ago (Naim/Linn of course) but listned to a lot less music. I recently bought a Denon micro system, thinking it would be OK. It wasn't and so off we go again but Ebay and common sense have taken the sting out of improvemnts. £1500 has generated a great system for cd, record and dab. I am still tempted by the upgrade path but I know that way madness lies!

must be buying some new tunes though*!
*yeah I know they sometimes free nowadays they've ruined a perfectly good maxim!

There's a lot of crap spouted about hi-fi. Here's the real deal (and the science bit... sorry).

1. Exotic cables. There are factors that influence the characteristics of a piece of wire connecting two audio components. However, these factors are very much out-of-band in domestic environments. So, the well-documented effect of high-frequency signals propagating toward the outer layers of a cable (known as 'skin effect') is a real and significant problem... in deep-sea communications cables, or cables that connect a microwave comms dish with a transceiver in the field of battle. The only factors that could influence the choice of cable is length (anything over about 13m will increase the series resistance of the wire to such an extent that the amplifier will begin to sound less powerful and more closely track the impedance characteristics of the loudspeaker - which means the loudspeakers will sound less even at all volume levels), cable gauge (if you are using long cable runs with a loudspeaker that has a terrible impedance curve, you need thicker cables) and how the amplifier 'sees' the speaker cable (a few older designs used the cable as a part of the circuit designed to counteract the impedance curve of the loudspeaker and if you use a high impedance cable when a low impedance cable is required - BANG!).

What this all means in reality is in 999 times out of 1,000, exotic cables are nothing more than a good way for a hi-fi dealer to make money. If you are the sort of person who bought a pair of £100,000 loudspeakers and wants to use the rest of their hi-fi system on the other side of a large room, then you need heavy gauge wire to cope. Even there, it's unlikely you need anything more butch than cooker cable. And that doesn't cost £20,000/m.

As to expensive interconnect cables and mains leads... well, there's one born every day.

2. Phono preamps. If you have a turntable, you are engaging with a pre-space age technology. The ability to amplify and equalise the signal generated by a tiny piece of diamond vibrating a metal stick in a set of wire-wrapped magnets was way beyond the ken of Mr Hi-Fi Guy, 1948. So, they invented the phono equaliser. This both compensates for the frequency alterations needed to get full-range signals onto a slab of vinyl, and the system used to retrieve that sound, without the music sounding wrong. These were standard issue with amplifiers from the late 1940s until the mid 1990s.

Fast forward to today. Most people who buy an amplifier don't listen to LP anymore and that phono equaliser was quietly dropped. Those who do play LP cannot simply plug the record player into one of the non-equalised 'line-level' inputs, because the sound will sound very wrong indeed. Those with amps without a phono stage will then need to buy a phono stage, or buy one of the increasingly rare amps that includes one. It's not just a question of raising the volume level, it rebalances the sound to compensate for the limitations required to make LP work in the late 1940s.

It's not a scam, but a realisation that people who don't use and will never use LP feel scammed by buying an amplifier with a built-in phono stage. Of course, you can spend tens of thousands on a phono stage, and then the word 'scam' becomes much harder to avoid.

3. Warm up. This is a scam, pure and simple. If you take it home and don't like what you hear, after a few hours of 'warm up' you have become more acclimatised to the sound and will like things a little better. So when it comes to 'warm up', it's not the kit that warms to the stuff, it's you. I used to design loudspeakers back when we still used butyl rubber surrounds; if anything was likely to need warming up, it's that stuff, and yet strangely 'warm up' was hardly mentioned back then.

That said, there is an optimal thermal operating temperature that varies between products. Products take a small amount of time to work at their thermal best. In most solid-state electronics, that takes about 1-2seconds for most digital circuits, as long as about a minute or so for most analogue solid-state electronics and as much as five minutes for valves.

Sorry for the long-winded post. As you can probably tell, I used to do this for a living and get really, really pissed off with the nonsense that gets passed off as 'fact' by hi-fi enthusiasts, magazines and retailers these days.

In 1997 I worked for a Hi-fi store. There is no point telling you which one, as the shop no longer has a physical form and exists purely on an audio frequency. Its name cannot be written and, when spoken, can only be heard by people who are in possession of a refined aural palette. Frankly the rest of you are better off shopping at Currys.

I remember the mounting excitement leading up to the release of Oasis’ third album - Be Here Now - which was rumoured to have been recorded at the famous Abbey Road Studios on equipment imported from the year 2078.

The day the album came out, our shop was visited by a sales rep, offering samples of a mysterious white powder, which he claimed would drastically improve the sound quality of any compact disc, cassette, or piece of vinyl. We somewhat reluctantly offered him our hitherto unplayed copy of Be Here Now to demonstrate his product on.

Having reconvened to the listening suite at the back of the shop, we watched the sales rep turn the CD on its back and use a credit card to chop the white powder into spokes on the playable surface. After letting it settle for a few seconds he explained that we would have to remove it. The best way of doing this was to roll a £50 note into a tube, insert one end into your nostril and then inhale the powder, which he assured us was completely non-toxic. This method would prevent any harmful contaminants from coming into contact with the CD.

We each took turns in removing some of the sound dust. As Larry slipped Be Here Now into our top of the range hi-fi system I was struck by a sudden wave of euphoria. Even though the genius of what I was hearing had numbed my jaw I managed to blurt out:

“MY GOD, THIS IS THE GREATEST ALBUM EVER RECORDED!”

“THAT BIT... THAT BIT AT THE END OF ALL AROUND THE WORLD WHERE LIAM GOES “LA, LA, LA”... HOW DID NOEL EVEN WRITE THAT?” replied Larry, as he stared at me wide-eyed.

“WHAT ABOUT STAND BY ME?” I said. “YOU THINK THAT IT’S GOING TO BE A COVER VERSION OF STAND BY ME BUT IT’S A COMPLETELY ORGINAL SONG THAT TOTALLY CRAPS OVER THE DISTINGUISHED SONG-WRITING CAREER OF BEN E. KING!”

There was no doubt about it. We had just witnessed the future of Hi-fi equipment and that future was dust. Lee Mavers had been right all along.

Sadly the sales rep never visited the shop again. We later heard that he had been jailed for 10 years. There were whispers within the audiophile community that Hi-fi manufacturers had felt threatened by the sound dust and had put pressure on the government to ban it. I sometimes find myself wishing that it was still available so that I could once again listen to Be Here Now as I believe it was meant to be listened to.