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Here's Where You Can Put Your "Up" Arrows, Word Blog!

Burt Kocain's picture

My inbox has been simply bursting with PMs from "that Massive", all posing the same musical question - why don't I post any more? What's happened to the pithy missives, the timely think-pieces, the tart rejoinders, the rapier-like Wordplay for which my name had become a byWord?

I'll tell you why. Just let me get this pipe going.

(SEVERAL MINUTES PASS)

It's those fucking "up" arrows. They encourage side-taking, basically. Amplify blog comments into issues. Raise hackles. This blog, forum, whatever, has become like a school playground. Your gang over there by the bikesheds, my gang over here behind the bogs.

Let the comments and "blog entries" stand as they are without needing to give them a matey "spot on!" slap on the back. Until the arrows stop flying, then, you can consider this a weapons-grade flounce.

(DUCKS IRONIC TSUNAMI OF UP ARROWS)

41

I sort of know what you mean

But sometimes its a quick way of joining in, and there are quite a lot of people who don't feel comfortable tapping out a response and are happier with anonymity.

I think the 'down' arrows were a bad thing and they've long gone but a tsunami of up arrows might just mean that people agree with the statement.

Oh god this is going to be one of those clique threads isn't it? I've never met anyone on here by the way

4
FakeGeordie | 29 January 2012 - 1:10pm

I will up a post

if I agree but don't feel I have anything to add. Also to show appreciation for a witty post.

26
davebigpicture | 29 January 2012 - 1:25pm

There's certainly an element of truth in this

And I am thinking of getting rid of them. Sometimes (mainly depending on the type of thread) they're not used as we ask people to use them, which is for when someone adds something of genuine note to a discussion, but rather just to confirm one's agreement. But we've been through this before and, as we've had proved time and time again, the threads that cause the most problems, that raise the most heckles, are those, like this one, which seek to examine what's "going wrong". This was true before we introduced the arrows, and it's still true today.

7
Fraser Lewry | 29 January 2012 - 1:37pm

Have you considered...

...a ban or some form of limitation on the navel-gazing threads? They do seem to cause more trouble than even the political/religious/football threads.

2
Gavin Adam | 29 January 2012 - 1:44pm

Certainly

And there are other forums that do just that. They can be useful for blowing off steam once in a while, but I don't really think they serve any long-trem purpose. But on the other hand, I like to keep a light hand on the tiller, and would prefer to trust the people using this site to post in accordance with the guidelines (remember, we do ask that if people have a problem with the site or a question about it, then they e-mail us directly rather than post on the board) and in the spirit those guidelines try to encourage.

4
Fraser Lewry | 29 January 2012 - 1:54pm

People will always find less noble uses for good things

In Saki's short story - The Toys of Peace - Eric and Bertie Bope eagerly open their uncle's Easter present, anticipating toy soldiers - either Albanian infantry or Somalian Camel-Corps.

Instead, at the behest of their mother, who hoping to inspire less violent play and instil civic values in her children, they find that they have been gifted with figures representing the economist John Stuart Mill; Robert Raikes, the founder of Sunday school; and Rowland Hill, who introduced the system of penny postage; along with a scale model of the Manchester branch of the Young Women’s Christian Association.

At the end of the story their uncle eavesdrops on the two boys as they play with their new toys and bears witness to a gruesome narrative in which Robert Raikes, recast as Louis the Fourteenth, lays siege to the YWCA resulting in the deaths of 100 young girls.

25
backwards7 | 29 January 2012 - 2:23pm

This kind of post

Is why we need up arrows.

8
eminentdan1978 | 29 January 2012 - 2:26pm
SpaceBoy | 29 January 2012 - 2:56pm

I can only add:

Saki was a genius. Thanks, B7.

0
man.of.soup | 30 January 2012 - 1:15pm

I have no problem with them.

I tend to use them when people have posted a picture or video and I like it as well. I see it as encouraging and a quick way of commenting without having to spend very long typing anything (Lazy joining in I suppose) Also I tend to ignore the threads that are just arguing and point scoring so that may be why.

5
Dan Edwards | 29 January 2012 - 1:42pm

If the "Up" arrows...

... weren't anonymous it would be better - I think it would stop all the ganging-up - because nobody wants to be known as a crawly, bum-licking, "hold the bully's coat while he twats someone" type.

5
Formbyman | 29 January 2012 - 1:52pm

Yep

If I were to change it, losing the anonymity is the way I'd almost certainly go.

12
Fraser Lewry | 29 January 2012 - 1:55pm

Agree

I don't use the arrows often, but seem to use them within the spirit you have outlined. Anonymity can be detrimentally used in some of the ways that the OP mentions.
It can also be gratifying to get the occasional up, so it would be interesting to know who your kindred spirits were, even when they have not posted at length themselves.

3
piggers | 29 January 2012 - 2:35pm

Also Agree

Quora uses public upvotes - I like that. But sicko that I am, I'd also like public downvotes too.

2
James EB | 29 January 2012 - 2:39pm

Yes, but isn't that a waste of time?

Given that there are only a few of us using our real names anyway. To be frank I rarely use the up arrows and find them a bit of a novelty. it makes no difference to me whether I get upped or not - it wouldn't change a stance but a well reasoned argument just might.

2
Steve Turner | 29 January 2012 - 6:07pm

Hear hear

That man.

Have an up.

2
Carl Parker | 29 January 2012 - 8:18pm

The facebook model

of at least seeing who "liked" a post is, in some ways, a good one, where the transparency of seeing who likes it is there for everyone to see. Several tomes I had posts in conversations involving a number of people with just a couple of likes and it would have been a least useful to have some idea of who that was when framing replies or continuances.

0
illuminatus | 2 February 2012 - 4:14pm

Formbyman

Erm, I do.

6
Sting Ono | 29 January 2012 - 2:29pm

I like them

I have never, to my knowledge, met anyone from here. I use them to:

Indicate agreement
Appreciate a funny or witty post - "oh, bravo Sir"
Show appreciation of a fine piece of writing. I've 'upped' posts that I actually disagree with but have been very well expressed.

Get rid of the arrows and you could run the risk of a lot of 'me too' posts, and then things will turn REALLY ugly, both literally and metaphorically

13
sitheref2409 | 29 January 2012 - 1:58pm

You're using the arrows

As they should be used. They're not there so people can say "yeah, me too", but more "that's interesting/clever/thoughtful/funny" - but they are used both ways.

3
Fraser Lewry | 29 January 2012 - 2:01pm

Spot on.

:)

2
Vulpes Vulpes | 29 January 2012 - 4:14pm

A good example

http://techdirt.com does comments well. Three buttons next to each comment. "insightful" "funny" and "report"

We don't need the "report button here but could have a "me too" button if appropriate (Disclaimer - Personally, I don't like "me too" as it feels like taking sides).

Now add in a little pop up box that shows who clicked what and you have a nice open discussion system where good posting can be rewarded.

0
VincePacket | 3 February 2012 - 11:58am

That's how I use them

If someone has nailed what I think I just up their post, rather than putting another one, though I could just as easily do an "Agree". If I can see a ganging up thing going on I pass by. Not nice, even if I don't agree with the person being duffed up.

2
Twangothan | 29 January 2012 - 3:02pm

I only became aware of the arrows quite recently.

I guess I just didn't notice them before; now, however, they're really apparent & have changed the way I view the blog. I even feel a bit left out when I don't get "upped" which is pretty pathetic & shouldn't be the point of the site at all.
It seems that they've begun to contribute to the generally negative vibe here & if we are to keep them then I agree that they should no longer be anonymous.

8
andielou | 29 January 2012 - 2:27pm

Have an up

I feel your pain. I often feel left out & pathetic too.

11
tiggerlion | 29 January 2012 - 2:56pm

Just because my OP

got a quiverful of up arrows doesn't mean I'm coming back. I'm not that easily bought. It will take - ooooh - maybe fourteen "ups" for me to climb down off my flounce.

0
Burt Kocain | 29 January 2012 - 3:31pm

You're Back!!!

.

0
Formbyman | 29 January 2012 - 4:17pm

But...

...how do you know how many of those arrows are ironic, and how many supportive?

2
geebee | 29 January 2012 - 5:49pm
SpaceBoy | 29 January 2012 - 6:46pm

A 3D up arrow

I will need to buy a new Mac and glasses to view them.

0
Uncle Wheaty | 29 January 2012 - 7:36pm

I don't mind the ironic arrows ...

it's the sarky ones that hurt.

1
Burt Kocain | 30 January 2012 - 4:37am

Format the Arrows

Perhaps a simple solution would be to make it possible to format the arrows when you give an up. Then you could have:

Normal: "I agree / Good point"
Italics: "Oh yes, great point, you've really hit the nail on the head there"
Bold: "Hoo Yeah!"
Underline: "I agree and consider myself an expert of this subject, you know"
Capitals: "I agree and what's more I am one of those NUTTERS WHO POST INSANE AND INCENDIARY THINGS ON THE BBC WEB SITE ABOUT CONSPIRACIES, MINORITIES AND POLITICAL CORRECTNESS"

3
Hawkfall | 30 January 2012 - 6:21am

I think I will finally yield to the temptation to post this

(not least because I'd never realised the none-more-Word fact that it was apparently co-written by Albert Hammond).

0
SpaceBoy | 30 January 2012 - 10:14am

I'm neutral in as much as ...

...I neither use them nor take any notice of how many "ups" a post might have. My preference, therefore, would be to get rid of them and I certainly wouldn't want to see a "down" arrow.

Post, read, reply if you want, don't if you don't want to.

2
ainsley009 | 29 January 2012 - 8:25pm

Up arrows should be linked to Massive members Pay Pal

accounts. Each 'arrow up' is a donation of £1 (or the monetary equivalent) to the poster's Pay Pal account.
You could have an opposite function too!

0
Zanti Misfit | 29 January 2012 - 9:15pm

Oh dear

I feel another "REALLY?" coming on. I realise I am a thick skinned oaf but it's only t'internet isn't it. I love an up arrow for the shit I write, I don't get many pats on the back at work or at home so it's a little shot of positive that has helped my day feel a little better. I genuinely couldn't give a flying fuck about people upping in gangs, it doesn't really hurt anyone, even if it does actually go on. Lighten up Burt and keep posting, oh and by the way come back Bob and stop being so precious. Get your big spoon out and get back to livening things up a bit. Jesus Christ no-one gets hurt. Oh and absolutely loving your work Fraser, you are why this place is the only internet I inhabit. Really people, try Yahoo or some other god forsaken hell hole. Love you all, really all of you xxxxx

25
Dave Amitri | 30 January 2012 - 1:06am

On "lightening up" ...

It's my suspicion that this phrase is used mostly by those who take things too seriously. Have an "up".

2
Burt Kocain | 30 January 2012 - 4:55am

Burt

... you're a great writer. But a mischievous rogue as well. Stop playing your evil games with us and get back to posting rude remarks about Coldplay or something.

5
man.of.soup | 30 January 2012 - 1:19pm

What this place needs

is a huge "I'm not commenting on this thread" arrow, especially for people who are studiously avoiding certain subjects in order to not exacerbate things, but would nevertheless like everyone to know that's exactly what they're doing in the mean time. You could shape it like a big rosette.

0
skirky | 2 February 2012 - 1:02pm

That's the

Nick Clegg option.

2
Burt Kocain | 2 February 2012 - 1:15pm

How about a huge

"Biting My Tongue" status flag?

Not that I ever do, unfortunately

0
FakeGeordie | 2 February 2012 - 1:30pm

I mainly use them to indicate agreement.

Unless someone posted an attack on me rather than my thoughts, ideas, yes I do have some occasionally) or tastes/preferences, I wouldn't stop posting on a forum - too thick (skinned?) for that.

I sometimes feel left out of some threads where there is communication between members who obviously know each other, or meet at mingles, but living in the W. Midlands, it will probably remain thus for now.

You can't please all of the people all of the time, as Abe said.

Although some of the people some of the time is good too.

0
Badlands | 2 February 2012 - 1:53pm

just on the subject of mingles

there have been a few W Midlands mingles, I think. I was saying to Steve Turner that I'd like to pop up for the next one (I think they tend to revolve around eating curry. This is a good thing).

and if you ever fancy a trip down to That London, would absolutely love to see you at a London mingle.

0
Hannah | 2 February 2012 - 1:59pm

West Midlands

Hannah is right we did talk about a Birmingham or West Midlands one - although only 4 of us attended it was very good indeed and when we arrange the next one we would love you and anyone else to attend. Given that the best curries in the country are in Birmingham it is a good option to take over a Curry House but it will be a democratic process - we will of course need to take up Hannahs promise to attend because like Mr Kipling she does make exceedingly good cakes. We never had anyone as famous as the Beatles but Broad Street does have Hollywood style stars for the likes of Tony Hancock, Ozzy Osbourne and Julie Walters amongst others.

0
Steve Turner | 2 February 2012 - 2:18pm

Seconded

I missed the last one due to "family illness" but am up for the next, subject to "family illness" (same for London and NW).

I don't think the regular get togethers of Steve and I for gigs, or round at each others houses count (minglets?).

Was only thinking the other day that we need to organise another as its 3 months since the last now.

0
el toro calvo grande | 2 February 2012 - 2:36pm

Not Wanted on Voyage

I PM'd someone saying I was interested in Birmingham mingle, and they responded saying they would let me know, but heard no more.

0
Badlands | 2 February 2012 - 3:52pm

Looking at your profile photo

I can't say I blame them.

0
Sting Ono | 3 February 2012 - 11:17am

Is that true

about bats always turning left from a cave?

0
Burt Kocain | 3 February 2012 - 11:27am

Sure is.

I read it on the internet. Case closed.

0
Sting Ono | 3 February 2012 - 11:37am

Ouch

That Hurt !

But as Earthworm Jim would say...

Grrroovy!

0
Badlands | 3 February 2012 - 11:45am

I'd never heard

of Earthworm Jim so I just googled him. He looks a lot like you.

1
Sting Ono | 3 February 2012 - 11:58am

Don't think it was me

but if it was I apologise.

When we organise something else locally feel free to join in. Where in the Midlands are you and do you go gigging much? Steve Turner and I are often out at gigs and a new playmate would be more than welcome, especially an old overweight one that wouldn't show us up too much.

0
el toro calvo grande | 3 February 2012 - 2:09pm

Terrible giggles now...

An up arrow wasn't enough - thanks

0
FakeGeordie | 3 February 2012 - 2:41pm

Coventry (SW side)

yes, do like gigs and as regards old, overweight - I resemble that remark!

0
Badlands | 3 February 2012 - 2:55pm

Only quoting from your profile

If I'd been more exact I could have used the full "well overweight" quote which, when we meet, I'm sure you'll concur applies equally over here as well.

I'm Dudley, Steve T is Lichfield so we tend to meet up in Brum centre, with the odd venture to Warwick Arts Centre.

0
el toro calvo grande | 3 February 2012 - 3:04pm

Hmmm ...

Coventry, "south west side"? Earlsdon? I was born there.

0
Burt Kocain | 4 February 2012 - 1:52pm

Earlsdon

Indeed.

0
Badlands | 5 February 2012 - 1:39am

I'd like to point out that

last year's Mingle On The Mekong was deemed a great success by all who attended (me). I'm exchanging emails with myself as a result, and look forward to mingling with myself again later in the year for what I hope will be an annual event. There'll be a lot of catching up to do and it's always fun "putting a face to the name"!

4
Burt Kocain | 2 February 2012 - 2:39pm

I'd give you an up arrow for that

Except I know you don't like them.

3
el toro calvo grande | 3 February 2012 - 2:10pm

can I just say

that you can not really duck a tsunami?

2
Ozmium | 3 February 2012 - 6:07pm

Well, you can

but it won't do you any good.

0
illuminatus | 3 February 2012 - 11:20pm

I regretted using the "tsunami" word at the time but

couldn't think of anything better. An "agincourt" of up arrows?

0
Burt Kocain | 4 February 2012 - 1:54pm

A Quiver

of up arrows surely? Good to see you back in the fold Burt

0
Dave Amitri | 4 February 2012 - 2:57pm

Duck Tsunami...

I suspect Fraser has a recipe for that somewhere.

2
Adman | 4 February 2012 - 2:59pm

Though I'm sure

B7 has Duck Tsunami's first album on a now mangled cassette.

0
SpaceBoy | 4 February 2012 - 4:07pm

Wasn't Duck Tsunami

a New Wave act?

0
Burt Kocain | 4 February 2012 - 4:13pm

No

that was Duck ! Tsunami.

Quite different.

0
SpaceBoy | 4 February 2012 - 4:29pm
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