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Help, the second..

Declan's picture

(Already posted this yesterday, sank without trace..)

I've been doing my nut since 1974 about a piece I heard on FM radio in America.

About 20 minutes long (so an entire LP side), it was jazz-rock of the earliest variety, not necessarily with horns (just can't remember). It certainly had plenty of thrust and virtuosity. At the end, the DJ said what I took to be Compass Rising. This has never got me anywhere, possibly something similar misheard?

So Massive: any ideas out there?

0

My first guess

Eruption by Focus

Here's an extract


2
Ahh_Bisto | 21 January 2010 - 2:29pm

Oh my goodness me,

that brings back memories. Moving Waves is still up there in my top ten albums of all time.

Declan, even if this isn't what you heard that night, and if you haven't already got it, try to get a listen to the whole album, it's fabulous. One side is tracks of conventional length, while side two is the epic 'Eruption', a tiny part of which you've seen here.

2
Vulpes Vulpes | 21 January 2010 - 6:26pm

Me too

First LP I bought out of my own pocket. On hearing it played on the family gramophone my Mother was heard to remark "They don't play other people's songs then".

Saw a recent version of the band a year or two ago. And they played "Eruption" all the way through. Even without Jan, it was still magic.

0
fortuneight | 21 January 2010 - 8:42pm

Terrific band..

and a fantastic album, oh yes. Saw them live in Dublin in '75 or '76 with successor Burt Ruiter on bass, even got my programme autographed by all 4.

0
Declan | 21 January 2010 - 10:31pm

Here's another clip…

For me, this is a fantastic example of a band playing with true taste and empathy.

0
David Rothon | 22 January 2010 - 9:46am

Seen Akkermann recently?

He's still a helluva guitar player but has turned into a bit of a "kinderschreck" i.e. the sort of guy who scares kids.

0
Declan | 22 January 2010 - 1:53pm

I seem to recall a beret was involved last time I saw him

On him that is, not me. He hasn't lost his chops but I did find what he played inaccessable. He knew he was expected to play "Hocus Pocus" but kept fannying around with it to the point that I wished he hadn't bothered.

0
fortuneight | 22 January 2010 - 2:16pm

Thanks guys..

but I know this album very well. No, it wasn't a quartet, it was a bigger line-up..

Cheers anyway.

0
Declan | 21 January 2010 - 7:34pm

This is really giving me a headache!

I've been trying to work out what it could have been.

I thought maybe something by the early incarnation of Chicago, but I've been looking at their song titles and nothing springs to mind.

The 'whole side' thing should narrow it down... not many jazz rock groups did songs that long.

1
Patrick Crowther | 21 January 2010 - 7:40pm

Thanks for your efforts Patrick..

and of course you're right - a whole album side should indeed narrow things down.

What else? Well it was an instrumental. And at that time, jazz-rock was just starting to be used as a term, after the first albums by Billy Cobham, Retern to Forever, Weather Report, etc. I suppose, at a pinch, it could have been some prog band like Gracious or Quatermass or Soft Machine.

Compass Rising, anyone???

0
Declan | 21 January 2010 - 8:10pm

Lucifer Rising?

If it is the above piece - then there are two possibilities. One that it is Jimmy Page's work for Kenneth Anger's film of the same name. The film was a celebration of Aleister Crowley. Page failed to deliver a completed soundtrack.

So, sometime later - Anger turned to Manson acolyte and convicted murderer but sometime musician - Bobby Beausoleil - who was given permission by the prison authorities to record music for the album. This is the more likely option given your date reference.

The album has 6 eponymous tracks numbered 1 to 6. No 5 is over fifteen minutes long. No. 6 around ten. Incredibly, it's on Spotify

http://open.spotify.com/album/5pk3Fu369hrE00HdQai0jY

It is a dark and fascinating tale and a little Googling and You Tube-ing around the names and titles above will find you some, um, interesting things.

The two clips below are first - an extract of the Page work - and the second Beausoleil's

I've had a bit of a listen to the Beausoleil thing - first time ever -and despite the music - being made by a deranged individual - it is not without beauty and charm

Listen with the lights on - and unchemically assisted - may be sound practice

May the angels be with you

Page

Beausoleil

1
Sheev | 21 January 2010 - 9:40pm

Closer and closer, Sheev..

but still no cigar, although I'm discounting nothing before hearing those long Page pieces you mention. Only snag is - Spotify is not available in my "territory", aka Germany. I'll stay on the case..

Shall also check out the other stuff you detail and report presently.

Oh, and with you too, and your lovely kids1

0
Declan | 21 January 2010 - 10:16pm

..kids!

(smile)

0
Declan | 21 January 2010 - 10:18pm

might it be

John Hiseman's Colloseum..Valentine's Suite maybe?

0
Bingham | 22 January 2010 - 1:47pm

'Fraid not..

keep thinking Bingham.

0
Declan | 22 January 2010 - 6:41pm

How about

Brand X and Isis Mourning ? (is that close to Compass Rising?)


0
Ahh_Bisto | 22 January 2010 - 2:08pm

Also 'fraid not..

I know it and it isn't. More suggestions please Bisto.

0
Declan | 22 January 2010 - 6:43pm

Oh please let this one be it!

This feels like watching a likeable person on Who wants to be a Millionaire getting closer and closer to the Big One...Compass Rising...Isis Mourning....there's a good chance....C'moooon!

0
The Fat White Duke | 22 January 2010 - 3:57pm

No you c'mon..

How many chances has a man got of finding a long lost record if not with the help of the multitudinous compendious massive? Not like you can go down the local record shop anymore and whistle it, is it? Ignore the goddamn thread if you don't like it but no need to be calling for its curtailment just because...oh, sod it, we've had enough middlerabbiting to be going on with. Have a nice weekend, man.

Meanwhile, massive, I'm so grateful for any and all suggestions.

0
Declan | 22 January 2010 - 6:39pm

I'm still working on this...

Can you recall anything more specific?

Was it definitely 1974 when you heard it?

Was there a featured instrument... guitar, sax, trumpet?

Would you say it was funky or widdly-widdly?

American / British / other?

Was it entirely instrumental?

Very experimental or did it have a tune?

0
Patrick Crowther | 22 January 2010 - 6:51pm

Definitely Summer ' 74..

entirely instrumental, long guitar and keyboard soli, tend to think there were no horns, definitely tuneful, prog-ish and jazzy and widdly!

Thing is, Patrick, I had all the usual instumental stuff in my collection at the time, so post-Miles stuff (Mahavishnu, Miles' Bitches Brew, Billy Cobham's Spectrum, RTF's Where) as well as European prog (King Crimson, Yes, VdGG, Focus, Amon Duul). The tendency was definitely to the American, let's say commercialized end of electric jazz, so there would have been some black guys involved, probably being prodded on by some business-sussed svengali, telling them, "This is what them pot-smokin' kids are buyin' now!"

But it WAS 20-ish minutes long and very well-played by absolutely top musicians. It (literally) pinned me to the wall. And this was daytime FM radio!

Keep thinkin'

0
Declan | 22 January 2010 - 7:45pm

Declan, words failed me

I was actually really willing you to find the answer to the question that had been bugging you. I was referring to you as the likeable guy..I'd found the thread to be really interesting and when I said c'moooon, it was meant in the same spirit of excited encouragement as that which you feel when the striker of your favourite team is bearing down on goal in a cup final: it was in no way meant as an expression of exasperation with the thread! What prompted me to post was the fact that I actually thought that the suggestion above my post might have been close enough to actually be what you were looking for and I wanted to be online when you found it! I hope you do. That's what the massive's for...Have a nice weekend and sorry for any misunderstanding or hurt feelings I caused you. Our threads are special and important to all of us and I'd never diss another man's.It's not my bag.

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The Fat White Duke | 23 January 2010 - 3:10am

Everything's cool..

slight misunderstanding on my part Vorgongod. Delighted to know you're rooting for me like so many others. Well, I was 19 when I heard this piece, now I've just turned 55 and, call it anal retentive if you like, it's never left me. But it's the way music lovers are, eh?

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 9:59am

Steve Hillage

had an album called Fish Rising

Aftaglid


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Ahh_Bisto | 22 January 2010 - 7:28pm

Know it Bisto..

but real nice to hear again. Yeah, this kind of sound and soloing, bit more jazz chops.

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Declan | 22 January 2010 - 8:50pm

Must admit all I could guess was Carla Bley

or Mike Gibbs, so clearly no help, I'll be genuinely interested to see how you get on ...

0
NickW | 22 January 2010 - 8:51pm

Got quite a few Bley albums..

like Gibbs, she tends to work with bigbands. Which it wasn't. Cheers Nick.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 4:03pm

Ash Ra Tempel

Amboss (compass ?)


0
Ahh_Bisto | 22 January 2010 - 10:00pm

Actually new to me..

very nice and propulsive too. I'll see what else of theirs is on You-Tube. Isn't it though. More ideas?

Bisto, you might like what TLJ Bukem does, the genre seems to be called liquid funk, from about the early noughties. Still trying to track down a guitar wig-out thing he did which sounds a lot like Fish Rising with a computer-generated driving beat.

Oh, and the new Mojo free CD is also worth having.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 1:42am

Do you mean the Syd one?

I haven't given it a spin yet, it only arrived this morning.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 10:41am

Monstrous Psychedelic Bubble ..

it's called, no Syd in sight. It's actually old and found music from way back updated in a dj mix sense and moves forward very pacily indeed (at least until Donovan arrives). But definitely worth having.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 11:00am

Ooooh, I thought that one was horrible.

Loads of really good psych and freakbeat songs ruined by some twerps with computers.

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Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 11:35am

Twerps with computers..!

I really am laughing out loud at this! Better forget the Bukem then, he's one as well, ho-ho!. Oh, and as a German speaker, let me tell you that Amboss means anvil.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 3:52pm

John Klemmer comes to mind,

but he'd have had Waterfalls out at that time, and it's too awash with echoplex sax to match your description.

Hmmmm, still pondering...

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 10:36am

Not discounting anything..

don't really know Klemmer, I must admit, think I've got a single piece on a sampler. Did he do side-long tracks with guitarists? Is Waterfall the one to get?

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 11:15am

Curse of the keyboard short cut.

aaargh

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Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 11:45am

I've just dug out the vinyl to check...

nope, no side long tracks. It may be that my memory of it having had loooooong tracks is a figment of the time warping effects of my chosen refreshments at the time I first heard it.

He's fairly prolific, and I only have two albums: the aforementioned Waterfalls and a later one called Cry credited to 'John Klemmer - Solo saxophone', which includes a track called 'Waterfall' that echoes the original album. If you like trippy jazz rock in an embryonic chill-out stylee from 30 years before Chill Out became a genre, Waterfalls is worth hearing, but I have a feeling it's starting to edge into the 'Available from these sellers' zone on Amazon, which usually means some rotten sod is asking £30+ for it. Drop me a line (winks).

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 11:46am

John Klemmer

Waterfalls


0
Ahh_Bisto | 23 January 2010 - 11:29am

That's the fella.

Thanks Bisto.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 11:43am

Sound like

Can you direct us to a song that is *very similar* ? might help jog the old brain cells

0
Beany | 23 January 2010 - 11:43am

Came across this....

"Capricorn Rising" by Don Pullen , know nothing about it other than it was released around 1976, and sounds "jazzy". Help, anyone?

0
iggypop | 23 January 2010 - 1:05pm

Quite right Iggy..

Pullen was a jazz pianist and organist, who died back in the ninties. He was never a fusion type of musician, more old school, and was generally thought of in connection with Mingus (one of the greats). But I know nothing about Capricorn Rising, yet. Thanks.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 2:10pm

Rather in this sort of mould..

only long and building and intense

sort of like this (please excuse the quality)


and a groove a bit like this


0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 1:30pm

Deccers -

do you think it might have been long-lost prog rock legends Ozymandias the Hellebore from their legendary opus Annals of the Lenten Rose?

It sounds like it might be the side long "Excavation of the Underling Kind of Theocrates" which featured Moog, Crumphorn and a speeded-up sample from a local boy-scout troop's accapella rendition of Deep Purple's "Blooodsucker". Could it be that?

1
Sheev | 23 January 2010 - 5:07pm

He's asking about side one, though

surely ? ... *that* was side two.

Where is Stephen Potter when he's needed ...

0
NickW | 23 January 2010 - 5:11pm

Music of German Origin (Mogo)

I won't call it Krautrock - as it seems less than politically correct now

So - perhaps could it be Monchengladbach based Mogo free-jazz "Larm Macht Frei" art-warriors Ahnalplug?

Fronted by Gunther Schmerzen and Uli Braunkrapp - their star flamed briefly before Schmerzen criticised Braunkrapp's famous mung bean stew which he would cook up nightly in their Oberkruchten squat.

The damage to their relationship was irreparable and their reputation rests on their 8 track only release Kosmischen Aufstand

0
Sheev | 23 January 2010 - 7:03pm

Krautrock is what it's called over here as well..

so on that basis , let's ditch all thoughts of PC-ness.
"8 track only" - that's just brilliant! Got me in stitches now, you have.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 7:24pm

Well, cheers, Declan old son,

I didn't even have the pleasure of hearing whatever the heck it is on AM radio in the United States, BUT NOW I'M BLOODY WELL HOOKED ON KNOWING WHAT IT WAS YOU HEARD TOO, you swine.

Next time you remember a half-dreamed listening experience from the depths of time, do us all a favour and just hum it to yourself occasionally, OK?

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 23 January 2010 - 5:14pm

Out there somewhere..

Okay everyone, I do appreciate that my half-a-lifetime-spanning wild goose chase is starting to grate.

However, the piece of music in question is OUT THERE SOMEWHERE, probably sold as well as anything else of its ilk, and is presumambly languishing in one of your collections.

The ideas so far have been, given what I could tell you, spot on. Thanks so much for bearing with me - you Massive are special indeed.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 5:50pm

I should say it's not grating

as such with me at least--I'm just taking the p***-in a perfectly friendly way.

I am genuinely hooked now to see what it'll actually be ...

The Potter ref was just to the sage of "Lifemanship".

0
NickW | 23 January 2010 - 5:58pm

We're rooting for you Dec

- but talking of "grate" - it's not them is it? The old Dreadful Grate - in some bootleg of one their trademark wandersome never ending boogie meanderations is it? Sounds like a Grate type title

0
Sheev | 23 January 2010 - 6:34pm

Stimpy, our resident expert on all things..

pertaining to the aforementioned "Dreadful Grate", where is he when we need him?

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 7:10pm
Patrick Crowther | 23 January 2010 - 5:55pm

Very useful site..

thanks Patrick. Obviously, it'll take a while to go through. Presently...

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 7:17pm

I wonder if an email to Allyn Shipton

might be worth a go-he has very broad tastes in jazz and might have a good idea or lead

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006x41z

0
NickW | 23 January 2010 - 6:20pm

A bit of a long shot..

to be frank, but why the hell not. This thing is not going to leave me in peace, even after this thread has run its course. I appreciate it Nick.

0
Declan | 23 January 2010 - 7:27pm

I can't stop

watching

0
James Blast | 24 January 2010 - 6:01pm

Could it have been this?

They were previously a straight-ahead rock group, and this was a new direction for them at the time. I hope you like it...


1
Pax Romana | 24 January 2010 - 6:48pm

I've not forgotten

...I'm still looking out.

This is fun.

0
Ahh_Bisto | 24 January 2010 - 8:49pm

Something to keep us ticking over..

y'all ain't heard this in a while.
Warning: widdly and demands attention span.


And this might be your introduction to a fine but obscure British band (whose bassist died recently). RIP Jeff Clyne


0
Declan | 24 January 2010 - 10:41pm

Is it Fat Mattress?

"Irridescent Butterfly" - played again and again?


0
Sheev | 24 January 2010 - 11:10pm

Well, No..

but it might well be a leading candidate for weediest vocal ever. And to think that Hendrix tolerated this chap in his band and even let him do the occasional album track (litle Miss Strange, anyone?).

0
Declan | 25 January 2010 - 12:16am
NickW | 25 January 2010 - 3:46pm

Miles, my man..

can't be caught out there, Nick. No, not Miles, great though Big Fun is. More good suggestions?

0
Declan | 25 January 2010 - 6:56pm

it seemed unlikely

just worth a try

0
NickW | 25 January 2010 - 7:15pm

Another question...

Do you know the name of the radio station you heard it on?

0
Patrick Crowther | 25 January 2010 - 7:26pm

No idea Patrick..

but it was in Albany/Troy/Schenectady in upstate New York. Have you got a brainwave pending?

0
Declan | 25 January 2010 - 7:59pm

I just thought that if you knew the station name...

then someone out there might have playlists from that time. It's just possible.

0
Patrick Crowther | 25 January 2010 - 8:35pm

I have been wondering since you posted

what the phrase "Compass Rising" could mean. One clue is that it is the emblem of the El Paso Museum of History. A Texan/Southern connection ?

https://www2.elpasotexas.gov/history/_documents/Entire%20Press%20Kit%20i...

Also seems to be a popular name for yachts.

0
NickW | 26 January 2010 - 8:35am

Larry Coryell

had a '71 album called Barefoot Boy with a 20' track called Call To The Higher Consciousness, lots of guitar and piano. I can't find a definitive clip of the track but it is in the background of this bloke's video of his junk drawer. Obviously.


0
Ahh_Bisto | 26 January 2010 - 10:11am

Eureka ..ka ..ka

http://ricklawn.com/category/recordings/compass-jazz-quartet

The band self produced an album entitled, “Compass Rises” in 1971 that featured original compositions written and arranged by Lawn and Ives.

See http://www.purevolume.com/compass

3
NickW | 26 January 2010 - 7:44pm

Yay

Good work Sir.

0
Fraser Lewry | 26 January 2010 - 9:19pm

more info here

This copy of LP has gone but should help you track it down

http://cgi.ebay.ca/COMPASS-RISES-Private-1973-Ohio-Rhodes-Modal-Jazz_W0Q...

and this may be an online file source (can Stimpy advise on safety ?)

http://thatsallritemama.blogspot.com/2009/11/compass-on-schoolhouse.html

1
NickW | 26 January 2010 - 8:04pm

Yeesss!! You beauty!!!

Nick, I'm truly awestruck. That it alright, local band, never rose above obscurity. Brilliant! Eureka indeed.

To you and all the other "Massives" who took part in this particular chase, I take my hat off to all of you and herby declare this session terminated.

Hope I can return the favour sometime, somehow.

0
Declan | 26 January 2010 - 8:19pm

I enjoyed it

pure virtual hunter gathering ... and someone else's money.

Good luck in finding it in LP or electronic form (I'm a bit chicken about those MP3 links-tell us if you find one that works).

1
NickW | 26 January 2010 - 8:23pm

Will do..

but it's the LP I'll be wanting. Obviously very rare, did you see that price bid? But special music, I'll b**n you a c**y! The others too. Eventually.

0
Declan | 26 January 2010 - 9:11pm

I'd try emailing Rick Lawn as well

you never know--he might have an idea or two

http://www.kendormusic.com/composer/lawn.htm

and http://ricklawn.com/

I did indeed see that rather large sum---that's what I meant about someone else's money ;-).

0
NickW | 26 January 2010 - 9:18pm

Nick W

If I could give you ten arrows I would! Declan, y'see, the massive will *never* let you down: no matter how arcane the grail. I'm absolutely *delighted* for you!!! BTW all the other stuff posted by the massive has given me an education in an area of music I'd never much bothered with before..Bring on the next treasure hunt! We're making dreams come true here folks....

1
The Fat White Duke | 26 January 2010 - 8:43pm

Aw cheers Mike..

you're so right. Scary, isn't it, how close you can get to being friends with people you mightn't ever even meet? Out there somewhere. Makes me feel very humble - and it was only a record, way back.. Hey, see you for a pint sometime, c'mon!

1
Declan | 26 January 2010 - 9:01pm

Should your travels ever take you London

Just email me through the website....Once again, delighted for you!

0
The Fat White Duke | 26 January 2010 - 9:04pm

Okay..

man.

0
Declan | 26 January 2010 - 9:12pm

I can...

breathe again.

Well done Nick!

now I gotta hear this tune

0
James Blast | 26 January 2010 - 10:21pm

Two of the three links here seem

to work and haven't apparently broken my home PC yet ...(third one is zero length)

http://thatsallritemama.blogspot.com/2009/11/compass-on-schoolhouse.html

perhaps Declan could tell us if either is the one he heard.

0
NickW | 26 January 2010 - 10:26pm

cheers man

I went for 'Sour Cream' as it was album side length

you do know I expect greatness now?

0
James Blast | 26 January 2010 - 10:34pm

Having listened to the 2 tracks..

may I observe the following:

Mission accomplished, this MUST be the album, given what we knew.

What doesn't stack up, however, is the fact that there isn't a side-long track in sight.

Also, the music is pleasant but rather ordinary-sounding fusion. Not exactly the conflagration I've been imagining for the last 35 years.

Probably need to think this through in peace, in terms of possible shifts in taste and gains in knowledge of jazz on my part: the former probably negligible, the latter almost definitely colossal.

Not that disappointment is the overriding feeling, this could offer (me)food for reflection that will presumably help (me)in the long run. Let's give it time. I need to sleep on this.

Thanks everyone, you've been Massive.

0
Declan | 26 January 2010 - 11:19pm

perhaps they played something else by the group

that hadn't been commercially recorded-and then plugged the album ? A suitably diplomatic query about whether the station might have had such tracks, to Rick Lawn, might get you an answer.

I find actually tracking these things down can be a *very* mixed experience-- e.g. this week I have been surprised by how pedestrian the BBC radio Foundation Trilogy was, and in contrast how surprisingly good the one ep of Edward Woodward's "1990" online is.

edit: Also, take a look at the sleevenotes
http://img1.iwascoding.de/1/2009/11/16/ECF50877B0B34EBF904DDB49CA7CA47C....
-some of the other tracks sound more like what you mentioned, maybe ?

0
NickW | 27 January 2010 - 12:22am

Good point ..

certainly the geography of the band, the recording, and the radio broadcast suggest a local phenomenon on which Lawn might very well be able to shed some light. I'll try emailing him in the coming days.

Quite frankly, the album tracks are all around the 5-minute mark and therefore offer little hope of the intensity I had in mind. Unless one of the album sides is incredibly seamless..

Anyway, Nick, you're a hero.

0
Declan | 27 January 2010 - 12:59am

Didn't help

with the hunt as my knowledge of prog jazz fusion is pretty limited. I was, however, going to unhelpfully say that perhaps your recollection of what you heard had might have been less than accurate.

I know it;s happened to me a few times where I heard something years ago which, at the time seemed like the best thing ever, only to finally track it down and be somewhat underwhelmed.

I often think that the first hearing, unannounced, sprung on you with no time to prepare yourself, is the best and that it's downhill from there.

0
el toro calvo grande | 27 January 2010 - 9:18am

Difficult to make a final judgement..

Peter, but the facts as they stand support what you're saying. I was into fusion at the time, and subsequently went the whole hog by immersing myself in proper jazz, the whole tradition up to and including free energy playing and all shades of deconstruction in between. Never, I might add, losing sight of the Beatles, Steely Dan, Hendrix, J.S.Bach, Motown, and all the rest. My taste is broad. And time is long.

I guess it's been just too long and it's hard going back. As I intimated above, though, this can only help to give me some perspective on myself. Chasing a chimera, we've all done it, eh?

So be warned,Massive!

0
Declan | 27 January 2010 - 1:28pm

We certainly *have* all done it, I'd say ...

your experience moved me to go and look again at this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2005/apr/30/jonathancoe.arthurconandoyle

superb essay by Jonathan Coe on his lifetime quest for Billy Wilder's "Sherlock Homes":

It is important for some things to remain lost. A quality of evanescence is central to cinema. Despite the video revolution, a film should not be like a book, something to take down from the shelf and open whenever we want. You mustn't slip a copy of Sansho the Bailiff out of its case, and skim through a few minutes on your DVD player when you have a spare moment. It does violence to the medium. Cinema owners and TV schedulers are the real gods of film: a movie is something we should only see when somebody else shows it to us

Of course I have a copy of The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes on video, but I don't watch it very often. I even have, on tape now, the audio and video versions of those missing scenes. But it comforts me to know that they are still incomplete, and that there remain other scenes from the film which are lost, perhaps irretrievably. This is how it should be. After all, I have not really been searching for the complete film all these years. I have been searching for something even more unreachable: trying to recapture, somehow, the sense of wonder, of security, of happiness I felt when I first saw the film on that Sunday evening, when it made me forget, for two blissful hours, my fear of returning to school the next day. It is that young self I have been trying to bring back to life. And perhaps my grandfather, too, who loved Sherlock Holmes almost as much as I did, and died 14 years ago but has revisited my thoughts every day since.

The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes is maybe not a masterpiece, in any of its versions. Do we even know what the masterpieces of cinema are any more? But to me, it is always *the* film.

0
NickW | 27 January 2010 - 9:13pm

The flip side

Can't argue with any of the above, but the flip side is the chance that Declan would have rediscovered something genuinely inspired. When Napster first came out, I remember the thrill of reacquainting with music from my youth. Specifically, I remember downloading all of The Ikon by Todd Rundgren's Utopia, some of which is widdly widdly nonsense, but there are passages of it as sublimely melodic as anything he has done - and listening to it again was like discovering it afresh.
So, the moral of the story is, don't give up on the quest.

0
Nick Duvet | 27 January 2010 - 9:35pm

Indeed

as I had also wanted to say, so thanks for saying it much better. My excerpting didn't really capture the two sides of the coin-Coe's essay in full does, I think-and is rather moving.

0
NickW | 27 January 2010 - 9:47pm

I wasn't suggesting

for one minute that any of us, in a similar situation, should hesitate in case of what we find. This sort of thing is an itch that must be scratched.

If anything, I find the converse is true. Stuff you had dismissed years ago as rubbish can often sound fantastic when heard through more tolerant ears. My collection is full of stuff I would never have given houseroom to 20 years ago.

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el toro calvo grande | 28 January 2010 - 9:44am

Big fat 5 skin doobie of Durban Poison

= time dilation right off the Hawking scale.

Net result: 5 minute Jazz Fusion track is experienced as endless sea of noodling brilliance, and is embedded in Proustian circuits as entire afternoon of funktastic jazztabulousness.

Admit it, Declan, you were refreshed when you heard it first.

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Vulpes Vulpes | 28 January 2010 - 6:52pm

I read that as

the Hawkwind scale

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James Blast | 28 January 2010 - 7:14pm

I'm still convinced

it was Ozymandias the Hellebore...

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Sheev | 26 January 2010 - 10:39pm

that;s the long lost

second album --- too rare even for eBay ...

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NickW | 26 January 2010 - 10:50pm

I know what it is!!

It's on the tip of my tongue...it's...it's...it's gone. Sorry.

Good game this innit. Next challenge please.

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Beany | 27 January 2010 - 1:22am

I'm no noodle-jazz fan myself,

but can I just say that this has been the most compelling and revealing thread I've read since I started lurking around these parts. It's got it all: nostalgia, desperation, head-scratching, soul-searching, discovery, disappointment, melancholy and a truly enriching sense of community engagement. It's like one of those heartwarming slow-news-day stories where the entire population of Arimo, Idaho downs tools and works together to rescue puppies that have fallen into a disused well.

If you're reading this, staff, can we make this a regular feature in the magazine? Can we get people to submit their half-forgotten unGoogleable fragments of history so that the Massive can give their memories the redux treatment?

Please?

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Pax Romana | 28 January 2010 - 10:47am

I'm not so sure

While it has been a brilliant thread, the immediacy of the web lends itself much more to these kind of requests than print does.

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Fraser Lewry | 28 January 2010 - 11:08am

especially 'cos

what I had to do in the end "was* Google

compass jazz

amnd skip all the stuff about Joshua Redman. It was finding the right keywords, not too many, not too few.

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NickW | 28 January 2010 - 9:16pm

The author of the thread takes stock..

For me, this thread has been a rollercoaster ride, from several angles.

The itch (thanks Peterb) needing scratching was identified (thanks Nick). End of story? Well, the immediacy of the web (thanks Fraser) meant not having to scurry after a long-deleted LP for 300 bucks, you could hear it, or at least some of it, right now, in real time (thanks Nick).

That it failed to thrill me like it did back then launches, of course, the soul-searching (thanks Pax) bit. There are very few opportunities as clear-cut as this for comparing an experience and, crucially, your memory of your eveluation of that experience, with the same experience and its attendant evaluation 35 years later.

It's not just a matter of being underwhelmed (thanks Peterb) or inspired (thanks Nick Duvet)or even deluded, this is a basic object lesson in how the same stimulus (Compass Rises) can elicit almost diametrically-opposed reactions in the same subject, me, ranging from electrifying to ho-hum. 35 years apart!

And what has changed? Obviously not the music, I've changed, me! This is the astonishing bit, the sheer extent of it. I'm not a temps perdu kind of guy, yearning for my youth, thay hasn't been an issue since my middle-age crisis, some while back. No, this is a cleanly-defined, clearly-identifiable watershed, which is likely to make me reconsider and shake up many of the givens in my life. Only a question about something once heard on the radio, now a thruster boost, a kick in the ass, to keep on developing and improving as a person. Seriously!

Finally, thanks Massive. I feel at home and among friends here, even though it's only words in my computer monitor. Isn't life miraculous?

For this and everything on this thread (and indeed others)

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Declan | 28 January 2010 - 7:39pm

A revolution in the head

"He not busy being born is busy dying" as the man said--so more power to you, and I hope you'll use this experience in any way that works for you BUT I'd still suggest a quick email to Rick Lawn, or posting here

http://www.purevolume.com/compass

which another band member seems to read, just to check you didn't hear a one-off recording-as they were obviously doing gigs in that era and had more material than what is on the album e.g.

Ives, along with Lawn, wrote and arranged "What is Man?" an ecumenical jazz service that featured "Compass," church pipe organ, vocals, a baritone soloist, and a narrator with an accompanying slide presentation. It was performed in New York City and later produced for television by Iowa Public Broadcasting.

Their list of "covers" sounds a bit broader than the classics of pre-Miles jazz:

Compass" performances are multi-directional, displaying a diverse variety of jazz compositions to include original material, along with tunes performed by the great jazz masters. To follow is an abridged list of jazz artists with accompanying tunes that "Compass" has previously performed: Miles Davis [Solar, So What, 81, Footprints]; Horace Silver [Jody Grind, Mexican Hip Dance]; Duke Ellington [Take the A Train, In a Sentimental Mood]; Charlie Parker [Billie's Bounce, Au Privave]; Thelonious Monk [Straight No Chaser, Round Midnight]; Cole Porter [Night and Day, I Love You]; Sonny Rollins [St. Thomas, Doxy]; John Coltrane [Mr. PC, Resolution, Bessie's Blues]; Rodgers and Hart [Have You Met Miss Jones]; George Gershwin [A Foggy Day, Summertime] ; Keith Jarrett [Lucky Southern]; and Antonio Carlos Jobim [One Note Samba, Wave and Triste].

But I'm not about to second guess you.

Anyway, the tale says an awful lot about memory and how we shape it--a great interest of mine, having a rather idiosyncratic memory myself. I'm still, myself, learning to appreciate the wisdom of this:

Sometimes I think audiophiles are crazy. If the point of it all is our love of music, we often forget that the brain is where it happens—not in CD players, cables, or speakers. The most dedicated music-lovers—musicians—usually aren't audiophiles. For them, listening to a recording means appreciating the music in their minds and imagination, not as a sound coming from speakers.

I often think of a scene in 32 Short Films about Glenn Gould. The piano prodigy is maybe eight years old. He sits motionless, head in hands, next to an AM table radio as it blares out a slow, graceful symphony. The sound is just awful, the strings distorted into a whine of white noise. But for the young Mr. Gould, that's quite beside the point. When he lifts his head, he's tearful, distraught, and powerfully moved by the music.

Gould reached through the sound into the music, and then through the music into the composer's soul—and he found something powerful. Sonic fidelity (or lack of it) was incidental. He could have listened to that music through a tin-can telephone.

But you won't hear anyone talk like this in an audio salon, or in the audio mags (except, perhaps, for this one). Those magazines are not called The Audiophile's Neurons or The Absolute Auditory Cortex or Neurophile. They're mainly about equipment, and they reinforce our habit of externalizing our auditory pleasures. We believe not only that our favorite recordings will sound better with, say, the latest and greatest amplifier, but also that we'll enjoy them more. Why does the promise of a better musical experience always lead us to listen to other components—to glowing tubes on a shiny chassis, or piano-lacquered speakers? We might as well look inward to see if we can better appreciate and understand the music we already hear in our listening rooms.

---from http://www.stereophile.com/thinkpieces/300audiophilia/#

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NickW | 28 January 2010 - 8:49pm

Second guessing not necessary...

cheers Nick, still intend getting in touch with Lawn, soon as I get around to it.

Your Gould story takes us very close to a nod to some shade of) a Constructivist world view, whereby each and every perception is constructed new in our heads, input from the environment playing only a minor role. As you know.

Nice story too, even if things audiophile are, in fact, EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. IMO. Tentative thumbs up, then.

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Declan | 28 January 2010 - 9:56pm

As a former Rega and Sondek owner,

current Arcam Solo owner, etc etc (many many posts passim), I'd not disagree with you-and I'm sure the writer wouldn't really either--just thought the Gould description was a nice bit of writing, was in two minds about including the outer paragraphs as a bit OT.

Also, re: the posts a bit higher up I am reminded of the view that some of the wiser 80s audiophile writers took, that a key final ingredient of a system was a good single malt ;-).

One of the most extraordinary moments of the Eno documentary last week for me was when this remarkably passionate and yet sane man exclaims (about 7 mins in) "god I hate remembering ... it's all past, you know" --- A constructivist if ever I saw one ...I liked the quote he had on a recent Word spine which was something like "the world has to be continuously perturbed to keep it interesting", or something like that. Actually you have reminded me that I need to finish this book
http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~dsweb/searching.html
and see if I can find others in the same league.

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NickW | 28 January 2010 - 11:00pm

As a current Sondek owner...

can I just say that the wise audiophiles were/are right on the money!

Yes, the Schacter sounds very interesting indeed. Must check it out. Another Harvard man with a rather wider brief (language as a window into human nature, no less) and entertaining and very funny with it, is Steven Pinker. His "The Stuff of Thought" might just be to your liking.

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Declan | 29 January 2010 - 1:08am
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