Entertainment For Lively Minds
Help! Old man befuddled by modern pop
Bear with me on this. Don't let the next sentence put you off.
Earlier this morning I heard Cheryl Cole's new single on the radio for the first time. I'd managed to avoid it (by accident, not design) until now. What a bizarre piece of work it is. It's not the music itself that's odd - it's a perfectly well-executed example of early 21st century smooth pop music. It was the vocals that bothered me, or rather the way they're presented.
The song is called Fight For This Love and the vocal performance sounds... well, it's hard to describe really. Freakish is one word I could use. Amazingly contrived could be a useful phrase too. Unnerving and a bit creepy would sum it up as well.
Listening to it, it's obvious that it has been cobbled together from multiple takes - nothing unusual about that in itself, of course - but it's been overlayered and multitracked in such a way that the overt cut-and-pasteness of it becomes a major feature, a badge worn with pride. It bears the sticky fingerprints of Autotune too, but again that's no surprise. Modern pop innit. Compared to the heavy-handed manner in which Autotune is often employed, this example is relatively restrained. It still manages to make her sound unnatural though, the way it pulls in the notes like some sort of musical magnet as her voices ascends and descends.
The overall effect is that it sounds as if the producers decided not to even attempt to cover up her vocal limitations. Instead, they've turned it into a combination of open secret and selling point: "We know she struggled, you know she struggled, let's all just pretend it's supposed to sound like this".
There's no way on God's sweet earth she could ever reproduce the song live, but I don't imagine for one moment that it was produced with that intention in mind. It exists purely as a marketing tool for her, and for downloads, radio play and mimed TV performances, all with the overall aim of helping to justify her position on a TV pop talent show judging panel, and to help promote the show itself.
Pop music is supposed to be disposable and throwaway and temporary and of its time, but good pop has staying power greater than the sum of its parts. In the case of Fight For This Love, it's hard to see it lasting anything beyond a few short weeks. It'll be number one I'm sure (maybe it already is/has been number one - I have to admit I haven't looked at the charts recently) but can it really earn enough money to make it a worthwhile commercial venture? Or am I totally missing the point here?
This isn't a rally against modern music/kids today etc. I'm genuinely puzzled.
Given it's supposed to be at death's door, how comes the music industry is still able to produce and release this sort of product? Does it really make them a healthy profit, or are they in such money trouble that even the small amount of profit such tracks generate are seen as reason enough to justify their release?
Does anyone have any idea?
Oh, and for those of you who are curious, here's the traditional end-of-post YouTube link of the song in question. WARNING: it's a bit catchy.
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I never made it to the catchy bit
"Is it better, is it worse, are we sitting in reverse."
Off.
I heard it this weekend
(my niece insisted I listen to it...)
I found the lyrics so cringe-inducing that I didn't even notice the quality (or lack of same) of the singing.
In defence
I haven't listened to it, but if it's been assembled to sound like some kind of weird sonic Peter Blake collage in sound, then that's ok. Try anything once. But I wouldn't want everything to sound that way.
There are words?
I hadn't noticed!
Good vid though
I'd love to hear Simon's opinion
Just go with your gut instinct; this is not good pop music.
I think
we had a right to expect better from Cheryl, given that she's a Girl Aloud, which is surely the best pop group on the planet. But I must say the vocal didn't strike me as being particularly odd or creepy, just -- as you say -- overworked. Nadine is the one with the lungs in the group, so it'll be interesting to hear her solo effort.
Records like that make me feel slightly ill...
because of the way they are made. Any hint of personality or life suffocated out of them through the abuse of technology. I struggle to even hear the lyric or melody because I haven't got the patience or the will to dig down beneath layer upon layer of studio fake tan to find them.
I would like to say at this point that I love pop music, but not when it sounds like that.
Awful.
Ah Patrick, you've stolen my thunder...
I saw this thread and was all prepared to reply with a long screed about how how all character and humanity has been removed from pop/rock recordings by excessive editing and treatments. You've said in a couple of sentences what I would have rambled about in many more, and a fraction as clearly.
There's even software that removes breathing from vocals. Why?
Don't Worry 4-Eyes...
...It's not meant for us. And even the kids who it is 'meant' for haven't gone rushing out to buy it - they haven't made the financial/emotional investment that you made in singles 20/30 years ago (I'm guessing). It will have just landed in their digital lap much like 99% of most current modern culture (we had to go and find it, they have it wired straight into their young and lithe mainframes).Though even Les Grey's and (certainly) Brian Connolly's vocals would have been tweaked by a Chinn or a Chapman or even a Most. So, you've just gotta let go and realise that the past is a different place - we did things differently there.
Sacrilege!
I've seen Mud play, in their heyday, and they were bloody good, so leave Les out of this tawdry affair.
As you were.
Blipverts
It's also not meant to be long lasting: it's an advert for the album, but more than that, it's an advert for Cheryl Cole and the juggernaut that is her presence across the media these days. 'Artists' like Mrs Cole don't have a back catalogue, they have a showreel.
Not on my radar
Is she really a juggernaut across the media? I think it all depends on which cross section you intersect with. I saw 10 minutes of X Factor on Saturday for the first time (I was mesmerised by the awfulness of one of the acts and couldn't change the channel) and when they showed the panel I had to ask "who's she" when they showed her. To me, she's one of those people that often gets mentioned but is never on anything I watch. Same as the rest of her group - I had to make a special effort to listen to them.
She is everywhere
Across the 'mainstream' right now, but these days it's not that hard to avoid that flow of things if you so choose.
But she is being sold/moulded/pushed in a similar fashion to Victoria 'Posh' Beckham was a few years back, only with a certain amount of 'this is how it's done' role model status too. How you can overcome your roots sort of stuff.
I don't chose to avoid
I do chose what I watch and read and listen to but I rarely deliberately avoid things unless I'm pretty sure I won't enjoy them. It's actually quite irritating hearing people talk about shows like Simply Come Dancing and not knowing what they're talking about (I've watched it a couple of times but the music is just awful). I think I have fairly mainstream tastes as far as television is concerned - I'm even an avid Corrie viewer and you can't get much more mainstream than that! My point is that if I've avoided her, it wasn't deliberate and, apart from the X-Factor, I really have no idea what other show she or her colleagues might be on. I've just looked up the top ten TV shows on the main 5 channels and I couldn't see which of any of them she/they might have been on.
This might seem like a rant. It isn't supposed to be, I think it's just an illustration of how wide the mainstream is.
Old men
are meant to be befuddled by modern pop music.
Playing it live
She'll be performing it (which isn't neccessarily the same thing as singing it) on next Sunday's X Factor results show. Given that the show puts so much emphasis on live singing I'll be interested to see it, espacially as unless something unlikely happens in the mean time it will be the first time I've heard the song. That said, I remember Britney on the X Factor last year and she not was not only miming, but appeared to mouthing a completely different song.
I had to watch it twice.
Just to make sure about those leather trousers.
It reminds me of Shania Twain's pop production - she's even got a mid-Atlantic twang to her voice.
Ticks all the current pop boxes:
Black, white and red 80s aesthetic - check.
Funky dancers - check.
Dressing a bit like Janet Jackson on the cover of control - check. (OK that might just be this video...)
It's post-post-modern innit?
I can't hear or see a lot wrong with it, for a 2009 pop record. It's fluff & it's meant to be. No different to much of the 80s output of Stock, Aitken and Waterman. Disposable pop has been with us for a while (ironically). In 20 years when they write the history of this decade in pop Girls Aloud & Cheryl Cole will get a mention - they might even play this on the clips show.
ah
so i'm not the only one who thought "janet jackson"
also, i remember flicking thought a (?) spanish fashion magazine once upon a time that was trying *so hard* to be an anglo style publication and somehow failing ... CC also reminded me of that; something essential missing (something that, say, kylie has that cheryl doesn't)
(sorry cheryl, nothing personal)
It also seems to be borrowing from
70's Ilsa movie series which has only been done about a million billion times before.
What fascinates me about videos like this....
...is that they're a sort of self-piteous glorification of the artist. It's got that bruised tone of voice that they use on TV ads for high end perfume. It only exists as part of a bigger plan - to get people to love and adore Cheryl Cole.
"...bigger plan..."
On the basis of no proper research whatsoever (and excluding myself from the sample group), it seems to be working, David.
It should be remembered, though, that very few of the population are employed as nightclub toilet attendants. There are worse things to have bruised than your tone of voice...
It's been working on me for some time
I even wish I was Ashley Cole at times. Well, just bed times actually.
Ok, I *have* listened to it now
It's slick, over-produced and a bit dull. And she should eat something. If you close your eyes, though, and just listen to the song it goes straight in one ear and out of the other. It doesn't stick in your head and is actually rather forgettable.
It's not offensive to me, just not that interesting. Next...
I'm not surprised she can't sing
What with wearing all those tight clothes. She needs to loosen them a bit. Or better still, take them off altogether. Purely for the vocal effect, mind.
Amazingly, it's *worse* than I'd anticipated
I don't care about Girls Aloud. I've only heard two or three of their songs, and, as others have said, I'm happy to accept that it's Not For Me. What I would admit, though, is that those songs I've heard have been bloody well put together, and do their thing with terrifying efficiency. Cheryl Cole's single is nowhere near even that good. It's dull, unmemorable, plastic, trite. It seems to have been run through a computer program whose sole purpose is to root out any traces of humanity or soul that might have strayed in. The singer could be anyone. It's as bad as Victoria Beckham's singles. That's seriously bad.
By the way, another artist I know next to nothing about is Jay-Z. However, I couldn't help but warm to him a little when I saw there's a track on his new album called DOA (Death Of Autotune). Would that this were possible!
Have I missed something?
Didn't Girls Aloud come from one of Cowell's popstar contests where they go through rigorous auditions, training, hat selections, singing in front of live studio audiences and having her performance critequed by leading industry experts while the viewers at home vote for who's the best at singing? If she managed to make it into the final five from the endless stream of desperate wannabes clamouring hopelessly for the opportunity to be thrust into the nation's heart, shouldn't she be able to sing?
Although, judging by all the "phwooar, gor blimmey, 'ave a bit-of-that" further up the post, I'm assuming her voice wasn't her main selling point.
Pedants Corner
Girls Aloud came from Popstars The Rivals, the pre Cowell follow up to Popstars. The public did not vote at the time. The 4 judges were Pete Waterman, Louis Walsh and Geri Halliwell.
Are you sure?
I remember the process being that a girl group (Girls Aloud) and a boy band (can't remember) was formed after the public decided on the final line-up of each.
A mixture of both
Apologies. I think the public voted, then the bottom two on each show had a sing off. The judges decided who to eliminate and yes the final final line up of each band was decided by the public.
interesting seeing that video
She had a go at the ex-pole dancer group Candy Rain on Saturday' X-factor for wearing overtly sexy clothes. Like Adman said the video seems to be constructed out of Janet Jackson's out-takes - which shows graphically how current it is. OR is that look now sanctioned for revival already? I don't know I am a middle aged man.
Video apart, as far as I can see this music is mainly aimed at tweenies up to young twenties. Of course the demographic on this website is going to think of it as a dispatch from Tau Centuri. That's the way it should be, shouldn't it? Surely we SHOULD be saying; "look at the way she's dressed, do you call that dancing? And what's more she can't even sing..." or do we want youngsters today to listen to quality stuff like wot we like? I hope not. That way leads to the sadness of; "my twelve year old has great music taste, he even loves my early Floyd albums"
Not a patch on old Posh
and in Manchester she turned up with David and Dane for a single signing session. Funny really as David did not appear on the track but signed the sleeve nonetheless...
Girls Aloud are the best proper
chart-topping POP band since ABBA by quite some distance.
Here's a couple of bits of evidence for the defence that people who've decided they are Not For Them might not have come across.
Both of these are album tracks not singles.
Agreed
See my comment above. I would have chosen Biology, though, to illustrate their greatness. It's one of their Xenomania songs -- and Xenomania at the absolute peak of their powers, I think.
It has a really weird, interesting structure, where you keep thinking the chorus is about to appear, but it doesn't, then about halfway through the song the actual chorus does appear, and it's a zinger. It sounds a lot like a Wire song, but I can't remember which one, and the fact that they can take a song like that into the charts simply illustrates what a force they are.
Their Achilles' Heel is the slowies. GA are supreme when they're fast. Listen to The Show or Something Kind of Ooh or Love Machine (which, incidentally, shares DNA with Cyber Insekt by The Fall) for proof; but they're boring when they do ballads.
It makes me laugh when people talk up someone as derivative and boring and self-regarding as Lily Allen as being the pinnacle of pop, when you have this lot and Sugababes also in the charts.
The bit in Biology where
the line "We give it up and then they take it away" kicks in musically is one of the greatest moments in pop ever.
New single's OK on first listen. I'll give it a few more plays - it took 3 or 4 for the genius of "The Promise" to hit me.
I'm not certain
that's a wholly accurate comparison.
ABBA contained within its ranks the best pop writing duo since Lennon and McCartney & two of the finest singers ever to grace the pop world.
GA are very good, don't get me wrong, but ABBA were great.
GA are a singing group, ABBA were a self contained creative force.
I know your point wasn't an ABBA vs Girls Aloud point, and I'm not picking a fight(!) just an observation.
Well they certainly look a lot better
On that, there's no doubt.
I would rather have spent an evening in Agnetha's company...
than any of those skeletal clothes horses in Girls Aloud. Proper woman, Agnetha.
Ooh
Agnetha Faltskog. Both she and Kate Bush were instrumental in my pre-pubescent self realising that girls were, 'different' somehow. Even my eight year old self went weak at the knees at the sight of the lovely Agnetha. The fact that she sang the way she did was just an added bonus. What a bonus!
Snap...
I think a small part of me still thinks that Kate Bush and I are destined to be married.
They give good single
I've really liked some of their singles.
I've hated others.
I don't think I could sit through a full album.
I think that qualifies them as a proper pop group from my point of view.
Each to their own and all that...
but for me comparing Girls Aloud favourably with Abba is like comparing Mark E. Smith and Pavarotti as singers.
also...
being 12 and fancying the girls from Abba is a tad different from being 40something and thinking of GA, "They're young enough to be my daughters, they're malnourished and I don't like this modern pop music." ... no contest really ...
Another rarely heard gem
Wait till the chorus (1.15 or so)
Set GA up against
a band like Destiny's Child (In the Beyonce days), for example, and they would not be anywhere in the same league - not vocally, not in terms of dress, presentation, depth, emotion or whatever.
We have short memories, in a musical sense.
Destiny's Child
might even be the best-selling female group of all time so you could argue that it's not a particularly fair comparison, plus they built their career on four or five absolutely massive international hits, but have very little else in the back catalogue worth hearing, whereas Girls Aloud have had a longer run of singles (albeit more modest sellers) and I would argue a better quality control -- I can't imagine them ever releasing anything as overblown or self-indulgent as Survivor, for example. They cast an awfully long shadow, but I certainly don't think it's the case that Destiny's Child are the infinitely superior band.
this ^
ah, hing on a wee minty
Destiny's Child have soul, GA don't...
er, getting my combos confused ...
apologies ...
Also
Unpretty.
Whatta song!
One only
has to listen to the Gospel Medley on the second side of Survivor to know that Destiny's Child have soul, and lots of it.
I like the single.
That's it.
MAKE IT STOP!
PLEASE!
Mimimg on X Factor
It has been reported that not only will Cheryl be miming the song on X Factor but it will also be pre-recorded.
Says it all really.
Ignore the visuals for a second...
... and then the craft involved here is entirely Xenaphobia's (forgive spelling if that's wrong but I can't be arsed checking at this time of night). take off La Cole etc and replace with 5 other female voices and you still have great pop records. Do the same with Steps (yes, I did say Steps) or with any number of similar partnerships where the window dressing is just a front for the genuine talent that makes classic pop.
You CAN extend the argument as far as ABBA but it's a far tougher one to justify
Here's the thing...
It's always been possible to prove that Pop Music has reached the end of its tether by playing a single track. What would you have thought if your Dad played you a slightly rubbish track from your youth, ad used it as proof that the whole apple was rotten. Probably the wrong way of going about it, in my opinion.
I will beilieve that its died when there's no song that will convince me it's still alive. And I can't really ever see that happenning. A song like Black Jacks shows me it isn't - and I bet most of the posters here have an equivalent.