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Has The Sun blown it?
This whole Gordon Brown letter-writing business has been massively overdone by The Sun. Their anti-Labour stance is really gathering pace, but it seems to be backfiring with a lot of people coming out in sympathy of the PM.
He's got poor eyesight and bad writing, but at least he hand-wrote a letter, rather than getting some flunky to whip one off on the computer.
The spin on this story appears to have been horribly misjudged, and what's going on now is nothing short of a hate campaign, with the mother of the soldier being manipulated and exploited. At this rate Cameron can forget about choosing curtain fabric for the foreseeable future.
As someone who worked at The Sun for two years, I'm always prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt, but I can't help thinking that they've gone too far this time, even for them.
I know there's strong anti-Murdoch feelings round here, but that aside, what do you think of the whole affair?
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Gordon Brown
ate my hamster.
If you can't
make Brown's government look like losers without decending to using the man's disability as a stick to hit him, there's something pretty seriously wrong. God knows there's plenty of legitimate ammunition to throw at him.
Yes.
Melanie Reid writes about this very subject in The Times today.
I concur.
In wars past,
the relatives of the dead got a telegram if they were lucky. Many thousands of men still lie in unmarked and untended graves around the world.
Whilst in no way a supporter of the war, or even Gordon Brown as a PM, I'm impressed that he appears to writing a personal letter to the parents of each solider. Given the other calls on his time and his disability, he seems to be making a special effort.
Quite agree
I was going to add exactly this comment but you got there before me.
Completely agree.
Sue Arnold, who also has to cope with poor eyesight, wrote a good piece in the Grauniad detailing how difficult she finds it to hand-write anything.
I don't think the conversation
between Brown and Mrs. Janes should have entered the public domain.
It seems odd to me that she recorded it.
Not that I wish to be negative about the poor woman.
Brown is the man who can do no right - so broad are the brush strokes being used, and so forgetful are the electorate that I think Cameron is safe.
I will be wasting my vote on the Liberals.
Is it legal to record a phone conversation
under normal circumstances, without telling the other party that it's being done?
Yes, with caveats.
It's possible to record a private telephone call without telling the other party if you don't intend to share it with anyone else. The moment you share it, you need to have the consent of the other party.
Technically, she's committed an offence under S55 of the Data Protection Act, via the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations.
I dont think it is
which is why if you try to record a phone call on your mobile, it keeps beeping to let the other person know youre doing it. Recorders attached to a home phone don't do that - but you are required to say you're recording.
EDIT: Fraser M above is righter than me.
How to put this delicately?
I actually feel sorry for politicians confronted with grieving mothers (and it usually does seem to be mothers), as they are on a hiding to nothing.
the mourners
at Wootton Bassett - ex-servicemen all - were universally on the PM's side (at least in the BBC's report, anyway).
When your only tool is a hammer...
... after a while, everything starts to look like a nail.
Which is my rubbish way of saying that having decided to vote Tory next year, The Sun is now going to bash Brown ceaselessly with whatever comes to hand - this week a badly-written letter, next week something else. They've certainly overcooked this, but somehow I don't think the sympathy factor will outweigh war, the worst recession in history and the expenses scandal.
PS I'm sure this doesn't apply to you Five-Centres, but in a previous life I had to deal with people from The Sun quite regularly, and they were collectively the most spectacularly dreadful people I've ever had the misfortune to have to be polite to.
I'm the very definition of good manners
It couldn't possibly have been me!
Worst recession in history?
I don't know how exactly these things are measured. If you as an individual are affected by it, it's disastrous. If you dodge the job loss bullet, on a personal level, it's not. And if you are in work with a mortgage, the low interest rates are something to enjoy, temporarliy at least. Very different to the high interest rates of the monetarism days of the '80s.
What I do know from having lived through the early 1980s, this one is nothing like as bad as that one, not even close. And my dad, in spite of having his working life ended by that 80s recession, told me that was nowhere as bad as the way things were in the 30s.
Jarrow March in the 30s, people's march for jobs in the '80s, nothing much but apathy in the 00s it seems.
I personally agree with you, but...
... I was going by the official way of measuring recession, which is number of months of negative growth, by which yardstick this is the worst ever (apparently), though as you rightly point out, recessions seem to have bitten far deeper in the past, anecdotally at least. I presume that standards of living have risen so much since (say) the Jarrow march, that notions of "poverty" and "recession" need redefining in this context (poverty used to mean no food, now it means no Sky, as they say.)
No Sky?!
*breaks down in tears at the thought*
It's interesting how
phrases like "worst recession in history" become such currency when, as you, it clearly bears no relationship to the hardships of 75 years ago, even 25 plus years ago. Say it often enough and even those of us who are doing ok thanks very much start to feel pretty miserable.
Lettergate, as with so many stories, is a perfect example of no matter what the story, you can twist it how you like. If Brown had just swept to power after a landslide as Blair did, we would first be told how wonderful he was to handwrite a letter in any case, and then be asked to sympathise at the hurried hand because he was so busy leading this breathlessly exciting administration.
As it is, they want the new soap story of the Camerons at number 10 instead and, just like Major before him, Brown is getting jumped on and dumped on no matter what the story. Can't do right for doing wrong as they used to say.
The thing that amazes me with this is the idea that they want to put out that Brown is heartless and that he cares nothing for a mother who has lost her son. If anybody knows what its like to lose a child, its Gordon Brown and to suggest otherwise, as The Sun are doing, is every bit as disrespectful as anything he has been accused of doing.
EDITED: Because my typing is even worse than my handwriting...
I agree
I don't see how it can be the 'worst recession ever' when the stats are alwaysb quoted as the worst since, oooh, about 14 years ago.
A message from someone who'd rather remain nameless
agrees that Brown is being unnecessarily pilloried for not doing enough, when he's clearly busy. They also said they don't remember Thatcher doing all this!
Thanks mystery caller!
Meanwhile...
From the Sun's website this week...

There was worse
Again from The Sun Online:
String 'em up, I say - it the only language they understand (etc)...
Mrs Janes
So, It's OK for The Sun to mis-spell her name, but not the Prime Minister?
Spot on!
Raise the double standard!!
Shame
Who will take over from Wogan now?
Seriously though, the Sun is shocking.
If anything......
This episode has shown that the PM just cannot do anything without an aide present. Brown is without a shadow of doubt the worst PM I can recall in my 40 years but this has been blown out of all proportion.
He's a busy guy, blind in one eye and fading sight in the other - a slip of the hand in hand writing a letter off his own back freehand at no doubt some ungodly hour of the morning - a little leeway perhaps? On top of which he's handling the worst economic crisis in 70 years with an equally incompetent Chancellor whilst juggling his idiot "nose in trough" MP's expenses.
Nasty and vindictive. What we've come to expect from the Sun really.
"the worst in my 40 years"?
Jim Callaghan, John Major, Gordon Brown ... given their previous track records, i don't think any of these men can be described as stupid or incapable - but all seemed to be swept up in forces beyond their control - Callaghan was at the wrong end of a wind of change (bye bye postwar corporatism and consensus, hello to 'no such thing as society'); Major surely paid the price for all those years of Thatcherism; we've had around two decades of living high on the hog under Major and Blair - as a society, if not each and every individual - now Brown has to deal with the aftermath ...
Callaghan was typified as yesterday's man, Major and Brown as objects of derision ... Oddly, I see Brown bouncing back after he gets voted out in 2010 ... a period of reflection and recuperation, no responsibilities as prime minister or Labour leader, and come 2011 he'll still only be 60 (can't see him on the rubber chicken circuit like his predecessor) ...
Probably not
The Sun has been a baleful influence on British life, with an arrogant sense of its own influence and not much puts it off its stroke for long, as its stance on its disgraceful Hillsborough coverage has showed.
It has decided to come out against Gordon Brown, deliberately announcing that it no longer supported Labour on the day of Brown's party conference speech, and it has a big barrel of muck, which it will be flinging pretty much non-stop until at least election day. It is what it does.
I'm afraid
it won't be enough for The Sun to come out in support of Cameron. Such is the over-inflated sense of their own importance I feel they will make it very much a priority to do everything in their power to do Brown down.
Expect much of the same for the next few months.
I've just had a daft thought...
As folks have said above their attacks on the PM seem to have created a certain amount of public sympathy for him, whether or not you agree with his politics.
So does this mean, if Labour win the next election, once again, it'll be The Sun Wot Won It?
The whole episode hints at
The whole episode hints at what Brown is (regardless of political preference he does seem to care) and clarifies exactly what the Sun is (a steaming, pile of hypocritical, sanctimonious........you can provide the rest).
Perhaps I need to hear more anecdotal evidence about
Gordon Brown's alleged bullying, controlling tactics when incumbent both in Number 11 and Number 10 but of late I can't help but feel a tremendous amount of sympathy for him on a human level. This most recent debacle is a perfect case in point. Like many others, I was an optimistic soul in 1997, but Blair's legacy will always be the war and the toadying to Bush (Wanna talk about worst leaders in history?)
it seems like Brown is paying for Blair's sins as I recall him being more automaton party-line follower than true zealot in his support for the war. On the other hand, the toadying to the city built the new labour 'Miracle' on very shaky foundations.'Third way' my arse.
The election of Cameron will be a sad, if inevitable event.
as for the Sun.....Irrelevant, u-turningly populist, jingoistic and wrong on almost every level.....
Re: Blair and Bush
and 'worst leaders in history'.
Events, dear boy. Events.
And, regardless of how you, I or anyone else thinks things have been handled since that fateful day, 9/11 was a pretty big event by any definition.
At the risk of opening a very large, wriggly
and unpleasant smelling can of worms...
I would like to say that perhaps better leadership, in the face of the terrible events of 11th September 2001, would have led to a reasoned, logical and proportionate response. I'd say we didn't get that. I'd say that's not just hindsight talking, and that arguments were made at the time for such a response. When faced with an act of mass murder it would be logical and reasonable to bring the murderers (or in this case their backers) to justice - that, bafflingly, didn't seem to be priority number one in Washington or London.
Fair enough
I just wanted to point out that perhaps the single most significant event post war took place when Bush and Blair happened to be in the White House and No.10.
We can all speculate about what a nice, safe and cuddly world we would now have if only that nice Mr. Gore was Potus, or if it had happened on Clinton's watch, but that's exactly what it would be - speculation.
In my opinion, it is almost inconceivable that an event such as 9/11 would not have brought a fierce response from the US, regardless of who the incumbent president was.
I wouldn't deny it.
You are 100% correct.
A fierce response was called for. But the response was made by a man with a dangerous personal agenda, with personal & business ties to the Bin Ladens and Saudi Arabia & unfinished business in Iraq.
You don't turn a blind eye to mass murder, but equally it is wrong to use it to excuse the very thing you wanted to do all along.
I don't mean to come across as a nit picker or some armchair conspiracy theorist - I know there are no simple answers & I agree with much of what you say!
9/11
was a heinous act, Dougie, of that there can be no dispute, but I grow weary of the tendency of some Americans (and others) to overstate the singularity of 9/11 as a world event, particularly in an era which has seen the end of the imperial age, the foundation of the state of Israel, revolutions in China and Iran, the mass migration of industrial production from West to East, a thirty year period in which terrorism killed thousands in Western Europe (including our own country), the rise and fall of totalitarianism, and genocide in Cambodia, the Balkans, Darfur and Rwanda.
It is symptomatic of a tendency of some Americans (a tendency we share, sadly) to see every aspect of their life in total isolation from the rest of the world, and in many ways it plays into the hands of the perpetrators of this crime.
When the towers went down I was on a bus tour of Pompeii sat next to a dazzlingly elegant Indian woman who had recently returned to Mumbai from Blackburn. I would hazard a guess that her values were as "western" as mine, and her decidedly protestant work ethic was such that she was undoubtedly more fiscally conservative than I, but when the subject turned to the attack, she merely shrugged her shoulders, raised her hands and said "they've joined the club" before indifferently moving on; I suspect, rightly or wrongly, that her response was typical for much of the world outside America and Europe.
I'm always drawn back to that dreadful country dirge "Where Were You When The World Stopped Turning" by Alan Jackson which was a hit in the US in the months after the attack. In light of the fact that terrorism (much like other failed concepts in modern warfare such as "shock and awe") is designed to disrupt our consciousness more than our landscape, he might as well of called it "Al Quaeda, You Succeeded" for all the publicity he gave them.
Yes, but equally,
I think there's a danger that we're becoming blasé about 9/11 in our numbed, media saturated age. Even now, there's a sense of unreality about it. Also, the woman you met may have used 'they've joined the club' rather than the more commonly heard 'they had it coming to them', but we should remind ourselves who 'they' are. Putting aside for now the 'legitimacy' or otherwise of the American fatalities, the remaining number of deaths were spread across 53 different nations, including 67 from the UK and 41 from India.
Anyway, my point is that this was Pearl Harbour cubed, and the idea that a non-Bush presidency would have taken a wholly different course subsequently is fanciful, in my opinion.
Sorry Dougie...
I can't agree that 9/11 was in any way comparable to Pearl Harbour. Pearl Harbour was a military act of aggression by one nation against another.
9/11 was a heinous, cowardly act of mass murder against civilians from many nations.
The Second World War claimed a total of 50 million casualties - I sincerely hope the 'War on terror' doesn't rack up the same awful score.
And I do think that George W Bush, his background and his suspect politics had a huge bearing on the US response.
Anyway, I'm off to bed now, mindful that this is the very can of worms I sought not to open. :-)
Not sure I understand.
You're right, they're not comparable at all - 9/11 was clearly worse. I don't see how you can factor in the eventual number of casualties - I'm saying that if a US reaction to Pearl Harbour was inevitable, this was even more the case with 9/11.
But hey, judging by the up arrows mine is the minority opinion.
My partner...
...first came across Gordon Brown when he was Shadow Chancellor in 1996. He was propping up the downstairs bar in The Traverse Theatre in Edinburgh, when all of a sudden he was barged out of the way from behind.
When he turned round to see who it was, he saw a politely sneering Gordon Brown next to him, who, with the help of a rather chunky aide had forced his way to the front of the queue. When my pathologically inoffensive other half gently raised a finger to take issue with said Shad Chanc, his hand was almost ripped from his arm by Gordon's thug.
The things you learn at the manse...
A theme develops...
A couple of years ago I was at a wedding, also attended by Brown. Whilst talking to the bride and groom, he gently but firmly elbowed me to the side, and started talking to them. Several (Special Branch?) goons were around, so I didn't say anything and skulked off.
Isn't it obvious?
He didn't see (a) any queue, or (b) other guests at the wedding.
Er just wondering
when it was that the sun became an important newspaper !!!. I remember about thirty years ago when i used to take a copy upstairs for a hand shandy once in a while but that's about it.
Having got into bed with Sun/Murdoch
it ill behoves GoBro to shed salty tears when his fickle inamorata leaves his bed for another.
Tawdry
The Sun's approach to this story is tawdry. It is using a mothers grief and, at worst, a flawed attempt by the PM to pay his respects to a grieving mother to sell newspapers. I do not blame the soldiers mother for her attitude or approach - she absolutely has the right to be angry.
The view from (temporarily) overseas
CNN is reporting the story and casually dropping in the fact that it is hardly seemly to critise the handwriting and spelling of a man who is partially blind.
It is terribly sad that soldiers die, and if my son was one of them I would be desparate to blame someone, anyone for it. I might well start with the government. But the fact is that soldiers die. The papers are shamelessly using the parents of the war dead for their own ends, to bash the government. The Americans have a lot more people, helicopters and equipment out there than us - and their soldiers are dying in large numbers too. Shame on the writers.
The Sun.
Gotcha!
It had to be said.
Won't make any difference
Handful of points:
- As far as a lot of the press has been concerned, Brown has been fair game for a lot of stick since he bottled it over a general election two years ago. That was a massive clanger that created the impression he isn't up to the job and it has been used, often unfairly, to interpret everything he's done since.
- Despite that, The Sun is widely seeing as having gone over the top. Most decent people are sickened by how it has behaved, and it's deservedly getting a lot of stick for it.
- Brown will get sympathy for this, but it won't turn around his fortunes in time for the election. The aforementioned retreat has determined the way millions of people see him, in the same way that Black Wednesday made millions decided John Major was out of his depth. Sometimes one incident like that will finish a politician. In a couple of years, when people can see that Cameron has a mind that can only process soundbits, a lot of them will speak fondly of Brown ... probably the same ones who have been loudly abusing him for the past two years.
- The Sun can swing a million or so votes in an election, and lot of readers will say they don't approve of how it reports something like this (or Hillsborough), but carry on buying it, and carry on parroting its opinions. One of the uncomfortable facts of a democracy ... a lot of voters are stupid.
IMHO
What stuck in my craw was the recording of Brown's 'phone call by these parasites.
Ok in the dark world of politics have a pop but when the man picked up the phone to speak to the woman what low life sat there recording it? no doubt doing a Gareth Cheeseman and cracking one off as he listened to it!!
Vermin!!
My understanding is Ms Jones recorded it herself
having turned the speakerphone on.
Psst..
(It's *Janes*)
err... I know this
I was being satirical.
Dreadful Paper (if you can call it that)
has a go a dreadful prime minister ( Big deal!) I'm sure Brown can deal with what that Ar*e rag has to say about him -Probably worth a couple of thousand votes for him, until Harriet Harman opens her gob
Vile
Unfair and un-British.
Interesting though that for all the talk of the public being sick of spin and falseness, it turns out that what they really don't seem to like is honest, flawed reality. Kind of depressing.
Editor
Isn't the new editor of The Sun that twerp Dominic Mohan, who seemed to spend most of the 90s trying to schmooze Oasis in his capacity as editor of the Bizarre column?
At least Piers Morgan used his time as editor of The Mirror to rail against the invasion of Iraq.
The Sun
does in this case appear to be a mass of incandescent gas.