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Harry Nilsson-a total waste of space?

chabsy's picture

Just watched the documentary on BBC1. I love a self-destructive alcoholic drug-addicted rock star as much as the next person, but at the end of the day what did this guy actually do? He made 2 records that I've heard: 'Everybody's talkin' and the worst, mawkish record of all time, which, to this day I can't listen to without wanting to puke, 'Without you' So what if he was mates with Lennon? They were both out of it, and I suspect Lennon wanted someone who would get pissed and not have any come back from it. Even Yoko seems to like him. So. to my point; can anyone in the whole wide world recommend a Harry Nilsson song that's any good? His version of 'Many rivers to cross" is pure shit (produced by Lennon, natch), there's another one where he's mimicking a Jamaican accent singing "put some lime in de coconut" or some such nonsense which was declared genius by some LA producer. I can't be arsed to trawl through iTunes. Jesus Christ, even arch-drunk Shane McGowan wrote a few good tunes. P.S. He (HN) looks like Guy Garvey in a few shots.
P.S. I know he had a good voice, on 2 records; not enough, Don't bring Sinatra into this.
Love and peace x

1

Without You

is a great song and Harry turned the original sparse Badfinger version (which sounds almost like a demo) into a majestic pop song with a great production.

15
mojoworking | 20 July 2011 - 12:14am

I wish I could help

but I completely agree with you. I kept waiting for a Eureka moment where the significance of HN's life and career became clear. And, although this was a very well made documentary, it never came. I have to say that the same thing was true of last week's Lennon doc, which, in terms of music, seemed to be full of mediocre old rock and roll and the mawkish / cringemaking stuff that wound up on "Double Fantasy".

1
Rufus T Firefly | 20 July 2011 - 12:15am

Nilsson documentary

I didn't realise that the BBC / Imagine used the recent documentary Who The Hell Is.... and merely used Yentob to top and tail it. At least I have saved myself buying the DVD through Amazon.
Amazingly the documentary made no mention of A Touch Of Schmilsson In The Night , the album of American Songbook that he made with Derek Taylor and Gordon Jenkins. This predated Willie Nelson; Linda Ronstadt, Rod Stewart etc etc by years and is a bona fide classic -as was the BBC2 programme where he performed the album - it's on youtube in sections. The Stanley Dorfman show is also on Youtube -in sections. The 3 man trio bit was actually a medley of Let The Good Times Roll; Cathy's Clown and Walk Right Back - amazing!
The programme also omitted The Point! Nilsson's cartoon/ album and later stage show which starred Mickey and davy of the Monkees. I found the programme frustrating as I would have loved to have heard more from his widow and children and less of the Pythons. How did Eric Idle go from being the funniest man on TV ( Pythons and Rutland) to midAtlantic bore with mullet??? Randy Newman would also have been a more relevant interviewee; Harry recorded a whole album of Newman's songs.
As regards this debate on why the 60's talent was ruined in the 70's read Joe Boyd on this in White Bicycles; he puts most of the blame down to cocaine!

2
RichardHeaven | 21 July 2011 - 11:16pm

See

my post lower down.

0
hazzard | 22 July 2011 - 11:12am

I really like

"One"

6
Pat Carty | 20 July 2011 - 12:19am

but which?

sorry.

0
DougieJ | 20 July 2011 - 12:22am

It's ace

But Aimee Mann's version is better...

1
Paul Waring | 20 July 2011 - 8:42am

Try an album

Listen to A Little Touch of Schmilsson in the Night. One of my favourite albums.

Or to recommend a Nilsson song that's any good, try I Guess the Lord Must Be in New York City.

4
Paul Wad | 20 July 2011 - 12:29am

Another vote for ...Schmilsson in the Night

Yes, it's a bit syrupy in places, but the songs are fantastic, as are the arrangements and Harry's voice is perfect for the material.

What's not to like?

0
Paul Waring | 20 July 2011 - 8:41am

Yes,

and it's very strange that this classic album, produced by the lovely Derek Taylor, wasn't even mentioned. Is it because it features Harry's then girlfriend, and the wives didn't want that mentioned?

0
hazzard | 20 July 2011 - 11:06am

Try

"All I Think about Is You" (heard briefly towards the end of the doc) and "Remember (Christmas)" (it's lovely but not explicitly Christmassy so will work in july).

And then there's "Without Her", covered by several artists including Glen Campbell and Herb Alpert.

0
KDH | 20 July 2011 - 12:41am

Remember

0
Andy Mackenzie | 20 July 2011 - 10:34am

Can't agree

Nilsson Schmilsson is a superb album (cocunut aside), as are aerial ballet and Pandemonium Shadow Show.

He had an amazing voice (in his prime). Did he waste his talent in the end ? Yes.

1
Slick | 20 July 2011 - 1:22am

Exactly

Nilsson Schmilsson is a five star album. I even like Coconut. Nothing wrong with singing in an exotic accent either. It happens all the time in the wacky world of pop music.

3
mojoworking | 20 July 2011 - 1:28am

To a point

but Coconut is the only dated song on the album.

I'd also champion Knnillssonn as a perfect Harry Album.

This sums up his appeal:

He also created the only steel drum driven song I really care for :

0
Slick | 20 July 2011 - 1:51am

Flash Eric Idle more like!

Gave up on the second one

0
bricameron | 20 July 2011 - 4:53am

Yes but

more the sentiment than the singer

"he's a pretty nifty guy
always looks you in the eye
doesn't give a damn for what's in style
does Harry"

0
Slick | 20 July 2011 - 11:03am

He was inconsistent...

..but I challenge anyone not to like this..

0
shane pacey | 20 July 2011 - 2:06am

Jellyfish were clearly listening...

The opening of this obviously influenced He's My Best Friend from Spilt Milk.

0
chilly1963 | 21 July 2011 - 8:43pm

OP

If you're going to judge a man's entire body of music from only hearing two songs, then quite frankly, your opinion has no worth.

Aerial Ballet, Pandemonium Shadow Show....Without Her, Me And My Arrow, One, even Skidoo Cast And Credits are superb.

And I've always liked Coconut. It sounds like a Bill Oddie Goodies number.

9
Zanti Misfit | 20 July 2011 - 2:06am

Agree on all points

including the Skidoo! one.

Good Old Desk - what a song.

0
Barry Vaughan | 20 July 2011 - 2:22pm

Plus

Nilsson was given the Beatles' seal of approval very early on, after they heard his You Can't Do That Medley in 1967.

That probably turned out to be a double edged-sword in the long run as more was expected from him than he could deliver.

No one can doubt that he had a fabulous voice though.

0
mojoworking | 20 July 2011 - 3:02am

You could listen to

Nilsson Sings Newman

7
Mousey | 20 July 2011 - 5:34am

I second this.

.

1
hazzard | 20 July 2011 - 10:53am

Thirded.

It's perfect.

0
Barry Vaughan | 20 July 2011 - 2:24pm

"Arch-drunk Shane MacGowan"...

actually wrote a lot of good tunes.

0
peterthecook | 20 July 2011 - 9:17am

And quite a few

good lyrics too.

1
duco01 | 20 July 2011 - 9:56am

Two further reasons to like Harry

a perfect combination of bitter lyrics in a catchy tune. And arguably two of Davy Jones' finest moments


Cuddly Toy


Daddy's Song

0
Humphrey Plugg | 20 July 2011 - 9:26am
Marky | 20 July 2011 - 10:43am

You mean

Because he comes over as a total dork when in the company of professional actors and musicians?

Or is this another one of those tired old rockist digs at The Monkees?

3
Humphrey Plugg | 20 July 2011 - 11:15am

A bit of both, including one of those tired old rockist digs at

the Monkees!

Personally I would prefer to take that line than "Frank Zappa was a dork and the Monkees were professional musicians." Because that would be a bit too far beyond the bounds of credibility.

1
Marky | 20 July 2011 - 2:35pm

what's the name of this song from last night?

there was a short piece played last night when he'd just met his last wife which went "And I feel like it's gonna get a whole lot better, better than the night before the night I met her".

I've tried googling the lyrics but to no avail.

Any ideas anyone?

0
fopeyducker | 20 July 2011 - 9:42am

Jump Into The Fire - can't beat it

'Stop with those fuckin' drugs, they're making ya mind into mush, ya hear me?'

1
StaggerLee | 20 July 2011 - 10:02am

Great call

Ace tune

1
Slotbadger | 20 July 2011 - 11:57am

The great "lost" Ronettes single

Poor Harry suffered a bit from Phil Spector going round the twist in 65/66. A great song of his "This Could Be The Night" was half made for the Modern Folk Quartet but never finished. And the Ronettes did two of his songs "Paradise" and the brilliant "Here I Sit" which weren't released at the time.

0
Richard Lowe | 20 July 2011 - 10:17am

If it wasn't for bad luck....

Harry sure was dogged by bad luck. It's just such a terrible shame that he made so much of it for himself.

But I'm grateful to this thread, as I just bought two of Harry's albums that I hadn't realised had been reissued on CD (with bonus tracks, I think). Ta !

0
Slick | 20 July 2011 - 10:27am

Here goes..........

.....for me, this long-overdue (largely excellent) film said far more about the demise from the height of the 60s counter-culture to the dire, ugly, horrible 1970s than it did about the man himself.

I am always amazed that the stark contrast between the eras never gets mentioned in such documentaries.

Where to begin?
Too much money; dreadful production, graphic design, drugs (cocaine, great for art!), clothes, hair, beards; all horrendous.

Sad because Nilsson was no 'two'-song merchant.
Check out the '67 and '68 LPs if you don't believe me.

Next time someone lazily lumps the 60s in with the 1970s just show them this.....they might as well be from different centuries.

0
ranger | 20 July 2011 - 10:48am

I don't agree with that assessment of Nilsson either

He seemed to have a similar melodic sensibility to The Beatles. Which is probably why they were so enthusiastic to attach themselves to him. Most of the songs aren't anywhere near as effective of course, but he was a better singer, and more cultured musician than any of the four. And threw it all away. `

Without You is another illustration of how important musicianship and production, is in the effectiveness of a piece of music. So much more atmospheric and clever than the original recording. But its the "writing" of course that has, until recently, earned people small fortunes.

0
Marky | 20 July 2011 - 10:53am

Am I the only one ....?

who really likes the childrens/concept/drug-referrencing concept(?) album "The Point"?

3
Mr H | 20 July 2011 - 11:11am

You've got a point

you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear

0
Slick | 20 July 2011 - 1:02pm

No

We - me, Mrs Vaughan and young Master Vaughan - sing along with the whole thing on long car journeys.

0
Barry Vaughan | 20 July 2011 - 2:27pm

Can I hitch a lift, Barry?

I could play bongos.

There's a cast recording of the stage version of The Point with Davy Jones. I've only seen the LP once at a record fair but didn't pick it up because I bought a Wynder K Frog album instead. Much cop?

0
Zanti Misfit | 20 July 2011 - 2:46pm

Davy Jones _and_ Mickey Dolenz

I have that LP. I bought it for 99p in Woolworths in Caterham in about 1984. They had a few of them, if you're able to travel in time and space. NB. It's shit.

You are welcome in our car any time. We also perform A Quick One While He's Away, so make sure the bongos can spray jets of water.

0
Barry Vaughan | 20 July 2011 - 2:58pm

Saw the film in the cinema

when it was first released. Enjoyed it.

0
Mike_H | 20 July 2011 - 9:46pm

Good point, Ranger

I really enjoyed the documentary; I think I came to Nilsson through The Monkees. When I first heard his first two albums, I was taken aback because they're not very pop or rock but there's great music there. I knew the loved-by-Beatles/wouldn't tour/party-in-LA story but was unaware of his family story, which was pretty striking. I wish they'd covered the Point! & Popeye though.

However...

As Ranger points out above, what is there to love about their LA behaviour? If ever you needed evidence as to why Paul should be your favourite Beatle, look no further than JL being a drunken, drugged up boor (while meanwhile Macca has put out Band on the Run).

Also, it's hard to watch people on documentaries like that still tacitly supporting the alcoholism that destroyed Harry's life. Eric Idle's comments at the funeral, I thought, were not very funny.

0
DrJ | 20 July 2011 - 11:38am

Ooooh! Chabsy

cause controversy by going against the norm...now go and actually listen to a couple of albums and come back with a more informed opinion..try "Pandemonium Sideshow" and then "Aerial Ballet", give em a few spins and then let's see how you feel. Off for a lie down. What utter rubbish!

0
Bingham | 20 July 2011 - 11:43am

A big hit in Holland

I love Nilsson. He's got an amazing voice.


1
Five-Centres | 20 July 2011 - 11:47am

Nilsonn - Spaceman

sorry, double post.

0
jackthebiscuit | 20 July 2011 - 8:06pm

Nilsonn - Spaceman

I remember buying this (1972 IIRC), the chap in the record shop told me, that no matter what, DO NOT PLAY THE B SIDE IN FRONT OF YOUR MOTHER.

So, I immediately went home & did so.

it started "Your breaking my heart,

Your tearing it apart,

So FUCK YOU"

The bruises took ages to fade.

1
jackthebiscuit | 20 July 2011 - 8:05pm

Personally speaking

I hate having to alter an opinion, in part in case of finding I had been wrong, so I would not blame Chabsy for sticking to his prejudices. I loathe "Without You" beyond compare, knowing full well it was not even his own song, and was just as capable of being dire when performed by anyone else. (Have you heard Mariahs?) Of his own stuff, the Point has me questioning it. Jeepers, why waste even minutes of my precious time listening to something I already know I don't like. I won't, even if I did. On principle.
Having said this, there are equally many artists I love whose music is shite.
Funny old world.....

0
Retropath2 | 20 July 2011 - 11:57am

'What did this guy actually do?'

Well he lived a pretty interesting life. He made some bad decisions but some different decisions to most 'pop stars' not all of which came off. As the programme admirably showed, he impressed the world's niggest band, he moved between wildly different genres just as he moved between being a family man (how many kids did he have at the end!?) and a drunken boor.
You'd be hard-pushed to describe his life as uninteresting. He's obviously a worthy subject for a documentary and the footage and talking heads was fresh and original, at least to me.
Oh, and finally, those two songs? Brilliant.

0
Mr Fade | 20 July 2011 - 12:27pm

I like Harry

I have no doubt he was a total twat when pissed but anyone who can produce Nilsson Sings Newman, A Little Touch Of Schmilsson In The Night, The Point and oh so many others has to get a Macca style thumbs up.
Talking of The Point, I can guarantee it'll get remade at some stage in the next ten years. Any thoughts on who'd be the special guest stars?
In the meantime...

0
McLongWhiteCloud | 20 July 2011 - 12:32pm

Sooo much better than Yellow Submarine!

.... which brings us back to the Beatles! Hurrah!!

0
Mr H | 20 July 2011 - 1:08pm

Point of order..

Referring to the OP, the worst, most mawkish record of all time is Terry Jacks' Seasons in the Sun.

Carry on.

3
Prestonia | 20 July 2011 - 1:14pm

Which is of course a cover

of this decidedly non-mawkish Jacques Brel song:

0
Humphrey Plugg | 20 July 2011 - 4:06pm

Fair point..

..but when it's delivered in French by a genuine icon, then even bad news from an Oncologist must sound cool. Jacks' version caught me when I was five years old, and it was the first intimation I ever had that the world wasn't all sunshine and Gerry Anderson adventures, (all that stuff about Vietnam and Uganda that Kenneth Kendall mentioned every teatime on the news meaning nothing). And all this by a bloke called Terry, a name nowhere near Jacques in the smoulderer stakes.

0
Prestonia | 20 July 2011 - 9:30pm

Or as we used to sing:

We had joy, we had fun,
Flicking bogies at the sun,
But the sun was too hot
And it turned them into snot.

1
Kit Hogue | 22 July 2011 - 10:22am

most mawkish recordever is Terry Jacks' Seasons in the sun.

Have you not watched TOTP 1976?

I think you will find that the most mawkish record of all time is
JJ Barrie - no charge.

Dreadful, dreadful song.

0
jackthebiscuit | 20 July 2011 - 8:10pm

Ah,

but have you heard this - top 5 in 1981...

Red Sovine - Teddy Bear.

0
KDH | 20 July 2011 - 11:16pm

No surely

Honey by Bobby Goldsboro is that. Bloody hell.

Mike Smash played it over and over again on Radio FabFM when Tessa Smash left him

From 7:30

1
DogFacedBoy | 20 July 2011 - 2:48pm

And didn't

Eric Idle look a sight with his facelift and dyed hair. Someone really should have a word in his ear.

0
bargepole | 20 July 2011 - 4:21pm

Speaking as a mid 40s-aged fellow

I thought most of the contributors looked pretty fabulous...from Mickey Dolenz to Mr Idle. The fact he reminds me of my grandmother is neither here nor there.

0
Mr Fade | 20 July 2011 - 8:59pm

Another vote for The Point

I've always thought Nilsson enormously underrated...The Point is great.

And as for Without You being the most mawkish? No, that must surely be Having My Baby by Paul Anka. Meretricious, sentimental tripe of the highest order (or should that be ordure?).

I'm not going to include the vid, I wouldn't do that to the massive!

2
Em | 20 July 2011 - 7:13pm

I've got The Point on vinyl

with a pullout booklet. Is it worth owt?

0
Mr Fade | 20 July 2011 - 9:06pm

Vinyl value

not sure - I used to have it but gave it to a friend, I don't exactly regret doing that, but I wish I'd had 2 so I could've kept one for me!

0
Em | 21 July 2011 - 2:02pm

Having My Baby

I could never hear that song without smiiling, after Robin Williams replaced the words "having my baby" with "holding my penis" in The Fisher King.

0
Kit Hogue | 22 July 2011 - 10:24am

I was irritated

with the BBC who made it look like this was a new programme when in fact it was the film Who Is Harry Nisson? And Why Is Everyone Talking About Him? with a short intro by Yentob.

1
Bruised Mike | 20 July 2011 - 7:58pm

That's what Imagine Does

They did the same last year with the Broooce Darkness On The Edge of Town doc.

Did you see the original doc? Did they cut anything out?

0
DrJ | 20 July 2011 - 8:05pm

Didn't know that

so take an up. Enjoyed it either way.

0
Mr Fade | 20 July 2011 - 9:04pm

Reasons to love Nilsson

Achingly beautiful songs about divorce

hummable songs about visiting brothels

haunting songs expressing love for Popeye

Grannies singing songs expressing death positively

A flawed human being granted. But a flawed human being with beauty in his soul. And despite what the doc implied, "Son Of Schmillsson" is his best album.

0
bixieface | 20 July 2011 - 9:45pm

Here's an idea

John Grant sings Nilsson. I'd buy it.

1
speybay | 20 July 2011 - 10:16pm

Spot on

first time I heard Queen of Denmark I thought of Harry Nilsson - it's the phrasing and the irony I think, and the playful lyrics.

0
Slick | 21 July 2011 - 1:38pm

All those...

plus the history of substance abuse.

0
Barry Vaughan | 21 July 2011 - 2:04pm

Not to mention...

the beard. Where was the man's Word cover?

0
SoundMind | 21 July 2011 - 2:57pm

Kenny Everett

Was a huge Nilsson fan and I have a tape of one of his Radio 1 shows from (presumably) 1972 where he plays the track Turn On Your Radio from the album Son of Schmilsson.

Not that interesting in itself perhaps, but here's the thing. Everett would spend all week recording his Sunday afternoon radio shows and would often construct elaborate multi track jingles and recordings of himself singing which he overdubbed onto his favourite records.

It all sounds a bit odd now, but Kenny made a lovely little three part harmony section which he dubbed onto the McCartney-esque intro to Turn On Your Radio and it worked perfectly. I must dig it out and post it here.

0
mojoworking | 21 July 2011 - 11:37pm

Harry Nilsson tribute album

I would strongly recommend 'For The Love Of Harry - Everybody Sings Nilsson' - a brilliant compilation including the likes of Randy Newman, Marc Cohn (great version of 'Turn on your radio'), Aimee Mann (her version of 'One' is as good as Harry's), Steve Forbert, the great Marshall Crenshaw, Jellyfish, Jimmy Webb, Brian Wilson, Al Kooper, Ringo, Ron Sexsmith and many more.

0
stevedickychap | 23 July 2011 - 1:37pm

The version of

Many Rivers To Cross on Harry's Pussycats album (dismissed as "pure shit" in the OP) so appealed to producer John Lennon that he used the actual string section from Nilsson's recording on his own song No.9 Dream, the second single from the Walls & Bridges album. Both tracks appeared in 1974.

Compare the two here:

0
mojoworking | 24 July 2011 - 8:09am
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