Entertainment For Lively Minds
Guitar heroes are singers
Let's face it, most so-called guitar heroes are actually singers first – to the general public – and guitar heroes to only a few blokes standing with pint in hand, peering at the FX pedals prior to the show.
Clapton, Hendrix, BB King and every other classic bluesman out there, SRV, Billy Gibbons, Jack White, Gilmour, Townshend, Hetfield, et al.
Veery few have never been near a vocal mic: e.g. Page, McLaughlin, Metheny – esp for jazz reasons.
Furthermore, the singer-guitarists would rarely even be given a glimpse into the Vallhallan halls of axe-godspersonship were they not singers. First and foremost amongst the gawkers being EC.
So the stature of a guitar hero is plinthed more on their pleasant, accessible vocals than their axe-wielding prowess which, frankly, only a minority of bestesticled fans give a fuzzbox about (q.v.).
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Funny you should say that...
I've had thought a flapping around my cavernous brain for a while (getting very lonely) about Mr Clapton. While I'm not going to bother suggesting he's anything other than a highly proficient guitar player, most of his axework lives me comatose.
And, yes, he sings too. Now I happen to think he's a pretty good singer. And in fact I'd go as far as to say that the single most compelling thing EC ever did was his vocal on Layla. It's a fabulous record from stem to stern, obviously (and Duane Allman has to take a lot of credit for that), but if I have to state one element that really gets me in the gut, it's his singing. Man, that is raw! Although I'm sure it would be a ludicrous oversimplification to say this song was what convinced her to leave George for Eric, well, it might well have contributed to it. He's pretty persuasive, no?
"axework"
Bloody hell, go and work on your keyboard chops.
"axework"
Bloody hell, go and work on your keyboard chops.
Jeff Beck barely even speaks to the audience
And that's why 98...
of every 100 people, if you stopped them in the street and asked, would say they've never heard of him. And the other two would think he was a brewer.
Like it or not, the OP's telling it like it is, Stimpy.
He could have been a contender
It could all have been so different if he hadn't been so sniffy about Hi Ho Silver Lining though.
is this right?
"most so-called guitar heroes are actually singers first – to the general public"
Some guitar heroes who are not known for their singing prowess first or even at all.
Robbie Krieger
Keith Richards
Ron Wood
Mick Taylor
John McLaughlin
Jeff Beck
Mick Ronson
Paul Kossoff
Carlos Santana
Ritchie Blackmore
Tony Iommi
Martin Barre
Robin Trower
Ronnie Montrose
All Lynyrd Skynrd's guitar slingers
Steve Howe
Alex Lifeson
Steve Rothery
Brian Robertson
Scott Gorham
Ron Asheton
James Williamson
Eddie van Halen
Neal Schon
Joe Perry
Michael Schenker
Angus Young
Slash
Kirk Hammett
John Frusciante
Johnny Marr
John Squire
The Edge
Edit; ie I agree with Sven below
Ahem
Duane Allman.
Jimmy Page.
Link Wray.
Jerry Donahue.
Hank Marvin.
Dick Dale.
John Renbourne
Davy Graham
Bert Jansch (ok he sang a bit, but noone would suggest it was his singing people were after)
A personal fave, Jimmy McCullough
Tommy Bolin (see Bert Jansch)
Had to add this
I remember seeing Wings on TOTP with Jimmy McC doing "Junior's Farm" and being blown away by the terrific lead guitar playing, the upside down Firebird and the frock coat. Still looks pretty ficking cool to me. What a great solo. And this is when you hardly ever heard guitar solos on the telly.
Sure, but...
...how many of those would the casual listener on the street actually have *heard* of? I haven't heard of some of them, and while I'm the first to admit I'm nowhere close to the biggest music nerd in the world, I am an obsessive guitar player and compared to most folk, a ridiculous pop anorak.
Maybe Keef, at a push. Maybe Slash. Maybe The Edge.
The iconic ones, as in *really* iconic - as in known outside of music fan circles - make a very short list indeed, probably consisting of Clapton, Hendrix and maybe Brian May.
I think we often forget on here just how rarefied the level of music knowledge on sites like this really is.
well in that case
if the argument here is essentially about who's known to the average man in the street that's one thing. But it renders the thread rather pointless because its self evident that the averge man in the street only knows the big pop/rock stars rather than, say, the lead guitarist of UFO.
But the original question posed was based on the premise that most guitar heroes are singers first, which is plainly a misconception.
Maybe we understand different things...
...by the term "guitar hero". I thought it meant "famous guitarist", as in properly famous, a household name.
well in that case
lets agree that most famous people, including famous guitar players, are known to the man in the street
but that most "guitar heroes" known to those of us who follow music closely can't sing.
Guitar heroes
So therefore most people know hardly any guitar heroes, singers or otherwise. The OP is trying to persuade us only the singing ones matter to the majority of the public. How many have heard of BB King? Brian May, The Edge - well known for sure and don't sing. The original point does not stand up to scrutiny, that's the thing.
I have no opinion...
...on the OP particularly. I was more interested in the idea of what constitutes a guitar hero, because I think my definition might not be the same as other people's. I was interested in Rocker's list because it struck me that almost nobody on it would be familiar to the general public, and I thought that being properly famous was a pre-requisite for guitar hero status. That's all.
Well
surely the point is that listing a load of guitar heroes who don't sing refutes the OP's point. You say they don't count mostly as not widely known. I'd say a guitar hero is a rock guitarist admired and revered by rock fans as one who is in their eyes exceptional and stands out from the pack. Doesn't everybody think of them that way? Sure a lot of people don't know who these people are - they're not that interested or big fans but they maybe like some of those records partly because of guitar parts that stand out and are exciting, they think - yeah great guitar sound but couldn't care less who did it. Not sure what the point of this is. It's obvious what a guitar hero is isn't it? You know who it is because you love the music. If you don't, well you won't know the names of those involved. It's not that rarefied to know a few musicians names is it?
If you say so.
Like I say, I thought that a guitar hero had to be famous. You say not. That's fine, I'm sure you're right. Maybe I've been misunderstanding the term.
Well it's not that important to me
There needs to be a degree of fame within a certain circle at least. I don't think it needs to be more than that though. Of course I think I am right - as you do when you post. But it's only rock'n'roll and all that. Have a good weekend.
Not famous
A guitar hero doesn't have to be famous, ie known by the average man in the street. The average man in the street might vaguely have heard of Mark Knopfler or at a pinch Jonny Greenwood. But probably not. The man in the street knows about X Factor and Strictly and similar. Guitar heros are almost by definition only known by people who are interested in guitarists. Which you have regularly told us you aren't, Bob. You don't like tiresome displays of vituosity, the stock in trade of the guitar hero, so that would explain why you haven't heard of most of them. Which is absolutely fine, I mean no criticism. Bugger me, Noel Gallagher has just come on Jools - neither great singer OR guitar hero.
As you were.
PS have tidied up some red wine so if I type out of turn forgive me.
So "guitar hero" just means "lead guitarist", then?
Why use the term at all, in that case?
It may have changed since the video game, but the original meaning of guitar hero meant someone whose poster could be expected to appear on the wall of at least one out of a hundred 16-year-old lads in the mid-Seventies. On that basis I'd propose this list of ur-guitar heroes, in rough order of likelihood of such bedroom-poster appearances:
Jimi Hendrix
Eric Clapton
Keith Richards
Jimmy Page
Ritchie Blackmore
Tony Iommi
Dave Gilmour
Rory Gallagher
Ted Nugent
Joe Walsh
Peter Frampton
Jeff Beck
Alvin Lee
By the late Seventies, a couple of those names (Alvin Lee, for instance) would drop off the list and others (Gary Moore, followed by SRV...) would join it, but I'd say the canonical GHs are those I've listed. Some might add the odd Winter brother, perhaps, but the core ones are all there, I think.
Note that there's no Howe, no Fripp, no McLaughlin... in fact none of the now most notorious "noodlers and gurners" from the period we might refer to as High Rawk.
It's a historical term, anyway. Calling Thom Yorke or Matt Bellamy "guitar heroes" is a stretch I simply don't think we can make, except in jest. And the likes of Kirk Hammett and Yngwie Malmsteen - even Brian May, really - are more like parodies of a figure long dead than the real thing.
Agree with all of that
With the additional observation that there was a 'slight return' in the '80s when Messrs. Marr, Butler and Squire would all have passed the 'poster on the wall of 16 year old boy' test.
Since then - not so much.
Lets not forget
Andrew Ridgeley, who played guitar an was hanging on plenty of walls in the 80s....
I agree with all that you say, Archie
especially the exclusion of Fripp, McLsughlin etc. A guitar hero needed more than ability - its also about the attitude on stage, the poses, the way the set is structured around the big solo pieces.
I'm not sure that, post 1980-ish, there could ever be any new guitar heroes in a non-ironic way as the currency of 'the guitar hero' became so easy to mock.
As an example, is Todd being a genuine guitar hero or is he spoofing the whole 'posing' thing?
I don't know
It has become terribly clichéd but that's why guitarists came up with other styles in rock - to avoid the cliché. Then again Slash followed the traditional approach - absurdly striking a pose on a windswept cliff or mountain top, entertaining though. Surely he was as much one as any - and idolised by a new generation for it. But I think there's more than one approach than just the old school stereotype. Why not Matt Bellamy - I'm not a Muse fan but for those who like that stuff he does the job?
Slash's solo in the November Rain video
almost defined the term 'guitar hero' - but I was never quite certain if it was serious or a spoof of the cliche. Then again, one could say that about the entire video!
The heroics start at about 3:45
No singy no likey
Slash
Jonny Greenwood
Mick Ronson
Keith Richards (well a bit)
Mick Taylor
Johhny Marr
John McGeogh
Eddie Van Halen
Robert Fripp
all guitar heroes though
EDIT - kind of an eerie simultaneous response there though Mr Ranger's was a tad more comprehensive!
Oh and Bernard Butler
The"Clapton is God" moniker
was bestowed on EC before he ever opened his gob with Cream (and even then it was rare because Cream had one of the great vocalists of his generation - Jack Bruce).
The way I heard it Jimi Hendrix hated his own singing voice and took some persuading to take on the vocal duties.
BB King and I have one thing in common - neither of us can sing and play guitar at the same time. Mind you I can't sing at all and it's probably more accurate to say I "own" guitars rather than "play" them.
Eric Clapton
Other than a track here and there, Clapton hardly sang on record at all until his solo career began in 1970.
Before that he'd been everyone's idea of the ultimate guitar hero (God, no less) for 6 or 7 years with the Yardbirds, John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, Cream and Blind Faith.
I'd also suggest that although Jimi Hendix did sing, his vocals were very much secondary to his guitar playing.
You see
in my world it goes hand in hand. * adopts Partridge voice* Orzabal, Heyward, Adamson, King, all heroes, with guitars, that sing......
Now, let's subtract..
'songwriters' from the lists of GHs above...
Simply spanking a guitar isn't good enough to make you a GH. You need to be bringing more to the fretboard.