Entertainment For Lively Minds
Great singers you can't stand; rubbish ones you love.
The Joanna Newsome thread (latest one, that is) gave me an idea. I find the idea that someone's a "good singer" to be almost worthless as a recommendation of their music. It seems to me that often, "good" singers are overwrought, hopelessly deaf to the rest of the music, and forget that their voice is only one of many instruments bringing something to the party.
So, let's hear from the Massive about:
a) singers who are technically awesome, or whose voice is constantly cited as being amazing, but whom you can't stand.
b) singers who are technically crap, or whose voice is always cited as "awful", but whom you love and would never, ever change.
I'll start.
In the first category:
- Winehouse
- Bublé
- Carey
- Daltrey
In the second:
- Mascis
- Malkmus
- Dylan
- Newsome
- More from idiotbear.
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Daltrey....
Technically awesome? really? he always sounds like he's being strangled to me.
Well...
...he's often cited as "a great rock singer", if not technically awesome. I disagree with the greatness.
Gram & Elvis
I didn't realise that Amy Winehouse was considered as technically amazing, it's her shrieking that's put me off her more recent work (previously it was the shocking music as well!).
As for people that really aren't that good but I wouldn't change, I think top of the list would be Gram Parsons with Elvis Costello a close second. I don't think it will be too long before someone suggests that the answer is actually David Bowie!
Also, this is the second thread today to mention Michael Bublé. It's strange that he's one of those people that I've heard of, seen the adverts in newspapers etc but I don't think I've ever actually heard.
You'd be surprised....
...at the number of people I know who will swear blind that Winehouse is "just an amaaazing singer". This little nugget of shit is generally prefaced by "say what you want about her, you have to admit..."
My response is usually "OK, I will say what I want about her, but I won't admit anything except the fact that she's a massive, stupidly coiffed void."
"she's a massive, stupidly coiffed void"
Sorry, this is just too extreme and - dare I say it - hateful to let slide. I'm not going to follow the "you have to admit" line, which I agree is pointless and sure to antagonise. Some people do say she's a great singer; I wouldn't go that far, and from what I've seen and heard, in concert she can be catastrophic. And given the damage she's inflicted upon herself, it's possible that, even in the studio, her voice may be reduced to a croak, if she ever makes another record.
So what's my point? Well, I think she is a brilliant songwriter. Her lyrics are so far ahead of most of the competition that she's lapped most of them. Her tunes aren't too shabby either, especially on the first album, which I think is better than Back To Black. And her singing? Well, if you're willing to indulge me (assuming you aren't already familiar with this song), please give this song, Take The Box, a try. It's only three and a half minutes. To my ears it's a wonderful song, beautifully sung. Can you hear nothing of merit in it?
It's funny...
...that nobody jumps on anyone with words like "hateful" for thoroughly pasting the admittedly blander-than-bland Gary Lightbody's music and character. Do I detect some old-fashioned chivalry here? Ms W. is a big girl - I'm sure she can take being pummeled just as robustly as the men who regularly get it on here.
Anyway, that aside - no, I don't see it. I think the lyrics are terrifying banal, teenage and self-absorbed. Really - I'm not just being contentious. And the music doesn't do anything for me.
I'm not generally interested in songwriters who just bang on about themselves all the time. Fiction > autobiography, for me at least.
Chivalry?
Nope. I think what we have here is nothing more than me failing to understand how you can't see (or rather, hear) her talent, and you you failing to understand how I can think she's so good. Can we just agree to disagree without imputing any spurious motivations?
Oh, and one other thing. Given that she was a teenager when she wrote the songs on her first album, I'm willing to overlook their teenage concerns.
Dylan and Baez
Different kinds of music probably require different kinds of singer, and so to me a good singer is one who has the skills for his particular type of song. I know Dylan's singing is often criticised, and it has gone off over the years. But in the early days I think he was a very good singer, in that he developed a style which was ideal for his songs . It made you listen to the words, and he could distinguish the tunes. Joan Baez on the other hand, often regarded as a good singer, never makes me listen to the words, and tends to make the tunes samey. A good singer but working in the wrong style. Here's the two of them together for comparison.
Seconded..
Baez is not only samey, she can basically sing/warble only one note. Dylan's voice is now shot to hell but around Time Out Of Mind, he was even showing it to be quite sweet and melodious.
Let me add that I think the world of technically-not-so-hot Donald Fagen, grumpy Tweedy from Wilco is good as well. Such a lot of vocalists obviously have delusions of grandeur just because they have THE MICROPHONE: your man from Muse, say, or that girl from Glee I keep hearing on the radio, who starts at top volume and then has nowhere to go.
In defence of Joan
I'm not her biggest fan, especially the early stuff - banshee wailing to my sore ears. But I saw her at Dingwalls, ooh, about 15 years ago, and I liked her a lot. Her voice has "improved" in the OP's second sense as it has "deteriorated" in the first sense (ie technical purity). Diamonds And Rust is so good that I could even forgive her choosing it when she appeared on Desert Island Discs - she said "I'd like to take one of mine", which didn't seem unreasonable.
That'd be one of my Desert Island Discs
too.
Joan Baez and words
Maybe she sings like that to cover up the fact that she doesn't know the words - though I find her diction extremely clear. I always wondered why The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down didn't seem to make any sense - then I read the actual lyrics, which are not what she sings. A least one of her albums has a note along the lines of 'the lyrics sung are not necessarily those printed here'.
The clarity of her diction also makes clear in one song (Luba the Baroness) that if you're going to write lyrics in a language not your own, which apparently you don't speak, you should get someone to check them - French with excruciating schoolgirl errors.
as usual the answer is Tom Waits...
I'm not Sheev!
"God's Away On Business"
As usual
the answer is Nico. The fatal femme. Manages to be compelling and, ja, cool y'know? Despite sounding like Marlene Dietrich's transvestite uncle
Shill bild yaarp juz to brin you darn - varter klarn..
Leonard Cohen
Reading above how Joan Baez deflects away from the words with her voice, his Len-ness must be exactly the opposite, his diction is superb and it's rare that I mishear a word, yet he could hardly be described as a good singer.
Baez & Dylan singing together gives me a feeling is akin to a duet of nails/blackboard and expanded polystyrene.
Neil Young
isn't exactly a gifted singer. But who cares
Lennox...
... I know she's technically a decent singer, but I hate all her songs, her smug face and her inability to dance without looking like someone's pissed mum.
Annie Lennox is...
... the antichrist.
Sing It For Me, Brother
Strummer: Slurs his vocals, mumbles his lyrics and seems to be trying to remember them as he goes along.
Dylan: Nowadays sounds like a cross between Macy Gray and an anti-smoking advert, but his singing on John Wesley Harding and Blood On The Tracks especially is better than anything he's ever done.
Leonard Cohen: Somehow manages to convey emotion without conveying any emotion.
Colin Meloy: If Elmer Fudd had an acoustic, he'd sound like this.
Bernard Sumner
Always loved New Order, but Bernard can't sing a note. Seen them live quite a few times and although he is awful at singing it somehow doesn't detract from the show.
Albert Bouchard.
Horrible singer. But his voice is on all my favourite Blue Öyster Cult tunes.
Let's remember, it's the material, not the voice. A voice is just an instrument.
Mark Eitzel
Has been likened by the GLW to a "wounded, bellowing Oxen" and his voice is somewhat of an acquired taste, but I love it.
Peter Hammill - Very English.
Soft Celist
Marc Almond apparently has a lot of fans, and can't sing for toffee. How you can be that far off and still put material out still amazes me to this day.
Freddie bleedin' Mercury
Technically bleedin' brilliant. Fakkin' bleedin' awful.
Swimming against the tide
I was listening to Dylans Tell tale signs this week and thinking I like his voice better now than when he was Blowing in the wind. To me it is more relaxed, less affected.
Agree with Sheev though - none worse than Mercury. Bloody awful - made worse by the grotesque Brian May guitar solos.
Sound and meaning
I think that the way singing works upon us is something very different from what happens with instrumentalists. Accents, dialects, pitch—all of these, in normal conversation, create reactions in us that vary depending on who we are. The human voice is the instrument we hear all the time; guitars and pianos aren't how we conduct our lives.
My taste in singers has changed over time—often back and forth. In fact I’ve just come out of a period where I was barely listening to singers at all; nearly everyone sounded, somehow, false: certain classical pieces and early Armstrong/Ellington were mostly all I played.
I’ve also developed (for the second time) an antipathy to singers I’d describe as self-consciously “theatrical”: late-period Costello, Rufus Wainwright, both Buckleys—that type of thing. It’ll pass, but not for a while.
Strangely, though, someone like Liz Fraser, who could definitely be in that list, still works for me; I think it’s because I’m responding to her on the level of pure sound. Lyrics, and the idea of words, aren’t getting in the way.
Someone has described poetry as “heightened speech”. And that’s the way I feel about the singers who get me best at the moment. The ones who sound as if they’re talking to me: late-Dylan, Sinatra, Al Green, Paul Buchanan.