Entertainment For Lively Minds
Great Bands = The Great Solo Folly
Can any Word reader recall any seminal bands that have spawned equally essential or even greater solo artists? No? Thought so. A few examples of the "Great Solo Folly": the Stones - the world didn't exactly hold it's breath for those solo Keef or Mick efforts did it?; The Who (don't even start); ditto Dexy's (Kevin Rowland); Pink Floyd (name five solo Floyd albums?); Television (solo Verlaine/Lloyd anyone?); Specials (Colourfield - does that count?) ; that Thom Yorke album anyone? Beatle solo albums - no, not better than the Beatles ; Julian Casablancas (jeez, they're all at it!) Even Paul Weller will always be better known for "All Mod Cons" rather than whatever his last one was called. It's a weird phenomenon. Comments please...
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I wouldn't necessarily say "essential"
...but the lead singer from The Faces did okay for himself. As for 'seminal' bands - The Yardbirds, say, and a couple of their old guitar players?
I'm not the world's biggest Smiths fan but...
dare I say Morrissey?
And then there's
Genesis > Peter Gabriel & Phil Collins
Roxy Music > Brian Eno
Orange Juice > Edwyn Collins
Any Trouble > Clive Gregson
Teardrop Explodes > Julian Cope
The Impressions > Curtis Mayfield
Planxty > Christy Moore
The Longpigs > Richard Hawley
Be Bop Deluxe > Bill Nelson
The Blasters > Dave Alvin
The Bible > Boo Hewerdine
can I ask you to clarify ?
Because the ">" sign is used to mean "is greater than" in maths, I am slightly puzzled here.
Do you mean that all of these are examples of where a solo artist has emerged from a seminal band and has gone on to greater things ?
I'm not a mathematician!
I used the ">" symbol to mean that, for exmple, from Be Bop Deluxe came the solo artist Bill Nelson. I guess you could read ">" as shorthand for "begat."
Thanks
I thought that was probably the case
I agree re: Moz. I'd cast
I agree re: Moz.
I'd cast doubts on Hawley. The thread is asking for seminal bands who spawned equal or greater solo acts. The Longpigs were just a so-so indie band.
I'd agree some
Curtis Mayfield, Christy Moore & Dave Alvin all qualify under the rules, I think.
of that list
I'll give you curtis mayfield post impressions
not that I like him but surely robbie williams
robert palmer
Tony - do you disagree
with most of my list because you think the bands aren't "seminal" or because you think the solo artists aren't greater than their former bands?
Because if you're proposing Robert Palmer, ex-Vinegar Joe, I don't see how you can disagree with most of my suggestions. And I adore the first four Robert Palmer solo albums, by the way.
hmm
well I dont know some but ..the latter
i thought palmer's solo stuff better than vinegar joe
on relfection agree richard hawley
not sure nelosn better than be bop both good -certainly not overwhelmingly better
eno and roxy - not wishing to detract from eno's solo stuff which i admire those first 2 roxy albums are seminal
I think planxty's stuff has more variation than christy's solo stuff
orange juice and edwyn collins -again no clear winner
First?
Can't believe I'm the first to say it but:
Fairport - RT?
How about…
The Birthday Party - Nick Cave?
Possibles
Velvet Underground - Lou Reed
The Stooges - Iggy Pop
Genesis - Peter Gabriel/Phil Collins
Jackson 5 - Micheal Jackson
Them - Van Morrison
Partridge Family - David Cassidy!!!
And of course…
Velvet Underground - John Cale
Soft Machine
and Robert Wyatt
Buffalo Springfield and Neil Young
there's two for you
Trane
The mighty John Coltrane became even mightier after leaving Miles's band and assuming the lead role himself
The same
can be said for Miles Davis and Charlie Parker, I guess.
Here's my take
I think the best example must be Orange Juice and Edwyn Collins he must surely be one of the UKs finest artists in the past 30 years.
The others I can think of are Joe Strummer & The Clash and The Pixies & Frank Black. I think I may be cheating with The New Pornographers & Neko Case but both are so good that it's worth bending the rules. Can I have Rockpile & Nick Lowe as well?
Dearest joe
Love Joe Strummer but you can't really say he went on to bigger things.
Well
Certainly the 1st 2 Mescaleros albums are "equally essential" as Combat Rock and Sandinista, maybe more so.
But but but but.........
Streetcore is better than both the first Mescaleroes offerings.......!
OJ v Edwyn
I gotta disagree there. The greatest hits of Orange Juice would best the greatest hits of Edwyn Collins. By miles.
Fight!
Fight!
Not another one !
Come on chaps, scissor/paper/stone (or lake/bomb/cow) to resolve it swiftly, then either a handshake or a hug, please.
We don't need any more fights here
I think that's the great
I think that's the great thing about discussing, even arguing, about music with others that are also passionate about it. Most of us, at the end of the day, can agree to disagree. It's not like discussing religion and politics. If someone tells me that the best concert in the world ever was by Led Zeppelin or Radiohead then I know they're wrong and they know they're right. In a lot of these discussions we are often like minded people with different tastes. We know what we like and the interest is more in shared experiences and sometimes the posts are a spur to look at what we like from a slightly different angle.
I'm not about to start a fight though - I'm more an "I'll hold your coat" man.
And I can't fight either
It breaches my parole.
I took it as a Harry Hill call anyway - relax friends.
Jarrett
Keith Jarrett left the Miles Davis band in 1971, and has had a pretty decent solo career ever since.
Lloyd Cole
Very good in the Commotions, even better solo.
Pete Townshend's Empty Glass ...
Is a FANTASTIC album with a couple of duds, could probably live without most of Daltrey's solo effort's not that I've ever heard much, liked the 'Free Me' single though.
Not sure what the point of this post is though - not many successful band memmbers go solo and roger the world in the way their original bands did (Beyonce, Michael Jackson, Phil Collins notwithstanding) - they surely do it to let off some steam and play some music their bandmates can't or aren't interested in, or while somebody's indisposed/fed up/drugged up to the tits and won't come outside etc. It's generally a luxury available to a few rich people in their holidays but its not always by definition weak
You're so right...
'Empty Glass' is miles better than the last few Who albums and the follow up 'All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes' is excellent too.
I play those records far more than any Who album other than 'Who's Next'.
Empty Glass
Is now on e-Music Irecently discovered. I did like the Daltery [sic] first solo album with all the Leo Sayer/Dave Courtney songs.
And while "All things must pass" and "Band on the Run" or "McCartney" weren't the Beatles, they were pretty good albums.
I wouldn't want to choose between these two albums
Dexys
I know that "My Beauty" was not well received but I think that as an album it stands up to all of Dexys work. (And I was a big Dexys fan).
It didn't sell, the cover had a terrifying effect on most of the world, but what's in the grooves ? Genius. Cracked genius.
erm
can we have a down arrow for negatives as well as up arrows for positives ? God I hate Kevin Rowland. And it's such an irrational pervasive thing. I managed to go all the way from Donny Osmond to KR before reacting so badly, and have yet to do so since.
We tried them recently
They generated more heat than light.
In my opinion, I'd much rather you disagreed and explained why, exactly as you have done - that way there is some debate and we can understand each other.
The consensus was that the down arrows are not in the spirit of how this place generally operates.
The up arrows allow bloggers to agree with / praise / support a post without a chain of "Me too" posts - sometimes agreeing is all someone wants to do on a post. Also, Fraser found that the arrows are encouraging members of the community who haven't posted to dip their toe in the water.
(I've edited the original response as it was a bit clumsy first time)
Maybe we should be asking it the other way round:
How many great solo artists emerged out of the blue and without having been in a band environment first?
Apart from
David Bowie, of course.
Well he was in the Kon-Rads...
...and Davy Jones & The Lower Third.
Not forgetting
The King Bees and The Manish Boys.
And ver Tin Machine
Scott Walker
Far more interesting (if that's the word) solo career than The Walker Brothers.
The Byrds - Gene Clark
The Yardbirds begat...
Jeff Beck.
A couple of others who may qualify
Love and Money - James Grant
Rilo Kiley - Jenny Lewis
Beyonce
Beyonce is as big if not bigger in her own right than Destiny's Child.
"Julian Plenti is Skyscraper" by Paul Banks of Interpol is a really good album. It's not better than Interpol but it is an interesting piece that sits well next to his bands work.
On the pop thing
Justin Timberlake's way bigger than that boy band he was in. (Can't even remember their name.)
Zappa
Going back to the OP's original question "seminal bands that have spawned equally essential or even greater solo artists?" what about Frank Zappa? He left/disbanded one of the seminal 60's bands The Mothers, and went on to a solo career that was at least the equal.
Not sure how much the Mother's were ever a 'band' though
I thought it was always pretty much his circus - the musicians were always on a pretty close rein weren't they?
Hail Hail Rock n' Roll
In the beginning there was the Johnnie Johnson Trio and lo! the Johnnie Johnson Trio begat...
only the founder of rock n' roll...
only the lodestone...
Mr....
Chuck Berry
Cheryl Kerl?
Thought not.
Yes I can - Wu Tang
The Wu Tang Clan - the solo albums that followed their debut albums between 93 and 1997 were all excellent and in some cases better than the alma mater
Suarcubes
to Bjork
Back to Weller............
Wild Wood/Stanley Road or All Mod Cons/Sound Effects.
The latter two have the rush and exhilaration of youth, but the two solo one are "better". WW being essential.
I like Neil Young
he's been ok since he left the On My Way Home Hitmakers.
Elliott Smith
Far, far greater as a solo artist than as a member of Heatmiser.
What about...?
Gram Parsons? Originally as Flying Burrito Brothers and, sort of, The Byrds
Also surprised no-one's mentioned
Take That - Robbie Williams
Wham! - George Michael
I'll get my coat...
Yog.........
Has done nothing solo to outdo Fantastic or Make it Big. Nada!
Beyonce - Destiny's Child - maybe ?
Nick Heyward - Haircut 100?
George Michael made much better records with Wham...
than he has done in his solo career. 'Listen Without Prejudice Vol.1', my arse...
Come on
Faith is a pretty decent album - just a totally different style to the fluffier pop stuff.
And LWPV1 is just a shit title, not necessarily a shit album
Title
And, ironically, didn't the title make pretty much everybody listen with a huge, heap of prejudice!
I stand by my original comment...
George Michael's talent was for making bouncy pop music. When he started to see himself as an 'artiste' he began the long voyage up his own fundament that seems to have no end. And when he tries to make bouncy pop music nowadays his attempts are so overproduced they make ELO sound like Throbbing Gristle.
By coincidence, The Daily Mash has an exclusive
About an Echo and the Bunnymen solo venture
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-%26-entertainment/drum-machine-g...
About ...
.. 30 yrs too late for this joke.
I wouldn't like to be made to choose between...
The Sex Pistols and PiL
The Waterboys and World Party
The Jackson 5 and the Michael Jackson who made Off the Wall and Thriller
The Watersons and Norma Waterson
The Watersons and Mike Waterson
The Weavers and Pete Seeger
Spiers & Boden and Bellowhead (though I think that's possibly going in the other direction...)
How's about
Husker Du-Sugar - Bob Mould
Housemartins - Fatboy Slim
Saints - Ed Keupper
Crowded House - Neil Finn
Bluesbreakers-Cream - Clapton
Talking Heads - David Byrne
Eurythmics - Annie Lennox
One theme seems to be that a lot (if not all) of the bands mentioned throughout this thread were largely a vehicle for the solo artist in question.
Then again you've got Police-Sting.....
Robert Wyatt...
... trounces even the might of the Soft Machine.