Goth started in London you might have had an argument.

Arf arf.

I got a lot of comments about genre definitions when I published these two playlists. I think people have a very narrow idea based on either how a band looks or what they've been told by the music press. Television on some songs are very prog but some people insist they're punk. To me bands can swap genres for one song, or straddle many at the same time. Joy Division are very Goth to me but some people can't see past the lack of vampire costumes to see them as such.

Genre definitions are a lot more fluid in my mind than they seem to be in others. I go by the tone and feel of a track rather than by labels others have already applied to a band, or how they look in photos or on album covers. Just because everyone says The Cure are Goth doesn't stop me from thinking of some of their songs as being pop or heavy metal as well as Goth.

http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/is-goth-a-singles-genre
"Joy Division - Goth??
Not in my book.
Dave Holley | 12 May 2009 - 1:24pm"

Goth – 1CD Best Of (17 Songs)

Arcade Fire - My Body is A Cage
M83 - Kim & Jessie
The Cure - A Forest
Jane's Addiction - Pigs In Zen
Joy Division - Heart and Soul
Leonard Cohen - The Future
Nine Inch Nails - Closer
Johnny Cash - Personal Jesus
Siousxie and the Banshees - Spellbound
David Bowie - The Hearts Filthy Lesson
Curve - Fait Accompli
Portishead - All Mine
Auf Der Maur - Followed The Waves
Florence And The Machine - My Boy Builds Coffins
Smashing Pumpkins - Tonight, Tonight
Manic Street Preachers - So Why So Sad?
Manic Street Preachers – Suicide Is Painless (Theme From M*A*S*H)

Prog Rock – 1CD Best Of (11 Songs)

Genesis – The Knife
The Alan Parsons Project - Can't Take It With You
The Moody Blues - Question
Pink Floyd – Comfortably Numb
Radiohead - Subterranean Homesick Alien
Tool - Lost Keys (Blame Hoffman)/Rosetta Stoned
The Beatles - A Day In The Life
ELP - Knife-Edge
Television - Marquee Moon
Van Der Graaf Generator – Killer

http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/prog-rock-the-best-of

and also a Celt I'll have to disagree and replace your Goth with Mod!

The Who, The Beatles, The Kinks, The Small Faces, The Rolling Stones, Marc Bolan, David Bowie (Pin Ups was nothing more than an older man looking back at his Mod past), punk and new wave (The Jam, The Clash, Blondie, Costello, The Pistols doing Small Faces covers), 2-Tone, The Stone Roses, The Smiths (look at old footage of Johnny Marr with his Rickenbacker guitars), Blur, Oasis, the 2000s Garage/Punk thing, and most dance influenced scenes (Jazz, Northern Soul, Acid House) all share more of a kinship with the Mod thing.

It does raise some interesting thoughts that Mod and Goth have a lot in common, and have crossed over in several ways over the years though.

grumble grumble

cleaves to the Dark side, hence all those tales of Jimmy Page and his love of Aleister Crowley, or even robert Johnson at the Crossroads. People like a bit of danger.

Added to which, all the goth/proto-goth bands of the late 70s and early 80s assimilated all those early influences as a result of being art-school ponces (in the best possible way) and titting about in the left field when the mainstream was so much more straight-ahead and dull. Goth isn't really a genre, more a state of mind and, as such, it can crop up absolutely anywhere. As others have said, some so-called goth bands sometimes don't sound very 'goth' at all.

Anyway, at this point I shall hereby invoke Blackwell's Law
(http://www.chrisrand.com/hmhb/trouble-over-bridgwater/with-goth-on-our-s...). He he.

...

sorry!

it makes me laugh. Might as well claim glam as the most influential music of the last 40 years. I was a teenage Smiths fan. We laughed at goths. Too miserable, ironically enough.

I have in the past, interviewed bands with names like Specimen, Ghost Dance, Rose Of Avalanche, Balaam & The Angel, Dr & The Medics, Ausgang, Sex Beat, Rubella Ballet and Anorexic Dread amongst others.

I have been to the Batcave, seen The Mission and New Model Army and even (cough) Field Of The Nephilim...

And I must say, for all the make-up and posing and so-called dark and gothic image, the thing I remember about that "scene" most was the fun! It was a bloody laugh, not at all as po-faced as you would expect. I'd like to inject a bit of that spirit into half the current miserable little indie landfill bands around today.

Oh, and most of bands were from "up North" too!

any band that does covers of "Jolene" and "Gimme A Man After Midnight" can't really be labelled a bunch of miserable bastards can they!

Is being the 'most influential music of the last 40 years' (i.e. post 60s) something to be proud of?
I going...........'No.'

Most influential music of the 50s or 60s.........'Now you're talking.'

Cool as milk. Unselfconscious, pure, unadulterated joy.

Here's some of my favourite rockers that could have been touched by the hand of goth...

Screaming Lord Sutch
The Cramps
The Damned
Roky Erickson
Nine Inch Nails
Jesus & Mary Chain
The Misfits
Pixies
Depeche Mode (in their Violator phase)
Gene Vincent
Screamin' Jay Hawkins
The Mummies

since you mentioned 'Didn't know I loved ya...', and you seem to have been round these parts for a while - what was the buzz like when Gary Gl****r was exposed as a K***ie F*ddler? Did the message-board burn brightly that day?

The following were three of the most unusual and distinctive singles of the Eighties:

Bauhaus - Bela Lugosi's Dead
The Cure - Lullaby
Siouxsie and The Banshees - Pee-Ka-Boo

...and if we are classing these acts as Goth, then the above tunes justify the existence of the genre..

I think you're a good bloke, and I think you're a good edition to this site. More power to yer arm.

I'm just happy someone else remembers (Trad) Goth music, I don't like EMO BTW

I've just finished League of X Gents: 1910: the man should record an album. I'd love to hear some of his prose set to music. What a man, eh?

Goth, perhaps? Or bit of an old fraud a-la Garth Merenghi?

This is a copy of a thread from me previous blog - i just wanna make sure daveross sees it:

I don't want to go into it that particular period of my life in too much detail, I live in a well-dodgy council tower-block in Belfast, I'm surrounded by nutters and homicidal lunatics, so anonymity is paramount; and as I've already intimated in a previous thread on my Goth post, I'm a recovering alko with a history, so I'll keep it brief.

It was during Paul's Jammin' Records days (I think, very hazy...) - anyway, the Furs Talk Talk Talk had just been released and we both loved it. Paul, who was as inebriated as I was, could be, (and I'm sure, still is) a contrary sod, and he was extolling the virtue of said disc to aggravate a few journos at a nearby table (again, this is very foggy...) I agreed with him wholeheartedly and it was back-slaps all round.

Anyway-up, the evening ended badly (he had a row with his girlfriend) I went home and never saw him again.

One thing I can tell you, he seemed genuinely hurt by the other punk bands' attitude towards The Jam, and after seeing various docs & retrospectives, I now know why. It was actually that meeting that soured my view of London bands - like you say - he was an outsider, and sometimes, that maverick spirit and the loneliness it creates, can be as essential to your muse as the love of a good woman/man. It was his cross to bear, but it hasn't dented his determination, only strengthened it.

Good luck. Be safe, be well.

as genres tend to pass me by, my kids love My Chemical Romance if that counts. As a side issue and as you are a man of firm opinions can I ask if you are happy with Marr's association with The Cribs? To make it relevant are the Cribs influenced by goth? If you tell me you've had a night out with him too then I really am going to have a problem with you!

the fella on guitar can play a bit, I think he's got a future!

Have to say I'm not overly impressed, but too much like pub rock for me, but you can hear the guitar OK, it's just not a patch on his old stuff - but hey - what is?

And just so's yez know I'm prepared to put me money where me mouth is
check-out my own music: www.myspace.com/hudd2, and yez can give me the critical kickin' I so richly deserve!

I wrote it, produced it and played everything myself - i used me own dwindling reserves to finance it (you could say it's the last will & testament of an old soak in the midst of a mid-life crisis)

I've no one to blame but me... gentlemen, take your best shot...

Which has kept HudD busy all day.

I suspect, Hud, that you've found a little place on T'interweb that you like. I also suspect that you'll slot in a treat here. Opinions? Check. Spelling and grammar? Check. You've ruffled a feather or two. Good. And I'm not going to cross swords with someone who talks about modes. Can I remember any? Locrian. Myxolidian. Ionian. I think. Hud will explain them all to anyone who wants to know.

I smell spiced ham above

UPDATE: Oh good, it's gone.

But It's contained in a black cobwebby tin.