This has been the subject of threads before and it's something many of us find extremely annoying. And as with you, I've found the reaction that you get when you ask people to quieten down totally unapologetic and in their eyes you're the one at fault for daring to make such a request.
There's a jobbing actor who just would not shut up, despite my repeated requests, at a Ron Sexsmith gig a couple of years back at the Union Chapel in Islington. I would love to ask him, when he's sober, would he not be annoyed if he was on stage and some oaf in the audience kept jabbering on throughout the performance.

If he didn't lean, he'd have to talk even louder. If you're anti-talk, you have to be pro-lean, otherwise your position is untenable.

I experienced this phenomenon for the first time at a Seth Lakeman gig in Falmouth this week. The girls just huddled together and chatted away, as though they were waiting at a bus stop. The GLW had a word, and another lady had a more forthright one, and in the end they left.

Glad to see £16 is still loose change for some people.

Good gig by the way.

CD Walkman.
Comfy chair.
Solitude.

Why bother with gigs?

...and there's a very different atmosphere at gigs there. I was in Albuquerque and almost every gig I went to, there was a (cough) 'par-tay' atmosphere - people smoking, drinking, shouting, moving around.

I also saw Sigur Ros at an earlier date in this short tour and was very impressed despite having to peer around 4 of the tallest people in the hall. Didn't notice too much talking but the plague of camera phones was very much in evidence. However, in my experience, there is nothing like so much chat at seated venues and,if you do have to lean across to ask them to pipe down, its that much more difficult for them to poke ytou i nthe eye with all those seats in the way.

On a personal note, I find standing from about 8pm to 11pm a bit much really. In what other form of entertainment does that happen? Is the experience for the audience better standing up? I don't think so although I can see it might create a slightly different mood in the hall. These gigs don't take place in pubs; they even take out the seats from a seated venue in order to have us all standing up. To my cynical eyes, it's a way of getting more punters into a venue and is certainly not about comfort, convenience or any concern for the customer having as good a time as possible. Or am I just getting old?

I'm with you on that, drizzle. I'm old enough to remember the change from dances to concerts while at Manchester uni (cue further prog discussion here, perhaps) and how we all just sat down to listen. Went to see Ron Sexsmith recently at Manchester (coincidentally in the students' union) and was very uncomfortable standing for so long. Let's face it, Ron's gigs are great but not for dancing, so why didn't we all sit on the floor? All the other problems mentioned here many times (chattering, moving about during the quite bits, bloody camera phones in the air) plus an amazing £3.20 for a can of Guinness!

We were both weary by the end of last night and I do think Sigur Ros would have been an ideal sit down event but I suspect the financials are more rewarding at standing gigs.

In fact, I saw The Blue Nile at the London Palladium several years ago and thought it was a perfect venue for them. It was packed, with people comfortable in seats and great acoustics. And yet few bands seem to use it or similar theatres in London.

were in front of us at Wolverhampton Civic, noticed that Sigur Ros seemed to be a 'date band' (as opposed to Cradle of Filth, Yes or Einsturzende Neubauten). It was one of the few gigs I've felt like shouting turn it up at the start with all the sensitive bits. By the end it did get satisfactorily noisy, so perhaps a good dynamic range was in evidence.

... on the cd of Neil Young's Massey Hall concert of 1971 the great man is to be heard gently remonstrating with members of the audience who are firing their flashbulbs at him. Audience 'participation' is the reason I don't go to gigs anymore. I just got fed up with the talking and whooping through the quiet bits, the lobbing of bottles at support acts etc.

The other side of the coin is worth a mention too. Exorbitant prices, hanging around for ages whilst roadies go 'two, two' into a microphone seemingly forever and crap facilities. On one memorable occasion I travelled to Cambridge to see John Martyn at the Corn Exchange. Obviously somewhat 'tired and emotional', he curtailed the evening by falling spectacularly into the drum kit. I had shelled out for accommodation for that gig.

As a non-smoker I appreciate the smoking ban in venues but being married to a smoker I also appreciate there being somewhere to go for a gasper.

The MEN Arena have smoking police to eject anyone found lighting up in the bogs. Fair enough. So they should allow smokers the chance to nip outside for a quick drag. They do. But they don't let 'em back in. They are warned that if they exit there is no return - some desperate addicts have preferred the lure of tobacco to the band, despite shelling out a small fortune for the tickets. And booking fees...

These selfish sods at gigs were the bane of my life until I gave up going to shows earlier this year. I remember twenty years ago when people talked at gigs they would receive a tap on the shoulder and, more often than not, would apologise for raising their voice and would be quiet for the rest of the show.

These days you are met with verbal, sometimes physical aggression and an "I paid my thirty quid I can do what the fuck I like" attitude.

A friend of mine went to the Sigur Ros show in Bristol, I think, and was standing in front of a bunch of uni students who went to the show as Sigur Ros are reportedly "one of Thom Yorke's favourite bands." Of course, one of the cardinal rules of rock is that just because your hero likes a certain band or piece of music, it doesn't follow that you are going to like it, too.

Sure enough, the bunch of uni twats decided early on that Sigur Ros were not for them and, according to my friend, spent the gig chatting, calling their friends on their mobiles, getting drunk and attempting to sing in a high pitched voice in a pathetic attempt to take the piss out of the singer and amuse each other. My friend told me that tens of pairs of eyes were trained on them, all looking daggers at them in an attempt to intimidate them into being quiet. Didn't work. They were totally oblivious. Eventually, after about an hour of this, one man gave them an extremely firm, but polite talking to. The gang of chumps, which included several women, were, apparently utterly bemused and took great umbrage at being confronted. Aparently, one of the women responded to the telling off with "We're not bothering anyone. We're just trying to have a laugh. Leave us alone."

I mean, how fucking thick skinned and ignorant do you have to be to miss the fact that everyone in your immediate vicinity is wishing that you would just drop dead? What kind of family life and upbringing would these people have had? My friend tells me that they were well spoken and well dressed. And Bristol Uni is a very difficult uni to get into. Have these young people had a life where no one has ever said "no" to them, or ever challenged their behaviour?

Thanks to people like this, I have given up one of my life's greatest pleasures: Live music. And the worse thing is that if these people could hear me say this, they simply wouldn't give a shit.

...although it's a shame your experiences have been so bad you've given live music up.

I've been moved to mention this a couple of times on here (can't remember the context now!) and my feelings on this are of the 'zero tolerance' variety.

If you want to get shit-faced and yell at your mates, you can go to a club, or even install yourself for nothing in a pub for the evening. People paying money to hear their favourite bands should be entitled to do so without enduring louts.

Would also like to draw more attention to Lee's point that as a tall man (am guessing you are a bloke, Lee!), he takes care who he stands in front of. I salute you, how many tall folk do that at a gig...?

...it's definitely getting worse.

I do remember being at a Michelle Shocked gig (remember her?) in the early 90s and after listening to a group of people talking incessantly just behind me for half the gig, eventually cracked and told them to 'Shut the fuck up!' They seemed shocked, but did as I asked. These days, I'm not sure I would get such an instant result.

The thing that amazes me is that many gig prices these days are quite pricey - £30 or more - so why do people shell out that sort of money if they're not going to even bother listening?

I'm seeing Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds this week. I'm sincerely hoping there's no room for talking and Ol' Nick blows us all away.

My other bugbear at gigs is tall people! I'm 5'9"and 46 years old. I've never been the tallest at any gig by a long stretch, but these youngsters seem to get taller and taller. It used to be that, if you were really unlucky, you were stuck behind someone who was 6'2", but these days that's normal height and chances are you'll be behind someone who is 6'7" or something. At a recent Fleet Foxes gig, three guys pushed in front of me who were EACH at least 6'6". Don't you think they should be made to kneel down, or have a special tall person zone at the back?

I was 26 when I 'retired' from gigs.

Strangly enough, I've been to The O2 4 times now and apart from the moving around during the quite bit thing, the actual talking and camera phones is kept to a minimium.

You never hear this issue mentioned at gig reviews do you? Is that because the journos are right down the front or otherwise isolated from it in someway?

"It's not the fucking bingo, love"

My favourite attempt ever to shut the punter in front up. As quoted in a review to Dexy's Dublin show a few years back. Have never had the balls to use it myself, though I have been known to point offenders in the direction of the bar.

I agree with the general sentiment being expressed here, but I'm sure back in the day, it was generally physically impossible to talk at gigs because the bands were so bloody loud!

Is it me, or is it H&S rules, or are bands an awful lot quieter these days?

...I usually just move, but it's difficult to get the balance between front of gig (often less talking, but people tightly packed in) and back (more personal space, more obnoxious people). I did get into an altercation with a loud drunk near the front at a Slow Club gig earlier this year (along with a couple of other exasperated listeners), and his missus had the gaul to justify he behaviour by saying "he works here!". I complained to a senior staff member at the end of the gig but have no idea if it was taken any further. I've not been back to the venue since. I could name and shame, but it's an individual rather than the venue itself which was the problem. I'd be appauled if he was still working there though.

sit down gigs at better venues now. Went to see the wonderful Band of Horses at Manchester Academy 3 (the uni) and had to forcefully shut 2 student types up. They were bladdered, but they moved.

Tend now to do just Bridgewater Hall or Lowry gigs, or samesuch and enjoy the gigs more. Eels at Bridgewater Hall and the Proclaimers at Llandudno are perfect examples of this. Plus, the old plates are ok for the drive/train home...

Were none of us getting any younger...

Two examples:
Saw Stevie Wonder at the O2 - view of the stage constantly obscured by moving people, and had to ask people behind me, politely, to shut up, which they did. However, the artist let the pace of the show drop several times which does little to discourage the talkers.

Saw Camille at Koko and the Roundhouse - her performance from beginning to end was captivating and you could hear a pin drop in the (very) quiet passages.

Also got to see Boz Scaggs in Wsahingon DC in September. Don't know if this was typical of a US crowd but there was total respect for the music, and didn't need a massively charismatic performance to hold the attention.

It can also be pretty risky for women at gigs these days, and often it doesn't seem to matter to idiots if you are with a group of friends or alone. We don't go to be groped, intimidated or to cause trouble. We just like to enjoy the music.
It is quite rare, but still happens. Some bloke at a Pixies gig even ask if I knew who he was, as he tried to push my friend and I out of his way (we were at the front, and there was nowhere else to go!). Poor man seemed to have forgotten his own name.

Wendy Fonarow (who appeared on the Podcast earlier this year) wrote a cracking uber-theoretical work on gig etiquette which analyses indie gig audiences in particular (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Empire-Dirt-Aesthetics-Rituals-Paperback/dp/0819...).

Her theory is that there are three 'zones' at an Indie gig; Zone 1 down the front occupied by the under 18s, squashed, sweaty and bouncing about, Zone 2 occupied by ex-Zone 1ers quietly rocking/occasionally swaping comments and Zone 3 - industry peeps at the bar talking loudly to indicate that they are insiders and, effectively, dissing the band and audience.

All this falls down somewhat when the band are quiet/fey, I'd guess, but may explain a bit of the underlying issues here. In my experience, some people *do* go to gigs to talk, irritating as it might be to others.

As for Lee's original post about Sigor Ros at Ally Pally - surely the gig was always going to be a losing proposition given nature of the venue/likely nature of performance. And asking someone at a gig to change their behaviour is nearly always a recipe for disaster - has anyone ever responded with a "fair point, I'll go elsewhere/quieten down/liven up" when asked in the middle of a busy night of entertainment?

... who only speaks his thoughts out loud when absolutely necessary, I hate people who talk at gigs more for their monstrous "listen to me, me, me" egos than for the disturbance they cause.

Worst case I've ever encountered was at Tom Waits in Edinburgh this year, second night. Gay couple sitting right in front of us and the much younger one kept badgering his partner for attention in the form of hugs, snogs or loud conversation about every 90 seconds. To his credit, the older guy looked seriously embarrassed but never once shut him up.

My pal leaned over and had a polite word, which was greeted with abuse. Someone in front also had a go, and there was almost an incident until someone else got security who had a serious word with them. They sat in sulking silence for five minutes then got up and left (or just possibly went elsewhere in the hall) only half-way through. And the tickets were more than £100 each. And the main culprit appeared to know all the songs.

Beats me.

Former Tony Blair adviser Matthew Taylor has an interesting take on why the smoking ban works: http://www.matthewtaylorsblog.com/prosocialbehaviour/smoking-bans-and-pr...

My first viewing of Sigur Ros at Hammy Apollo was spoilt by a couple in front talking and waving their phones about.

I saw the band again in Southampton at a standing venue, and although knackered as a result of having to stand, at least could move away from the phone waving morons.

Mobile phones; worst invention of all time.

I've lost count of the times I've asked - politely or otherwise - people to pipe down at gigs. A time that particularly springs to mind was at the 12 Bar, which you may know is a very intimate space. It was a quiet gig (can't remember who, but they were solo and acoustic), and a couple of blokes were yakking at a level that would have shamed me if I'd been doing it. When I asked them if they would mind keeping the noise down, they tried to laugh it off and ignored me. I persisted and suggested they go to the bar if they wanted to talk - some of us wanted to listen to the music. At this, one of them looked at me scornfully and opined that I was being "pretentious". I gave up at this point, simply because I was speechless.

For a couple of months, as he was beginning to get taken over by an acute (and now lifelong) case of self-importance, Damien Rice insisted on performing most of his increasingly less intimate gigs without a microphone and/or amplification. Great for a song or two, a pain in the hole after that. Anyway, at one gig in Mullingar there was a bunch of female fans chatting away during one of these mind-numbingly tedious bits about where they were thinking of going on holidays (it was that quiet we could all hear, there was a big push for Cyprus as I recall) so Rice eventually started into this speech about how he is an artist and how an artist needs a clear and quiet environment in which he can bring to fruition his, er, artistry. It was perhaps the loudest thing he did all night. The audience - all eyes now focussed on the holiday-planning females - started clapping along to this artistic mission statement imploring silence and devotion and the four women, without pausing from their planning, started clapping along until everyone else stopped clapping. Then, they calmly continued with their chat for another two songs until the "artist" finally lost it and told them directly to "shut the fuck up". Luckily, they saw the funny side and stayed quiet for about two more songs. The second Rice plugged back in they were at it again. Rice, fair play to him, played on, dedicating nearly every other song to holiday destinations.

Absolutely hate stadium gigs but made an exception to see Leonard Cohen at the NEC on Saturday and I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised at the audience behaviour (maybe the older gig goer is just a bit better behaved). I heard barely any chatter at all and when Leonard recited some of his poetry you could have heard a pin drop. A woman sitting behind us aked the huge guy sitting next to me (but not with me !) if he could stop jigging about as he was very tall and she was very small and couldn't see. Poor guy spent most of the gig slumped in his seat so she could see round him and they then had an amiable discussion at the interval.

I really get fed up with talking/shrieking/drunks at gigs - why do they bother ? But I've rarely heard artists address it. Exceptions are Jonathon Richman who insited on quiet at Fibbers in York. Notices were out around the venue and security staff actively shushed people who got noisy. I've also seen Glenn Tilbrook and Ian McNabb remonstrate with the audience to little effect.

* Talkers. I saw Low at Manchester Academy last week - possibly my favourite band, and audiences there are almost reverentially quiet. This time most people were alright but there was this one guy who looked a bit Zodiac Mindwarp-y (long hair, equally long beard, staring eyes, leather jacket, military hat) who drifted around the place and at the end of songs shouted bizarrely random things like Joy Division lyrics. It reached a point where some shouted "SHUT UP!" every time he opened his mouth, but this only upset him and he started screaming about "I'm interrupting the silence between the songs!"

* Those who just can't go without a drink. This mainly seems to happen at the MEN Arena for me, but no matter who I see or where I am there is a constant tide of people walking to and from the bar, so at seated shows you're constantly up and down, and then a few minutes later they inevitably need the loo.

* Those who don't want the new stuff. "This is from the new album!" comes from the stage. Mass exodus to the bars or toilets.

* Those who are there seemingly against their will. Case in point: Elbow at Delamere Forest. One of the most enjoyable gigs I've been to this year, but there was an extremely drunk man next to us who from start to finish insisted on shouting "You're losing the crowd! Play something we know! Faithless! Play some Scouse house!" at the end of every single song. Why was he there at all?

* Mobile phones. Depeche Mode at the MEN a few years ago. Two girls were next to us. From the start of the show to the end they didn't clap, sing, dance, cheer... nothing. Why? They were watching the show through their cameras and / or their phones, and when they weren't taking photo after photo they were texting them to friends.

* Flashing ears. Why do tat-vendors sell these things? More to the point, why do women of a certain age insist on buying them? Find yourself behind someone with these and you're odds-on for an epileptic fit before the encore.

* Smokers. Yes, there's a ban - hooray - but there are still some selfish sods who insist on lighting up. MEN Arena again, a year ago, watching James at their comeback show. Five people in a row in front of us in the seats, all smoking. A woman behind us reported them to a steward and as the steward approached they all hid the cigarettes in their hands. As the steward couldn't see them smoking she was powerless. Moments later the cigarettes came out again and they resumed smoking. The steward eventually caught them, shouted "you can't smoke!" to which she received a feeble "sorry," response, and as soon as she walked away they lit up again. If you can't go two hours without a cigarette you shouldn't go to a concert where you KNOW you won't be able to smoke.

I'm sure I'll think of more as soon as I submit this...

Pleased to see that at the Luminaire in Kilburn the bar at the back (only about 10 yards from the stage) has a sign on it saying something along the lines of "No-one paid to listen to you and your mates talking" and directing them outside if they want to continue their conversation. More power to their elbow...

I'm going to see Nick Cave at the Apollo in Manchester tonight. I hope he plays so f***ing loud that the talkers won't be able to spoil my evening...!

EDIT: Mr Cave must have been reading this blog! Christ the Bad Seeds were loud tonight - ear-bleedingly loud. Having said that the couple of quiet songs he played, including God Is In The House with a whispered middle section, were greeted with almost complete silence. Great gig. Loved every minute of it.

Something that really hacks me off are the people that linger in the bar until the main band are on and then barge their way through to get to the front - frequently in twos or threes just for additional effect. I'm not an easy guy to miss - 6ft 2 and no stranger to the odd pie and chips. But I've had several instances of the sort of shoulder charge that would make even John Terry blush. The worst part is that by the time you've worked out what's happened any form of response or indeed retribution is pretty much impossible. I did consider turning to face the bar as the gig started so as to counter the element of surprise, but I kept getting distracted by the band. Now I just put on a concert DVD, scatter sweets in front of the TV and call the kids in .....

I've only been to one stand-up gig - Rammstein at Cardiff International Arena - and while their unique brand of Wagnerian industrial was ideally suited for a standing audience, and it was so loud you couldn't hear yourself think, never mind anybody else's chatter, it was marred by cretins taping the whole thing on their mobiles. The lack of raised seating in a dark auditorium meant that there was no escaping the distracting glow of dozens of little screens right in your eyeline.

What is the point of paying £30 or £40 to watch a show lasting the best part of two hours on a screen two inches wide when all the sturm und drang mayhem is going on a few feet away from you in glorious real life?

Similarly, a terrific gig by Show of Hands earlier this month in the picturesque setting of St Donats was spoilt by almost the entire row of people near us who insisted on talking for a fair part of the second half. What made it worse was that the band had just spent most of the interval playing among us in the bar, which made the whole night feel really intimate and charming, and we went back to our seats on a high only for 10-12 idiots to chat, loudly, over some lovely quiet acoustic folk.

If you want to talk, wait for the song to finish or get the hell out.

However, I used to think yakking during the performance was mainly the preserve of blahzay-blah audiences in That London but, somewhat depressingly, many of the responses here would seem to indicate otherwise.

People who insist on talking during gigs are, for me, the single most irritating thing about going to see/hear live music these days. London audiences are particularly bad, and I really don't care if I sound like a curmudgeon for saying this, but "young people" are the worst offenders of the bloody lot. I genuinely can't grasp why people do it, and I often wonder if these are the selfsame people you'll sometimes hear saying, "Oh, yeah, I went to see [insert band here] last night and they were soooo boring..."

If it's any consolation, it's not much fun for the performers, either. A few years ago, the band I was in played at a free all-dayer at Cargo in London's Trendy Shoreditch one bank holiday weekend. We didn't exactly rival My Bloody Valentine in the volume stakes, but after a while the constant murmuring of the crowd grew incredibly distracting. "Well, you shouldn't have been so bloody boring, then, should you?", you might say. Which might be a fair point, but for the fact that, when the headliner came on, the chattering in the now-packed room was actually louder than the music on stage, to the extent where the performer actually had to ask the crowd to make less noise (they ignored him). Conclusion? Most of them were there for the freebie, and didn't much care who was playing. Compare and contrast with a gig that me and a fellow bandmate did at The 13th Note in Glasgow a year or two earlier, where you could almost literally have heard a pin drop, even during the support. I remember commenting on how refreshing it was that audiences outside of London seemed to actually listen to the music.

Trapped on the second tier, I was surrounded by people talking & filming at Jarvis Cocker's Shepherds Bush Empire show last night. They shouted to be heard over the music & continued to chat through Cocker's inbetween song banter (surely one of the attractions of his gigs). One bloke filmed large chunks of the show despite having his view restricted by the barrier at the front of the circle. What's he going to do with all that footage? Watch it when he's back at home so he can see what he missed while filming it? Another finished off his evening by throwing a half-full plastic pint glass over the balcony.

It happens all the time & I'm getting sick of asking people to be quiet or put their phones down & have to deal with aggressive responses. And it's getting worse. I think venue staff should sort out those who are unable to be quiet during a performance. If I was to spark up a fag I'd be out on my ear but noise pollution from drunk idiots seems to be acceptable.

I went to see Dean Friedman at the Cavern Club in Liverpool last month. Really atmospheric venue and I can see why a performer who can fill that size of venue would want the experience of playing there but the extraneous noise was intrusive.

Yes, there was a prat who insisted on talking through the first number - Dean himself mentioned it after the song. Then there was the bleed through of loud Motown music from the nightclub half of the venue next door. Finally there was the member of bar staff who came through the squeaky door from the bar to fill a black bin bag with ice cubes from the ice maker.

Have you any idea how much noise a bin bag full of ice cubes make being transferred from a plastic hopper? Finally, one of the audience members stood up, crossed the floor and shut the firedoor locking said barstaff out of the venue altogether. She was forced to knock and ask to be let in when the next number ended!

The Jazz Cafe in Camden just has a sign by the stage which says "STFU".

Shout (about) The Food Upstairs

Found this on the nyctaper site. Here's Mike Doughty sorting out the chatterers...

Nouvelle Vague at the Big Chill a couple of years ago - a guy right next to us decided to make up his own amusing (i.e. not at all witty) lyrics to every song, and sing them so loudly to his mates that it almost drowned out the vocals from the PA. I contented myself with accidentally treading on his foot with my heavy hiking boot from time to time.