Entertainment For Lively Minds
Gazza
Posted by kgb on 13 November 2011 - 10:21pm.
I had the misfortune to watch 5 minutes of the Gazza interview with the vomit inducing Piers Morgan last night. Usual load of crap about 'his demons' and feeling empty when football was taken away from him as if it was'nt his behaviour that caused it to be taken away. Gazza looked like death warmed up, twenty years older than his actual age with wax like skin.
The thing that made me turn off was his extraodinary assertion that he survived a month on no food, no water just four bottles of whisky and sixteen grammes of coke a day. That seemed to me utter b******s but friend Morgan just accepted it.
Any doctors out there? or anyone feeling sympathy for Gazza?
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Gazza
I have a lot of sympathy for him. He has suffered mental health problems from childhood, and hasn't always had the best support network around him.
Having said that, I was a bit uncomfortable with the way the wife-beating issue was swept aside. And his tasteless gag about 'two baggers' made me cringe a bit.
Well, he managed to kill Lindisfarne's last vestige of...
...credibility with this. And what was going on with that madman Moaty on the moors that he brought a dressing gown and some pies to? Gazza had opportunities, wealth, fame and he blew it. If there's underlying health issues there, I'm sorry on that score. But some of us have underlying health issues and will never earn in a lifetime what he probably earned in a season - so it's very hard to feel too much sympathy on that basis.
He clearly had no other skills than football, and that world with its huge money making rewards only lasts a few years - if he didn't save money while the sun was shining for him he's just a fool.
There are many others who never had anything, nor ever will have, who - I think - deserve our sympathy more.
Money isn't a cure for mental ill-health
As someone with mental health problems who earns in a year what Gazza earned in a week during his pomp, I feel no resentment towards him on that score.
No, I agree Spart...
...and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. What I was trying to get at is that if someone - or, perhaps more damningly in Gazza'a case, those around them - are aware that there are mental health issues that are, frankly, going to cause the individual in question difficulty adjusting to a 'normal' working life after the rarified world of big money football, then the sensible thing is to make sure you have the right arrangements in place during the boom years to see you through the time beyond - to effectively insulate you from having to deal with a lot of life, to allow you a guaranteed living for the rest of your life. Financial security at least allows you to focus on your inward well-being - it's a hell of a cushion to have.
I've had significant mental health issues myself - nowhere near Gazza levels and not affecting anyone but my own peace of mind - and, God knows, if I won the lottery the very first thing I'd do would be put in place the kind of arrangements I'm talking about here to insulate MYSELF from as much of the crap of life as possible. It starts with getting a decent financial advisor. It's not rocket science. If Gazza pissed it all away, I don't accept that was down to mental health issues - just stupidity. Not being able to cope with normal life/reduced circs after the good times, yes, I can imagine poor mental health is at the root of that. And for that, yes, I sympathise.
Thanks for the clarification
For what it's worth, I know someone who worked with Gazza, and was of the opinion that if he'd had more supportive people around him, he might've coped better with his problems. I'll say no more than that.
Feeling sympathy for him?
Nah.
Maybe it's all the John Lewis ads
But I think that Paul Gascoigne, like any alcoholic/addict who's trying to turn that old tug-boat round deserves support and encouragement. Sure, he has a lot to be thoroughly ashamed of, and that's what I got from watching the show: a person who's royally pissed it all away, beaten his wife, shamed those who loved him but who is aware of and ashamed of what he's done. I hope he makes it.
You've saved me the bother
of writing the exact same points. I hope he makes it as well.
Another up from me
I'm saving my scorn for the likes of Morgan, not those that suffer mental illness and addiction ill, no matter how much money they've earned.
Poor bloke
After all he's gone through - having to spend all that time with Piers Morgan.
I'm only half joking. I really do consider Piers Morgan to be several distinct shades of despicable.
several distinct shades of despicable
...yes, he's vileness personified isn't he? I wouldn't give him house room so didn't see the interview. But clearly Gazza has done it for the money - which sort of adds to the misery: that someone once famous has sunk to the level of needing to go on tawdry confessional shows with a voyeuristic vampire in order to keep food on the table, because there's simply nothing else they can do.
George Best had years of the same kind of life. Horror beyond imagining.
Gazza
I didn't watch it, because unfortunately "Life Stories with Piers Morgan" means Piers Morgan is on it, but I saw Paul Gascoigne a couple of weeks ago.
I was walking past my local WHSmiths and there was a crowd of people (not a big crowd really considering it is Spurs country). I wondered what they were doing. All I could see was this old man at the table.
As I got right up to him, I realised it was Gazza, doing a signing for the book. Now, I didn't have my specs on admittedly, but as someone who actually saw him play football several times, it made me really sad that I didn't recognise him until we were two feet apart.
I don't like what he has done to his family and hate what he did to his wife (and don't think bi-polar and addiction problems should wholly excuse him from his crimes there) but how can anyone wish anything but for for his better health and wellbeing?
Gazza
as a severe critic of the current malaise among some England footballers, Gazzas tale is sad on many levels, saddest to me is that no lessons were learned. Gazza was a poorly educated Geordie boy with tendencies leaning towards trouble. Because of his talent it was deemed appropriate to pay him thousands of pounds a week and send him to London, we all know what happened next. Those tendencies were actually the first signs of a mental instability that required attention and understanding not beer, women and friends who should have known better. Alex Fergusons biggest regret is losing Gazza at the last minute to El Tel and Tottenham, who knows if things would have been different at Man Utd, I like to think they would have been and as a football fan Gazza having a full and successful career would have been an absolute treasure. His legacy now should be that these vast sums are kept away from the players until they truly know how to behave and handle it. These boys are born with a talent to play football, only a few have the added talent of understanding how to deal with it. I hope Gazza's ok, we really can only imagine what it was like for this simple boy to be thrust into the limelight and left to deal with it all among dubious friends and hangers on who's interest was in the next Gazza story or photo opportunity, not his well being.
Lessons not learned..
You are right about lessons not being learned, nearly thirty years later we have another talented Geordie making a big money move and there are questions about his behaviour. But it's still dismissed by many as "Likes a drink", "Bit of a lad." etc
Even Fergie wouldn't have been able to "save" Gazza, did he "save" Paul McGrath? Bryan Robson? Roy Keane from their "demons" ?
Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest football manager who ever lived, but looking at his purple nose, he's the last person I'd want "helping" me stay sober.
Who knows indeed
I actually think Venables might have done a better job with Gazza if he had stayed with Spurs but its not that sort of business is it? Venables didn't have any longevity in the job and made Redknapp look like a model of probity but he did seem to get the best out of Gazza at Spurs and for England. I thought that Gazza really went off the rails in Italy rather than London but all the signs were there I guess.
No excuse whatsoever for wife-beating but if he had broken a chair over Piers Moron's heid a nation might have been able to find it in their hearts to give him another chance
Sir Alex
I am also unsure if Fergie/Manchester United would have been able to change the course of Gazzas life. In addition to the things the club are able to do, the person him self also needs to want to be saved.
Lee Sharpe and Ryan Giggs are about the same age, were both blessed with a huge amount of talent and where at the same club at the same time. One has played for 20 years, the other left United, because he didn't fit in, and was unable to find success as a footballer elsewhere.
McGrath, Robson, Whiteside and so on where given chances at Manchester United and some of them decided to leave.
Roy Keane was helped, wasn't he? Even if he still had (has?) a temper, he did quit drinking?
Radio 5
he was on Radio 5 a couple of weeks ago. And it was a curiously depressing interview.
Asked about mental health issues, addiction, or anything of that ilk? He sounded lucid and spot on - even (given what I'm about to say) coached. Repeating some rote lessons that he has yet to comprehend.
Asked about 'Gazza'? Cloud effing cuckoo land. Apparently everyone loves Gazza. Erm, no Paul, we don't. And I'm neither an Arsenal or Celtic supporter.
Compare his story to that of Jerry West:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_West
Born in dirt poor West Virginia. I know that area, and it redefines "dirt poor". Beaten and abused. Profound depression his whole life. Just written and excellent book, and gave a searingly honest, erudite and incisive interview on NPR a couple of weeks ago.
The comparison is embarrassing.
Why compare? I can still
Why compare?
I can still feel sympathy for Gazza, even if he's not an inspiration or a role model. He's a man with many illnesses, that's why he has my sympathy.
Fair point.
My position may be somewhat simplistic:
One maximized all his opportunities and struggled against his issues. The other didn't.
Both deserve compassion. But I know which one I have more positive feelings for.
It's not something I would often
say, but he would have done better at Man U with Ferguson, and though the contrary views above are fair enough, the likes of Robson and McGrath were not impressionable kids by the time Ferguson got there, Gascoigne was, would have been his first move and it would have been better than London (then he could have joined Leeds United once straightened out). I remain uncomfortable with the wife beating issue, he was given far too much latitude on that score and even though he wouldn't be first on my sympathy list, I do I wish him well. I shared a breakfast room in a hotel near Newcastle back in 2002 (me and about 50 others) and I have never seen a man look so haunted, he looked like a hunted animal, could not look anyone in the eye and also painfully thin. Let's hope he gets some proper help to help him deal with his problems, not some Piers Moron freakshow.