Entertainment For Lively Minds
Frankie Boyle goes a little too far
for his bosses at the Daily Record.
http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2009/06/28/9180/boyle_quits_over_michael_j...
Well, heres why:
"So the Michael Jackson roller coaster has stopped. Looks like he got enough.
Apparently he died after walking into a pub in Paisley and saying “Do you wanna be starting something?” We can all learn something from Michael’s life. For example, it looks like oxygen tents are a big waste of money.
Why did no one pick up on it when he had shown all the signs of a heart attack? Wheezing noises, jerking of the arms, ashen complexion? I suppose to be fair he has been showing all those symptoms since the mid eighties. Had Jackson’s staff noticed something was wrong earlier he might have been saved, but when they saw him grab his left arm, go stiff and yelp they just thought he was practising his moves for Beat It.
It’s not known what triggered the heart attack, but High School Musical 3 was on cable at the time.
In many ways he was a tragic figure. Let’s be honest, he had more personal issues than Batman.Who could have imagined that the monster he transformed into in “Thriller” would look less weird than what he transformed into in real life? It’s got to be a tossup whether he get cremated or recycled. His postmortem will look like the Roswell autopsy.
I was a big Michael Jackson fan when I was 8. I didn't know it at the time, but I was his 'type.'
For his London concerts Michael Jackson advertised for children in wheelchairs or with missing legs! What parent would agree to that? Look what happened with kids who could run away!
Those tickets sold out in minutes. An interesting attitude we have to paedophilia in this country, “ We don’t want paedophiles round here! Unless they’ve really worked on their choreography…”
He was a legend and his funeral will be amazing. Ironically the funeral will be the first time in years his children haven’t been forced to wear veils.
With the amount of money the concert tickets have made I wouldn’t be surprised if they still wheeled him on. It would add an interesting touch to I’ll Be There. Michael Jackson was apparently refusing to eat ahead of his O2 gigs. He now weighed less than nine stone and the only thing he would eat willingly was nachos. Nachos being the name of a young Mexican boy.
It’s said that Jackson had developed a phobia about being fat. Not like him to worry about his looks.
Apparently when the news broke Jackson’s father rushed straight to the hospital, just to check if the medics needed a hand with beating Michael’s chest.
Jackson’s family said they were moved to see that the hospital staff were all wearing black. Actually, they were all wearing white as usual, but that family had always had a little trouble admitting the difference. The man may be gone but he has left a musical legacy that will be around for hundreds of years. As will his face."
Ouch!
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This is shocking
I cannot believe that Frankie Boyle has said something funny
The interesting thing is that
most people will have laughed at and passed around individual jokes about MJ, most of which are in poor taste. But as it's just one poor taste gag, that seems to be OK. Naughty but nice, I suppose.
Then Frankie puts a run of them together and doubtless will be pilloried for it in certain prurient quarters. But so what? Why is it that one poor taste gag is OK but several together isn't?
Well done Frankie.
Magic
You can always rely on FB to cut through the crap - consistently funny guy.
I posted this about comedy...
on chortle, a comedy website.
http://www.chortle.co.uk/correspondents/2009/07/01/9207/where_is_the_lov...
You
Are cock on, Mr D. Well said. And some of that Jackson stuff was very weak.
Good points well made
I'm sure that living outside the UK I'm not overwhelmed by the sheer intensity of the kind of humour you talk about but seeing Jimmy Carr on various panelshows, I kind of get what you mean. I'm sure there is a case for ensuring that paedofelia doesnt become the modern day Spanish Inquisition but its a bit much to base your whole act on it.
Regarding Ricky Gervais though, I remember the episode of Extras with the girl with celebral palsy as being very funny and extremely moving at the same time, I didnt feel embarrassed to laugh at it. I have a friend in his 40s with motor neurone disease and humour is the only way he copes, he doesnt get offended, how could it make things worse?
I think your point is more about repetition, whether it be mother-in-law gags, 'er indoors or "bad taste" I think its a fine trait to be able to laugh about anything and I'm quite proud of the British ability to do so but I must admit I've never heard a Madelaine McCann joke and I struggle to think of anything I'd find funny about that.
I was listening to a Billy Connolly concert today.
I had realised that I carried a lot of received opinions about comedians whose work I'd never actually heard in context. It's very easy to find their stuff in charity shops. I won't be listening to Jethro again (creepy), though I hadn't realised that The Two Ronnies and Lenny Henry had filletted the same joke book. Presentation is key.
The Connolly stuff is a breath of fresh air: an amiable man telling stories about his school days in front of a crowd who are up for a good time. A folk club in the mid-1970s might well have been the best fun in town. I liked Bruce Morton's work a lot, about fifteen years ago. Which comedians tell stories now? Daft stories are the heart of a good family reunion. Perhaps fewer people are familiar with the form.
I am so bored with the current wave of comedians churning out gags about complex issues. I've read the How To books. I can imagine the brainstorming session at work. It's so procedural.
I'm going to look to clowns for my comedy. Seriously. They're the tabula rasa. I saw one man transmit more character in one double take than David Walliams has managed in his whole career. Many British comedians have nicked moves from clowns.
And I'd love to know more about the types of humour that shows like "Lines From My Grandfather's Forehead" explored. I'd rather have a belly laugh after 200 pages than a production line punchline every twenty words.
I enjoyed your article.
If you're after story telling...
check out Daniel Kitson, the finest comic on the circuit in my opinion. He was in Phoenix Nights, but don't hold that against him, his act is nothing like Peter Kay.
new
What's he up to these days? I seen him at the Kilkenny comedy festival a few years ago and he was brillant. Why isn't he on the box more instead of Jimmy bloody Carr and that unfunny posh bloke on bbc1. Comedy is shite on tv at the minute.
He usually tours once or
He usually tours once or twice a year, and has a couple of shows at Edinburgh most years too. I haven't seen him since we left the UK in 2007, and although he comes to Australia every now and again, he doesn't seem to make it to the cultural backwater that is Perth. (Can't say as I blame him, though).
As well as the stand up shows (which are the best crafted shows I've seen) he has also done a few strictly story-telling shows, where he puts aside the funny and gets all Jackanory on the audience, normally with stories full of heartache.
As for TV, he does seem quite publicity-shy. ("I'm trying to whittle my audience down to a core of 12... let's call them apostles") One of the running topics at his gigs a few years ago was that he'd signed a deal to produce a live DVD, but never got around to doing it, despite the hefty advance for the production company. It's always seemed to me that the size of a comedian's funny is inversely proportional to the size of their audience, so I'm hoping he doesn't embrace the limelight too much.
(But maybe if he wants to visit Perth, WA just once, please???
Phoenix Nights
Kay in Phoenix Nights was superb. All he needs is a good editor and someone to say "no". Maybe Neil Fitzmaurice or Dave Spikey could help there. Maybe not.
Owen O'Neill
Might be your kind of thing. A very funny stand-up, playwright and poet. While I like Frankie Boyle a lot, I find Owen O'Neill a bit more life-affirming.
He has a hilarious story about coming to Scotland to work on the rigs, involving a boarding house and sausages. The ending is so moving it made me cry. Bastard.
Bruce Morton is another highly recommended purveyor of light and shade.
Isn't the problem now that we have 'soundbite' comedians? If they can't come up with a punchline within 30 seconds, they won't be invited on any panel shows and will therefore be below the radar.
Owen O Neil and Bruce Morton
Owen is indeed very funny , sharp and has a lightness of touch which proves wit should sting not bludgeon . I last saw him supporting Sean Hughes a couple of years ago .
Bruce , I happen to know is working on a project at this moment .
Daniel Kitson is a one off who at this moment simply does not want to do telly because of the restrictions it brings . At this years fringe I spotted Stewart Lee , Gary Delaney and Sarah Millican all in the audience for Kitson's wonderful storytelling .
May I also recommend an old podcaster of this parish Robin Ince funny , angry ,sharp .
dark comedy
I agree with your sentiment in the article but I'm not sure that your not worrying a little to much.
If you look at the current crop of big name comedians, people like Lee Mack, Jason Manford, Michael Mcintyre, Russell Brand, Russell Howard etc. they are all definately showing the love. Relying largely on self deprication and abuse of the small minded.
I was at a comedy club in the west end on Saturday night and there too, with acts just starting out, the comedy was mostly gently observational.
There are comedians about who insist on 'pushing the envelope' as far as comedy boundries go and these largely seem to appear on bear pit panel shows, sponsered by 20 something producers at the BBC who want edgy all the tiem, but I'm not sure these guys have got a hold over all comedy be it in clubs or on TV.
I am not really a fan a frankie boyle or Jimmy Carr although I am not afraid of the dark side and love Chris Morris for example but that seems dark and yet not at the expense of people who dont really deserve it.
I watched an episode of Russell Brand's Ponderland recently and he played a clip of people enjoying a George Formby appreciation evening and, whilst sending the people attending up a little, he clearly thought the whole thing quiet charming in a way and in the end made the viewer understand that we should be rejoicing in their enjoyment rather than cynically deriding it, which pleased me immensely for some reason.
So, all it not lost, and I suggest that maybe you avoid northern working mens clubs in the future, where perhaps the spirit of Bernard Manning is proving harder to shake off than we imagined.
Joylessness
I have seen Frankie Boyle loads over the years, both in clubs and theatre shows, and there is a terrible joylessness about the targets in his set. (Same for Jimmy Carr over the years). He may be saying that which has been unsaid, but perhaps this isn't as revolutionary as it once was. There is a dark, brutal negativity which is frequently funny but leaves an awful worthless void in the end. He's always pointing out the shit without giving any light to the shade. Mark Steel, Linda Smith, Jeremy Hardy and Steve Gribbin plough(ed) a similar satiric furrow without ever being utterly negative.
never warmed tae Frankie
but (in context) his column was excellent and at least he had the sac to throw the towel in when it was rejected - he's went up in my estimation
Isn't very good
Also, the piece posted above wasn't very good anyway. Especially the nachos gag, terrible.
Say something funny without stereotypes
With the exception of Lee Evans there are no great clownish stand-ups anymore because of the multitude of broadcast panel shows which mark the trajectory of modern comedy industry.
Without exposure through these TV formats you can't hope to break away from the club circuit and without the kind of set that fits in with these formats, you are left to travel the Jongleurs, Glee Clubs and Comedy Stores of Britain.
If you can't get an Edinburgh Festival-originated speech format for Radio 4 and which may transfer to TV or brutally banter with Boyle or Russell Howard or Simon Amstell or joust with Stephen Fry then there is nothing down for you.
It doesn't even matter that you are a comedian; how can Clarkson, the apotheosis of a wave of opinionated gobshite intellectual mediocrity besetting modern Britain get gigs on Buzzcocks and QI regularly?
In a bid to circumvent this morass of Dave TV homogenous mush, women and gay comedians also cater to this angry median to get a gig.
There is no other reason to explain Catherine Tate, Mighty Boosh (Noel Fielding ironically blacking-up anyone?) or Little Britain, whose writers assemble all the negative prejudices of chavs et al but present them oh so ironically.
Ultimately the taste of (London-based) BBC commissioners dictates the humour of the age. I don't need to qualify that statement BTW.
When was the last time you heard something genuinely, intellectually demanding and affectionate from a comedian on TV? (Bremner is intelligent, but perhaps not funny anymore).
The last was Mark Steel's Lecture series, something with a bright, interesting good heart which had great gags and which didn't include a stereotype or attack anyone personally. (apart from Blair and Thatch).
When did satire mean hate first and funny second.
... And relax. Nurse, flannel please.
I'm a big Frankie Boyle fan
but those jokes were piss poor in my opinion... he sounds more like Jim Davidson.
Jim Davidson's Popular Comedy Front
Frankie Boyle, and many comedians of his standing, are always a just a breath away from Jim Davidson's material. It'a tragic facet of modern, sneering, tabloid comedy.
Listen to Phill Jupitus go on about Jordan on the Perfect 10 podcast, and wonder how someone that bright can summon the energy to get that worked up about Katie Price. It's easy and tawdry.
Jimmy Carr, is however the worst of the lot. Could have done the Comedians in the 70s. Main chance chancer - as befits someone who once worked in marketing for an oil company.
I'm sorry
my failing eyesight and dyslexia made me read Jim Davidison as Joy Division
it happened, I was confused for a second then re-focused but I thought I should inform the Word massif
yes, drink has been taken and I'm going to a barbie at my cousin's tomorrow so I'm in high spirits
inserts smiley, eh smiley
Good spelling though
At least the workshops have you spelling dyxlexia correctly
Well, it made me laugh
But perhaps any antidote to all the sentimental crap of the last week would have made me laugh.
Shameless
contains some of the best comedy acting - acting period - in British TV. Each character is brillinatly depicted - and David Threlfall's Frank Gallagher is a defining character of the Noughties.
Slapstick, the double take, look easy but are hard. Ciaran Griffiths who plays Micky Mcguire does it brilliantly - his character - though relatively minor - is a creation of genius.
This is satire with insight, wit and warmth. A look at Britain's dark underbely -but joyous and life-affirming unlike the dystopic harangues of Boyle, Carr and their ilk.
Frankie is incredible
In my own opinion; we can say that half of the jokes up there are 'bad' from a spectator's point of view, but most of them are from programs such as Mock the Week which is an Improv. comedy show, this stuff is pure off the mark wit. It's only funny when you are watching the show, as stand-alone jokes, granted; they aren't fantastic. I love Frankie Boyle's dark sense of humour, he cuts to the bone which I think I absolutely fine - it makes me laugh, which is the aim of the comedian.
Comedians such as Dara O' Briain are different in the respect that they don't cause such controversy by picking less sensitive topics to tear to pieces.
Going too far is Frankie's forte, and personally; I absolutely love him for it.
Improv?
I am not so sure that some of the 'regulars' stuff isn't scripted on Mock The Week. I'd like to be proved (proven?) wrong.
In a word...
... it's not quite "scripted" but it is rehearsed to within an inch of its life. Recordings can last for around two hours.
To be fair I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue isn't entirely spontaneous either.
TV comedy panel shows
are crap on the whole - formulaic and predictable while desparately trying to convey that they are in fact "daring" and "edgy". Mock the Week seems to be full of comics not good enough to get on Have I Got News For You (which is in itself very predictable despite Paul Merton who always seems a genuinely witty individual)
But surely the absolute nadir is Never Mind the Buzzcocks. It ran out of gags well before Lamarr left, and the new series last week was just embarassing. Simon Amstell must be the unfunniest person on the planet and Phill Jupitus seems to be sinking to his level. It was quite sad to see Mick Avory reduced to appearing on the Identity Parade round.
Simon Amstell
is very funny. Buzzcocks improved a lot when he took over.
yes but
it went really unfunny again when Bill Bailey left. It's all about the chemistry y'see
Nevermind the Buzzcocks
was funny, when, which episode, fragment, scintilla did I miss?
great on paper, terrible in 'fact' my hatred for Phil StupidAss knows no bounds, any QI he's on I don't watch
I enjoy watching him on Mock
I enjoy watching him on Mock the Week because within that setting, his crudeness can be curtailed and balanced with other comedians, and he comes out more witty than crude (although that is obviously subject to debate). However, his standups are just OTT and they verge easily into offensive territory. He has insulted many politicians and entertainers, why is Katie Price so special that she needs personal retribution? Everything blows over in the end and in the way that Frankie has over criticised, she has over reacted. For others who are offended by this, don't watch if Frankie is on, it's as simple as 1 2 3.
Katie Price is a pathetic representation of women and grossly misrepresents their value in the media. She is a blow up doll, and being a 25 yro woman I am offended by her tbh. My bf also thinks she is vulgar and distasteful. I wouldn't be surprised if other people of my generation won't agree with me. Anyone that derives any value from Price clearly has cultivated a diet on Porn or is very impressionable.
I think he's a cock
He's getting nastier and nastier. He's not funny, I'm afraid, he's desperate to shock and it shows. That Jordan joke made even me baulk and I'm no fan of the woman.
Still, the show's a bomb, so he's killing his career off very nicely without any help from anyone else.
Okey Dokey
Let's look at what Boyle actually said.
'Jordan and Peter Andre are still fighting each other over custody of Harvey - eventually one of them will lose and have to keep him.'
'I have a theory about the reason Jordan married a cage fighter - she needed a man strong enough to stop Harvey from f***ing her...'
So you believe it is acceptable to openly mock an eight year old disabled child because you don't like what his mother represents?
Boyle is an appalling man and anyone who likes him needs to sort out their morals.
Just one question
regarding 'openly mock(ing) an eight year old disabled child because you don't like what his mother represents?'
Surely you can't object to Prince Harry jokes?
depends on the age
I don't object to jokes about Prince Harry now. He's a big boy and can look after himself.But not when he was 8. or indeed any age as a child.
And the same applies to Jordan's little boy. I don't like what Jordan represents but I dislike the idea of someone taking the piss out of her because of her son. Leave him out of it. Frankie Boyle is a bully and should count his blessings that his own children aren't disabled.
Sorry to come over all po faced. But some things are beyond the pale.
Just to add, I love Frankie
Just to add, I love Frankie he's a maverick. I wonder what it must feel like to walk around with his head on...
Whether you like his comedy or not
A maverick he most certainly ain't.
Sorry Lucifer Sam
but I have to disagree with you. Firstly let me say I am not personally familiar with Frankie Boyles work but judging from the reports he is the sort of comedian I would laugh at. For people to laugh at sick jokes doesnt in any way mean they need to 'sort out their morals' which to be frank is holier than thou bullshit. If I find something that is distasteful funny it does not mean I am less moral than you. It may mean I have a warped sense of humour but nothing more than that. The text jokes I get on a daily basis from all sorts of people are if anything as dark as this or darker still. The British way of dealing with all manner of sad subjects is to make light of them. Jesus, lighten up for Gods sake.
The guy will live or die depending on whether his audience goes with him or not. Some of the MJ stuff missed the mark but some of it was funny and also true. What's the problem? If you dont like it so what - there are tens of thousands that do. Are you going to deprive them of experiencing his humour because your morals say he is wrong?
Bravo Steve
Thanks for your spirited defence of a grown man's right to make fun out of an eight year old disabled child, upsetting his mother.
Call me holier-than-thou if you like Steve. But there has to be some sort of standard of what is or is not acceptable.
Katie Price's child...
...is a real child. I agree that humour has to have targets, and I know people who find Frankie Boyle very funny (I'm not one of them, particularly, although found myself laughing very occasionally on Mock the Week), but that stuff about Katie Price's little boy is horrible. It just is.
It is not OK to pick targets like Harvey Price. It just isn't. And his illnesses and difficulties are not funny.
If I sound like a humourless old crone, then so be it.
I'll join you in
grumpy old crone corner. Frankie Boyle = this era's Chubby Brown.
See, I bridle a bit at this
I like a bit of Chubby Brown. But then, I also like Mark Steel, Stewart Lee, Richard Herring and whole host of other more "acceptable" comics. I don't see that as a problem, because a lot of the issue is down to intent in delivery. It's why I distance Chubby in my mind from Bernard Manning
Part of Chubby's schtick is that he is meant to be offensive. That's what the audience have come for. That kind of material and its delivery is a product of where he's from and the humour that is still very prevalent there. Trust me, South Bank Middlesbrough is a fairly tough place - the humour fits it perfectly.
Listening to a Chubby Brown routine is quite interesting. He doesn't do as much 'racial' stuff as many might think and most of the vitriol is actually directed at himself. It's almost verging on self-parody now; there's a fairly knowing undercurrent of 'this is what you're expecting, so why should I disappoint you' bubbling under his act these days, and his audience (especially on Teesside, where there is a significant Asian population) isn't as white as the narrative would have you believe.
Perhaps I am being unfair on him
I must admit I was clutching around a bit for a name from the past. The Chubby Brown audience does know what it's coming in for - this isn't quite the same with a TV programme accessible to millions. I guess the point I'd make about his act is that it's all been done before Mr Boyle, abusing the defenceless isn't new and original. And it is perhaps the behaviour of a bully.
I'd say
that was pretty fair. Don't mind him picking on those who can answer back, but not those who can't
Answering back
Why should they have to? Why should Rebecca Addlington have to answer back? She's a swimmer, not a comedian or woman of letters.
Whether or not someone can answer back isn't a yardstick as to whether comedy is acceptable.
But
while Frankie Boyle is a bitter and resentful (and fitfully amusing) comic who tosses off some very off colour gags, she is a fantastically successful and (I think) really rather lovely young woman. He is essentially vacuous.
All I wonder is why she'd actually remotely care what he thinks? I thought it was a crass gag but it didn't make me think of her any differently.
Or, to put it a more "laddish" way: I definitely would.
Actually, it's just what he says. It may not even be what he thinks. In some sense I think that makes Bernard Manning morally a bit superior: however objectionable he was, at least it wasn't done for effect. He probably did mean it, so at least you knew where he stood.
Sometimes with Frankie Boyle I find him amusing, but sometimes I feel that that is put aside purely to enforce the 'offensive' persona. right now, I have fairly mixed feelings about him.
I tend to go for the rule
that it's (just about) acceptable if a living target can answer back. If not, like the two jokes about Katie Price's son*, I'd leave it alone. So let him go all he likes about Katie or Kerry Katona, just know where the line really is Frankie
* however distasteful and unpleasant his mother may be, that's not his fault.
Why does there have to be a standard set?
That smacks of censorship to me and is unacceptable. If no-one goes to his shows then he stops being a comedian and has to get a proper job like the rest of us. You might not like it but he is very popular and there is bugger all you can do about it. I agree that some humour is distasteful or plain not funny - it doesn't mean it has to be banned. You have some books you want burned at the same time?
Straw Man
When have I said he should be banned? You have a right to see a grown man laugh at disabled kids. I have a right to find it unpleasant.
When you write
"But there has to be some sort of standard of what is or is not acceptable" it is quite reasonable to infer you are seeking censorship.
I don't like the Frankie Boyle "joke" either, but Steve's interpretation is the same as mine. If that's not what you mean, live up to your name and elucidate how we should interpret that remark.
Speaking personally...
...I have no problem with censoring jokes about minors. They have no mechanism for coping or replying, no legal recourse - nothing whatsoever. So yeah. Ban away, as far as I'm concerned. Not Boyle himself, of course, but this specific joke. IMO, he should not have been allowed a public platform to tell it.
If that makes me a censoring authoritarian fascist, well, I'll learn to live with it.
FAO Carl & Steve
I believe one has to have standards. Otherwise one is no better than a savage. Now show me again where I've asked for Boyle to be banned.
FAO Lucifer
I thought I'd made that point.
Wind your neck in
I've explained what I meant. Accept it or don't. Up to you son.
I suspect
I'm a little bit older than you, so don't try to patronise me.
Why not?
I'm just pushing boundaries man, I'm edgy.
i like frankie
and my morals are perfectly fine thank you very much
Ditto!
Boyle's my favourite standup of recent years and yet my moral compass is sat in the right place, frequently pointing to 'comedic north'; equally, I'm aware that 'ethics' is more than a just a place in East Anglia!
Enjoying most of the meats in the comedic stew, sometimes I'm up for something silly (Harry Hill), surreal (Python), political (Steele, Thomas), whatever what Sean Locke is (petty comedy?), clever (Seinfeld), or just downright brilliant (Bill S Hicks, Esq), and sometimes I want something that absolutely is on the cusp of acceptability (where or whatever that is), out there pushing at that envelope, maybe even going beyond it, and if there's a few laugh-out-observations about Dundee too then Frankies my man.
As with all things, if its too much for you, if you watch him hoping for a bit of edge, being beastly and going beyond the pale about subjects you don't give a shit about, and then it suddenly all goes a bit too far about something a little too close to home, then turn the TV over - as Stewart Lee says, other milder comedians are available!
BR
FT
Cusp of acceptability?
Are you saying that making a joke about a specific eight-year-old disabled child attempting to rape his mother (implicitly because of his disability) is on that cusp? 'Cos I'd say the cusp is a dot in the distance once you're making that "joke".
The horrible man can make all the jokes about Jordan he likes. The point is that her little boy has a number of difficulties, none of which are his fault any more than being born to Jordan is his fault. How - on what possible level - is he a legitimate target?
I like a sick joke, me. I really do. But this isn't a joke - it's just nasty, bullying shite from a grown man who, if he had any genuine intelligence or insight, would know better.
Close to home
It's not close to home for me at all. I just find it beyond the pale. And it's funny you mention Stewart Lee, a man who, in the very show you namecheck, rails against the whole 'hey, it's only a joke' defence.
Too many repeats..
Perhaps The Record just got annoyed at paying someone to repeat jokes from old episodes of MTW. The set of jokes is the equivalent of ten minutes of watching Dave.
C4 is about the best he'll get.
I doubt he'll be going to Hollywood.
Just imagine the furore...
...had Manning, Chubby Brown or Davidson tossed out the same "gag". I expect those lauding him for his bravery and the dreaded "dark and edgy" would be the same Twitterati foaming at the mouth and bombarding the media had any of the 70's era guys done it.
It wasn't funny, a poorly chosen and unfair target. There's no excuse for it other than bare faced publicity. What next in Boyle's stunning repetoire? A couple of Sambo jokes and a Joey Deacon impersonation?
A deeply unfunny man.
Maybe some witticisms
about domestic violence? Baby P? Just not funny.
Where does
Jerry Sadowitz fit into the Boyle - Manning question.
I have found him to be very funny since the late 80s but I can't make my mind up about Boyle. I liked the Susan Boyle material (I didn't get the Katie Price jokes, knowing nothing about the condition of her child).
The Pall Bearer
Now that's a GREAT question.
Where does Jerry Sadowitz sit on the acceptability spectrum? I think he's a much missed comedian with some great close-in magic. I personally found him very, very funny.
Here's the difference as I see it, and I think it was well expressed upthread. JS never, as far as I know, went after people who couldn't answer back. Crude, a sailing very close to the taste line, but never, well, nasty for the sake of being nasty.
Now, your definition of "nasty" may not be the same as mine. I found his "Christopher Reeve in a wheelchair" gag funny. I still smile when I read it. The Harvey Price gag? Nasty, and so far over the line I can't see the line any more. That was the joke of a man trying to equate shock with humor.
Maybe one of the questions should be: how does that so 'n so Boyle keeping getting paying gigs and Sadowitz is relegated to the shadows?
I was quite the Frankie fan, me.
When I saw him 1st on MTW, I thought he was well edgy. I even banged on once on a thread here about how the best comedy is informed by anger etc. I also really enjoyed his book.
But, pass me my slippers etc, that gag was abominable. It's like someone loudly telling a racist joke at the Christmas party: you just never feel quite the same way about them again.
Tramadol Nights is also a big, stinking dog.
A pity.
Comedy must have bite.
I couldn't bear it if the entire comedy canon consisted of safe, worthy comedians. There's room for silliness, surrealism, black humour, and yes, a bit of bad taste. Sometimes it's good to throw aside the safety net and see what happens.
But the difference in this case is the specifity of the gag and who it uses for a cheap laugh.
The actual target may be Katie Price, who has lived her life is the white heat of tabloid publicity, and is big enough and tough enough to deal with any personal insults which happen to be thrown her way. I personally can't abide the woman (judging her purely by her public persona) and feel like weeping when every new volume of her autobiographical bilge is released and becomes a bestseller.
But her severely disabled son Harvey - who no-one with any shred of decency could argue against him being as vulnerable and innocent as it's possible to be - is not fair game. Not in the name of edgy comedy. Not in the name of free speech. Not in the name of anything.
Wholeheartedly agree
with your comments and sentiments. When I first responded to this post it was in specific regard to the MJ gag which was funny in parts. As I said originally I don't know much about Frankie Boyle at all and doubt I would even recognise a photo of him. However, regardless of how tasteless his comments were about Harvey or anybody else for that matter, I am not sure we should advocate banning his performances or removing him from the public eye. If enough of his audience is outraged I am sure he will re-evaluate his routine.If they are not outraged then the indignation shown on here will count for nothing anyway.I am old enough to remember the furore caused by Til death us do part which was deemed racist. It was actually anti-racist but many people failed to pick up on the fact that Alf Garnett was a laughing stock for his views. A similar thing happened with Springsteens Born in the USA which many took to be a flag waving song of Patriotism as opposed to an anti-war anthem.
However
I note that Ms Price has now drawn attention to the joke on her website - thereby bringing it to a whole new audience - and stating her intention to sue C4.
I can't imagine how that will do the child any good at all. Which rather goes to reinforce Frankie Boyle's underlying point about the commodification of children by slebs.
Underlying point?
Was it BOLLOCKS! That joke had no "underlying point"! He just thought it would be really shocking - which in his book is the same as funny - to make a joke about a disabled kid. Don't give him the get-out clause of a subtext.
I'm with you on this one, Bob.
Any underlying point is irrelevant on this occasion.
I'm sure we all have our opinions on Katie Price's choices about bringing her children into the public domain. In Harvey's case I genuinely can't work out whether articles featuring him are actually a positive thing, because they raise awareness of disability and how it can affect absolutely anyone, or whether they're horribly opportunistic and exploitative, as fits the pattern of most of KP's Heat Magazine-filling tactics.
Whether you agree or not that it's a good idea for the children of famous people to be part of the 'cast' of a reality show, that still doesn't give anyone to right to say: "She's used her kids as a commodity, so therefore it's open season on her kids."
Not acceptable. Harvey hasn't consented to his part in the moral quagmire of tabloid life. Due to an extraordinarily unlucky round of chromosome roulette, he may never be able to give his informed consent to anything.
I respectfully disagree
If he thought it was funny to make a joke about disabled children in general, then he could have done so. He - unlike, say, John Lennon - did not.
There's a specific context that - arguably - provides humour in this case and that context is the way that slebs treat children as acessories. For that reason, I think that one of the jokes would have worked just as well with Madonna.
In the press
A Channel4 spokesperson defended their decision to broadcast the material, telling MailOnline yesterday: 'Frankie Boyle is one of the highest profile comedians in the UK; he’s well known for his controversial humour and the programme carried appropriate warnings as to the nature of the material.
'The joke aired in the context of a late night comedy show. The joke itself has been performed by Frankie as part of his stage show and, as with much of his material, is an absurdist and satirical comment on high profile individuals whose lives have been played out in the media.'
So Harvey is a high profile individual. I think not. Bollocks to Ofcom. In this instance I prefer the Harry Hill way of settling the argument, in a cage and against Alex Reid. Now THAT would be good television.
They cant admit what? hang on a minute…
I think the aggressive subtext of that diatribe can be summed up in the quote "Actually, they were all wearing white as usual, but that family had always had a little trouble admitting the difference." Now, concentrating on the word "admitting" - Bernard Manning and Roy Chubby Brown eat your racist hearts out. Thats all I can say.
Why is that racist?
Isn't it just a comment on the fact that Jacko relentlessly bleached his skin white, while the rest pretended not to notice?
Not so sure
Not when you put it in the context of the other stuff. So the same comedian who is happy to assume without question the late Mr Jacksons guilt over an issue as serious as child abuse, is now also criticising his family for not spotting the difference between black and white skin. And what do you think that difference really is Frankie? A sure way to spot Light Entertainment, is when the guy is wearing funny specs and an a pink suit.
Why single out Frankie Boyle?
I don't think that many of us would have been queuing up to ask Michael Jackson to babysit.
And try as I might, I still can't see the racist overtones that you do. As the rest of this thread illustrates, Mr Boyle would appear not to discriminate by colour when choosing his targets.
Said all I wanted to say about this phenomenon
here
and
here
I don't often wince at comedy
but his joke last night about Jordan's kid was in extremely poor taste.
A little disappointed
that "My Night Out With Frankie Boyle" didn't make the magazine this month ;o) http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/frankie-boyle
This just in,
From today's Daily Sport

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