So he said something stupid. Haven't we all? This is not a cause for a witch hunt, but then again maybe I'm just a sexist pig.

I posted a blog about this earlier but it didn't come up. I must've pressed preview instead of post.

But yeah, there's no doubt that Keys and Gray come over like a pair of golf club bores here, but then it was a private conversation. Like Gordon Brown's 'bigoted woman' incident back in May, I'm uncomfortable with it. I don't think any of us would want all of our private thoughts and comments laid bare. If they lose their (very long held) positions over this, I'll be very disappointed.

if you get paid well to cover football in the mainstream media and you make a significant mistake on air, you are not doing your job right. This is what they have done.

I don't agree with their point of view but they are allowed it. But as soon as they start expressing it on air, whether by mistake or not, then they can hardly moan about having to deal with the pressure.

One of the things I don't like about Andy Gray is his ability to undermine the decisions of officials made in the heat of the moment whilst he has the aid of countless replays, camera angles and a discussion with his co-host to form his opinion. Making the wrong decision in the heat of the moment may be coming back to haunt him.

And put simply, anyone who thinks a woman is unable to understand the offside decision because of genetics is an idiot.

It is a variant on the Ron Atkinson/Carol Thatcher incidents, isn't it? Although I suspect that Sky will stick with the gents.

The funny thing is that the assistant referee in question made a brilliant decision in the Wolves game when one of the Liverpool goals looked for all the world like it was off-side but was clearly shown not to be on the replay.

I saw a Leyton Orient Youth Cup game a few years ago refereed by a woman aged 25 or so, and the rivalry between the teams was decidedly 'spicy'.
However, the presence of an older female on the pitch definitely made the two sets of players more respectful when they were being spoken to.
Ditto a rugby union match (although those guys do tend to be more respectful) at Chingford last season.

is inherently sexist because so few women are involved in it at all levels. Racism in football was quite widespread when there were relatively few black footballers, now it has been virtually eradicated, in this country at least.

There is so much shit in the world at the moment, I think the media need to get all worked up about something that they feel they may be able to control.

If we protest about the price of fuel, the government does nothing,
If we protest about university fees, nothing happens,
If we protest about climate change, nothing happens

If we protest about some misogynistic pundit on a sports program, we can get him sacked.
If we protest about some newspaper editor knowing about phone hacking we can get him sacked - from multiple jobs
If we protest about criminal MPs we can get them convicted.

Yay, let's go for the path of least resistance and be seen to be achieving something. Oh and celebrity gossip sells more papers than important life-affecting stuff.

I'm not saying we shouldn't go after these people, but I wish we could put as much effort into important things as we do into this celebrity bashing.

*Sigh* I'm grumpy this morning.

did a Reading game recently, she was spot on, barely noticed her at all which is the point I suppose.

Unlike the all male trio we had officiating at last Saturday's game against Hull, they were bloody useless. They were men, professionals, who seemed to have no idea of the off-side rule so are they going to get slagged off and patronised I wonder?

Anyway, some of these pundits should put all their so called knowledge and experience of the game to better use and train up to become refs and linesmen/women. Might give them a much better insight into the game.

Mind you there is one woman I want out of football and that is the awful Blue Peter presenter wannabe who reads out emails in her short skirt perched on the edge of a desk in that goddawful Football League Show on BBC...jeez, where does the BBC get it's pundits and presenters from? And it's nothing to do with the fact she is a woman, just extremely irritating, as are Colin Murray and Gary Lineker and that idiot on ITV and Alan Shearer etc etc...

I'm sure I've seen a clip from around 15 years ago where Keys and Gray are presenting Monday night football and they show highlights from the Women's FA Cup Final.

The standard of football compared to their male counterparts was pretty woeful, but Keys and Gray are in absolute hysterics describing the action.

I'd say their viewpoints are pretty clear - they think women shouldn't be involved with football and they're sexist. I'm not sure what's gone on constitutes a sackable offence though.

This weekend I saw the highlights of the match where she ran the line (which the BBC edited to show how well she did in one particular case) and I also saw the Swedish documentary film "The Referee", about the guy who didn't spot Thierry Henry's handball against Ireland.

I couldn't help reflecting upon the fact that on the occasions when officials make an honest mistake the football world feels justified in either ranting on TV, disputing their right to pursue their professions or sending death threats to them while AT THE SAME TIME accepting that highly paid professional footballers will cheat at every available opportunity, thus going out of their way to make sure that referees make the wrong decision and be backed to the hilt by their managers.

Thought this was particularly interesting in the week that Elliot Saltman was banned from professional golf for three months because he was found to have minutely moved his own ball during a minor tournament in Russia. And here he was reported by his fellow players. I know there's no chance of football ever reaching the standards of sportsmanship that prevails in golf but the contrast in behaviour gives the lie to the idea that the stakes are so high in Premier League football that people can't help but try to deceive the officials.

... I think that there are a large number of football fans who would like to see Gray and, particularly, Keys removed from their posts.

How much of this is due to the incident yesterday, I cannot say, but there is a clear groundswell of opinion that the pair offer very little insight into the game and are long since past their best.

Were they wrong to say what they did yesterday? Of course. Should they be sacked for it? I'll leave that up to others.

What concerns me is that it's part of a growing trend among football pundits, spearheaded by Andy Gray, to attempt to preserve the domestic game's macho heritage.

Witness the sheer number of disastrously bad challenges we've seen in the last two seasons which the pundits (many of whom last played the game in an era where most players were far slower and 3 or 4 kg of solid muscle lighter) regard as "all part of the game". Witness Andy Gray's obsession with snoods, and who's wearing short sleeves and who's wearing long sleeves (recent highlight - proclaiming James Milner to be a "lad" for being the only Man City player to wear short sleeves in training - why does this matter?). Witness Gray's recent comment about Barcelona being unlikely to do it "on a wet Tuesday at Stoke" (a comment I'd have personally sacked him for on the spot).

I've played and watched football all my life. I recognise that there is and will always be a place in the game for hard man antics. But to see them trumpeted by middle aged, paunchy men from the safety of the commentary box is simply embarassing, and demonstrates that they're quite simply out of touch with the modern game at the top level.

Compare and contrast with the guest pundits we see at the World Cup (I'm thinking of the likes of Seedorf, Leonardo and Desailly here), whose knowledge and love of the game is matched by their erudition and ability to avoid speaking in simple minded cliches, and you get the sense that there are viable alternatives out there.

I would absolutely love to see Gray and Keys relieved of their duties and the task handed over to a fit and well Danny Baker, given carte blanche to speak his mind. Obviously, that won't happen, so I'll just dream of James Richardson taking charge instead.

Oh, and finally, as others have said - hats off to Sian Massey. She did a great job on Saturday and hers is a thankless task (as per all officials). The game couldn't live without the likes of Massey. It would be improved without the likes of Gray and Keys.

about the last World Cup. The multitude of cameras, slo-mo and high def, made it painfully apparent that all of the players will cheat all of the time. Referees, of whatever gender, have an utterly thankless task.

Who knew ?

Given how legend has it that Karren gained a foothold in her industry (leave it there m'learned friends) and year after year of ensuing shrill "girl power" type bollocks, I find it a tad hypocritical that she has the brass monkeys to scream sexism.

Anyone know what the Mirror actually reported about her that was sexist?

Just a load of noise and a sympathy nod to keep her profile high in readiness for the Olympic Stadium bid....

...I'm going to come across all Guardian reader (guilt as charged m'lud) but...

These two are arguing that this woman is not up to the job purely on the basis that she is a woman. And by that logic this is not a job for any woman. That sound preposterous to me

Does that lessen their credibility to do the job they are paid for? If their analysis of this footballing issue is so flawed, then why should I assume that they know anything else about the game.

Are Sky news endless repeating this snippit of conversation as they did with Gordon Brown's comments during the election campaign?

but I'm far too busy sleeping my way to the top.

*sighs*

A woman's work is never done...

You could say that at the moment refereeing in professional men's football is no job for a woman because physical intimidation of the officials is a key part of the game in a way it's not in, say, rugby. Maybe that could be the best argument for the introduction of female officials.

According to Sky News, Andy Gray and Richard Keys have been 'stepped down' of their duties for tonight's Bolton v Chelesa match.

I can watch sky sports

is that the comment was so lame. It's like the whole Frankie Boyle "children with Down's syndrome are badly dressed" thing or the Daily Mail's "all asylum seekers are trying to fiddle benefit/steal your job/rape your wife, etc. It's just such a hackneyed thing to say - ill-thought through, boring and based on out-of-date stereotypes.

In the past there probably were more women who didn't understand the offside rule but that's because football - like many aspects of society - wasn't as inclusive as it is now. Things change.

What Keys and Gray said wasn't really offensive, it just made them look like silly, sniping schoolboys annoyed because the teacher let the girls use their changing room.

Gray suing the NOTW?

To get a cart load of referees in the Sky Sports studio, kit them up with all the hi-tech gadgets that Wallace & Gromit use and have them analyse all the mistakes that Keys & Gray make during a game.

Having a night off, still being paid, hardly seems punishment.

are we saying that women do understand the offside rule now? Because that's not my experience. It was a lame joke made off air. Who is offended by this? Really, who is actually offended by the comment? If a woman on the telly was to make a comment pointing out that men wont ask for directions it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, I'd think they had made a silly joke and feel embarrassed for them for having said it, but I'd still accept that there is a general truth contained with it.

Keys has come out of this looking like the knob that he is. I'd have sacked him years ago but only for the fact that he's shit at the job.

will at least make Richard Keys & Andy Gray stop for a minute and think about what they were saying.

Which is essentially this: a professionally trained and qualified woman, with a great deal of experience, who has been promoted to the top of her trade, can't do her job because she's a woman.

Now I don't know if Richard or Andy have adult daughters (they might well have).

Let's just imagine one of them had a daughter who had studied law at university, and through diligence, intelligence and hard work, had become a barrister.

Now picture Richard or Andy overhearing two male barristers talking about their daughter and saying there was no place for women barristers, it was a joke her even being allowed to practice law, and hey, aren't women ridiculous for considering there was any form of 'sexism' in the workplace.

Of course, they'd be perfectly happy to dismiss that as a bit of 'banter'. Wouldn't they?

and most, if not all the dads who offer to run the line (offer being a bit of a stretch as no one really wants to do it) don't know the offside rule. I have yet to have a mum volunteer.

I think this suggests that, probably the only people who know the offside rule are those who have taken the courses and passed the exam. Certainly most players don't understand it judging by the faces they pull when they're given offside. And that is processional players not U12's. They just look bemused.

The general mood is that they are a couple of knobs and a change is probably due anyway and I agree.
But I really do think that they have to be fired for this simply because there will be a rise in the use of women in key positions in football and as such anything they say in support will not be believed and will only come across as trite and toeing the line.
Get them off the show and inject some new blood.
I suggest Gaby Logan presenting and Germaine Greer providing the analysis

does anyone understand the offside law? I'm blowed if I do

And as a man I'm finding this assumption that we understand what that is a little bit sexist.

At this point I should say that I have worked in media. The kind of behaviour Gray and Keys have been indulging in? It's not uncommon in sports departments. That is all.

and now I'm going to read a bedtime story to my daughter and try to convince myself that everything will have changed by the time she is starting her adult life *deep sigh*

who used to be a referee (but I'm legitimate, who knew?!) just said "it's not an offside 'rule', its laws that govern the game". That is why people hate refs, isn't it? And why I despise football.

I see that the two dicks (although only one Richard) were defended on Sky News by Jon Gaunt. And he wouldn't be biased\bitter about a similar incident in his failure of a media career would he?

...is that they are extinct. Time's up for Gray and Keys methinks.

that we're all giving our support to the lady who's worked her way to the top of a male dominated profession by overcoming more than an off air jibe between two stupid men who should know better. I bet she has some stories to tell because she must have started with Sunday morning football between hungover Neanderthals and I'm sure she even gets some stick now. I watched on Sunday and she was last out join the teams and officials in the tunnel and the ref and Wolves captain definitely found something funny about that, I wonder what was said and if anyone had their mobile handy to record it. I'd like to hear what she thinks about all the fuss which means her job will be even more difficult and I would have made Keys and Gray interview her this evening and discuss where she got so many decisions right on Saturday. No doubt she would have handled it with aplomb and left them squirming in front of their fancy monitors. Suspending them means the can swerve the issue, they're all idiots except her.

He has phoned the assistant ref to apologize - according to Sky News,

Don't get involved with things you know nothing about. Listen! There's a baby crying. Off you go.

can't really see what all the fuss is about and reckoned that the best punishment for them would have been to make them do the show last night and apologise live on air - a bit of humiliation and humble pie seems appropriate given that no-one died.

Interesting to hear last night as well that her next appearance will be at Crewe tonight. Just our luck. I bet she forgets the offside rule when it counts tonight.

Only ever seen one lady lino at Crewe in the past. She gave an awful decision and our fullback got a straight red for calling her a fucking bitch. Mind you, if I had a pound for every crap decision given by a chap I'd be very wealthy.

1. On 18 January football pundit Andy Gray brought legal proceedings for phone-hacking against the News of the World.

2. On 23 January Andy Gray and Richard Keys - employed as presenters by BSkyB - were recorded, without their knowledge and by parties unknown, making sexist comments about a female linesman and West Ham vice chairman Karren Brady. Within hours the tape of their conversation was in the public domain.

3. Karren Brady is employed as a columnist by The Sun.

4. On 24 January The Times dedicated 40% of its front page to the Lineswomangate story.

5. On 25 January The Sun contained seven different stories, angles and sidebars about the affair - including Karren Brady's column.

[It's probably nothing, but check who owns/controls The News of the World, BSkyB, The Sun and The Times, just on the off chance there might be a connection - Ed.]

Potential abuse of power there. Potential illustration of news international internal politics.

Gray remains a bell end though.

You can read it here. I particularly like her closing remarks:

Personally I'm amazed that the overheard conversation between Richard Keys and Andy Gray didn't catch them saying anything worse. I am quite sure they are too.

...I can see Keys having only the choice of TalkSport or ESPN, after a period of time. But Andy Gray, like him or loathe him, has a solid reputation among TV pundits. Although the BBC couldn't touch him, ITV would and it would be brave for Sky to get rid of him. Live games would feel his absence, and I reckon that's Sky's opinion.

according to BBC 5. I would put a small wager that he may EVENTUALLY end up as a BBC 5 summerizer, via say Channel 5 telly.

keep showing a clip of him in December making a lewd comment to a female presenter but I can't make out what the hell he's saying. Apparently this is the final straw. So Sky have obviously been trawling through the office Xmas tape.

And said reporter who joined in with that touchline banter has been suspended. Its all kicking off, if you pardon the pun

take a bow son, take a bow.

Done up like a kipper

and woohoo....what a way to lose my picture posting cherry.....tikaboo son....

...when you sup with the devil, use a long spoon. If Andy Gray was suing the Big Boss you would think he would not give Sky a single excuse to get rid of him.

it seems unlikely that keys & gray have changed their personalities in any significant way while employed by sky, so it seems *coincidental* that some recorded examples of pinheaded, adolescent sexism bubble to the surface all of a sudden - leading to the question, why now?

(i mean, if andy gray was making jokes about young female presenters tucking his shirt in - her hands are near my willie, lol - in december 2010, i'd be surprised if it wasn't happening in december 2009, 2008, 2007 etc) ...

Meanwhile, it has emerged that the Football Association switchboard was inundated with calls yesterday from women enquiring about becoming officials.

The revolution has begun...

What that makes the sinister despot of the evil empire I don't know.

There is a video doing the rounds this morning of Keys asking Jamie Redknapp whether he'd be interested in having intercourse with the woman they're discussing. He also states that he could imagine him doing so.

Or, in layman's terms, he says 'would you smash it?' and 'I can see Redknapp hanging out the back of it'.

P45 for him too soon, I'd imagine.

I think it is highly likely that Mr Grey and Keyes had as many enemies inside as outside Sky. The lads were getting too big for their boots and it was only a matter of time. Their attitudes may play well in the Dog and Duck at shutting time but stone cold soaber? See Martin Samuel on The Mail website for a different slant on the issue. (I know its the Mail but he is a good writer, honest)

Now can you imagine a quality newspaper printing a complaint from an anonymous male worker at, say, Marie Claire that "There's this girly vibe and it's like a women's club"?

I freelanced on a few women's magazines and – although the editorial staff were overwhelmingly female – I found everyone perfectly pleasant and not-at-all annoying. Sexist it was not.

But got the inside story from a pal who works at Sky as a reporter.
Gray and Keys (and Burton) thought of as odious wankers most were unable to work with and a cabale who saw themselves above the rest. Contracts of more than £1.5m (in the case of Gray) made that even more difficult to take and their deep unpopularity was becoming block in proposed plans to remodel coverage.
The whole thing has been a set-up to get rid of them.
As for Karen Brady, another journalism pal worked at Brum recently, and says she is as mad as a bag of badgers, a dictator with a very slim grasp of the football industry.

Listened to it for the first time on the David Mitchell blog earlier today.

I couldnt detect any humour or irony in the way it was said, it sounded like opinionated, bigoted men thinking that what they thought was all that counted, if you didnt agree with them, you were wrong.

I never watched the game in question, (just got rid of Sky, moved on to Freesat), but by all accounts, she made a really big, potentially very contentious call absolutely correctly.

with all of the technology available to them, did AG & RK mention this offside decision? &, if they did, did they credit her with making the correct call?

I would be really interested to know how that decision panned out.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/08/richard-keys-andy-gray-talks...

Ideal place for them I reckon