Sorry to spoil, but they were both on a wet friday or saturday night on this disused aerodrome near Stratford and were both pretty dire. For Van it was the Brian Kennedy echolalia years and for Bob the undecipherable dirge years. I recall dispiritedly driving home after the second of them had played, coming across a very disgruntled sou'westered John Peel wandering around grumpily amongst the hot dog vans. Thank the Lord for Glastonbury the year before and for Blackbushe to at least confirm, respectively, that they can indeed put on a corking show when inclined.

It's ok, isn't it? 1970 was good for both of them: New Morning and Moondance. But I see what you're saying.

I'm not altogether sure if Bob knows the lyrics and has just settled for doing an impression of himself growling.

...now and it's OK. I wouldn't say anything Van has done has been truly embarassing (I couldn't say that about Bob Dylan or, indeed, Neil Young!) but by the same token, he is not taking many real risks and there's no doubt to me that there's a formulaic feel to his work that's not really evident with Bob Dylan.

My favourite Van work was in the 70s and 80s. It was the 90s that I found to have some of his weakest material;the albums that came out in what Retropath labels the 'echolalia' years was especially weak for him, I felt. That run of 'Too Long In Exile'/'How Long Has This Been Going On'/'The Healing Game' is very disappointing indeed from someone who once gave us albums as gorgeous and inventive as 'Veedon Fleece' or 'Common One'. Still, I personally like 'Magic Time' and 'Keep It Simple' much more than most of his 90s output.

..to say it on this site but I found myself at a Dylan concert a few years ago wishing that we could turn the clock back to when you could actually understand Dylan's voice not the tuneless growl it is now. He might as well be speaking the lyrics. On the album front...Time out of Mind was good but Love and Theft/Modern Times are vastly overrated.

Van can at least still sing although again i can't help feeling that the fall in album standards times perfectly with when his own voice dropped down a bit towards the end of the 1970s

is overrated, I'll grant you; but I think Modern Times is his best since Desire.

... I loved "LOVE AND THEFT" and thought MODERN TIMES was overrated.

On the other hand, the last Van album I really enjoyed was probably NO GURU, NO METHOD, NO TEACHER.

Let's take 'JWH' as a peak for Dylan. With 'Astral Weeks' in 1968 this is the first point of equilibrium.

Dylan then began the downswing though 'Self Portrait', 'New Morning', 'Pat Garret' etc. that eventually turned around with an upswing to 'BOTT' and 'Desire' in 1975. At this same time Van was on a roll with 'Moondance', 'Tupelo Honey', 'St Dominc's ..' etc. that began to falter around 1975 with a lack of product then 'A Period of Transition' in 1976.

I would say that around 1977 / 1978 - 'Street Legal' and 'Into The Music' is probably the second point of equilibrium.

The early 1980's belong to Van without question: 'Beautiful Vision & 'A Sense of Wonder' against 'Down In The Groove' and 'Knocked Out Loaded' etc.

Personally I would rate Van's last truly worthy album as 'No Guru ...' in 1987; Dylan releases 'Oh Mercy' in 1989. Another point of equilibrium perhaps?

Van follows with a few good tracks here and there but mainly the long slow decline that JJ refers to. Meanwhile over roughly the same period Dylan builds up slowly though the acoustic albums to deliver 'Time Out of Mind', 'Love & Theft' & "Modern Times'.

Certainly 'Keep It Simple' is marginally better than its previous five or six predecessors but only just.

If the theory holds the prediction would be for Dylan's next to be a bit of a disappointment, leading shortly to 'Self Portrait II' with Van's next masterpiece due in 2010. I'm sure this is the basis for a thesis or a course at some new University?

I know ... I should get out more.

Van's last best LP was surely Irish Heartbeat, the collaboration with the Chieftains (I can't rid myself of Spike Milligan's description of them: "Nice blokes, they've got a blind barber though").

Since then, there have been decent tracks, but none of them together on one LP. I stopped taking an interest around 1990, when I realized there were only so many ways of combining "Avalon", "God", "gardens", "healing" and "mystic" in a lyric, and Van had more or less exhausted them all.

Paradoxically I think that his voice is now better than it's ever been, and that if he did what Rod Stewart did now, i.e. knock out old standards for the Woolies market, he'd be rather good at it.

Check out "Behind The Ritual" off Keep It Simple and "Celtic New Year" off Magic Time. Van's still on it, the odd time.

... "quiet day" Steven C because I believe your peak point equilibrium stages are bloody perfect!! Had never thought of it before. Thanks for the thread.

Not sure about your 2010 prediction but who knows.......

Of course, we should put all these meanderings in focus. I mean, to produce one great song is an achivement in itself never mind the body of work that each of these two guys have done.

Based on my own highly scientific 0-10 marking system.

Raw data is here. I'm sure everyone will agree with my scores, maybe.

... can you do pie-charts?

Factoring in a margin for subjective assessment (I mean only a 7 for 'JWH'?) I think we have proof positive that there is some sort of karmic force at work. And superbly presented if I may say so Paul. Clearly your day was as quiet as my own!

....work.

May you both have many quiet days!!!

I'm new to this posting your views stuff, and may be misinterpreting it, but at first glance it appears some people are trying to compare Bob Dylan with Van Morrison...is this some kind of joke ???
It's like comparing Pavarotti to Paul Potts, in fact its worse than that !
Has Van Morrison re-defined music and changed the way songs were written / performed for whole generations? Has Van Morrison influenced even 0.000000001% of the number of people that Dylan's music and writing have?
Though I admire some of Dylans music, I'm not a die-hard fan, but there is no comparison whatsoever.
Modern Times is excellent, 'cos even though poor old Bobs voice is knackered, it does work on the grittier songs pretty well.
Can't beat a music debate eh ?

Finally got around to watching this last night. What a fantastic show that must have been to have been to, from the venue to the crackling form of Grumpus Maximus and to the exemplary band. Grumpy was as avuncular and urbane as I have ever seen him, speaking, o, at least twice to the audience, and even, dare I say it, seeming to enjoy the show, not that one can ever be sure. Jeez, he was even in clear lensed specs, rather than the shades he habituates usually. Mainly recentish material, drawn from the last 10 years or so, including his current Keep It Simple. I have yet to hear the CD so uncertain how faithful the arrangements were, but there seemed a strong country-ish influence lingering on from his earlier C&W outing, with fiddle and mandolin, together with an enthusiastic and excitable woman playing steel, dobro and banjo. Extremely well. And John Platania back in the fold, looking like a slightly raffish civil rights lawyer, but playing like a champeen. Rest of the band seemed broadly much the same as recent line-ups, as demonstrated by the, by comparison, lacklustre and going thru' the motions excerpts culled from various Jool Holland shows. (Have to say that Mr Holland added rather than detracted by his tinklings therein, looking as if he was making a real effort, in keeping, rightfully, with the need to be up to speed with a top notch band) Especial mention for the Georgie Fame and Mick Green cameo appearances, the former seeming really to spark off Vans involvement. As they hit Vanlose Stairway, not even in itself usually much of a standout song, suddenly what was obviously already a very sound performance went positively (sorry)into the mystic.
I am sure, like the Bryan Ferry BBC4 session, this will eventually appear on DVD. However, and given the concurrent "Live LPs" strand ongoing on this site, what chance of a simple audio CD? It could be up there alongside Vans best such performances, I feel, albeit still a step or so behind Too Late to Stop Now, but certainly better than the more recent Belfast and L.A .live discs.
Come on, the BBC, lets have a Dylan show commissioned!