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Don't treat me like a fool

Fazackerly's picture

There is a sign in our office toilets that says "Wet, soap, wash, rinse, dry". Well, you don't say. Are we so crap that we are employing people who have not yet learnt how to wash their hands? Must we be treated like babies? How much does it cost to produce these idiotic things?

0
Bob | 26 April 2010 - 11:42am

You're right

I do love it. Thanks for the recommendation, it is a really good read.

1
Fazackerly | 27 April 2010 - 10:00am

Brilliant.

Glad to have been of service. It's a corker!

0
Bob | 27 April 2010 - 10:23am

Global Handwashing Day, 15 Oct 2010

Get it in the diary now. http://www.globalhandwashingday.org/Index.asp

There are similar signs where I work. Fear of swine flu prompted a great many more to be posted. During a rant of a similar nature the FPO (who works in public health) pointed out that research suggests between a third and half of men don't wash their hands after using the toliet, and c.20% of women. Which is why she never eats the free snacks sometimes put out in bars.

0
fortuneight | 26 April 2010 - 12:22pm

I've actually been at a service station

where I've seen a bloke come out of a cubicle in the gents (where I assume he's had a tommy tit) stop at the mirrors, wipe his hands on his trousers (I assume to dry off some splash-back) and then walk straight out without washing his hands. A couple of minutes later he's at the self-service section of the food area picking up and putting down rolls with his hands at the soup counter and then doing the same with the scones in the chiller cabinet. I was astounded.

0
Ahh_Bisto | 26 April 2010 - 1:12pm

Situations like that...

...make you want to never eat out anywhere ever

.

Didn't Kenneth Williams ask that no visitor use his toilet?

0
kb | 26 April 2010 - 4:18pm

At home I always wash

but in a public lavvy, if I can get in and out without touching anything, apart from my "old man", then I rationalise that my germs must be preferable to any that I could pick up from touching taps, soap dispenser, door, etc etc

0
latenitetellyvision | 26 April 2010 - 1:02pm

Churchill had a theory on this too:

Young man: (seeing Churchill leaving the bathroom without washing his hands): At Eton they taught us to wash our hands after using the lavatory.
Churchill: At Harrow they taught us not to piss on our hands.

Personally I always operate the dispensing, drying machinery and doors with my elbows.

0
Steerpike | 26 April 2010 - 1:15pm

I think you're looking at this backwards

While your urine might be sterile, the area around your crotch is absolutely crawling with all kinds of bacteria, many of which originated in your intestine, some of which are deadly. By not washing post-pee, you're going to spread these round.

0
Fraser Lewry | 26 April 2010 - 1:18pm

Not really true.

In someone with adequate standards of personal hygiene, willy bacteria will be much the same as any normal skin commensals. Bacteria don't crawl round from your bum. They can't because they're non-motile. Most gut bugs are anaerobic and can't survive exposure to oxygen for long. Touch yourself, and only yourself in a bog and there isn't really a problem. Touch anything else and you should wash your hands, paying attention to the fingertips.

0
Lenny Law | 26 April 2010 - 3:08pm

I spotted at least

five potential Fall song titles in there.

14
Pax Romana | 26 April 2010 - 3:11pm

So glad

I didn't have any food or drink in my mouth when I read that, Pax.

You've been upped.

0
nigelthebald | 26 April 2010 - 3:15pm

I'd like to claim

The Non-Motile Bum Bugs as my new fantsay band name

0
fortuneight | 26 April 2010 - 3:24pm

Ah well...

Serves me right for relying on The Straight Dope for my facts.

0
Fraser Lewry | 26 April 2010 - 3:33pm

Thank heavens for Lenny

Your 'crotches crawling with bacteria' post quite put me off my lunch, Fraser.

My attitude to oral sex changed a bit, too.

0
Albert Edward | 26 April 2010 - 4:14pm

indeed...

it might be grim up north, but it's filthy down south....

2
ivan | 26 April 2010 - 4:19pm

and that's the way

uh-huh uh-huh, I like it, uh-huh uh-huh

Funkaaaaay

0
Glenbervie | 26 April 2010 - 7:52pm

Ewww

Yes. Sorry about that. I'll keep the more biological posts away from meal times in future.

0
Fraser Lewry | 26 April 2010 - 4:20pm

For more information..

http://www.nature.com/jidsp/journal/v6/n3/full/5640052a.html

Bit complex but the bottom bit is important. So-called gram negative organisms (almost all gut bacteria are gram negative)are rarely found on the skin.

Bacterial names would make good band-names orr Fall songs. Pseudomonas aereginosa, bacteroides, klebsiella, actinobacillus actinomycetamcommitans..

0
Lenny Law | 26 April 2010 - 4:37pm

Interesting article

It mentions 'Dead Keratinocytes'. Didn't they have the hit with 'Holiday In Cambodia'?

0
Steerpike | 26 April 2010 - 4:53pm

Hmm

I don't think this says quite that. It says that gram -ves are not part of the normal flora of dry skin. Quite so. However I think it would be a mistake to extrapolate that to saying that the skin is a gram -ve free zone, from which they are never transmitted to areas where they might thrive and cause problems.

At the risk of putting anyone off their Horlicks, the special features of the willy - relatively warm, relatively moist (particularly under the foreskin) and with traces of a good growth medium - make it intuitively a more attractive place for bacteria to multiply than, for example, the face.

0
Lando Cakes | 26 April 2010 - 11:19pm

You were right!

If the genital area was a clean as our resident dentist claims (and his might well be, of course) there would never be any urinary tract infections, for example. And yet there are - lots of them.

Just wash every time, chaps.

0
Lando Cakes | 26 April 2010 - 11:06pm

Motile

Aren't at least some bacteria motile? Hence the flagellae. And many are faculative anaerobes - they'll live/exist in the presence of oxygen quite happily. E. coli being a case in point.

Residual urine is a wonderful growth medium and that, combined with other secretions and a moist, warm environment, might be why we'd expect a higher bacterial load in the, ahem, willy area.

And what with bacteria being microscopic you won't see them - best to wash your hands, just to be on the safe side.

Believe me, as other posts in this thread illustrate, the last thing you want to do is to encourage anyone not to wash their hands. Like driving ability, there's often little correlation between what people think they're like and the reality...

0
Lando Cakes | 26 April 2010 - 7:56pm

Flagellate bugs.

Move around in liquid media. Not on skin.

I'd forgotten that E. Coli is a facultive anaerobe.. But if you had loads of evil bugs setting up home under your fiveskin and on your herman gelmet, the first thing you'd get would be balanitis. I'd still contend that, in someone with decent personal hygiene habits, the infective load is too low to bother with.

In case you're wondering, yes I do wash my hands a lot. Almost obsessively. Comes with the territory.

0
Lenny Law | 26 April 2010 - 11:16pm

Good grief

My hands are going to be ABSOUTELY FILTHY by October

2
Fazackerly | 26 April 2010 - 1:03pm

The words Serving Suggestion

on tinned food. In particular I like these words with the photo on soup tins of said contents in a bowl with a spoon in the immediate vicinity. I can only presume that there were great swathes of the population who struggled though life consuming their soup with a plate and a fork until this picture and the words serving suggestion duly arrived, thus emancipating them all from the shackles of inappropriate crockery and cutlery.

0
Ahh_Bisto | 26 April 2010 - 12:44pm

Serving Suggestion

Serving Suggestion means there is something in the picture which is not in the packet or tin. No matter how hard you rummage around the corners of the plastic tray, you will not find that all-important sprig of parsley.

0
PeteWingrave | 26 April 2010 - 12:49pm

That must be...

...why there isn't some bird with a red swimming cozzie on in my cereal. Always disappointing.

0
Bob | 26 April 2010 - 1:45pm

Are You Sure, Pete

I'm sure I've seen tins of peas/sweetcorn with a 'Serving Suggestion' that just depicts the contents in a bowl/on a plate ?

Maybe my eyesight is defective (ulp!)

0
Badlands | 26 April 2010 - 4:17pm

Was the plate in the tin?

I rest my case.

1
PeteWingrave | 26 April 2010 - 6:33pm

Has anyone ever established...

... whether there is a correlation between washing hands and the means provided for drying them? I imagine a lot of people don't bother if it's these generally useless air dryer thingies, but more wash if there are proper paper (or cloth) towels to wipe their hands with.

0
PeteWingrave | 26 April 2010 - 12:44pm

The Prisoner

Every day, in the lift at Tufnell Park tube station, a snooty schoolma'am voice nags me incessantly:

"Keep clear of the doors... Do NOT obstruct the doors... Keep all belongings with you... No smoking ANYWHERE on the Underground... Don't forget to touch in and touch out with your Oystercard..."

And so it goes on... "Hands out of pockets... Don't forget your mittens... Are you chewing?" etc, etc.

1
Nick White | 26 April 2010 - 12:52pm

You should see what I'm supposed to have on display.

Written protocols for hand washing and disinfection, how to take off gloves, infection control policy, infection control checklist, sharps decontamination checklist, impression disinfection checklist, radiation local rules..

And it is almost all utter, utter bollocks, telling you how to do what you already know, which consumes enormous amounts of time and huge volumes of paper for absolutely no discernible improvements.

0
Lenny Law | 26 April 2010 - 1:03pm

"Persuasion and Zombies" by Jane Austen

Expenditure on advertising in the UK alone hit £19.4bn in 2007 for the simple reason that it works. It is quite easy to persuade saps like US that we need to go with Apple or Magnum choc-ices rather than with any other brand, or to reinforce the fact that what webuyanycar.com do is buy any car.

It takes no great leap, therefore, to imagine why it might be that our employers would spend a bit of money on patronising signs if it meant that their outlay on such would be considerably smaller than the amount they lose from absenteeism every year due to project managers who forget to wash influenza off their hands.

We're quite happy to live in a world where everything from snooker player's waistcoasts to wordmagazine.co.uk carry messages telling us what we should buy, and most of us that have worked in the media at some point are happy to admit that it works on us as much as much as it works on our "target demographic".

How many of us, for example, doggedly stayed within our iPod sexy-cool bubble once we'd tasted the magic of feeling "included", even though it was the common opinion of many audiophiles that Creative Labs made better, more reliable mp3 players that weren't chained to proprietary software?

If you take profit out of the equation though, so many of us suddenly fling our arms on the air and screech about how this rampant nannyism is hogging every last inch of our shared visual landscape and hobbling us into brainwashed, zombie-walking, wards of the state.

Witness the recent furore in the US in relation to "Behaviour Placement" in network TV programmes, in which environmentally responsible behaviour is supposedly being "subliminally" encoded into popular programmes like The Office, Law & Order and 30 Rock. Firstly, it's actually a misnomer to label any of this placement as "subliminal" for the simple reason that none of it is actually being placed beneath our consciousness; if it was, it wouldn't have been so readily noticed by almost everyone in the USA with a telly.

More importantly, of course, such programmes would never have enjoyed the budgets they do if they hadn't already leased out every available inch of their mise-en-scene to everyone from Pepsi, Hewlett Packard, and Bloomingdales through to Kelloggs, and I don't see anyone taking arms against those boys (apart from polymaths, autodidacts, visionaries and bitch magnets like Mark E Smith, of course).

So anyway, yes, where was I? Oh yes, we're deeply social animals who're either hard-wired with or who have acquired both a rudimentary moral compass and a need to be seen as socially acceptable. For that (and probably many other) reasons, we are profoundly suggestible, even when we see that suggestion process working on us. The only "fool" is, as usual, the person who thinks it doesn't work on them.

0
Pax Romana | 26 April 2010 - 1:10pm

Apple choc- ices ??

Cool- Apple do choc-ices now ? Where can I buy one ?

0
chrisf | 26 April 2010 - 4:47pm

http://store.apple.com/uk ?

0
stimpy | 26 April 2010 - 4:50pm

(I've got my coat ready)

It's called an iPud.

(I'll take my leave now)

2
Pax Romana | 27 April 2010 - 12:28am

Behaviour Placement

has been going on for longer than you might think. The Archers was originally started as one big behaviour placement exercise by the Min of Ag to try and provide information to farmers in a non-authoritarian fashion, reasoning that they tend(ed) to be sceptical and wary of anything 'The Man From The Ministry' tells them to do.

0
stimpy | 26 April 2010 - 1:19pm

Aren't Most American TV Episodes

morality fables, with a coda so that we can be told what we have learnt or made 'to feel good about ourselves', or get a message about how bad felons are/the wages of sin etc.?

0
Badlands | 26 April 2010 - 4:20pm

Which is why my favourite US sitcom was

Married With Children - gloriously moral-free, and funny to boot.

0
Douglas | 26 April 2010 - 8:11pm

Oh yes

Al Bundy is a folk hero to all. Or he bloody should be.

0
illuminatus | 26 April 2010 - 8:23pm

And was all

the better for it if I may say so.

0
Dr.Pill | 26 April 2010 - 6:23pm

Our lavs

have a sign schoolmarmishly comparing the "global warming burden" of the nasty old paper towel and the lovely new air hand dryer. Said sign sits snugly between the two drying methods, both of which are offered.

0
Gary Parkinson | 26 April 2010 - 1:24pm

A few months back I finally found somewhere that had

installed Dyson Airblades in their washrooms. Blimey, they're good!

http://www.dysonairblade.co.uk/

1
stimpy | 26 April 2010 - 1:28pm

Those things...

...are the Ferrari of the post-wee hand-exsiccation world. I want one in the house.

0
Bob | 26 April 2010 - 1:48pm

At £600+

I'm sticking to towels.

0
Fraser Lewry | 26 April 2010 - 1:51pm

If you ever see...

...a slightly overlarge scruffy bloke kneeling in a public lavs, check to see if he's holding a screwdriver. If he is, don't worry: it's not what you think. It's me, trying to nick the Airblade.

0
Bob | 26 April 2010 - 2:19pm

The only place I've seen the mighty Airblades 'Up North'...

... was in the gents toilets in the MetroCentre - and now they've bloody gone and taken them away! Buggers...

0
Reno Dakota | 26 April 2010 - 4:51pm

they are common in Edinburgh*

Insomuchas anything is 'common' in Edinburgh. North of Gateshead last time I checked.

* as in 'not unknown'

1
Glenbervie | 26 April 2010 - 8:00pm

No

there are Airblades in the student toilets on our campus in Scarborough. They work fabulously well.

0
illuminatus | 26 April 2010 - 8:22pm

What's wrong with wiping your hands on your shirt?

Works for me.

0
Patrick Crowther | 26 April 2010 - 9:08pm

"LENNYYYYYYYY!!!!"

Get over here, quick.

0
stimpy | 27 April 2010 - 6:57am

Nothing wrong with wiping your hands on your shirt.

You've got to spit on them first, mind. It's unhygenic otherwise.

0
Lenny Law | 27 April 2010 - 12:42pm

Lavatory Police

Some thirty odd years ago I worked in a Mail Order Company,
tedious in the extreme, but the management were thrown out of the Gestapo for cruelty, their bugbear was grafitti in the Gents, and one in particlar,"There once was a man from Westphalia, who painted his arse like a dahlia, threepence a smell was all very well, but sixpence a lick was a failure."
All male staff were required to produce handwriting samples",and as a result somebody got their cards. They say confession is good for the soul.

1
stevieblunder | 3 May 2010 - 9:55am

In the recent ice age

I found this Council road sign to be especially helpful. Not as helpful as the several inches of ice and snow on the road, though.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4205691059_b55724a048_b.jpg

0
WarwickHunt | 26 April 2010 - 2:08pm

The one I like

...is when there is a sign, usually in workplaces, saying "Now Wash Your Hands" so you go to the sink and it has scaldingly hot water. And no plug for the sink so you can try to get an acceptable mix. Genius really.

0
Doods | 26 April 2010 - 3:29pm

With the push-tap design favoured in public conveniences

...I've often wondered how user-friendly they are to people who only have one hand. They'd have to be pretty quick.

0
Gary Parkinson | 26 April 2010 - 4:05pm

A sign in our loo here at work says:

"This blind is kept closed to obscure your outline from the offices opposite"

Now, unless you're Cyrano De Bergerac surely it's not really an issue that anyone sees your profile through frosted glass? It's so frosted as to render any image a mere blur anyway.

0
Five-Centres | 26 April 2010 - 3:41pm

Presumably then,

it was them across the road that complained?

0
skirky | 26 April 2010 - 3:47pm

All this handwashing and drying is great...

..but until they start making doors where you don't have to pull the handle to open them to get out, this hygiene business is flawed.

Human sized catflaps are my suggestion. So we can forward roll out of loos.

If, sorry, when it pops up next series of Dragons Den, remember where you heard about it first.

6
Resting Place | 26 April 2010 - 3:51pm

Obviously This is the Solution

Amazing that it hasn't been thought of before. Presumably though, there would need to be in flaps and out flaps, to prevent people from forward rolling right into each other. Or is the rolling only on the way out?

0
Fazackerly | 26 April 2010 - 4:23pm

That sounds fun.

As does in-flaps and out-flaps. Albeit for different reasons.

0
Adman | 26 April 2010 - 9:58pm

In Flaps

that's a terrible idea. You'd be rolling into the Lake of Piss (c. Ben Elton 1985) which is found in all public conveniences and - I'd have to check with Lenny on this - that might actually be worse for your health (and your pulling power) than a couple of drops of wee on your fingers.

Of course some idiot would just put up a sign saying "Caution: Do Not Roll Around in Other People's Piss."

1
Captain Underpants | 27 April 2010 - 7:23am

I remember seeing Purple at Knebworth in '85.

The urinals were just immense thigh-high tanks. Filled with tepid wee. Which was, I suppose, pretty dilute given the amount of beer people were drinking. Anyway. You still wouldn't want to have been pushed into one of them. As one poor sod was. I wouldn't have wanted to sit next to him on the train. I bet he was glad when it rained later.

0
Lenny Law | 27 April 2010 - 12:47pm

A certain music venue in Glasgow...

...has the sink in the cubicle beside the toilet, but the hand-dryers are out in the main toilet, so you have to open the cubicle door with wet hands. This strikes me as being worse than not washing. They also do food...

0
stuartpwilson | 26 April 2010 - 4:42pm

Akin to those staff in bakeries and the like who

carefully put on their blue gloves to handle the food, then omit to remove them before handling the money.

1
stimpy | 26 April 2010 - 4:54pm

Hmm

Twin catflaps, you say. Not an option I had considered, but I appreciate your health and safety concerns. And you know what, I like your suggestion even more.

What with the Olympics just around the corner, just imagine how much better our chances of medal success will be in the gymnastics with all this daily rolling.

Definitely one of those win/win situations I keep hearing about. We will be a nation of germ free medal winning forward rollers.

0
Resting Place | 26 April 2010 - 4:44pm

Hear about the woman

who went to the butchers to order some cooked meat. When she saw the butcher handling the meat with his bare hands she shouted,"No no no! Use the serving tongs. Think of the germs"

The following week she returned to the butchers and he was happy to report he was now using the tongs on the cooked meat. She then enquired, "Why is there string sticking out of your fly?"

"Ah" said the butcher. "Extra hygiene. When I go for a wee I pull my willy out with the string so I don't have to touch it"

"But how do you put it back into your pants?"

"I use the tongs!"

Ta daa...

3
Beany | 26 April 2010 - 7:00pm

The late lamented Douglas Adams

nailed this one. In the book So Long and Thanks For All The Fish we are introduced to a character called Wonko The Sane, who reveals, in a conversation with the book's protagonist Arthur Dent, that he adopted his name after realising society had gone mad. For him the tipping point was picking up a packet of toothpicks in a restaurant and finding that they had instructions written on them.

0
illuminatus | 26 April 2010 - 8:20pm

On the other hand...

... if someone had stuck a sign on the dishwasher at work stating 'Don't use Fairy liquid' then it would probably still be working, the kitchen wouldn't have been flooded with bubbles and I wouldn't keep seeing a mental picture of the Rolling Stones in sailor suits!

2
BryanD | 26 April 2010 - 8:33pm

At my local swimming pool

there's a sign in the corridor leading to the changing rooms which says "this floor can be slippery at certain times". Obviously, every pavement outside doesn't need such warning, but who would suspect there may be water inside this building? It's a swimming pool, for god's sake.

0
Douglas | 26 April 2010 - 8:40pm

In this litigious age

unfortunately have to cover themselves in case some lemon trips over, and then tries to sue the council because there was no warning!

(Remember the MacDonalds boiling coffee saga?)

O/T I believe that most overseas companies, if sued in U.S. courts over accident compensation (particularly in less urban environments), routinely pay up. This is because the juries in these cases routinely find for the local party against the 'foreign' party.

0
Badlands | 26 April 2010 - 11:52pm

I heard recently

That there was more to the McDonald's Coffee case than meets the eye.

There had been similar incidents before, and food standards agency (US equivalent) had warned McDonalds about the design of their takeaway cups, given that they contained near-boiling liquid. But McDonald's ignored the warnings, and so when a case came up, the judge awarded damages at a punitive level, to "get their attention".

0
keefus | 27 April 2010 - 11:23am

I taught my kids all the

correct hand washing protocol and they understood why and carried it out to the letter...... then I took them to The Reading Festival. My God where do you even start? 20 bogs on a 40 ft tanker full of shit, piss and vomit and goodness knows what else left to fester and fill up for 4 days. Just breathing around it is impossible never mind anything else, people are in such a hurry to get in and get out that the walkways are drenched with old piss. Then they expect you to squirt some disinfectant soap on your hands when you leave that deals with all that. Where are the health and safety boys at festivals?

Oh we were all fine at the end by the way, no tummy bugs or anything, don't know what that tells us, maybe we were just lucky.

0
Dave Amitri | 26 April 2010 - 10:32pm

The instructions found

on a packet of cashews and The Word office door.

May contain nuts.

...I'll get my blazer.

0
Beany | 26 April 2010 - 10:55pm

It's the...(gulp!)...sarcasm

Home-made signs like "Your mother doesn't work here!" that festoon workplace kitchen areas make me wonder why we can't all just along, yeah?.

0
Austin | 27 April 2010 - 2:28am

washing hands

Was it Eamonn, in the podcast, who disparagingly referred to those who dont wash their hands as "walkers"?

Well with some of the seedy bars and clubs I've been to, the prospect of even touching the taps and sinks is enough to instead rely on "natural disinfectant"

0
Junior Wells | 27 April 2010 - 7:19am

Safety at work

0
Beany | 27 April 2010 - 10:24am

Anyone been to the Grindleford Station Cafe?

It's in the Peak District, long popular with climbers & walkers.

The signs there have become a local legend:

"This is not an office, if you want to use your mobile phone go outside"

"For Health and Safety reasons there is a ban on pushchairs, prams and irresponsible parents in this cafe"

"Private property not public toilets, thank you. 20p otherwise, or confrontation"

"To those who are concerned about nuts in our products - we are too nutty to know ourselves"

...and best of all
"We DO NOT serve mushrooms."
(Phil, the late lamented owner, had been known to throw out anyone presumptuous enough to ask for said fungi.)

0
keefus | 27 April 2010 - 11:37am
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