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Do you meet people who consistently use a word incorrectly? Even when told the true meaning.
Posted by Uncle Wheaty on 11 January 2010 - 6:05pm.
I work with a colleague who seems unable to correctly use the word "erstwhile" i.e. former.
She seems to get it confused with "esteemed" and has frequently introduced other people as an "erstwhile colleague" which has lead to a couple wondering when the friendship ended!
Any other examples from The Massive that have caused similar confusion?
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When I wor a lad....
....there was the word "substantial" (which is a measure of how much substance something has) and then there was "substantive", which I only ever came across during debates in the students union. But now I hear "substantive" being used all the time and it's impossible to tell whether it's being incorrectly used to mean substantial or in some different context. I still don't know what substantive means and looking in the dictionary hasn't made things an awful lot clearer. I suspect a lot of the people using it haven't looked.
Ahh, but can you substantiate that
suspicion?
"Substantive" = meaningful
much used by lawyers as in 'I await a substantive response, and not just some bloody useless holding letter'. We used to get paid by the word in the olden days.
Exponentially
is one of these.
People use it all of the time, saying something has 'increased exponentially' and I never quite know what they mean, although what they *seem* to mean is that something has simply increased.
As with the example above, I've looked it up and its meaning is still no clearer.
My understanding
is that if something increases exponentially, the rate at which it increases is *also* increasing over time.
Thus, if something is increasing steadily, e.g. 2, 4, 6, 8 - that's just plain old increasing.
If the rate also increases, e.g. 1, 4, 9, 16, 25 - then not only is the sequence increasing, but it's increasing more quickly over time, then it can be said to increase exponentially.
That's not a particularly rigorous definition, but it's by and large correct... I think.
Ah, thanks...
So if, say, drug use is 'increasing exponentially', then not only is it increasing, but it's increasing faster than it was?
Yep
That's right :-)
Cheers
I'm going to start using it right away.
In fact, my use of the word 'exponentially' will now be increasing… exponentially.
exponentially
Be careful - in no time every word you use will have to be "exponentially"
A boring explanation
Linear increases - the rate of incresea is constant, so a graph looks like a straight line : e.g. 2, 4, 6, 8 (the graph of y=2x in fact)
Exponential increases are, strctly speaking, based on powers: so, y=2^x (2 to the power x) would be 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 etc. This line would give a graph with the line shooting upwards very quickly.
There are other types of increase: polynomial - like y=x^2 (x squared) which give 1, 4, 9, 16, 25; logarithmic (y = log x) inter alia, but these are more useful for the scientists and mathematicans amongst us)
As an aside, one of my bugbears is when people talk about a building being 'razed to the ground' How else could it be razed?
That's the mathematically correct definition
but I assumed that it had adapted in common usage to just mean anything that increases faster than a linear increase (e.g. polynomials and indeed exponentials). If that isn't the case, then before using it, you'd have to do calculations first to make sure it was indeed increases exponentially rather than, say, polynomially.
One thing I never understood about Maths was...
why you had to assume something to then prove something else - didn't seem logical to me.
So the teacher would state that assuming x was a negative number then this proved a theorum.
My brain would tell me well let's not assume that and then what happens?
Explains why I only got an E grade at A level I guess!
I took great offence at imaginary numbers.
As I saw it, if the number was imaginary, then I was damned if someone was going to dictate to me how I imagined it.
Again, an E in pure maths followed.
"But Sir, WHY do I want to
"But Sir, WHY do I want to know the square root of minus one?" cue the end of A/O level maths for me
Billy Connolly
"What does A equal? Sorry I must have missed that lesson when we did the A times table. 1 A is A, 2 A's are A....fuck off!!"
Decimate is to reduce by one
Decimate is to reduce by one tenth. Common usage seems to mean reduction by a lot more than that.
Oh, and I was once reviewing a series of documents where someone had used demographic when what they meant was geographic.
Decimate
Last year, my MA teacher provided us with an A4 sheet printed on both sides of words he has seen/heard used incorrectly by newsreaders/reporters/writers etc.....
Decimate was there, and now I cringe everytime I see it used wrongly.
Used
wrong.
Ooh, look, a can of worms...
Interestingly...
...although 'decimate' does literally mean to reduce by one tenth, 'decimation' was a pretty horrendous punishment for Roman troops (esp. for cowardice, I think).
Basically, a group would be separated into groups of 10 and made to draw lots, with the 9 'winners' in each case being forced to beat the 'loser' to death! As this was a brutal and terrible thing to happen, 'decimation' came to have a wider meaning applied to anything similarly horrific.
"Quantum leap..."
...irritates me. In physics, it refers to energy level-shift of an electron within an atom, not an enormous, epoch-making change as the term is usually used to denote.
It also grates when people write 'lead' when they mean 'led'.
the Quantum leap thing
is shame as the idea that a small change can have big out come in the structure of atom say is useful rhetorical concept but I'm afraid the battles lost most people use it to mean a giant sudden change or break through so it looks like it mean that from now on.
Exactly
It's always used to mean 'enormous shift'. Grrr.
Significant Change
I've never had a problem with the common useage of "quantum shift". If you assume the common useage to mean "significant change" rather than "enormous shift" then there is no problem. Also, on a subatomic scale, the energies involved in quantum shifts are actually quite large.
step change
Means the same thing but does not sound as "sexy" as Quantum leap. Which is unfortunate for those of us irritated by the phrase.
It is one of those cases (like decimate and exponential) where there is a precise technical meaning that does not fit with the common usage.
Misuse of "sexy" and "passion"
You were wise enough to put it in quotes, Paul, but it does remind of the misuse of that word. At work I often hear people talking about "sexy bits of IT" and being "passionate about business change".
Fascinating topics though they are, I'd argue that anyone who finds IT sexy or gets passionate about business change has forgotten the true meanings of those words.
When wor a bit younger...
...I used to confuse 'condone' with 'condemn'. So I'd be talking about some horrific act of cruelty in the news and say that I fully condoned it.
Over to Bill Beaumont
If I had a quid for every time I've heard Bill Beaumont use the word "whereby" when he clearly meant "whereas," well, I'd have enough to buy a small round on the 22nd.
whereas
At least he had heard of the word. While I was at school, I once had a science assignment returned to me with the word 'whereas' underlined in red ink - underneath was written the comment "Don't make up words!" This is probably explained by the fact the school was in rural Norfolk.
Taught by the best.
During double French one afternoon a scuffle broke out between two school chums."Jake" our French master pulled the two miscreants apart and enquired as to the cause of the fracas."Please sir,he's got me fucking book,"was the response.Jake's replay,"It's not me boy,It's my.Now that's class.
Even now
As a bank manager my sister still says dustbinmen instead of dustmen.
BTW when did you last see a dustman carrying a dustbin? they won't even go up my road in this weather.
Same here. It looks like Winter 1979 all over again.
No bodies piled up yet though...
Then again....
...do you ever see them carrying any dust?
Only when a bin bag full of dust from the fire bursts on them.
worked a summer
on the bins and let me tell you,A Bin full of ash from a fire is F*****' heavy.
I never knew there was settled name for
refuse collectors ; dustbinmen or dustmen seem to work fine either way.Seems to be splitting hairs or is there a regional difference in usage.
The Dustbinmen
There was a Jack Rosenthal series shown 1968-70 called The Dustbinmen. Bryan Pringle starred. Made by Granada so dustbinmen might be a North West thing.
Hey Mam, its dustbinmen
was the opening cry. Intro was filmed on the Hurdsfield estate in Macclesfield, down the road from where I grew up. I loved it at the time. The series, that is, not the Hurdsfield estate which no one loved.
A bin full of ash, er...
Wasn't that Cornershop?
Who has a fire in the Summer?
Crescendo
Things don't "reach a crescendo"; the word means to gradually get louder, not the moment where it hits a peak. Small thing, but it does give me the squirts; a guy I used to work with (who claimed to be a musician) would make the mistake on a weekly basis...
Damn
good word though.
sam i think
Crescendo is in the process of changing it's meaning which happens all the time in english annoying but a natural thing.
Perhaps,
but I shall happily remain an old stick in the mud. I read a rant recently that contained the words, "ignorance is not linguistic shift". I couldn't help but feel just a little less alone.
And don't get me started on "irony". Pedants Corner, anyone?
You mean...
...Pedants' Corner, surely?
Catch up, Pocket.
It has been called The Corner Wherein Those Who Derive Pleasure From Pedantry May Be Found for some time after, elsewhere on t'interweb, a lengthy argument regarding the positioning of the apostrophe and the precise meaning of "pedant".
Lynn Truss, however, goes for your version.
I see...
I'm a traditionalist, however. Died-in-the-wool, immovable obelisk (not obelix!) on this one.
Ummm...
Died? Or dyed?
Sorry
Oh.
Ouch. Petard well and truly hoisted.
Not unless you have been suffocated by a woolen blanket...
in a previous life obviously!
We have...
...woollen where I come from. What is this 'woolen' of which you speak? www.ewm.co.uk
From the country that has trolley buses!
Your petard was hoisted?
But a petard is a bomb, it's what does the hoisting. ;)
I...
...know.
Confused,
I thought petard was what you do with a frail who likes it a bit rough.
The Eye settled on 'Pedantry Corner'
some time ago
coopting words into an adjectival use is kosher, surely?
pedants, as an adjective = pedants corner (with no need for an apostrophe anywhere)
same as Hibs captain, or Scotland manager, or Word editor ... it just looks a bit weird when the adjective has an 's' on the end ...
Erstwhile can also mean
Sometime.
Perhaps she means it this way?
My own pet linguistic faux pas
one that is committed by cultural critics all the time especially music critics (even round here) is the the interchangeable use of Coruscate & Excoriate.
But I fear this too is a lost cause much like the classic use of "pacific" when people mean "specific".
Aaaargh!
I was reading down the posts, wondering if the 'specific'/ 'pacific' one would come up, or whether it was solely a woman I once worked with that had this irritating tendency.
She used to say it all the time, even extending the word into 'pacifically' when she meant 'specifically'. It got so bad that you couldn't actually listen to what she was saying - all you did was wait, cringing, for the moment when she misused 'pacific'.
So, ironically, there was no peace to be had.
Pacifically speaking...
I have a friend who absolutely hates this. It drives he so mad I've heard a rumour that when he hears it he storms off raging "it's specifically!"
I'm meeting him on Saturday to pacifically discuss the matter. I'll raise it then!
For some bizarre reason my mum has trouble with 'as' and 'has'. Goodness knows why!
I try not to be a language snob, but...*
"pacifically," used in this wrong sense, is a word which generally causes me to value everything else that person is saying just a bit less. When I worked in a law firm, I had a small say in which of our summer placement students would be offered training contracts. There was one who was nixed partly for her repeated use of that "s" word.
* By the way, Fritz Perls said something very wise about the word "but" - "everything before 'but' is bullshit."
Giggity
I have a friend who constantly uses the word 'quagmire', when he means 'quandary'.
ie - 'Bit of a quagmire. Should I go out or stop in and save money for my holidays'
Bit of a cockup on the linguistic front
A colleague wanted to thank me for something I'd done for her and she said she would be 'internally grateful'.
Taxi for Mr. Freud
Have you considered the possibility she may fancy you?
Maybe
She was just REALLY grateful
Which reminds me...
...of the time that a friend of my better half, during a long and ill-informed haver about global warming, continually referred to 'climactic change'.
'pacific' instead of 'specific'
seems strangely common. Why?
Poor enunciation probably
I imagine.
...
The Pacific Ocean is not specifically pacific,
Indeed most oceans aren't
Some firths are quite rough, where navigation is tough,
Also right bastard seas like the Barents.
/coat
Compliment/Complement
I used to run an IT Support team and tasked several of them to write some documentation explaining how the different applications ought to work together.
They all submitted drafts on their various sections detailing how their application 'complimented' the others.
I sent them all corrections including a change to the word 'complemented'. This puzzled the lot of my little gang of Einsteins who all sent back further comments that I'd 'corrected my draft wrong' In the end I had to explain the difference to them. After which one hair-gelled genius piped up, 'But why 'as that word got two diff'rent spellin's?'
Disingenuous
a business associate uses this quite often - and bizarrely - uses it quite incorrectly every time.
He uses it to mean the opposite of what it actually does. It's very odd.
By The way
For those interested in this sort of thing - and I know I am, may I recommend a book? Kingsley Amis'The King's English was popped into me stocking by the GLW this Christmas and is a witty, erudite joy from soup to nuts.
Eek!
Lots of fuming and frothing about the use of the phrase 'eke out' if it's the one of his I remember. And he makes a good case for why caring about these things is important.
Hello, I'm Steve and I pronounce something wrongly
I was openly mocked the other day for pronouncing 'moustache' as 'mustosh' which I've done, i think, forever. I kind of know how it 'should' be pronounced ('tache and all that) and I wonder if it's a regional thing as I don't have an accent to speak of(I grew up in South Warks).
Does anybody else suffer this terrible affection? (arf! arf!)
umvelope
I don't care how it's spelled. That's how it's pronounced.
Maybe an age thing?
I remember my parents saying "mustosh", but don't hear it so often now. In English, the "how it's spelled (or 'spelt'? aargh!)" principle isn't a reliable one.
The appeal of the more modern "mustahsh" is that it enables me to take the piss out of people sporting pathetic new facial growth by saying "I mustahsh you a question".
An age thing?!
Just what are you suggesting Mr Tiler?
Or Ms Tiler, obviously
:-)
Oops
By "an age thing" I just meant the difference between people who are dead young and people who are dead, dead young.
Mustosh
Mustosh was the favoured way back in the day, when we also used to say "sideboards" instead of "sideburns", nothing to do with item of furniture in the parlour, lounge, sitting room, such as a settee, sofa, couch....oh this could go on a bit...
An Uncle of mine
(whose very much on the dead side of dead young) used to refer to sideboards/burns as 'bugger's grips'. It was political incorrectness gone mad.
Same here
I also had an uncle that called them "bugger grips". The thing is, he had sideburns himself.
Did Steve's uncle and Austin's uncle maybe know each other?
It's an easy conclusion to draw when two people use the same very distinctive expression. And there, I think, the speculation should end...
If they did ...
...they carried the secret to the grave, as my Uncle is also no longer with us. I very much doubt it, though.
My Uncle never actually sported a pair
but I'd have thought that dual grippage would put a bit of strain on at least one, erm, participant's arms anyway. Thanks for putting that image in my mind though Lucky.
Stephen Fry....
.....also uses the term "bugger's grips" for sideburns. I'm sure I read in one of his books that it was the term used by his mother.
My Missus
Pronounces tongue as "tong". I say "tung". Both of each think each other sounds funny, so I think we're about even.
Argh! "Texes"
I seem to be in a minority of one, but since the world domination of mobile phones EVERYONE AROUND ME seems to mispronounce the following:
A "text" is a "tex"
So "texting" becomes "texing"
And (most infuriatingly) "texts" are known as "texes".
I know I know, as society develops and new behavioural norms take shape it is unhelpful to see language as a static entity and new word forms and vocabulary must be allowed to emerge naturally from common linguistic usage etc etc etc BUT IT STILL GETS MY GOAT.
Phew, glad to get that off my chest.
You've just reminded me...
that most people don't say "asterisk" for a *.
They say "Asterix"!
this is especially galling
(thengyew)
That...
REALLY does my f***** (5 asterisks) head in...
Make that a minority of two, Stephen
Even worse is "I tex him yesterday." No you didn't: you sent him a text yesterday.
I could just about let them get away with "I texted him yesterday", but "I tex him"... GAAGGHH.
And we've dealt with "Arks" for "Ask" somewhere on the blog before haven't we...?
In all seriousness
Can you think of another word that has been around for only a decade or so (the verb 'text') that has already become its own past participle, mutating from the previous 'texted'? Now that's rapid linguistic change for you.
Argh!
No, you're in a minority of at least two.
"Hi this is Fern / Reggie / Vernon...etc. Send your texes in...."
Three
OK - a minority of three!
David Hepworth, I hope you're ashamed of yourself
I can't believe it...
Just got round to listening to the last-but-one podcast, and guess what? David Hepworth is talking about how Fraser "texed" him from the Himalayas... sigh...
Literally
As I understand it, if canines and felines fell from the sky, you would be entitled to say that "It was literally raining cats and dogs". i.e. if something actually happened that would never normally happen.
But I keep hearing people saying things like "I was literally bored to death", "I literally can't stand him", "it was literally the worst film I've ever seen".
ARRGGHHHH. Makes me cringe.
It was raining 1970s Japanese car parts...
"It was raining Datsun cogs"
(coat)
well, you made me smile
so I award you five points.
Agreement here, Hannah..
some people do actually know how to use the word properly but the vast majority now think it's some kind of catch-all adverb of opinion, and in so doing are replacing frankly, actually, in fact, basically and the rest.
And we think the Americans are crap for their misunderstanding of the wonderful presenly.
Presently, obviously..
whew..
yep
I think it's the fact that often, as you've said, used when the person means "figuratively" - ie the exact opposite.
Anyone wishing to hear the word "literally" misused somewhere in the region of 100 times in 2 hours can listen to Radio Nottingham's Forest commentary this afternoon, where John McGovern (*touches forelock*) will doubtless be putting in his usual sterling stint of "literally" abuse (and fine football observation).
More literally annoying stuff
My absolute favourite has to be when a commentator said, during the 1990 World Cup in Italy, that it was so hot, the England players were literally sweating their eyes out. How charming.
More literally annoying stuff
Yes, pacifically their eyes! I arks you!
Traitorous
My colleague at work described the ice and snow as 'traitorous' the other day. Gave me a fit of the giggles.
Another colleague and I have been collecting office based nonsense phrases for a while now. My absolute favourite was when a senior colleague described her position as being 'in a sticky boat' - a wonderful but meaningless combination of 'on a sticky wicket' and something else we couldn't quite work out ('in a boat without a paddle' maybe?)
Fearne Cotton's use of the word 'amazing'...
which invariably describes something that is utter shit.
What about famous people's names?
Maybe stretching the topic a bit, but I can't resist sharing the name a friend of mine struggled to remember. She has a habit of mixing up the names of famous people, and was trying to think of the name of... you know, that scientist guy... the one in the wheelchair....?
"Stevie B Hawkins"
I can't bear it...
When people say Cliff Richards. Or Keith Richard.
Yeah
But he did used to be called Keith Richard, to be fair. In the early days.
The early days
Until about 1975 wasn't it? I remember him being Richard at the time of 'Exile'
My dad
Now long since deceased once referred to "Rod Hull and Ostrich"...
Tea computer interaction
You have just caused me to snort tea over my computer. Not a bad thing, really.
Can I just, for once, do a genuine
LOL! :-)
My mum
always confuses Alan Rickman with Rick Wakeman.
And, on one special occasion, "Rick Mansworth".
Anythink
instead of Anything. Why?
Bloody hell where do I start?
Slither. "I had a slither of cake..". It's SLIVER. You see and hear it all the time. Even in decent newspapers.
Annoying Pompeyism.. Reach. Which people use when they mean "retch". I've given up correcting people on that one. It might be a quirk of local pronunciation.
Sea Bass. OK, it's not a mispronunciation, it's a tautology. But it still gets on my tits. In the UK, the bass Dicentrarchus Labrax is a sea fish. You don't get American freshwater large and small mouth bass over here. The freshwater fish of the bass family you do catch here are zander and perch. Which are called zander and perch. It's bass.
It is like those people who confuse single celled animals...
Since when has an amoeba ever looked like a Paramecium - bastards :-)
Are you by any chance
a consultant on the excellent 'Big Bang Theory'? If not, why not?
Should of..
instead of "should have". Fucking dullards.
Re: Should of..
Drummed into me in, I think, the first week of my first year at (wait for it) Grammar School. Stuck with me, but apparently nobody else.
Should of
OMG!!! With you on this one. Started seeing it written down recently too. In newspapers. Inexcusable.
All that Glitters is not gold
instead of ...Glisters is not gold.
Very annoying as almost everyone says Glitters.
never seen the problem with this one
it's miss-quotation at worst. The meaning isn't lost.
People on this thread would no doubt love to meet Miss Quotation
I agree.
But I'm a very sad little man and this makes me feel superior.
But isn't it Dryden?
or another poet of about the same period who actually wrote
"all that glitters is not gold"
(Shakespeare did write glisters, I accept)
Infer and Imply
Are not synonyms
Please, please learn the difference.
Also there's no "x" in espresso.
I
was talking to an American gentleman the other evening, who used the word "implify" twice - "He was implifying that so-and-so..."
Meanwhile, in my previous life, working in the media in Dubai, the commonplace usage of 'kindly' always got my goat - ie., "Kindly revert to us at earliest", "Kindly read this press release and print it soonest in your esteemed publication" (true!) or "kindly be refraining from smoking on the front path" etc.
Perhaps I am naturally unkindly?
It's aitch
not haitch. H.
H
I've been trying to tell my son this for weeks. I don't think his teacher will take it well.
Actually ...
It's 'aitch' if you are Protestant, and 'haitch' if you're Catholic. I thought everybody knew that. Well, everybody over here. But anyway we've moved on now, so it no longer matters, and please send more money.
And...
Indoors = 'floor'.
Outdoors = 'ground'.
I don't understand this
one.
I'll explain
When you're outdoors, at the trolley bus stand, for example, and you maybe drop something - a handkerchief perhaps, or a mitten - and a kindly local working soul taps you on the shoulder and says, 'Scuse I, guv'nah; ye've dropped summink on the floor, you 'ave.'
No. 'You've dropped summink on the graaahnd.' Innit? Stands to reason, etc.
A trolley bus?
What are they.
Clearly a new London based form of transport for mitten wearing types I guess.
Or a meringue?
No,
you're right enough.
What about if you're in an underground tunnel?
.
There is a difference here between examples
where people make a mistake and ones where they mispronounce the correct word. I don't mind too much the latter particularly in local dialects even if they are a bit grating at times. Working with kids in south London you get used to them torturing the language with their "Spoy-dars" for "spiders" or "grrrls" and "boyze". With my short northern vowels I've been mistaken for everything from a American to an Aussie (they seemingly don't watch Emmerdale in Catford). My toes did curl recently when I heard ASDA pluralised as in "I was in Asdas right and diss boye.." it just seemed needless somehow.
My wife's family..
...are all 'proper' East End, 'like'. Asda's is where her nan goes shopping. Unless she wants something a bit special then she goes to Marks's.
In Liverpool
Everyone seems to say "The Asda".
(And isn't the 's' on the end of a store's name a possessive rather than a pluralisation? Lots of folk refer to Tesco's, when the company is just called Tesco. "I'm nipping to Tesco's. Do you want anything?")
A pack of Ginger Nuts
and 20 Bensons please, David.
No worries
No worries Captain. Be back around 10.30.
Yes...
...and some companies are guilty of deliberately dropping the possessive from their names. Barclays is one; Morrisons another.
Sainsbury's has, thus far, resisted.
In Wakefield as well!
It strikes me as very peculiar that people refer to it as "The Asda".It's very strange how language can change over relatively short distances.
In Hull for example we have "della" somebody who is stupid, "ten-foot" the road area at the rear and between terraced housing and "pattie" a fried potato and sage delicacy from the fish and chip shop. In Wakefield, they call what we in Hull would know as "scraps" in the fish and chip shop, "bits".
just down the road in Barnsley
"scraps" were "scraps" although a "10 foot" would most likely be a "ginnel" or possibly a "snicket". Those patties sound good is it mashed potato and sage fried like a fish cake or is it like a "scallop" which is a slice (it comes the from escalope) of potato in batter and then fried?
Pattie
If you mention patties most people outside of Hull say that's what they call a fishcake but it is actually mashed potato and sage fried in batter and slightly larger than a fishcake. For some unknown reason they are unique to Hull and I've never come across them anywhere else in the UK. The taste can vary in each fish and chip shop so recipes vary.
We've got them here
Savoury - £1.10
Where
would that be then?
I can't be too pacific,
but more or less opposite yerself.
Would that be as in
I'm goin' robbin' in The Asda, la' ?
No
But thanks for your amusing stereotype.
Touchy...
that famous Scouse sense of humour seems to have deserted you.
I'm not a Scouser
but my kids are.
I don't see what's funny about them lazily being branded thieves because of where they happen to have been born and how they talk.
Touchy? Maybe.
Thasda
Where I come from. Don't care what you think about that.
Touche. 8-}
Shouldn't that be..
Branded AS thieves?
Always annoys me when people miss that out.
Now. Where were we? Where's some Londoners we can offend by stereotyping their offspring as thieving robbing organised crime Ron and Reggie-type gets as well? "Dinchoo kill my bruvvah? Naah.. must've been me. Keep it daahn.. top jolly from ver Ludgate factory's been puttin' aht frightners over a load o' tom bein' fenced off Up West by Turkish Billy.. Filf's all over it.. You done your history homework? You going to Tilly's birthday party? Mummy says we're going to Mustique this summer.. Won't that be fab?"
'that famous Scouse sense of humour'
Is another lazy stereotype. No more, or less funny than anywhere else.
I would post a withering reply
but I'm just too lazy.
Therefore
I would guess that you are from Norwich.
Lazy Bastards.
No
but if I was, I would have smiled at that amusing riposte.
I'm actually a tight-fisted, dour Yorkshireman who smells of fish.
You're not from...
...Whitby as well, are you?
anyway, what's so bad about short arms and deep pockets?
ANYWAY!
Glasgow people (an I am one) always add the possessive 's', so it's as if Lidl is run by a Mr Lidl out back. The worst/finest example of this is the noted Tonic water producers Schwepses, usually added to Shmirnoaf's vodka for a V & T.
All Footie Commentators...
It,s Birmingham City..not Birminum !!
Milan?
Or Meeelan? Is this wrong? Sounds it.
According to Shakespeare...
it's Milan. Mind you, that's only to fit in with the scansion.
According to Shakespeare...
Wronged is wrong-ed, I think. The wrong-ed Duke of Mil-an.
Mind you, is wronged wrong-ed? Like learned is learn-ed? (See Homer Simpson thread...)
I love that line - great play too. My absolute favourite.
Prospero:
Our revels now are ended. These our actors,
As I foretold you, were all spirits, and
Are melted into air, into thin air:
And like the baseless fabric of this vision,
The cloud-capp'd tow'rs, the gorgeous palaces,
The solemn temples, the great globe itself,
Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve,
And, like this insubstantial pageant faded,
Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep.
Post-modern or what? Beautiful. The last two lines always get me.
The only Shakespeare I ever did was
at secondary school. The Tempest. Completely beyond my comprehension, as is the above.
Anyway, I thought prezbo taught maths?
"I thought prezbo taught maths?"
Very good!
This prezbo is a renaissance man!!
Wronged in Shakespeare
Pronunciation depends entirely on the meter of the line that it's in. It could be either.
Is learned not the verb, and
Is learned not the verb, and learn-ed the adjective?
Learned
Yes. Are we still talking about Shakespeare? My point isn't about linguistic accuracy. It's about metre. For example, there's the use of the word 'opportune' by Florizel in The Winter's Tale. We all know how that word is pronounced. But, for the metre to work in that particular line, it needs to be pronounced opPORTune. So it depends on the line.
Meelan
The club was founded by British expats as the Milan Cricket and Football Club. So the Italians pronounce it as close as they can to the English way - Meelan. The city is, after all, actually called Milano.
And they don't say Inter Milan either - it's just Inter.
Italians say 'Meelan'...
as the letter i in Italian is generally pronounced like the i in 'police'.
I suppose it comes down to whether you use the English pronunciation of foreign place names or not.
It's also it's
Not it,s.
That annoys me as well.
Too much information
A while ago, I described a work-related document as having too much information. A colleague was amused by this and nodded knowingly -"yes, wayy too much information!", as if I had just shared some detail about my anal hairs.
Not generally that important, or even annoying
but inter and intra are commonly misused. Of course, as a lawyer (by training, at least) I am always very careful to use the right one!
Verbiage
I constantly get in arguments when people use the word incorrectly...
How about this one...
irregardless.
Formidable
In English, the stress is on the first syllable. Not on the fucking second one. Basil Fawlty is allowed to mispronounce it to try and impress a French woman. The rest of us have no excuse.
Amazing,
Fantastic,sublime,genius,ect when It's really rather average.
Using 'ect' instead of 'etc.'
Grrrrr...
... as any fule kno
... as any fule kno
Oh,
and ain't instead of isn't.
Paninis...
I must stop going on about this.
Yes
These pedant threads are throwing up the same old neuroses, aren't they? I have to mentally check to see if I've ranted on something before.
I used to work in a bank
and one of the cashiers didn't know the difference between the word "denomination" and "domination". It provided some confusion from customers when they took cash out and she asked, "what domination would you like?"
Oh, and the standard your/you're one; the worst offender I know for this one is, worryingly, my Mum.
If I was offered domination in my local bank...
then I might go in more regularly instead of avoiding it like the plague.
You say that
but if you'd have seen the cashier I was referring to, you'd have stayed well away...
Hanging's too good for...
...anyone who isn't a seismologist using the word epicentre.
...anyone who isn't a mathematician using the word parameter.
Exception please?
I'm a programmer. I use parameters every day. Some people call them arguments, but it's not worth fighting over.
And, As Alexi Sayle pointed out
...anyone who uses the word "workshop" who doesn't actually use hand tools is a twat.
Although if this was to occur
hopefully the person involved would have been hanged and not hung.
Well hanged...
...doesn't sound right.
Eggcorns
I'm sure someone's mentioned this on a thread somewhere before, but there are people who collect these things.
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/
I particularly liked "curled up in the feeble position".
You've got me started...
"Without further adieu" is something I've heard a couple of people saying regularly, on both occasions with a smug "aren't I eloquent?" look on their faces, which makes it so much more irritating
"nucular energy" is commonly heard, the worst case being when a BBC correspondent used this throughout a feature on that very topic, seriously undermining his credibility on the matter
"trowma" for "trauma" is a classic case of using the pronunciation of the language from which the word was derived - German in this case - presumably to make oneself sound more sophisticated. The correct foreign pronuncation is appropriate if you're using a foreign word which hasn't made it to English yet, my favourite being "zusammengehörigkeit" - the feeling of belonging together. But once a word is in the English language, sorry but we're stuck with the more mundane-sounding English pronunciation.
"begging the question" is a term in formal logic where an argument is proven using a premise which is based on the argument itself, as in the statement "Opium induces sleep because it has a soporific quality". It is almost always used wrongly to mean "raising the question"
And the misuse of "quite literally" to mean exactly the opposite quite literally gets on my tits. Except of course that it doesn't - only figuratively.
Don't think
I've ever heard anyone in the media pronounce "new clear" properly.
which begs the question...
took me ages to work out the difference between begging the question (as you wrote) and "X begs the question - why...?". I used to get it wrong all the time. (probably still do).
On the subject of foreign words...
Where do you stand on the pronunciation of croissant?
I insist on pronouncing it cross-ont, whereas several of my friends favour a french-accented cwass-on. Am I right? I hope so.
Mine's a cwass-on
for what it's worth
I'll have a cwass-on too, please
It doesn't feel to me like a word that has been absorbed into English yet, so it still gets its native pronunciation. And I still call a Polo a "follxvahgen".
While we're on the subject
Is it latte (as in cat) or lartay (as in car). I am working in a law form and all these young trainee lawyers coma into the caff and demand "Can I get a lartey". Rong, surely. (Don't get me started on "can I get").
Latte, schmatte
The term is 'white coffee'.
Intriguing one, like Paasta
The latte (as in cat) or lartay (as in car) one is similar to the one about pasta (as in masticate) or paasta (as in faster) and seems to the relate to the difference how the British and Americans believe Italian words should be pronounced.
My Italian isn't great but I believe the 'a' in those words is pronounced short (as in cat). Can anyone clarify that? If I'm correct, the British have it right, and the Americans have it wrong, which is surprising since I'm sure Americans get plenty of opportunities to hear people of Italian descent talking about milky coffee.
eh? a?
Doesn't the 'a' in 'faster' sound the same as the 'a' in 'masticate'...? It does in our house!
And indeed
in mine
Not mine...
I've always said "farster".
But then again, I used to read travel bulletins, years back. One day I got a very grumpy message from BBC Radio Sheffield saying "There's no arse in Doncaster!"
My fear in writing that post has been realised
This was the fear that the way I chose to spell words to indicate how they are pronounced would fail due to the way those spellings are pronounced in different parts of the UK.
For example, here in Scotland "farster" doesn't work as a way of showing how something is pronounced, because we'd pronounce the 'r'. Etc, etc.
I hope you all know what I meant, because, I draw the line at doing it the proper way: Using phonetic symbols like /f'ɑːstəʳ for 'faster'.
One of the things English misses is
the use of accents / diacritical marks.
It would solve no end of trouble in English if we just had an accent to mark where the stressed syallble in a word was, like in lamentable (first syllable) or controversy (I'd go for first again), to choose two widely notorious examples.
I suppose that's easier in languages with more regularised spelling and orthology such as Spanish or even Greek or Japanese (in all of which I have but little experience).
All the weirder when you consider that the commonest sound in English doesn't even have a specific letter*!
* For those wondering - the schwa, which manifests itself as the 'uh' sound you hear as the a in 'alone' or 'about' - most people don't pronounce the first letter as the short 'a' sound at all
Italians pronunce..
the 'a' in latte as in 'cat'. It's a shortened vowel as there is a double consonant afterwards... so it's 'lat-te'.
And while we're on the subject of coffee (one of my pet topics), can I express my annoyance at the regularity with which I hear 'expresso' rather than 'espresso'. Grrrrr.
Trauma...
...isn't German. It's the Greek word for a wound.
Bang to rights, thanks, Inky
So when people say "trowmatic" do they think they are cleverly using the German pronunciation as in Traum, a dream, or are is that the correct Greek pronunciation?
Either way, I'd still consider it wrong, as the pronunciation of the English word is "trawmatic".
I can't think...
...of any word in English where the letters 'au' aren't pronounced 'or'.
My grumble about trauma is that it has become practically meaningless. I've heard it used to describe injuries, both mental and physical, ranging from the most trivial to the most severe, and traumatic seems to mean anything from 'mildly annoying' to 'absolutely devastating'.
It's a word that needs a holiday.
I'd miss it
And then I could claim I'm suffering from post-traumatic stress
I can. Gauge isn't pronounced "gorge"
But it isn't pronounced 'gouge' either
Thanks...
...Uncle Wheaty.
Apart from words from other languages, like chauffeur, I've thought of a couple more exceptions: cauliflower and draught. Any more?
'au' aren't pronounced 'or'
Perhaps it could go to Ostralia or Ostria?
Isn't it odd...
...that Australia and Austria are both named after points of the compass, but different ones?
"Begging the question"
I was going to bring up "begging the question" but I thought it would be too pedantic!
But since you've brought it up I'll also give you another couple of my pet hates. People seem to use these two without actually thinking about what they are trying to say (try it: the next time someone uses one of these phrases stop them and ask them what they actually mean. I bet they can't tell you):
- "the exception that proves the rule"
- "character development"
"It's too cold to snow"
I believe that "the exception that proves the rule" cannot be challenged in terms of the number of levels at which only six words can be utter nonsense. The worrying thing is that you hear this used to justify important decisions by people in responsible positions. I once heard a team leader trying to persuade his colleague not to go on strike by saying "Look, you're ok: Your wife's getting a 5% rise and your getting 5%, so that's 10%."
In a lesser league is one we've heard a lot of recently:
"It's too cold to snow"
I've taken to challenging people on this, asking them if they think Antarctica is a warm place. I must be real fun to chat with eh?
It actually doesn't snow that much in Antartica
It is the driest continent on Earth.
This is the kind of properly-informed input...
...that's killing off-the-top-of-the-head blogging!
Yeah, but thanks for pointing it out. Would by glib put-down work if I substituted Greenland for Antartica?
Will I be accused of tit-for-tatting if I mention the spelling of "Antarctica"?
Touché
Your point is valid as it is, of course, since it does actually snow a little in AntarCtica, and it is bloody cold there.
As I understand it, colder weather makes it less likely that there'll be snow, as colder air can hold less moisture. However, it cannot technically be too cold to snow at all.
I might be able to help
I think the problem with this much-misunderstood phrase is down to the word "prove", which is used here in its now virtually obsolete meaning of "test". Read in that light, the phrase seems less odd.
Ah so it was once correct
At least it started off in a well-intentioned way. But you do, don't you, hear people using it the wrong way, i.e.
A: I've said that X always happens
B: Yes but the other day the opposite of X happened
A: That's the exception that proves the rule.
And thus, 'cleverly', A uses the observation of the rule being wrong to argue that it is a valid rule.
Eponymous
Eponymous is the most misused word in music publications, when used to mean self-titled. The correct word is homonymous.
Pakistan-pronunication of
Short "a". It's not Parkistarn in the same way that it is not Arfgharnistarn.
The two Pakistanis I know both pronounce it
'Barkistarn'
Yes
the closest English pronunciation is Park-iss-tarn.
Urdu/Punjabi native speakers or others from the Indian subcontinent render it closer to Puck-isth-aahn - stressed towards last syllable.
However, I did think it slightly weird for a person of Anglophone descent to be didactic about how to say foreign place names in the first place. How you render "Pakistan" is likely to depend on where you're from in the Britsh Isles rather than how it's "supposed" to be pronounced. So having said that - I'm not sure we should worry too much about how we pronounce foreign place names.
And I say that as one of those bleedin foreign types - kno' wot I mean yeah? If I went raahnd sayin' bleedin' Firenze or Milano you'd fink I was a right bleedin' ponce yeah?
Goodness gracious me
If I may point you in the direction of the door...
That's poppycock, Richie. Anyone who is from Pakistan will pronounce it the way you claim is wrong, ie with a long "a" at the start. Plenty of people of Pakistani (or partly) extraction will also pronounce it that way. Are we wrong?
OK
Point taken. But I asked my mate Arif ages ago and he said it's a short a. And he went to Oxford, you know. Hey ho. Like bath and barth I suppose. One is something you wash in and the other one is a city in the West Country...but that's a whole new argument based on regional pronunciation.
I hate the
'Back' button sometimes.
Barth
is what people from Surrey who have moved there call it. In zummerzet and points western it's called Bath, with the shortest a in the book.
Ulp...
Born and bred in darkest zummerzet, always pronounced it Barth (lived there for 10 years, too) - I think I must be a bit of a posho. Of course, true Bathonians pronounce it 'Aquae Sulis'.
Then I's moved to Brissle. They pronounce it "Baaath", and typically prefix it with a choice expletive, as you'll hear should you go to the Rec and Bristol are playing.
Affect/Effect
I've even seen both used incorrectly in the same paragraph.
Poignant...
is quite often used instead of pertinent by my manager.
Burying the hatchet....
It always grates when I hear someone who wants to "axe" a question - although I realise that has now seeped deeply into current linguistic usage for the younger generation. Still sends a shudder up my spine.
Good to see "pacifically" featuring heavily here too. I also had a friend who consistently used it.
She was a bit of a serial malaprop though. She did her lower back in and saw her osteopath about it. She then went around for days telling people that the she has seen the doctor and he had spent the session manipulating her scrotum because it was all out of place.
Out of place indeed. When I told her that it was almost certainly her SACRUM which was misaligned she simply wouldn't believe it wasn't her scrotum. Had to resort to a concise OED to convince her. It was at that point she confessed that she'd talked about it at length to the vicar and his wife about it that morning!
"Axe" is quite a common
"Axe" is quite a common pronunciation in Jamaica and other parts of the Caribbean. I presume that is where it originated before being picked up by the yoof.
It features heavily in
It features heavily in ebonics, although I'm not sure of its origin.
A supervisor I worked with used it frequently, raising my ire on many occasions.
And one that drives me up the wall, which may just be particular to round here: "I could care less". No, buffoon, you mean you couldN'T care less.
An anecdote
We once had a secretary who was very, very good but could not get to grips with the correct use of the word 'whom', despite her boss explaining in some detail many, many times.
One day he told her to send some papers across to another firm and she asked "Who to?". Fixed by his steely glare and raised eyebrow she hesitated and then said "Sorry! I mean, who toom?"
"Who toom" is still in regular use in our office.
I had a client
...a senior guy, whose secretary sent me an email confirming "your meeting's have been arranged". I discovered over time that this was not a one off slip....
Enervate
is a word routinely misused by journalists, usually in live reviews of bands.
Ethniticity
Every 3 months I have to produce a report at work which includes details of ethnic origin for people I have had contact with. My colleague who does this with me always calls it ethniticity and seems to have many questions to ask about this particular part of the analysis, much to my irritation.
Mispronounced words!
I had a colleague who ran through a presentation with me outlining "our prestigious new offices in Salford Quays" which he pronounced as "kways". I pointed this mispronunciation out to him only for him to reply "Shit! I've presented this to nearly 100 people and nobody has told me".
This is the same guy who "wears his heart on his shoulder".
Haha, poor bloke
I was talking about baby names with my mate and he told me his favourite girls name was Siobhan, only he pronounced it see-oh-ban. When I pointed out the correct pronunciation he was gutted.
That sounds like
That sounds like the - probably apocryphal - story of the Scouse couple whose son was called "Gooey", spelled Guy...
funny I didn't know how
to say Siobhan for a long while so made the above mistake and my friend intervewed the mother who called her kid Gooey but spelt it Guy.
Another one that confused me was "Arkansas" I heard about the "Arken-sall chugga bug " in wacky races and of Kansas but didn't make the link between the two for quite a while.
Slighty off topic
I used to work with a stunningly beautiful and very polite Jamaican girl. We got on famously even though for the first week I knew her I thought she was called Pat. Pat Rice.
She took all that time to pluck up the courage to tell me that she was actually called Patrice.
I wanted to name our first daughter 'Shuvaun'
but pronounced "See-ob-han'
Celts - help me understand the way certain letters are said
A friend of mine was considering calling his first born "Niamh" apparently pronounced as "Neeve" in most parts of the world.
Two friends asked why they were calling their child "Nim".
I also suffer from this lack of knowledge on Celtic based names e.g. I have recently worked with a chap called Ruari who introduced himsuelf as "Rory". I wou;d have called him "Roo-ari" but let him take the lead!
Any guidance will be appreciated.
I am not a Celt, but
I find that understanding this stuff is greatly ameliorated by the consumption of at least seven pints of Guiness.
I am..
Neeve is right, but pronunciations vary slightly, giving it a Liam-like diphthong for many speakers.
Rory is the English version of the Gaelic Ruari, pronounced as written, so Roo-are-ee. He was being nice to you.
Knock knock!
Who's there?
Siobhan.
Siobhan who?
Siobhan your knickers. My Dad's coming!
This site seems specifically designed to address your problem
http://www.babynamesofireland.com/pages/girl-names-a-c.html
I used to get weary
of hearing a colleague saying he was weary of doing something when he meant wary.
WOW:
Often used by those appearing in property porn to describe feelings of surprise, delight, despair, concern, happiness, indifference, unhappiness or scorn, and is ascribed to buildings which are as likely to be too far below their price range as they are too far above, and as ugly as they are er...wowsome.
Every use of "wow" can be deemed incorrect on the grounds that the word itself has been rendered sh*te by these venal, ugg-boot wearing, publicity-addicted Kevin McCloud wannabes.
But whenever Kate Bush says it, it is amazing!
And, let's not forget...
unbelievable.
I really hate it when *everyone* calls me a twat.
I'm actually a c*nt.
Idiots.
At least you have insight :-)
Dyslexic
My poor GLW suffers from this condition. However when she tries to explain it she always insists she is dyslepsic.
Paradigm shift
was used at work yesterday by a boss to describe the installation of new printers/copiers.
Charles Darwin publishing The Evolution of Species was a paradigm shift. I’m not sure new office hardware is on the same level…
I used to sit within earshot
I used to sit within earshot of a young and enthusiastic sales rep whose mouth ran considerably faster than his brain. He didn't so much misuse words as aim for them and fall short.
One of the first times I met him he told be he'd been "running around all day like a blue-arsed chicken."
Over the years I built up a list of his greatest hits. Which I've lost. But I remember these:
I can only give you a ballpoint figure
Her mother died and she's still in grievance
One thing you can't do in business is take your foot off the radar
There's no point us running round all milli-vanilli
My new car's got all the dobbins
but "There's no point us running round all milli-vanilli"
is excellent sort of limp limbed and flappy, mouthing words aimlessly. I've seen several colleagues running in flap who could be described thus.
He he!
I similarly worked in an office where the boss quoted such gems and I kept a log. I would recite these during overtime to fellow "workers" to great amusement. Wish I had the list...
The question is, the answer's no.
I came in the back door and I'm going out the front door.
two gems from a previous boss
He's as cool as a crisp.
We're moving in the right travel of direction. (He used this one in almost every meeting he attended. None of us had the heart to point out his error.)
Milli vanilli reminds me...
You might call it a misuse of language, but do admire people who can invent logical new words on the fly. Only last month I was working with someone who said the following, quite spontaneously without even pausing for applause:
"The process isn't highly systematic, but we don't just do it willy-nillily"
Previoulsy unheard, but pefectly logical:
Adjective = Willy-nilly
Adverb = Willy nillily
and one who does it:
William Nilliam?
My Fourteen Year Old Daughter Elizabeth. .....
"Mum wants a glass of wine and she,s prostate on the sofa.."
Bugger!
I was just about to raise the ubiquitous prostate/prostrate mix-up. Almost everyone I hear referring to said troublesome little blighter of an organ would have it lying flat somewhere...
Bugger the prostate?
Sorry.
Underestimate for overestimate
I mean how hard can it be. You get uber-berks on any 'top twenty of' programme going on about 'seminal artists' - unpleasant but accurate - and its incredible how often someone then says "His importance cannot be underestimated" or "It is impossible to underestimate his significance". Its really widespread and utterly ridiculous with even a moment's thought. It's actually the death of meaning - like 'performance related bonus' and 'you have to pay to attract the talent' - in BANKING? The biggest failure in history?
Similarly
our American friends often say "I could care less" when they mean exactly the opposite.
I like this
I love the fact that it's a phrase with in-built sarcasm, which of course our British one doesn't have.
Head above parapet...
It makes me seethe when people use 'unadvisably' instead of 'inadvisably'...grrrr!
(coat)
"One pence change"
My dear old dad arrived alone in England at age 14 as a refugee with barely a word of English, and had to learn it well an very quickly. As a result he had little time for people who had it as their mother tongue but mangled it.
One form this took was his kindly but firm correction of shop assistants:
Shop assistant: And that's your one pence change
Dad: One penny change. "Pence" is the plural. The singular is "penny".
Sickff for Sixth
and bloody Scalectricks -it's Scalextric!!! Makes me want to slot someone...
Always called it Scale-electrics as a child..
.. which had the merit of a degree of accuracy I suppose