Entertainment For Lively Minds
Do reviewers change their minds
It must be difficult to review a new album release. How many times do you listen to it before committing pen to paper? 5? 1? Just a partial listen?
The reason I ask is because i strongly disagree with the review in Word of Peter Gabriels Scratch my back release. However, had I have listened just once my conclusion would have been pretty similar to the review. It is a strange album for Gabriel as there is no percussion. Strange because he is an artist I most associate with rhythm in popular music. Taking that aside he has done a brilliant job of reinterpreting some pretty unusual choices of song to cover.For example Paul Simons The boy in the bubble. One of my favourite songs from Graceland I could never reconcile the lyrics with the jauntiness of the tune. Gabriel has slowed it right down and allowed the menace in the words to come to the fore. He does an equally impressive job with Randy Newman's I think its going to rain today and does an excellent impersonation of Guy Garvey elsewhere.
So my question is 'does the reviewer still believe this album doesn't cut it? or is there a re-evaluation of its merits? And if so, what other albums have reviewers changed their mind about?
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I remember a Melody Maker journalist doing exactly this
It was 'Here My Dear' by Marvin Gaye - he shredded it in a long review and then a couple of months later published a new review/full retraction/praise to the skies. He must have pleaded with his editor to be allowed to do it. About 1979? For some reason I'm thinking it was Colin Irwin but he was more folky wasn't he? Whoever it was I was very impressed by the simple humanity of the act - and its a wonderful if distressing record, perhaps hence the mea culpa
The fact that you disagree with my review...
...is not because you're right and I'm wrong (or even the other way round). Neither is it because you've listened to it more times than I have. There might, however, be a clue in your observation that you couldn't reconcile the lyrics of "The Boy In The Bubble" with the jauntiness of Paul Simon's recording. It's precisely that jauntiness that I love and I thought Gabriel's slowing it down was a pointlessly showy attempt to make it clear that he was mining "the dark side". That's called a difference of taste and that's fine.
FWIW I listened to that record ten times before I wrote about it. That's ten hours, which is a lot of your life to give to something that you're not that bothered about. And the longer you spend in the company of something you don't like the more your indifference can turn to outright hate. It didn't in this case but it could have. Then I had to write it, which took me about five hours.
I've changed my mind about lots of records. All reviewers do. They get it wrong some of the time, which is why most of the time they write variations on "all right if you like this kind of thing, three stars".
No examples but...
The reviewer has to make a fairly snap decision, and how many of us have heard something which didn't impress, then gone back to it later and loved it so, I think we should treat reviews as first impressions and nothing more. Personally, I remember scratching my head a bit when Led Zep III came out and now it's probably my favourite Zep album.
No examples but...
I just quoted one (doh).
I'm not sure if Lyn Gardner is a Word subscriber...
...but she addresses the issue from a theatre reviewer's POV in today's Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/mar/17/critics-notebook-lyn-gardn...
Odd that
I read that on the way into work to day and immediately thought of this thread too. Have an up arrow.
They must change, sometimes
Remember when "Standing On The Shoulders Of Giants" was The Future (according to the bulk of the music press)?
..I hate to correct you..
.. but its actually "Standing on The Shoulder Of Giants" (I only make this point because the bad grammar of the title was the most interesting thing about the album)
I stand corrected
As far as I am aware, on no shoulder at all.
I think...
that if you've been listening to music a long time, you get a sense of an album's potential straight away, even if you don't necessarily 'like' it the first time you listen to it. Steve mentions changing his mind about the Gabriel album, but I'd wager there was something that persuaded him to persevere, and it was experience.
Opinion must depend on external factors
When listening to any piece of music, our appreciation of it can not help but be influenced by external factors. Mood, health, time of day, school run, bad day at the office, holiday etc etc.
David Hepworth's dedication to the cause (ten hours) is admirable. Presumably, these were not ten consecutive hours but spread out over a few days. This would give ample chance for all the external factors to even themselves out and allow for a considered response.
There must be so much music that I have dismissed simply because I heard it at the wrong time of day or possibly the wrong time of life. I've introduced prejudices into my world based upon a brief exposure to a sound that I wasn't ready or willing to hear.
Recently there have been suggestions on the site to explore the world of Miles Davis. I could never get on with this stuff, based upon the premise that I don't like Modern Jazz (maybe because I once felt irritated by some). However, "a kind of blue" through the headphones, in darkness, late at night is now not only tolerated but enjoyed.
Having an objective opinion is clearly more desirable for reviewers than it is for listeners. If the word standard is 10 hours for a feature review, I'm impressed!
My ten hours
You say that would give me chance for the external factors to even themselves out and allow for a considered response. That's very kind of you to say but I'm not sure it's true. Listening to something for review purposes is completely different from listening normally. For a start you're always trying to decide what you think and then struggling with a way to make those thoughts interesting. And you're doing it against the clock with the amount of space you've got to fill already decided.
I can see that there was a time when people would depend on a review to provide either a quick thumbs-up or down to give them an idea whether a record was worth seeking out. Those days have gone. All music is there forever now and you can catch up with it - or it will catch up with you. There are millions of ways of discovering things nowadays (this site is just one) and you ought to read reviews because they've got something interesting to say in themselves, not because they're conducted according to some scientifically-approved standard.
And of course
all reviews are just snapshots; like opinions in suspended in aspic, preserved when the reviewer got hold of a copy of something to listen to and managed to commit their thoughts to the word processor or had to hit a deadline. He or she may be in a particular state of mind (chemically induced or otherwise0, may have only just listened to something similar/disimilar they did/didn't like or have had their preceptions coloured by a host of other factors, many of which may have nothing at all to do with music. In a year, they may hear the same thing again and think entirely differently. Nothing worthwhile is ever so fixed.
So of course reviweers change their minds. It's also why I've honestly never taken notice of a review, just treated them as interesting confections to be enjoyed on their own terms, because that's what the good ones are: a little snapshot taken inside the head of the person writing it at the time.
how is your mood
an external influence , isn't it by definition internal and there's no such thing as objective critism.
Disagree that reviews don't affect buying habits
I simply don't have time to listen and judge most months' releases for myself, so reviews (in The Word and a few others) are a handy shortlisting method. But a bad review doesn't mean I wouldn't buy it, I just triangulate the results from a few reviews.
But that twin reviewing idea is a good one. Shame it can't be done in a Maconie / Radcliffe style on a podcast special, but I guess clearing it would take forever.
Years ago my mate said that...
...the only albums worth their salt are the ones you don't like straight away.
If you drove from Lands End to John O'Groats with just one CD that 'isn't your thing' on repeat, you will get to really like bits of it. But hey, life's too short and we have probably all missed out on really great albums/artists.
You do wonder...
...if Charles Shaar Murray regrets the 9/10 for "Be Here Now". I snorted loudly when I read about that in this month's issue.
It was the snorting...
... that caused the problem in the first place.
I'd like to read 'twin reviews' of new records...
One by someone who really likes the album in question and the other by someone who detests it. I'd enjoy that.
Good idea
That's what sites like this are for. Over to you.
How about the new Joanna Newsom LP?
She divides opinion like... an opinion-dividing thing, and I'm sure we can find people for and against on this site.
(Admittedly, it is reviewed in the current issue)
Anyone...
... know a reviewer who has a twin?
I have twins
They're only 2 years old and the review will probably consist of them dancing manically if they like a song. I'll only let them do it for a proper paycheck though....
Gabriel....
I felt the review was less about the record and more an opinion piece about DH's dislike of "stripped down" cover versions.
Could not a lot of David's points be made about Johnny Cash's last recordings or is he off limits to that sort af criticism.
A review
is an opinion piece, surely? And if the reviewer doesn't like stripped down cover versions (and I think it was more that DH didn't like the rhythm being taken away from the songs) then its a fair point. I quite like the review on the basis that it suggested something that sounded logical but I hadn't considered before.
The subject of subjectivity...
...seems to come up quite a lot here. Reviews are always just one person's opinion, but a surprising number of people seem to want objectivity and balance in the reviews they read. I bloody don't.
Apart from anything else, consider our perspective now on "Be Here Now" and "Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants", two records which have been mentioned already. The vast majority of the music press, if I remember correctly, trumpeted those albums as masterpieces when they came out. History has judged them differently. I love that. Imagine when historians come across CSM's 9/10 review of "Be Here Now". In 2010, we just laugh; in 2110, surely they'll be intrigued by the clues it gives them about nineties pop culture.
Ramones debut
Vague memories of this being panned in Sounds on its release (too many songs, too short, all sound the same etc) and the reviewer doing a 180 degree turn in his opinion a few months later once it had been decreed a Very Significant Record.
Mr Hepworth, sir
I wasnt suggesting you were right and I was wrong or the other way round. I was however curious as to the reviewing process and how long you took to reach your viewpoint. 10 hours is very impressive although I doubt you would spend that amount of time on something you instantly and strongly disliked so I make the assumption that Gabriel did have some redeeming points.
I love Paul Simons The boy in the bubble but despite being aware of the words I always associated it with the sounds of summer. I guess this was because when Graceland was released I was living in Miami. Peter Gabriels version made me look at the song in a whole new light and for this reason alone I think the album is a worthwhile release. There are additional songs on the album that strengthen this view.
Patti Smith…
recorded a much better version of Boy In The Bubble than PG on her recent(ish) covers LP, Twelve. She kept the jauntiness of the original but used her vocals to add an emotional depth not found in the original (though I still like the Paul Simon version best) She also tackled Tears For Fears, Everybody Wants to Rule the World to good effect.
I love the idea that this key figurehead of punk, beloved of the indie-cred-journo crowd, has been busy listening to FM friendly pop from the mid-80s
It also depends on...
...the length of the review. David Hepworth's Gabriel review ran two pages, which means that he also got a proper paycheck for it. Under those circumstances it would have been very stupid to not listen to the album properly several times. But it's much more problematic when you have to write a 150-word capsule review about an album you're not very interested - then it's much more tempting to just base the review on your early impressions, because why bother getting into the album when you don't have much space to write about it anyway and in any case you won't get a proper pay for it.
"He also got a proper paycheck for it"
Oh my aching sides.
Now there I was, thinking that life at Word towers was...
a bacchanalian orgy of lissom groupies in private Lear jets, mountains of Bolivian marching powder and banquets of roast ox and foie gras, all funded by the wheelbarrows of cash that arrive daily at Mark Ellen's door. It seems the truth is more prosaic...
They are
quite small wheelbarrows, apparently.
David , why else would you
David , why else would you give the Peter Gabriel album two pages?
Surely because...
... Mr Gabriel is an artist of some note and interest and, despite the success or failure of his attempt to pare back his sound, the very fact that he has done so (after years of being associated with the kind of dense, labyrinthian, production that comes with having enough moolah to tool about in your own high-tec studio multi-layering each multi-layer) is worthy of considered opinion?
I dare say Mr Hepworth is not paid by the word, merely by The Word.
And in all but name...
... it's an Unplugged album. They are always quite interesting shorthand tools or signposts - regardless of actual merit - don't you think?
It's all a bit like the old political (non) debate
that says, "You stated in 1983 that xxxxx but now you've changed your mind. You're flip flopping blah blah blah." The truly surprising thing would be if reviewers never changed their minds and I suspect most of them would cheerfully acknowledge this. Maybe all those end-of-year reviews should feature a, "Record I've had a 180 degree change of mind on" spot.
Reviewing...
…is a funny old business. Sometimes you'll have a couple of days to file a sizeable review, so for perhaps a weekend, you'll get absolutely immersed in a record which might be of not much importance in the great scheme of things but after 48 hours it seems like it is. Which, as D Hepworth says, tends to heighten your opinion one way or another.
In defence of Word reviews, I think they grasped much earlier than most that the whole traditional review saying 'this is definitively good/bad' was fairly pointless in a world where everyone could post a review like that somewhere online. The real skill - and something readers (me, at least) will pay money for - is with someone who can actually contextualise a work, unpick the technical details behind it and perhaps leave the conclusion open ended. Mark Kermode often does this with film reviews, and Alexis Petridis on music in the Guardian. It's much harder writing to do as you have to REALLY know your stuff, rather than just weighing in with an opinion and a mark out of ten.
Reading reviews for reading sake
I now only read most reviews for the review themselves rather than as a guide - Uncut left me scarred and with shelves of stuff I didn't like.
I think Adam Sweeting was music writer for the Graunaid when it relaunched (before the Berliner relaunch) and I endeavoured to buy the album of the week every week for a few weeks(circa 1999). It was a means of educating myself or keeping abreast of the current trends.
However, I sacked that off after about six weeks as none of the records were for me.
But, I still love reading the reviews in the Guardian, The Times, The Independent every week and despite being immersed in the blogosphere for my professional duties - I prefer the papers.
Now this...
Is more like it!