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Coping with snow

masked tortilla's picture

As anyone currently living in the UK knows, when we have a bit of snow, the whole country grinds to a halt.

My children are just about to embark on their 3rd day off school, and I was wondering whether any of the Massive in parts more used to snow (say, Scandinavia/Canada) have any nuggets they can pass on about what happens in their countries when snow falls.

Over to you....

0

Here in Scotland

many are sceptical about how much snow it really takes to bring "the country" (some might say "Southern softies") to a grinding halt. But I guess this guy probably has it about right:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8418457.stm

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Douglas | 7 January 2010 - 9:23pm

"And if it keeps snowing...

... we'll go back and treat all the roads during the day until 2100."

Either Scotland is a much, much bigger country than I thought, or their gritter trucks are really, really slow.

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Billybob Dylan | 8 January 2010 - 12:38am

Not everyone is as pleased with his performance as he is

It's intriguing to see the difference in perceptions between the provider of a service and the people on the receiving end.

Here the BBC present the customer's view on Highland Region performance: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8444244.stm

In summary, it says
"Residents have been urged to refuse to pay council tax for a month in protest over the level of snow clearing on roads in and around their village.

The Grantown on Spey Highland Council Tax Strike has been launched on the social networking website Facebook.

A message about the campaign said roads and pavements had not been cleared and refuse left uncollected."

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Lucky Tiler | 8 January 2010 - 10:59am

Snökaos

They have it in Sweden too when the white stuff is dumped on them out of the blue, particularly by the coast where it drifts. But you're talking a metre's worth or so in that case. The key to coping is winter tyres, which are compulsory, plus relentless gritting and snow ploughs on every road. Not to mention triple-glazed windows in houses and equipment to make clearing your drive easier.

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Sven Garlic | 7 January 2010 - 9:34pm

I wonder about this often.

Anyone who has been on more than a few ski holidays will have seen how the continentals deal with snow. You carry on as normal, knowing how to drive in it. Unless it's really coming down, in which case you stay put, knowing that an enormous army of clearance machinery is about to kick into action. What I don't know is what they spread / spray on the roads in France. It works rather well.

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Lenny Law | 7 January 2010 - 9:54pm

Frenchies.

A cheeky little sauce.

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Pencilsqueezer | 8 January 2010 - 7:08pm

Fraser tells me...

...that the Trans-Siberian Railway runs throughout the year and is rarely more than a few minutes late.

1
David Hepworth | 7 January 2010 - 10:30pm

Countries...

...that experience regular, heavy snowfall are bound to be better prepared, and have better infrastructure in place, than a country that experiences snow for a few days a year, if that.

4
Spartacus Mills | 7 January 2010 - 10:42pm

Spot on

We're better than any country in the world at coping with drizzle.

4
milkybarnick | 7 January 2010 - 11:46pm

The irony is

that I have escaped the snow in the UK this week by virtue of a business trip to Buffalo - I've been here a week and have another week to go.

Today is the first day for about 10 days that it hasn't snowed. The locals say it's a fairly typical winter, although the -10 to -15 forecast for Saturday is a little unusual. There's lots of snow on the ground but it doesn't seem to cause much disruption - I guess people are used to adapting.

A lot of locals own trucks, and most seem to have plough attachments that can be hooked up fairly quickly. As a consequence, the roads are cleared fairly regularly - it seems this is a money making venture for lots of local trades people, not an act of charity. Even the parking lot of my hotel gets ploughed - at 1am and then again at 5am. Given the noise made, I think I'd prefer the snow.

Other than spending $90 on some decent waterproof boots, me and my 4 wheel drive hire car have been getting by OK. The only downside are the amused enquiries of the locals, who find the stories of panic buying in the UK highly amusing

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fortuneight | 7 January 2010 - 11:03pm

Want to pay more tax?

Personally I don't and much prefer to put up with the snow for a few days every 30 years or so.

2
Steerpike | 7 January 2010 - 11:10pm

Great point

We'd all be a bit miffed driving past council depots full of salt, grit and massive fleets of gritters the 99.99% percent of the time when they're not needed.

Inexcusable though is the state of affairs I read about in Perth last week, when the council explained that they couldn't get all their gritters onto the road because of the bad weather conditions. Meanwhile the traffic wardens were issuing tickets to cars abandoned on double yellow lines concealed by a foot of snow.

1
Lucky Tiler | 8 January 2010 - 10:06am

Here in western Norway

it was pretty chaotic the first couple of days too but the winter tyres help of course. Still loads of bitching about lack of proper clearing and as the snow has been laying for a couple of weeks and re-frozen its pretty treacherous off the main roads. -16C outside at present.

Cant be as bad as the UK though, at least we don't have a BIG FREEZE.

0
Sid Williams | 7 January 2010 - 11:41pm

In eastern Norway

it is now -28C, further to the north-east -42C.

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Norwegian Blue | 8 January 2010 - 1:56am

According to the Beeb

The snow is having similar effects in Northern Europe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8445613.stm

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Leedsboy | 7 January 2010 - 11:47pm

Psst

Anyone wanna buy one of these? Keep yer path clear for a fiver...

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Beany | 7 January 2010 - 11:58pm

I've got a 25kg sack in the garage.

I use it for curing bacon and hams. Good-quality sea salt it is. Buggered if I'm chucking it on the driveway. Unless things get desperate, in which case it's going on eBay.

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Lenny Law | 8 January 2010 - 12:00am

'curing bacon and hams'...

that's the spirit.

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Patrick Crowther | 8 January 2010 - 9:20am

Why

What's wrong with them...?

(grabs cagoule, scarf & gloves on way out)

1
Beany | 8 January 2010 - 10:56am

They had

swine flu, of course

0
DougieJ | 8 January 2010 - 10:41pm

Will plow for bacon

0
Norwegian Blue | 9 January 2010 - 2:46am

France

Having lived in France for a few years I can tell you that other than in the Alps, three flakes of snow paralises the country. People abandone their cars on the autoroute just at the idea.

0
Twangothan | 8 January 2010 - 12:01am

Love this photo

so much I have saved it on my computer to pinpoint my house...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/8447023.stm

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Beany | 8 January 2010 - 12:43am

You should try the big version

much easier for pin-pointing

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/?2010007-0107/GreatBritain.A2...

(though it may take a minute or two to download fully)

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Dr Yang | 8 January 2010 - 1:43am

Get your rock salt, get your rock salt, honey

...or so sayeth the Primal (Ice) Scream.

Here in the unglaciated hills and valleys of southwestern Wisconsin, every township has several thirty-foot piles of sand, and large covered sheds stuffed to the rafters with rock salt. The plows are usually out on the road before the first snowflake falls, putting down a heavy mix of that sand and salt.

We live on a low traffic county road, but even so, the plows come by every couple hours and keep the roads immaculate. Because we’re surrounded by dairy farmers we’re a top priority for plowing so the milk trucks can stay on schedule.

Like most of our neighbors we have a skidsteer with a bucket that we use for clearing our access road and the paths to our animal sheds (we raise goats and chickens). Those who don’t have a skidsteer use a plow with a blade. But everyone has some sort of heavy equipment for snow removal.

We have a 4-wheel drive Explorer as well. When we first moved here, we had a Camry with front wheel drive. That lasted a couple years before we got tired of getting stuck on our own access road, even after plowing. Plus, you can transport goats in an Explorer, which isn’t possible with a sedan unless you disassemble the goats first.

We had about 7-9 inches of snow fall today. The temp will drop to about zero degrees F. tonight and the windchill is supposed to be –20 to –25 tomorrow morning when I start to plow.

But I’m grateful it’s just cold and snow, and not the freezing rain we had a couple weeks ago.

1
scooter | 8 January 2010 - 3:00am

Our Little Mazda Demio ...

...has been getting us about very nicely thank you - wife was 2 hours late to work cos of all the other cars that couldn't manage Gildersome roundabout in Leeds!!!
Worse bit for us is the parked cars at the bottom of the hill where people have just decided not to risk it. The thing is the snow was such that when you drove on it it was breaking up nicely but not enough cars were doing it. Snowplow/Gritters haven't come up our street for years now after one tipped over into a garden.
Got told in Norway by a taxi driver that they have a tire change day which you have to comply with.

0
Tony Donaghey | 8 January 2010 - 8:53am

If the British Govt

Made it mandatory for every car owner to purchase and store a full set of winter tyres on the off chance that it might snow, there'd be uproar.

0
Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2010 - 9:55am

Its not compulsory in The Netherlands

But they have had a great deal of uptake because the manufacturers and the government ran campaigns jointly focused around the benefits. It can be done without legislation.

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Leedsboy | 8 January 2010 - 10:35am

Very well, but

1) How snowy is the Netherlands compared to the UK?
2) Define 'greal deal of uptake' 50%? More? Less?

0
Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2010 - 10:45am

What exactly

is a winter tyre? Just wonderin'

0
Beany | 8 January 2010 - 11:00am

Dunno really.

I think they must have greater tread depth. They do exist though, I haven't just invented it.

0
Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2010 - 11:01am

They also

have higher content of rubber so they grip better at lower temperatures.

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Leedsboy | 8 January 2010 - 11:34am

In Sweden

they have metal studs on them too - I assume this is standard for a winter tyre. They do damage the road surface to some extent though. Which is why I believe that in some countries, which get a fair bit of snow, they are not so keen on them.

0
Sven Garlic | 8 January 2010 - 1:08pm

In Norway's

three biggest cities you have to pay tax if you use studded tires (at the moment around £40 a month). It's mainly because of increased dust pollution.

0
Norwegian Blue | 8 January 2010 - 5:36pm

looks just like a summer tyre

but the rubber compound is a lot softer which means they keep their elasticity at colder temperatures but wear out quickly at higher temperatures, hence the need to change to summer tyres in the spring. They are hopeless on sheet ice though, as I found recently in skid pan training.

0
Sid Williams | 8 January 2010 - 6:11pm

Found this reasonably informative

admittedly a tyre company would say so but:

"The Dutch success story

The Netherlands' winter tyre market is a wellknown success story. A small, relatively flat country, similar to the UK, Holland does not experience bad winters; however, for the five month period, from November to March, winter tyres are in higher demand. As previously discussed by T&A the development in the Dutch market was due to a number of key factors, essentially the cooperation of a medium sized leasing company, a manufacturer and a retailer; the latter two, namely Vredestein and Euromaster.

Vredestein UK's managing director, Bert Stellinga explained that in 1995, winter tyres accounted for a mere 0.5 per cent of Dutch tyre sales. By 2002, after the success of the marketing campaign this figure had risen to seven per cent, which equated to 1.75 million tyres. And today, the market shows little sign of decreasing, having, according to Mr Stellinga, risen to somewhere between 10-12 per cent.

This success was not solely down to the combined efforts of the three companies. The campaign received massive support from the Dutch government, in the form of a national tyre awareness scheme. The initiative explored the tyre safety issues, for example showing the affect low tyre pressure has on fuel consumption. This worked to educate motorists and provide the significant message that winter.

Tyres contribute to safe winter driving, as opposed to being yet another opportunity for the industry to sell more tyres.

Vredestein's research shows that for the same five months of the year, the UK would benefit from winter tyres, in terms of road safety. In addition, there are clear statistics that show the temperature in the UK falls below 7°C for at least three months, and that the number of accidents rapidly increases in winter months. (See text box) Although a need has been identified, the use of winter tyres in the UK is still unheard of, and in most cases, when the subject is mentioned, it is met with laughter."

0
Leedsboy | 8 January 2010 - 6:57pm

The British Government could also ...

To ease traffic problems when there is snow, the government could make all public transport free.

We (the British) are genetically incapable of driving in the snow, and prone to treating a few flakes as a Time of National Emergency, so we might as well overreact in a way that might help people. As opposed to our usual government response of either doing nothing, or overreacting in a non-useful way.

0
stopgostop | 8 January 2010 - 10:43am

I'm not sure the Great

I'm not sure the British public are incapable of driving in the snow. The fact is that our roads are often gridlocked at the best of times, particularly during rush hour. Add a few inches of snow, and the resulting slippery conditions, to the equation, and things are bound to slow down.

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Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2010 - 10:50am

Back in my day...

From Andrew Marr's 'A History of Modern Britain'

"In the winter of 1947 . . . a great freeze had covered the country in thick snow, a bitter cold which brought the exhausted British very nearly to their knobbly, ill-clad knees. The country still ran on coal. But at the pits, the great piles of coal froze solid and could not be moved. The winding gears ceased to function...Power stations closed. . . factories across the Midlands had to stop and within a week two million people were idle. Atlee suspended television. Electric fires were banned for three hours in the morning and two in the afternoon.

Everywhere people shivered, wrapped in blankets in front of barely smoking coal fires. Around London commuters were unable to reach the capital. The whole of Scotland was cut off from the rest of the country. Then things deteriorated further. It was the coldest february for 300 years . . . green vegtables ran out in the shops. . ."

0
Spartacus Mills | 8 January 2010 - 11:54am

In Berlin

Roads are fine, pavements clear. Although we are being told to 'stock up' supplies ahead of an absolute blinder of a blizzard due in tomorrow. Having just moved into a spartan new flat with dodgy heating at best, the next few days are gonna be interesting.

0
Slotbadger | 8 January 2010 - 6:00pm

I recommend

One of those cosy little Berlin bars.

1
Twangothan | 8 January 2010 - 6:17pm

No Kachelofen, then, Slotbadger?

Maybe they're a thing of the past. (Haven't been to Berlin since 1978, but a Kachelofen - a ceramic tiled stove - stoked with charcoal brickettes would heat a whole flat.)

0
nigelthebald | 8 January 2010 - 6:26pm

There actually was one...

I can the see the marks where it used to be situated - unfortunately removed prior to my arrival!

But in absence of reliable heat, I am shortly about to venture out and follow Twang's excellent advice...

0
Slotbadger | 8 January 2010 - 6:31pm

Tough about the stove

Short-term I think you've made a wise choice, but I sure you're aware it's potentially a bloody long, bloody cold winter in Berlin...

0
nigelthebald | 8 January 2010 - 6:37pm

Stay Frosty,

Pour yourselves a stiff one,watch Fargo,The Shining,or any other snowy film and wait for Spring.

0
Pencilsqueezer | 8 January 2010 - 7:13pm

How does the man who drives the snowplough....

....get to work??

Anyway....

"Lately I was thinking of driving this snowplough, straight into the sun"


Fred don't look like he's dressed for the snow, though?

0
bigsteviecook | 8 January 2010 - 10:16pm
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