Entertainment For Lively Minds
Controversial music opinions
Posted by Native on 11 February 2011 - 10:18pm.
We all have one or two, so here is a haven to get them off your chest.
I'll start:
The Rolling Stones are awful and actually rather tragic.
Stock, Aitken & Waterman made some terrific records in the 80s that rescued a generation from Sting, Phil Collins and Eric Clapton.
Paul Weller makes incredibly boring music.
- More from Native.
- Login or register to post comments










Strawberry Fields Forever...
...is a dull dirge.
You Can't Do That
.
We have a winner
So flip over the 45..........
....it's 'Penny Lane'.
The greatest pop record ever made!
But
that's not the point of the thread, is it? And I don't have the 45 anyway.
And Penny Lane, good as it is, does not fully compensate for the overrated dullfest that's on the other side.
Sometimes I think Strawberry Field Forever marks the point when the Beatles ceased to be much good at all.
Strawberry Fields Forever
Was fresh, new and is, by his own admission, George Martin's favourite Beatles track. He first heard it when John Lennon played it for him acoustically and George though it an incredibly beautiful and important song.
I like it too, and there's nothing you can do about that.
Give me SFF anyday
Er, that's all I wanted to say, actually. Personally, I always hated Penny Lane. Ever since she pinched my lunchbox.
Doesn't sound like a dull dirge to me …
…sounds like a wonderfully atmospheric recreation of a moment in someone's childhood. Hey ho
Richard Thompson is...
Richard Thompson
is
neevr heard of 'em
The Coltranes
I listen to Alice more than I listen to John (love them both dearly)
Robbies better than John
Jazz = Man sawing wet log.
Lady Gaga is a talent vacuum...
in a dressing up box.
dressing up box yes
talentless no.
Have you heard the latest single ?
you might think again
Talent, yes...
...and she can fit more melodic hooks into a song than Paul Weller or Elvis Costello managed in an entire career. Apologies in advance, but I really really don't get those two. Consider coat got...
Shame they are not her own
Shame they are not her own though.
I don't actually know much about her
but I thought she wrote most of her own songs. Isn't that her "thing"? Or one of her "things" anyway, since we can't forget the outfits.
Patrick:
This does nothing for you?
Sorry, it is long. But this is the clip that changed my opinion of her. If nothing else, she can play the piano a bit (9.20).
It does nothing whatsoever for me I'm afraid...
I loathe her music. And her stupid fucking costumes. And her stupid fucking piano.
If other people enjoy it, that's great.
Ok
Thanks for trying, anyway. As you were.
'tis the Law of Gaga
if anyone points out that the over-rated, foghorn voiced, Butlins Madonna impersonator is actually not that good, you will be met with a clip of her playing the piano on Youtube or doing an acoustic version of one of her tunes to prove that she is a 'real' artist. Poker Face sounds like a Steps B-Side to my ears.
Ouch
It hurts to be fulfilling that particular law. She seems more talented and interesting to me than Madonna ever was.
Just an observation
not a dig at you sir.
Thanks
No biggie.
Excuse Me! I Resemble That Remark!
For I have indeed posted clips of Gaga playing acoustic versions of her songs, or rather, Poker Face, and doing it rather well, I thought.
I'm not sure that the song is strong enough to merit the full treatment that she gives it, but that wasn't my point. The point was, at the time, that I thought that there was more to Gaga than met the eye, and I still do. Although I'm not sure that I can be bothered to keep pointing it out.
Don't think her piano
Don't think her piano playing is that spectacular and her voice is horrible!
Well that clip has completely changed …
my opinion of her.
My daughter's favourite joke...
How do you make Lady Gaga cry?
Poker Face.
Try the steak, I'm here all week...
Seconded.
A style looking for a devotee to assert the existence of some content.
Guys.....
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I have a hunch that we're none of us her target audience.
Who are her target audience?
The deaf?
Better that I guess....
Than the target audience of the majority of the bands held in high esteem on here.
The dead.
Don't knock the Dead.
They remain a wonderful live act.
The Grateful Dead
are bollocks and so were Jefferson Airplane.
Axl Rose
has a very irritating voice
Very true
but unlikely to start any arguments.
No fights yet?
Nirvana's career tally of one excellent single and a handful of decent album tracks puts them on the same rung of the rock n roll ladder as The Primitives, Propaganda and McAlmont & Butler.
Still, every copy of "Nevermind" you suckers buy makes Courtney Love a little richer - so it's not all bad...
Bit harsh
Propaganda had 2 excellent singles Duel and Dr Mabuse
Bit harsh
Propaganda had 2 excellent singles Duel and Dr Mabuse
smart phones
not that smart
I don't think so
I would put them fourth on that list
U2
are really rather good. Mick Hucknall is a fantastic singer with some cracking songs in his repertoire. Amiina are my favourite band at the moment.
Hucknall did a superb job
with The Faces
Steps...
..."Greatest Hits" is as good as any pop music of the last 30 years, including ABBA
That is just
Wrong on so many levels. To me Steps greatest talent was being able to sing averagely and smile profusely at the same time.
My detestation of
Aretha Franklin's dreadful caterwauling knows no bounds.
I also really, really dislike AC/DC, who appear to be everyone's favourite cavemen on this blog.
Oh, and and I hate Frank Sinatra, but that's probably more to do with that awful Rat-Pack image stuff than his music.
And don't anyone give me that tired old cloth/tin-ears comeback, these are my opinions and I'm sticking to them.
Bruce Springsteen
is a grunting, mumbling chump whose earnestness induces nothing so much as vomiting.
You forgot the lyrics
Dear God the honking lyrics
Bruce Springsteen
Bruce Springsteen live is the best concert experience I have ever had.
Manipulative? - yes
Melodramatic? - yes
Fabulous entertainment? - absolutely.
I think the man is a genius, & his bathwater has healing properties.
ELO were Better Than The Beatles
note not necessarily my opinion
The 80s
great decade for pop 45s
That's the least
controversial of the lot for me.
The 80s - rebalanced
Worst decade on record for music. Where it all went wrong. Production values - shite. Bands - none, but those pretending to be bands, shite. The charts - shite. Music telly - worse. MTV. Shite. Unspeakable, in the UK at least. The Americans remembered how to make rock music, just. Virtually nothing produced in that decade with any degree of "success" has any value whatsoever. Conversely, being unsuccessful in the 80s probably means you were trying to make decent music. There was something in the water.
Watch and vomit
"Watch and vomit"
That was on TV during the punk years IIRC.
The example you have embedded here is a band, barely over 20, performing an insanely catchy pop song that they wrote and performed themselves and released through an independent label. That song still fills the floor regularly at your local discotheque/wedding/tragic work do some 30 years later.
They have since written and performed hundreds of songs and performed thousands of times to millions of people all over the world. If there is ever a band that pretends to be a band, it's not this one.
This statement
is just a million kinds of 'wrong'. I realise that we all have differences of opinion on here, but the level of vitriol and narrow-mindedness in these comments is just laughable. I think the major clue is the contextual mention of 'rock music', which is (a)inaccurate - there was plenty of interesting 'rock' created in this country if you cared to look beyond certain narrow parameters, and (b) demonstrates a bewildering disregard for countless other musical genres which thrived in the 80s e.g. electronica, soul, rap/hip-hop, and - oh the horror! - POP!!
All of which means that, as a statement
deliberately posed to be controversial (c.f. the original post), Twang has nailed it.
Except that
judging from the tone and content of various other comments made over the years, he probably means every word. Not deliberately controversial; rather, in deadly earnest.
If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected.
Flattered
I am flattered that you single out my controversial option as the one to take seriously over all the others, and indeed that you remember all my other posts. Shucks.
But that's the question, Mr Twang
Was it a statement designed to stir up controversy, or was it (as I suspect) a reflection of your genuine feelings? Of course I don't recall all your previous comments verbatim, but the general thrust has always been heavily weighed towards the promotion of 'traditional' rock/guitar-based music (hence the name?) and heavily against what you seem to consider as trivial, somehow 'inauthentic' music, encapsulated in your diatribe above.
As I said, if your purpose was to add a deliberately controversial point of view (without actually meaning it), I'll stand corrected. But if the comments were of serious intent, because they were presented with so much negativity, I'll also stand by my serious response.
What's the point of anyone posting comments if they are not debated or discussed?
Bit of both to be honest
It was a sip and click moment which are frequently better left unclicked, but hey, too late now. As stated, it was intended to be a balance to the Super 80s posts (in the spirit of the OP) by dissing the 80s in a deliberately OTT way. Do I like guitar rock? Yes, and reggae, and jazz, and classical, and prog, and soul music, and folk, and country, and Everything But the Girl (see - they're well 80s). Do I like synth pop? Not really. I find the repetitive rhythms and simple melodies quite limited and irritating, but that's only my view. Plenty of people here dissed Springsteen who I think is one of the greatest stars. So what. It's all for a larf, isn't it?
Actually I met Depeche Mode a few times when my girlfriend of the time was doing the catering at Konk Studios and they were lovely blokes so I feel slightly regretful at a fairly careless comment. Still don't like that song though, however many weddings it's been played at. I don't like "Wonderful tonight" much either. Though I think Clapton gets a bum rap here.
Sorry if my drunken ranting caused you grief. I'm not the first and probably won't be the last to wake up and discover some horror on the blog you vaguely remember typing...
Fair do's
thanks for your honest reply. :-)
Heh heh.
I posted something exceedingly acidic and scathing last night on another thread, awash with righteous indignation after a few refreshments. I was so tart with my remarks that I actually remembered what I'd written when I woke up this morning, logged on sharpish and was delighted to find that no-one had yet pulled me up on my graceless cruelty. Thank Fraser for the edit function!
What it made me think was...
...grew up possibly llistening to early '70s rock, then punk, just about managed elements of new wave, then got utterly peeved with the Smash Hits generation and drifted off ... thereby, born somewhere 1960-1965 (plus or minus 3 either way) ... probably believed that music had been nicked by a bunch of shoegazers and fey boys with silly haircuts by 1983/84 ...
(i am 48)
Yep, American "Rock"
in the 80's was great....wasn't it?
Cinderella, Poison, Motley Crue, Mr Mister, Starship, Bon Jovi, Journey, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Chicago, Kiss, Pat Benatar, Heart, Kansas, Steve Miller, John Parr, John Waite, Asia (all Brits, yes), J.Geils Band and Foreigner.
Lovely stuff.
No wonder all the "cool" US kids rushed towards British synthpop and our "alternative" music. If in doubt - check out "Ferris Bueller's Day off". This "righteous dude"( as he's referred to) has posters by the Cabs, Killing Joke, Bryan Ferry on his walls. There is no sign of Dylan / Springsteen / Waits / Mellencamp anywhere.
Now if you were to be defending US "alternative / college" rock, I'd agree (to an extent), but they were all responses to the horrible music being pushed by the mainstream and looked to the UK for inspiration.
And, of course, the 'cool kidz' always like the very best music.
What, you mean to say
you weren't a cool kid? I'm disappointed.
Pet Sounds
is a bit rubbish.
Variation on a theme... Pet
Variation on a theme...
Pet Sounds has two or three great songs and a load of filler
Ditto
Sergeant Pepper
Ditto
Astral Weeks.
NO!
Pet Sounds is not a bit rubbish it is a lot rubbish.
Revolver is a better album than Sgt Pepper.
"Revolver is a better album than Sgt Pepepr"...
That's just obvious as far as I'm concerned.
And Abbey Road
Is better than both!
BEACH BOYS
Quite agree... Pet Sounds is the most over-rated album of all time. God Only Knows why the only band Macca felt threatened by were the bloody Beach Boys.
..and don't get me started on Queen... or New Order... or Belle and Sebastian...
Jeff Buckley
That album, you know the one reviewers cream over. Come here. No over here. Away from the others.
It's bloody awful.
Dylan can sing
He's just too chuffing lazy to bother.
Joni Mitchell was right: Bob
Joni Mitchell was right: Bob Dylan IS a plagiarist and a fake.
so was Shakespeare
and he turned out ok. Remember Wilde's line. Talent borrows, genius steals
Yes, I was just being
Yes, I was just being "controversial." But I do think that Dylan fans twist themselves into all sorts of knots rationalizing his lyrical thefts ("it's not plagiarism because the works Dylan stole from were no longer protected by copyright"). They cut Dylan all sorts of slack that they wouldn't offer to other songwriters accused of the same thing. I expect musicians to borrow bits of music from what came before. But repeated lyrical thefts by a guy whose main claim to fame is his lyrics just seems off to me. ... Then again, I'm only a lukewarm fan of Dylan's stuff.
And Joni Mitchell slept her
And Joni Mitchell slept her way to success. Reportedly.
Elvis Costello's voice...
is not a thing of great beauty
La Roux...
Sounds like some woman shouting over a Depeche Mode 12" single.
Controversial?
How?
vinyl does not sound better
Well it doesn't
Exactly
Cross channel leakage, poor dynamic range, inner grove distortion.
The supposed better sound is due to 2nd order harmonic distortion caused by reproduction being a mechanically based process. Look up Euphonic distortion for a longer explanation.
Great name for a group though
The 2nd Order Harmonic Distortions.
Surprisingly enough, there'll be...
TMFTL
It's not.
Recordings do sound better on vinyl. It's to do with waveforms, high fidelity is to do with getting rid of distortion, not the opposite.
The Jam are
the greatest singles band and Paul Weller is the greatest British popular song writer.
Pretty much agree with that dave
No controversy for me there
Been listenting
to Direction Creation Reaction on shuffle this week so many truly great songs in what? 5 years? Incredible really.
bang
on.
Keith Richards
Is a twat.
Agreed...........
But Keith Richard (no 's') is one of the beautiful people.
A VERY important distinction.
Keith Richard
is a twats
Beauty would have to be a hell of a lot
deeper than skin level then.
Queen
Overblown, operatic, shite pomposity.
I refer the honourable gentleman
to my earlier post...
Nope.
Fun. Remember fun? Oh, hang on, you probably like Radiohead don't you?
I would rather
listen to nails on a blackboard than hear Freddie sing and the there's Brian May, good god they're awful
David Bowie
Everything he has ever done is shite.
Well, ok, apart from The Laughing Gnome.
Um.
You are me and I claim my £5.
Outside the pair of you
and stay there until it stops raining.
Oh You Pretty Things. Even Peter Noone does it justice.
which all just goes to show
that "As usual, David Bowie is the answer".
Wow
...
I disagree
I don't think he really got started until Never Let Me Down.
Scott Walker
is a tad pretentious
Agreed.
He is also bloody magnificent!
Progressive
wasn't, particularly
Elbow
Get worse with every album.
Elbow...?
Getting worse? Hmmm. Maybe each album is longer than the last.
That'd do it.
The Firm's Star Trekking is a great song
I genuinely believe this. It's not high art, but as a bubblegum song yer milkman can whistle... I hold similar views about 3Lions
The Damned
Better than the Clash and Pistols. Combined.
Never
got the credit they deserved, and unjustly dismissed as a panto act. Machine Gun Etiquette and The Black Album are two of my favourite records ever.
And Strawberries
You can add Strawberries to that list - a fantastic trilogy of albums.
The good Captain is never recognised for his brilliant guitar playing.
And the Capt made a brilliant single
I give you Glad It's All Over. The video should make most people smile too.
Radiohead
The emporers have on clothes on.
Christ,
yes. Yes yes yes. Been licking their own colons since Creep.
and this my man...
...is complete shit. greatest band of my generation.
Glad to be old
I'm glad that I'm of my generation then!
The musical setting for Paul Simon's "Gumboots"
was stolen from Benny Hill
The Clash were shit
Proper shit.
Yep...
...this wins for me.
Couldn't agree more.
Revisionism to an alarming scale.
Dead
wrong.
Twelve Massive Ups
Can't be wrong.
Make that 13 !
proper over-rated ! Bought London Calling (album) to see what the fuss was about, to the charity shop a couple of plays later.
12 massive ups cant be wrong
But 12 ups doesnt mean it is cast in stone either.
Its opinion, not the laws of physics.
I love the Clash. Couldnt give a rats behind if no one else does.
So there.
Depeche Mode
are great.
Yes they are
The controversy there is that you are not saying they are the best British group ever ever ever. Which is true.
My Mum once called Dave Gahan...
"Penis Head" whilst watching TOTP.
You might have misheard her
It's possible, isn't it, that she actually said "Genius, Ted!". If she thought that there was someone else in the room called Ted. Admit it, it's possible.
No it was "I'll be in the shed"
I was listening behind the sofa
One Jean Carne album
Is worth more than all the albums by The Beatles, Bob Dylan and Richard Thompson combined.
Philly Soul
Are you George Bernard?
Now if you'd said James Brown or The Miracles or Marva Whitney or something....but Philly bloody Soul!
The absolute death knell for black music (though it did, admittedly come a few years after the absolute death knell for white music which was, as we all know, Led Zeppelin's first LP).
Hey.......this thread's fun!!!!
Philapdelphia
Philapdelphia International...better than Motown...
Thank you Morrison
Philly soul is music for those with blood in their veins, music to dance to and love to, music of the heart with those joyful (and sometimes heartbreaking) strings.
Anyways we needn't listen to ranger, earlier in the thread he suggests penny lane is the greatest pop single ever, hah, try convincing anyone who grew up after about 1967 of that one (I've heard arguments for everything from teenage kicks to I should be so lucky but penny lane? I don't think so)
Philly Soul
is a fairly wide-ranging term but in the classic phase mid 70s to early 80s - it's a sound that was and is superb.
Some great tunes but
Is there really more than say 10?
Are there really any albums that hold up?
A fantastic Philly song is without doubt a fine thing but are there really enough of them
But this one is perfect for Valentine's Day
its
the buzzcocks - ever fallen in love
What did John Lennon actually do...?
Apart from write and sing a few good tunes, seriously?
I'd like to take the opportunity of this amnesty to ask, what did he ever do for us?
He was in The Beatles.
He was in The Beatles.
But he was, by a considerable margin,
the least talented of the four. In fact make that five, as Stu Sutcliffe was, apparently, a prodigious talent.
In fact, make that six
as Jimmie Nicol was an absolute prodigy, too.
as
was Jimmy Naill
Don't forget
The airport
Above us only sky!
Oh how I laughed.
If....
....John Lennon 'is' the sixth Beatle, that makes him the sixth most important person in post-war pop music.
i.e. quite high.
There's no F in airport
A conventional view, none the less.
Bruce Springsteen
A classic case of perspiration over inspiration?
Lots of bellowing and posturing, but not that many great songs.
Probably 85% of stuff that is lauded
among these pages and in the magazine does little for me. I really can't get excited about Springsteen, Neil Young, Tom Waits, Van Morrison etc.
I've said before, my music tastes are closer to that of the terribly dry and humourless Wire Magazine but my taste in writing is more 'Word' and the kind of people I like to converse with are in abundance here in the Word Massive. I do try and keep my opinions on some of the sacred cows of rock & pop to myself. Fleet Foxes and Midlake are fair game though!
Outside now!
There's a limo waiting to take you to the airport where a private jet will whisk you off for two weeks in a five star hotel in Mustique. It's all on me.
Erm..hello..
any room for one more?
Step this way..
..would Sir care for the wine list?
Can I have
the 1971 vintage whine? Ask the pilot to play The Yes Album as well.
Neil & Nick
Neil Young really isn't as inspiring as everyone says he is. Awkward, sermonising lyrics and often dull arrangements. 'Harvest' is plain boring.
Nick Drake was certainly a special talent, but he has been elevated by some into a major national bard, and there is something precious and a bit jejune about his writing.
True dat
Solid Air makes all three Nick Drake albums look shit.
Mac Bolan/ T Rex...
...were a one-trick pony, and the trick was rubbish. And don't start me on the lyrics...
I agree with you to a point
He couldn't play guitar for toffee and all the songs basically sounded the same.
It produced a handful of decent singles while it lasted, though.
And he looked good on stage.
And he had great hair!
So it wasn't all bad ;-)
"Got giraffes in my hair and I don't care..."
"I drive a Rolls Royce cos it's good for my voice"
Genius, surely?
Up there with Liam for lyrical genius...
But he still had
great hair!
I'm her two-penny prince
and I give her hot love.
The entire history of western civilisation in less than a dozen words and you don't like his lyrics???
Justin
Currie is a brilliant songwriter.
Marillion's back catalogue eclipses that of Genesis.
Kate Bush goes on a bit.
Aguilera is a talented singer.
Neil Finn can piss better songs than Weller. So can Paddy McAloon.
Patty Griffin is the best thing to come out of America in the last 15 years.
There's been no world-beater of a band since the Fabs.
I'll stop now.
I've never heard any Midlake
..because I refuse to listen to anything by a group of men who look like they'd be happier restoring vintage tractors than making music. They're a book I can't help but judge by its cover.
Having seen them live
I can confirm that during one of their more exploratory works the drummer restored a vintage tractor backstage, and started work on a threshing machine.
For a minute I thought that said
Peter Griffin is the best thing to come out of America in the last 15 years.
Which is undoubtedly true.
Just
think, if they were related, what a dynasty that would be.
I'll take Patty over Peter, but I'm with you on the comedy.
Justin Currie
is the most under rated songwriter both critically and publicly but I am biased.
Well, there was a time there...
...back in the late 90's or early naughties where young Justin was highly regarded at M*j*, seemingly cited as a 'writer's writer' or some such, judging the awards etc. Didn't last mind.
Anyway, conTROVersy....Justin Currie and Neil Finn are both better songwriters than Paul McCartney.
Yeah right,
Justin Currie and Neil Finn. Ha ha ha. Oh dear. Very amusing. Well done.
But...
Neil Finn and his brother Tim both got an OBE for services to the NZ music industry. John Lennon only got an MBE.
You've only
got to think of forming a band in NZ and you get an OBE.
Gilbert O'Sullivan's 'Alone Again (Naturally)'...
is one of the best songs of the 1970s.
I think you and I
Are in full agreement on this one Patrick.
One of my parents albums that I always really liked
Always loved 'Independent Air' in particular. A lot of the record was a bit naff but very melodic and strangely touching
And
One of the most depressing.
Off topic
but back in the day I heard Andy Williams attempt to sing GOS's follow-up to Alone Again (Naturally), another lovely song called We Will.
The problem was, the phrasing of We Will is quite idiosyncratic and it also contains several distinctly English references such as:
"On Sunday next, if the weather holds, we'll have that game, but I baggsy being in goal"
Fine when Gilbert sings it, but buttock-clenchingly awful in the hands of poor old Andy.
Astral Weeks
Due to some kind of drug-induced mass hallucination which overtook all rock journalists in 1969, the dirge-like Astral Weeks was accidentally declared to be the best album ever made.
It has recently been proved that this is not the case and, in fact, Moondance pisses all over it.
An EU Commission has been set up to look into this 42 year-old deception, with a decision expected to be handed down around 2015.
Warner Music shares fell several points yesterday with the expectation that the company will recall several million copies of Astral Weeks and issue refunds of thirty two shillings and sixpence in old money to each of the original buyers, many of whom co-incidentally are no longer alive.
When asked for a comment on the news that Astral Weeks wasn't really as good as we'd been led to believe for four decades, Van Morrison reportedly said "Piss off out of my garden you fecking eejit and let me get back to me potted herrings! I'm fecking famished!"
Investigators from Brussels are also reported to be looking into the great "Pet Sounds is actually really good, honest" scam from 1966.
chumbawumba
Underated
and
mis-spelled.
Golden Age
The 60s was the only era for pop music.
The fact that they are 'always' used as the template next to which things are compared proves this.
'No 60s.....no comment'.
Nirvana
shocking live
I'll go one further
Nirvana - shocking in general.
What does that make The Stone Roses then?
Spike Island - The Emperors New Woodstock
Neil Young can't sing
Jack Kerouac's On The Road is bollocks
What's Going On is a boring album
David Soul's first album is a corker
Not writing
Typing.
Someone famous on Kerouac who I'm too lazy to google
Truman Capote
.
Agreed on
What's Going On. Precious, over-arranged, over-produced bullshit which marked the start of the slide of Motown.
Here's one: it is impossible to listen to more than half a dozen tracks from any Motown hits compilation back-to-back without starting to feel brainwashed.
Also re: David Soul
Silver Lady is a blinding record.
Controversial literary opinions..
I'm with you on Kerouac. The Beats in general are responsible for a catalogue of evils* that rank alongside those of the Third Reich.
Okay, maybe not that bad, but you get my drift.
*Jim Morrison for starters.
Jim Morrison's ghost, currently recording his solo album...
Still Lamenting My Cock After All These Years.
I fucking loath The Beats
I wasted too much of my teenage years trying to read that crap. Junky Queer and the first 50 pages of Naked Lunch are the only bits of beat writing worth a damn.
Agreed, although
if you haven't read Ted Morgan's biography of Burroughs then I'd heartily recommend it - not only is it vastly superior to the man's own writings (not difficult) but it is an epic and gripping story in its own right.
Please everybody read.....
Off The Road by Carolyne Cassidy.
She is the ex wife of Neil Cassidy, the yas yas yas man in On The Road and, whilst she certainly doesn't come across as bitter you clearly get a sense of what a bunch of selfish shits these guys were. It's a great tale very well told. I met her at a reading and she was a really lovely lady.
Seconded
Off the Road. Wonderful book.
I'll definitely have
one of those. It might go some way to making up for all those teenage hours I lost to the buggers when I should have been out chasing girls and drinking cider.
British Weekly Music Journalism
destroyed more good music than it nutured.
Throbbing Gristle were the only "true" punk band, creating noise from nothing and on-purposely not playing their instruments. Everybody else that picked up a guitar played pub rock. At a slightly faster speed.
Heavy metal is the people's music. Not folk.
Rap Music has engendered a hateful, worldwide misogynistic view of women, far worse than any spandex-wearing metal band.
Yes, yes and yes!
Rarely have I encountered such good taste in a single short post!
Ta!
For that!
Nail/Head
Folk stopped being Ver Peoples Music the day that Ewan McColl set himself up as the sole arbiter of what was 'authentic'.
Mind you, that Cecil Sharp has something to answer for as well.
HM, on the other hand, is the greatest working class art form this country has ever produced.
Whilst you may have a point on the hole...
...rap music has notable exceptions to your misogyny slur, eg Public Enemy who I think were the single most exciting band during Nation of millions/fear of a black planet era.
And how can you defend Smell The Glove ?
A point on the hole?
I'd get that looked at mate...
"A point on the hole"
passed on by STD... (sniggers childishly) :-)
sorry, that was a childish pun on miscogeny...
Public Enemy have to be one of the most right on bands in history.
Except if you are Elvis of course.
or John Wayne.
Or 911.
Or Hollywood.
Or black girls who go out with white guys.
Outside of that, it's a broad church !
Carte blanche, Eh
Fairport Convention...a load of middle class geography teachers who are only ever one line away from "The Squire he came along one misty morning and a hey nonny no"
I imagine all the albums sound like variations on "Day Trip to Bangor" bet there's a song about a ship leaving Liverpool never to return ...There, i've said it..obviously "How knows....." is fantastic but i stand by the rest.
The illegitimate children of this band are the godawful Bellowhead.
Cirencester agricultural college's version of Glee. Quite simply the worst thing i've heard,They lack everything that makes music good.
Bring it on,i'm tooled up and have had 3 cups of coffee.
"Cirencester agricultural college's version of Glee"
Genius. :-)
It is impossible
to be more wrong.
You are my wife, Sour Crout
and I claim my £5
a woman of taste
sounds like a keeper,douglas.
Pete Townshend's 'Empty Glass'...
is better than any of The Who's albums apart from Who's Next and Live at Leeds.
Ever heard of...
...mod or swinging 60s?
Oh yes
Wise words indeed. Who singles - different matter - though Empty Glass has a couple of good ones. I recently and cathartically reduced my car to a pile of tired molecules doing a feeble form of Brownian motion by turning up "Rough Boys" to danger levels going over the moors near Stanhope
it's a matter of taste
I've said it before and I'll probably it again...wouldn't the world (and word) be a dull place if we all liked the same stuff.
I agree with the OP anout the Rolling Stones. Same goes for the Who, the Jam, Capatian Beefheart, Tom Waits, Neil Young, Bob Dylan and so on and so on
A few years ago I would have said the same about the likes of Richard Thompson and anything in the least but folky. Time and tastes change.
I hold these truths to be self-evident...
Dave Grohl - better singer, songwriter and guitar player than the dead one. And a better drummer too.
Pink Floyd - better when they got rid of the one who wrote the nursery rhymes.
Tom Waits - did all his best work before the missus got involved.
Trout Mask Replica - unmitigated shite.
The Catcher in the Rye - Just give the snotty little bastard a slap and tell him to have a word with himself.
Blonde on Blonde - great album ruined by having the worst opening track on any album, ever.
With you on all these
esp. Blonde on Blonde - I haven't listened to Rainy Day Women for years.
Johnny Cash Is not a totem for authenticity
He had a catchphrase, costumes and a nickname, ferchrissakes.
Johnny Cash's comeback
would have been rendered irrelevant if not for the cover of American Recordings.
Living up to that image (rather then the other way around) is what made his later years great.
Without the video for Hurt,
his comeback would have stalled at the first 'American' album.
Bloody good video though:
(30 million views? Wow!)
Except of course
Hurt is on the FOURTH American album.
.......
... which was the last one he released during his lifetime, less than a year before he died. The single wasn't released (along with the video) until about 6 months before he died.
Johnny Cash's best album
is 1965's Orange Blossom Special.
http://open.spotify.com/track/7svl5yiIsuS43XYw9XQXQP
Dogs
The Who (post 1966 and continuing to the present day) are like a microcosm of everything that went wrong with rock music.
Yes
My comment to this comment is yes.
I'll go slightly further, though.
It's really when one The Who (and everyone else) became ugly.
Compare photos of the group in '66 with photos of the group in 1971 or 1973 or 1976 and weep, really really weep, 'cos that's this country that is.
Want proof?
Compare photos of your local high street in the same period.
Randy Newman...
...is one of the most annoying music artists on earth.
Thank You!
All you need to know about Randy "my uncle was a film composer you know" Newman...
Well put!
Very much agree with you there!
Kate Bush
is a bit sceechy.
Hey!
That's fightin' talk round these parts!
Up
I've already posted this elsewhere but Right Said Fred were the most creative thing to come out of the 90's.
I'm too sexy
is a damn fine choon. As is deeply dippy
No.
They're shit, both of them royaly shit.
I was in a pound shop today
Saw a deluxe reissue of RSF's Up with bonus tracks and am extra DVD of 8 (count 'em) vids for... £1!
Still a bit
dear.
Dark Side of the Moon
is really not very good at all when you listen to it now: all noodling and pomposity. And the one half-decent sounding track (Great Gig In The Sky) is ruined by the most self-indulgent caterwauling in rock history.
These are my opinions: if you don't like them, I have others.
Bring them on then, dougie boy
DSOTM is clearly the most perfectly conceived vinyl album of all time.
The best album recorded at Abbey Road, it's AR minus Maxwell/Octopus, Revolver with more bullets, Sticky Fingers without the filler, Pet Sounds without 6 average songs.
Next ?
spot on
so boring, like prog house gone wrong
1. Led Zeppelin were
1. Led Zeppelin were overindulgent with a lot on caterwauling over the top.
2. Laughing Len's Hallelujah is a tedious dirge whoever sings it.
3. Pink Floyd haven't made a decent record since Syd left.
Substitute
I don't know what happened to Bob Dylan in 1966 but from John Wesley Harding onwards he has been replaced by a bloke who looks completely different and sings in a completely different voice.
William Campbell
was a busy fella in 1966...
Kanye West IS a genius.
808s and Heartbreak WAS fantastic.
And everything Thom Yorke touches turns to gold.
Kanye makes good music,
but I really do not like him.
My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is a very good album, so was his first I thought.
you want controversial?
1. Led Zeppelin lost the plot after Physical Graffiti
2. Radiohead have not made a listenable record since Ok Computer
3. Deep Purple should have broken up after Blackmore left.
4. Bob Dylan is now a busted flush live.
5. Neil Young sounds like an old woman and is vastly over rated.
6. The new Thin lizzy is an affront to Phil Lynott's memory.
7. Lou Reed is not as influential as he and everyone seem to think.
8. Rock music as a genre of popular culture has progressed as far as it can without becoming obviously derivative, unoriginal and unexciting. There are no true heroes any more. Most of them are dead.
If I might amend that for my own purposes...
1. Led Zeppelin were unaware of any so called 'plot' at any time.
2. Radiohead have not made a listenable record.
3. Deep Purple should have broken up after 'Hallelujah'.
4. Bob Dylan is a busted flush.
5. Neil Young is an old woman and is vastly over rated.
6. Thin lizzy is an affront.
7. Lou Reed is not as influential as he seems to think.
8. Rock music as the name of a genre of popular culture puts me off listening to it. Same goes for 'licks', 'riffs', 'axe', 'Marshall stacks' and 'technical ability'
Pardon me, please.
Deep Purple? Hallelujah?
Doing a Laughing Len cover? Really?
That's right up there with Black Sabbath's glorious rendition of Bird On A Wire.
Not Laughing Len...
Greenaway & Cook, take a bow..
Lizzy
are an affront to what?
Just generally an affront..
I can't believe the esteem they are held in. It's just dreadful cocking around.
Cocking around
There are worse things to do.
There are..
but if one is to cock around, the least one can do is to cock around well. Thin Lizzy was such a dreadful display of cocking around that it almost puts me off the concept in general.
I admit it - I don't get it. Is it supposed to be 'rocking'? Because it doesn't sound like rocking to me. I don't like rocking, particularly, but I recognise that Led Zepp rocked, and Black Sabbath and all that lot. Thin Lizzy was just nunty to my ears.
Not even soft rock. I know, I know, everybody gets it but me....
'Human's Lib' by Howard Jones
and 'Human Racing' by Nik Kershaw
are both really good records, with proper, thoughtful grown-up lyrics and interesting arrangements. They contain songs which are actually about something, and broadened the horizons of my teenage brain.
I also support the call for Depeche Mode to be recognised as one of the best pop groups of all time.
Arrows (many of them) for the Human’s Lib and Racing.
Arrows (many of them) for the Human’s Lib and Racing. There is something charmingly un-self-conscious about these albums in their post feminist, 80s new man pursuit of general goodness and their overriding bafflement with the injustices of the world…
They are the polar opposite of the slightly tiresome rock ‘n’ roll cool purported by more “credible” acts of the era (The Mary Chain, The Bunnymen, Julian Cope – all of whom I’d like better if they laid off the dark sunglasses and general moodiness). This is pop music at it lightest and if you’re addicted to the dark stuff you’ll hate it.
Moreover, both albums are brimful of exceptional melodies (the keyboard riffs on Natural and Hide and Seek from Human’s Lib, the stirring vocal lines from Wouldn’t it be Good and Dancing Girls from Human Racing)..
Perhaps the most stunning tune of them all is Nik Kershaw’s Bogart. This brave study of the male inferiority complex, is set to a melody which perfectly encapsulates the hopelessness of the song’s lyrics (in which the narrator seeks the advice of Humphrey Bogart in how to win the affections of a girl who is besotted by a rival who excels over our Nik in pretty much every area) .
I am certainly no Kershaw apologist; he tried a similar trick two year’s later with James Cagney and the results were clumsy and over-literal. Bogart and Jones’ Hide and Seek demand to be reappraised as modern pop masterpieces….
The Rolling Stones
have spent their whole career trying to be half as good as The Beatles.
And
they succeeded.
Johnny Marr
and Bernard Butler, despite being touted as great guitarists of the 80s/90s, are simply bedroom strummers compared to the proper guitarists of the 60s and 70s.
And is there anything more inappropriate or oxymoronic than The Edge on the cover of Guitar Player magazine?
Down arrows!! Give me JM and
Down arrows!! Give me JM and BB over any wanky 70's widdler any day :)
You can keep your
effete shoegazers. I'll take a proper guitarist like, say, Gary Moore every time.
Never been impressed with
Never been impressed with people going up and down the scales, it's all about the composition for me. Someone like Johnny Marr could probably play like a "proper" guitarist if they chose too but put a bit more thought into what they are actually playing, and I doubt a conventional guitarist could come up with, say, This Charming Man.
You misunderstand me sir
Always been a fan of the Smiths and Marr's songwriting is beyond reproach.
I suppose my clumsy original post was a dig at the music press who, in an effort to find a new guitar hero for every generation, felt obliged to elevate Marr and his ilk to Clapton-like status, when in fact he was nothing of the sort (nor did he aspire to be).
Also what prompted my gripe was the Bert Jansch 60th birthday concert a few years ago, where both Marr and Butler appeared as guests duetting with the folk guitar legend. It must be said that neither men added much of interest to the proceedings.
Johnny
is a long-standing admirer of Bert Jansch and has acknowledged his huge influence; it was entirely appropriate for him to be there.
Yes, I know
But Marr's style is not really suited to Jansch's material and he seemed to be struggling.
I agree with you
Marr is all about chords, Jansch is all about not playing chords.
Give me.....
A rhythm guitar playing minor chords over some awful self indulgent lead guitar wanking any day.
The moment I hear a guitar solo I'm turning it off.
Oh and by the way, Eric Clapton is really really crap.
I like the sound of that!
Is it available on CD? ;-)
Pink Floyd
were shit with Syd and shitter without
this feels like...
... a video game where zombies keep reappearing that require killing.
I know that it's the point of the game, but You Sir are an ass and I shall horse whip you on the steps to my club.
he may
be an ass but a spot on ass nonetheless, hippy shit.
Billy Joel...
Is a genius. He has 10 times the talent of Brooooce.
**sits back, glad to get that off chest**
The Third Stage by Boston
is one of the greatest American albums of the post-Elvis era.
That statement strikes me as...
more than a feeling.
Andrew Gold's
Never Let Her Slip Away is a fantastic song!
( Sorry Captain Underpants )
China Crisis
really really rock out live.
Most punk rock songs
were at least 2 minutes too long.
Fleetwood Mac's Tusk
Is a brilliant album.
Isn't this accepted knowledge
As supported by the Mighty Boosh and Radiohead.
Abso-bloody-lutely...
Fantastic record.
Too bloody right it is
The best thing the 'Buckingham/Nicks Mac' did and up there with the best that any version of ver Mac ever did.
Might have to search that out
Title track has been going round my head for days now.
Supertramp...
are one of the most unfairly-maligned bands in history and worthy of so much more respect than is normally afforded them. Nobody else sounds like them ("That's because nobody wanted to" - there, preempted that riposte).
Quite right, sir!
Superb band
Nick Cave is a fake
and five minutes in the company of any Frank Zappa fan will be the longest five minutes of your life
Ya got me cobber
I've been using "just for men - jet black for rock stars" since 1988
- Nick Cave
Nick Cave is a fake?
A fake what? Musician? Singer? Songwriter?
The Rolling Stones never made a truly great album
even at their best (on Beggars Banquet obviously) they were 60% great songs, 40% rather arch Country & Western/Blues Pastiche with lousy vocals.
Run!!!!!
Stevie Nicks
is worth a ton of Kate Bush and two tons of PJ Harvey
One in the bush
Is worth two in the hand.
Oasis
were the best band to come out of the Britpop thingy, despite the obvious musical rip-offs and oafish front-bloke.
3 top albums
3 better than OK
1 duffer
All reggae
is pants.
Unless you're sitting on a
Unless you're sitting on a beach with a drink in Jamaica.
With...
...no pants on
and
white.
Jimi Hendrix was at his best when...
he wrote short, sharp pop songs like Foxy Lady and Crosstown Traffic.
Not exactly controversial..
Patrick. Couldn't we generalise this for all acts, ever?
Even Yes/Pink Floyd/King Crimson/Van der Graaf Generator tended to spread things thin on their whole-side-of-an-LP tracks.
Dispensation, maybe, for Mingus and Stravinski, but they weren't pop.
But lots of people really like his way out noodly stuff...
I'm suggesting that his talents were best displayed in a more orthodox pop context.
Two observations on the subject of jazz
Miles Davis recorded a LOT of dreck in his time.
The musical value of any line-up, no matter how otherwise stellar, is greatly reduced by the noodling presence of Don Cherry.
Electronic
The music of Jean Michel Jarre is every bit as thrilling and ground-breaking as Kraftwerk
Maybe, and it's a very interesting point
but Autobahn pre-dated Oxygene by 2 years, and Kraftwerk win on presentation and haircuts.
The suits
Don't forget the suits.
And bicycles
As Q pointed out many many years ago Kraftwerk travelled between gigs in a bogglesome blur of lycrahosen
Beat me to it.
Gaah! I came in to eulogise Jarre. The man is a stone cold genius in my book.