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Completely non music related but.....
Posted by austinplatt on 30 December 2008 - 2:23pm.
... I feel the need to vent. Should Liverpool FC be offering Steven 'Bruiser' Gerrard 'all the support he needs' for being drunk and getting in a fight, or maybe suggesting that such behaviour is a bad thing? Maybe we should be offering the chap who lobbed a bottle into a crowded pub and murdered a young woman 'all the support he needs'. For all we know, he's good at football too?
And relax....
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Now now
Innocent until proven guilty...
Better?
For 'allegedly being drunk and getting in a fight'.
I just think
The time to ask your question is after the verdict, if it gets that far. Of course they'll support him until then - he's too much of a valuable asset - but I'd like to think that most decent employers would be similarly supportive in the same situation. The interesting bit will be how the club react afterwards if it does go to court, and things don't go the way they hope.
Fair enough
I shall watch with interest. I promise my next post will be music related.
As usual the Mail have all the details..
...included a picture of his Baby Bentley parked outside the place. Apparently it was all because the DJ wouldn't play his favourite tune. What could that have been?
I believe
the accused has expressed a fondness for a certain Mr Phil Collins, your honour.
not forgetting...
his alleged liking for The Coldplay
And look who's up the side of that story...
...sandwiched between Linda Lusardi and Anne Diamond (not like that)...
...it's Paul Weller, gutter-drunk with his young new paramour...
...hard to keep up with the youngsters, and for that matter the old 'uns...
Can only be the Goodies
Do do do the funky gibbon!
“What could that have been?” Dakota by the Stereophonics
according to the Liverpool Miscellany I got for Christmas in which the players do a sort of randomizer on their i-pods. Shocking, as you’d expect. Eye Of The Tiger for Pepe Reina, Xavi Alonso picks bloody Stand By Me by Oasis. Danny Agger some Danish metal band. Only Jamie Carragher comes out with head held high: In My Life by Johnny Cash and Waterfall by the Stone Roses (which if you’re going to pick a Roses song is the coolest one to pick, the connoisseur’s choice).
'Saturday Night's Alright
'Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting', perhaps? A cunning ruse to get things back on to music Mr Hepworth.
Music?
I'm quite happy to get as far away from that as you like.
I can feel it coming in the air tonight..
...if there's one thing a Man U fan DJ can't stand it's probably a successful charismatic Scouse footballer. First I heard I thought they'd got him mixed up with Joey Barton as he believes himself to be Steven Gerrard.
"Charismatic"!
If there's one thing Gerrard ISN'T surely its charismatic!
Great player...
(and here speaks a Manchester United fan), but to describe Gerrard as charismatic is like calling Brigitte Bardot (1958 vintage) plain looking.
Charisma...
...is not confined to mere eloquence.
True...
but I still think the word is misapplied to Steven Gerrard.
Wasn't Gerrard
one of the intended recipients of Barton's anti-autobiography jibe "We were sh*t. Here's my book"?
I think this is the guy who'll turn up in court
Disapointed in th FA's response
Don't recall them offering Lee Bowyer the same support. Agreed it was a harsher crime (and that Bowyer, whilst at the time being a great player, was/is a pretty poor human being. With hindsight, the position on Bowyer looked sensible. Why is Gerrard different?
On a related aspect of the strange parallel universe
occupied by hideously overpaid young men who kick footballs for a living, can anyone enlighten me as regards the job qualifications and industry experience required to become a "fingernail technician"?
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
The presumption of innocence (Article 11) is still pretty fundamental in my opinion, as is the rule of law. Gerrard and his friends are not legally permitted to comment as they may prejudice the trial.
However, I guess we live in an age of trial by media and internet blog. This is not a good thing.
I think the predicate for the post was
that the wealthy and valuable might just get preferential treatment from their employers during due process because of that fact, not that anyone was presumed anything other than innocent.
In future..
can we make it a rule that whenever a sports posting is made, the postee comes clean about his/ her sporting allegiance? I am invariably suspicious of anyone sounding off over any issue regarding the Premiership as prejudices often cloud rational judgment.
The parallel between Gerrard and the tragic case of the mother of 3 was ill-judged. Gerrard did not throw a bottle through a window into a bar because he wasn't allowed in. No-one died through having their throat cut by broken glass. Gerrard has been charged with assault and affray. Serious, yes, of course, but not a parallel. Not even close.
The Gerrard incident seems (and yes,I admit, I may be proved wrong in this matter) to have been not unlike many of the incidents that occur in the pubs / clubs that occur across this fair isle most weekends. In many cases the Police will be called and the aggressors prosecuted. The fact that this incident has resulted in a prosecution is testament to their thoroughness. No Lindsey Lohan / Paris Hilton "get out of trouble courtesy of the Police" here, oh no. If one wishes to draw a comparison..why not compare this case with Pete Doherty, but even he has offended more often that Gerrard.
I am a Liverpool Supporter and am exceptionally disappointed that this has happened, but not surprised.Up here in the North-West ( and no-doubt, London) where you have a high concentration of clubs in a relatively condensed geographical area, passions run high and supporters can find themselves socially interracting with players from an opposing side. Men will be men, and if you add alcohol with bravado and stir in the current (media-fuelled?)atmosphere of envy / disgust/ dislike exhibited by many towards Footballers, You have a powder keg scenario-in-waiting.
I admire Gerrard's ability, skill, professionalism and passion but find it very difficult to warm to the man on a personal level. Oliver Kay, a talented writer has this take on events http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool... and he would be amongst the first to condemn Gerrard if this was a regular occurance.
If you are a footballer and you stay out late, "shit happens" as they say and undoubtedly he has some rather rum coves as associates (which a lot of working-class footballers have..this is not Yngling we're talking about), but he does not have a history of this sort of behaviour on or off the pitch(unlike Barton). The man won an MBE. These are not given out to wife-beating alcoholics ( are they?)
I am not blind to the man's faults but would hope for a more level-headed approach to this issue. If he's guilty, then he'll be punished by the Courts, the club (and the FA). That's the Liverpool Way.
Well said Fraser and Grant
The original post's comparison to the killing of the woman hit by the bottle is as preposterous as it is tasteless and offensive.
There have been a couple of good pieces in The Independent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/gerrards-ba...
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/england-sta...
I'd be interested to learn what the Manchester United supporting DJ did. It wouldn't surprise me if he had started "that chant" which certain Everton and Manchester United fans seem to relish.
Certain - but not all...
As an Everton fan, I found the tone and implicit assumption in the Independent that it was inevitably rival (ie Everton) fans' barracking that has set Gerrard off, to be both lazy and ill-informed.
At least the Mail - of all papers - had actually tried to find out some facts and it would appear (from what they have printed) that the incident related to the DJ's refusal to play requests for the Gerrard party, in line with club policy. Nowt to do with fan bias or aggravation at all.
Looking at the wider picture, and whilst not condoning the treatment meted out to Gerrard by the Everton fans, I would also suggest that Phil Neville (for one) gets at least as much vitriol (and punches and phlegm) directed his way...but he never seems to get caught up in incidents like this, does he? Nor the vast majority of professional footballers, come to that.
Assumptions
This is the trouble with speculating about these kind of celeb-based stories. We are often trying these people based on what we assume happened, or what we think might have happened. Unless we know the facts we can't really judge and the facts are hard to verify since we rely on what can be unreliable journalists. Then again does this mean you should not comment at all - clearly sometimes these people will do stuff that's wrong and we can say so, e.g. the likes of Gary Glitter? Wait to see that the law courts say or go by your own personal, direct experience maybe? Otherwise it's just gossip, isn't it?!
I was careful
.. to emphasise "certain". While it is clearly not all Everton and Manchester United fans, it is a sizeable enough contingent to be heard in the ground. It is the worst I have heard and those who join in are beyond contempt. Will you join me in condemning them?
BTW, even though I am a Red, I agree with you about Phil Neville, who has always seemed okay to me (although I'm not sure about his shorter brother). The only problem I have with P Neville is his bizarre own goal against Manchester a while back.
I will indeed...
...but I'm surprised you consider it 'the worst you've heard' in a sport where chants about Munich, Heysel and Hillsborough can still be heard around the country.
I would also suggest that, on a personal level, Sol Campbell takes as much, if not more, abuse from Spurs fans than Stevie G gets from Evertonians.
But that's splitting hairs. The point is that there is no place for such abuse, personal or collective, in the modern game and I for one would never shout such abuse at a professional footballer and would condemn it in others, whatever the colour of their shirt.
Mark Clattenburg is, of course, a completely different case altogether....
Isn't it a bit naive,
in the parallel reality of professional football, to expect anything other than the lowest common denominator of abuse from the terraces, er, seats?
How is "the modern game" different in some way, and when did it start being "modern"? What's more, how can it be that standards of behaviour should be better than at some point in a mythical past?
As an armchair watcher of the occasional Match Of The Day, with no team allegiance of my own, and 30 years since I sat, er, stood, in a First Div, er, Premiership ground (Anfield, as it happens - Leeds lost 1-0) These days I watch the bizarre spectacle that is "the modern game" with something approaching amusement, tinged with sadness that while so much has improved, so much has been lost.
Re-reading....
...not sure I understand myself why I chose to focus on the 'modern' version of the game - whatever that is - now you mention it.
In fact, if anything the abuse between Everton and Liverpool fans (and their respective teams) is probably worse now than it has been at any time I can remember. The days of the 'friendly' derby are now, sadly, long gone.
Thanks Paul
I think the reason I rank it as the worst - and others may disagree - is because it's so personal and spiteful. The chant is directly aimed at him and his family.
The Campbell stuff was also terrible and, for once, it was good to see some action being taken against the perpetraors. About time too.
There's no place for any such abuse in the game (modern or not) or in our society. However, I'll still go and still try to get those idiots out.
Agreed
I love going to Everton (despite the quality of the entertainment served up most of the time) but I hate the Liverpool and Man Utd games with a passion because the atmosphere is just horrible.
Had to smile though at the recent Goodison derby when the Liverpool fan sat three seats to my left got very upset when the Gerrard chants started.....
....this after spending the first ten minutes of the game shouting 'Elephant Man' every time Joleon Lescott touched the ball....
More seriously, the timing of the Anfield derby (coming just before the trial) worries me and I suspect that the abuse will reach new heights (or rather depths).
The worst chant has to be...
...the one directed at Arsene Wenger by just about every team. I don't know what the Gerrard one is mind you. Any links available?
The irony of it
The timing of the Merseyside derby is pretty terrible and I fear it may be as you suspect. Not sure how much the players really dislike one another though - Arteta and Alonso, for example, are big mates.
I think the whole Gerrard thing has to do with him being a multi-millionaire footballer from Huyton. As we head deeper into recession, no-one has much sympathy with the super rich who are in the public eye, whether it be footballers, Jonathan Ross, or two smooth-talking ex-Etonians waiting to take over the running of the country.
Happy New Year!
Michael Duberry
got terrible abuse from Cardiff fans at Reading on boxing day (when they weren't invading the pitch!) - most of it harking back to the Bowyer/Woodgate incident, it was relentless but he handled it well.
It makes me think if Gerrard wasn't playing for a team at the top of the table, one of the country's best midfielders and all that IF he is found guilty of the alledged incident (sounds like an episode of Have I Got News For You) just what would Liverpool do? It reminds me of Newcastle and Barton, they needed him at the time so were extremely lenient with him, probably wouldn't have been so lenient if it was a youth player or someone they wanted to offload.
In my defense
To answer the question regarding my allegiance, I’m a Liverpool supporter. That’s probably why I was so annoyed by Gerrard’s behavior. I doubt he’ll be playing as well now that he has this hanging over him.
With regards to the comparison of Gerrard with McNulty (bottle throwing thug), I stand by that. My mistake is making the comparison before the facts are know. However, the point I was making is that drunken violence shouldn’t be accepted as normal behavior. I have no doubt that it was not McNulty’s intention to kill anyone. Driving through the centre of London on Boxing day evening my wife and I witnessed a similar incident of a inebriated youth throwing a bottle at doormen, apparently with less serious results. If you are going to drink too much and then use force to get your own way, the results are unpredictable. In Southport a man lost his tooth, in Manchester a woman lost her life. However, I believe the initial crimes are commensurate; an alcohol induced petulant and violent response to not getting your own way. If we don’t condemn such behavior we run the risk of more unintentional deaths. I think Liverpool FC would have done better to say nothing (and maybe myself too) until the facts are known. By saying what they did so soon it implies that they don’t really think the offence is so bad. An attitude that some young men may carry with them when they go drinking at the weekend.
Surely the whole point of this
is that if he wasnt a celebrity we wouldnt even know it had happened. It happens every week in every town in the country. Unfortunately our society is sick probably beyond successful treatment.This is just one more example of the inability of people to turn the other cheek and one more example of thuggish behaviour. Ironically Stevie G will most likely get a stiffer penalty than the man on the street so the posters argument is to my mind flawed.
Gerrard gets away with meer-der...
...on the pitch, so no-one should be surprised if he gets away with this too (even if found guilty by the courts). There are plenty of links on YouTube to (1) his diving and (2) his consistent dereliction of duty in an England shirt.
I actually believe England A-listers like Gerrard, Rooney, Terry and Lampard are above football 'laws' and possibly civil/criminal laws too if ever they breached them.
Ahem...
...In all fairness it can´t be all that difficult to get into a fight in Liverpool. ( ducks, as bottles fly...
Accrington back their man
The point was made above about how Gerrard would have been treated by his club had he not been such a big name. How about Accrington Stanley?
http://www.accrington.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=137446
Good piece by James Lawton on the social dilemmas modern footballers face:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawto...