Entertainment For Lively Minds
Commiserations to all Celtic fans
Just got back from a great European night at FC Utrecht. I'm firmly of the belief that Neil Lennon is 100% to blame for what happened tonight. As I wrote earlier on another thread (Hopes for the football season)just after the draw was made:
As a fan of FC Utrecht I will be hoping that we can stuff the words of Neil Lennon back down his throat. He hasn't heard of our players? What like the Dutch international goalkeeper, one of the stars of the last African Cup of Nations, a couple of great young players already called up for their countries and a large selection of other internationals.
At least he's done the pre match talk for Utrecht. To quote Jim Telfer "They don't rate us, they don't respect us". Celtic are definitely favourites but Utrecht will be a lot better than anyone they face in the league this season bar Rangers.
Since then, I've seen interviews with Lennon in which it was clear that he had never seen our players, had no idea how we played and had even less of an idea of what a match is like here in Utrecht. Surely a great club like Celtic can do better than Neil Lennon....
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here we go again
Excellent post, sir.
Where do we start on what is wrong with Scottish football?
Lennon's comments were pretty much reflected in the Scottish press. Utrecht were written off after the first leg even when it was pretty obvious that:
a)they should have scored at least a couple of away goals in the first leg, and
b) their coach clearly had the tactical measure of his opponent.
I fear that it will get worse before it gets better.
Fair play, Simon
Haven't seen it yet, and probably won't.
I think the hubris of the Scottish big two and the press that follows them is at fault for writing off Utrecht.
The hubris was perhaps understandable to a few seasons ago when Celtic (& Rangers) could still punch their weight by attracting decent players.
Now with the financial fall out in the Scots game, neither can attract top flight European players and the result is for all to see.
I think Lennon is a young manager and is still learning and will hopefully be given a few years to find his feet. It's going to be a long cycle of not winning anything before the club is rebuilt.
Don't start me on the inequalities of a club with regular 50,000+ attendances not being able to keep up with those with only 10-12,000 gates, deep pocketed owners and access to massive credit.
So well done Utrecht, we're not looking forward to the new season.
er...
do Utrecht have "deep pocketed owners" and access to "massive credit"? really?
OK
My football hatred is known. But my dad likes celtic. What happened?
2-0 up from the home leg
Humped 4-0 away and could have been much worse according to my snout.
Adjectives being used start with abject and the manager is already taking full responsibility.
Accusations of complacency and tactical ineptitude in Europe, a brand new team more cut price than the last bought to reduce debts etc.
It's the predictable start of a modern day Celtic manager's tenure.
This time, despite him being much beloved of the fans due to his life long love of the club, not many are holding out much hope of success.
*sighs*
Good luck for the next round
Mind you, with Celtic's record lately - out of the Champions League already, and don't mention Ross County (oops) - as well as an untried team and all of Paddy's points too, I don't think there would have been much hubris flying around in the Celtic camp and certainly not disrespect to Utrecht , except maybe from the numpties in the Scottish press. It will take a lot of rebuilding before Celtic can feel saucy about Utrecht , or anyone else.
Doods, on a totally unrelated point
Are you OK with .avi files to watch TV programmes?
If so, I have an 8gb memory stick with your name written all over it - as well as the word 'Treme'.
Yes, I think so
That will work on a PC , obviously, and while it is a while since I did it I have toys which should be able to cut discs from it too. Thanks very much again, looking forward to it. See you at the Kro.
Thinking on
I shall endeavour to source a similarly sized stick and do swapsies on the night. That sound sensible ?
I think Lennon
may rank as the most insane managerial appointment of modern times.
He's a genuinely great guy in my book. Likes a drink, can be an arsehole but has done more to de-stigmatise mental ill-health (my professional interest) in the poorest areas of Scotland than anyone else ever. I like him a lot.
However, his appointment is like Stuart Pierce as England manager. Or Sean Connery as Scotland manager. Just cos you like something doesent mean you can objectively manage it. Breast beating protestaions of loyalty weren't a feature of Stein,Shankly or Busbys reigns at their clubs. They were repected and no plyers called them anything other then Mr Stein,Mr Busby or Mr Shankly. Lennon's players call him Lenny.
The league is Rangers to lose.
Big Jock was a long time ago, alas
I think the times of Jock and his less decorated peers have gone - the informal relationship is now part of modern management. FFS Murinho was texting Terry and Cole before last year's semi (or was it quarter).
Also there's not enough players at Celtic who even remember Lennon as 'Lenny'.
I agree it's Rangers to lose, but no-one should doubt Lennon's intelligence and ability to learn. He was a bright lad academically at school and will learn quickly and he's as tough as nails.
I think the club's hope (and mine) is that the combination of being a bright lad with great experience, in all levels of football, and with the residual influence of O'Neill (who is a compellingly similar character in terms of background and playing ability) that Lennon will become a great Celtic manager.
I think Celtic needs a 'Celtic' manager again, after Strachan and Mowbray and wee Vim and Doc Joe, it needs someone who will stick with a project and build from the floor up.
I only wish Tam Burns could have done it, God rest him.
He's a divisive character in Scotland, but for Irish Celtic fans we all hope that he does the job well and can hold his head up.
I'd bate the bake of myself in the middle of Liverpool like a fool on prime time TV for the viewing public's pleasure just to see Lambert get the job after him though.
A New Hope ?
I do get cranky about the whole "Celtic-minded" narrative, but Lennon is the man in the seat and I think he has the bones to make something frisky happen and deserves a good run at it. Last night notwithstanding, there have been a some signs that the new boys are becoming a team and can be something you can bear to watch for pleasure, because the last couple of years have stretched the meaning of the word "entertainment".
Burns is gone, sadly, and yes, I suppose a divisive figure with the lumpen element. On the other hand McCoist is a proper mensch : everyone knows he loved the man Burns. In a ideal world they would both thrive, occasionally having to tell some of their own supporters to fuck off, but then produce something worth yelling for, and raise the disappointing state of Scottish football, but that Celtic would still prevail, obviously.
(I fear this may a hopelessly romantic over-reaction to this week's James MacMillan-inspired derangements.)
Keep it coming
Pure comedy gold. "Shellik minded"? You need "football minded".
The saddest thing for you lot is you threw away the chance to bury Rangers once and for all when you forced Strachan out because he wasn't "Celtic Minded".
If you ask me Lennon's signing policy has all the hallmarks of a kid in a sweet shop, "I'll have wan o' these and wan of these , oh and that as well please". No strategy just p*ssing money down the toilet. If I was the board I wouldn't give him another penny until he kicks that shower into shape.
I think most signings have
I think most signings have been Bosmans, frees or loans. He's spent about eight million in total and much of that has been on established internationals.
Granted the big Swedish lad at the back struggled last night and the defence issue hasn't been solved yet and his default setting of firing McCourt on when chasing is overly simplistic.
It's the second season of clear outs and stability has to be found - consistently decent performances would be a jump from the cluelessness of Mowbray who got rid of swathes of the playing staff, rightly or wrongly. Let Lennon get rid of Mowbray's signings and blend his own squad.
My 'Celtic minded' point was that in a time of crisis, which has to be looming soon, it's best to turn to those with the best interests of the club at heart - just as Rangers did with Walter and McCoist. Long term stability counts for more than a couple of seasons chasing European success.
As for Strachan, it's an easy get out for all concerned that he was 'hounded out'. He has no track record of staying for more than four or five years and he had done his shift. And it was the shift that was needed - getting the debt down by more than £30m and achieving some success - but he was never going to be a longer term solution.
Of course, if the popular press is to be be believed this week, the real problem is that all Celtic fans are terrorism supporters who need to go back to their Catholic roots.
What Rangers did when the LeGuen thing went
tits up was to recruit a manager who had experience, true he happened to be a Rangers man. McCoist will have served a three year apprenticeship before he takes the job. I can't help thinking that making Lennon the manager was pandering to the base elements of the support, surely Lambert would have been a better candidate?
Hands off
Paul Lambert? Manager of the mighty Norwich City?
Leave off. Please. Really, please, leave him at Carrow Road. Or I might cry.
Neil Lennon
Neil Lennon - Celtic Manager
It doesn't even look right
>
Another reason why the 'Champions' League should be re-branded 'The Safety-Net' League.
Not having a dig at Celtic per se but should any team after failing in the 'Champions' League really get a second chance in the Europa League anyway?
I'm sure such luxury informs the performance of England's losers when they have to 'do it now' (i.e v USA or v Germany).
In the 'Champions' League they can always 'do it next Wednesday', or 'the Wednesday after that, or 'the Wednesday after that', or 'the Wednesday after that'.....and, if they fail on all those occasions, they can still qualify!
Champions league V European cup
I realise things wont change, the big clubs will never let the pot of gold that is CL football year in year out change , unless it is to there own advantage (Turkeys voting for Christmas etc)
What I liked about the European Cup, (& yes, I know my age is showing by calling it that), to me it had a purity of intent, national champions ONLY (Plus the holders), 2 legged, straight knockout, which meant it all about performing ON THE NIGHT.
No second chances, no EUFA cup safety net.
BTW, am I the only person who thinks that the same old tired CL fixture list is actually dull ?? I think EUFA should consider calling the bluff on the big clubs. Let them all breakaway, after a couple of years of, (in my mind ), what will very quickly be seen as high profile friendlies, all very samey same, it will be seen for what it is, half a season of meaningless chaff, with much the same 8 clubs in at the sharp end.
I accept becoming European champion (& then retaining the trophy) is MUCH harder in this era, & the days of all 11 players & manager coming from within 10 miles of the clubs stadium ( Celtic 1967), well that is long behind us, but I honestly believe that in this era of "Carlos Kickaball" kissing the badge, it cannot mean the same, well, maybe to the bean counters.
A lot of discussion was held here during the recent world cup, I still think what I said then applies now.
The media big them up, OK players that had a lousy world cup are once again "world class"
Did anyone really doubt that Mascherano would leave Liverpool ? It was (to me simple way of thinking) when he was leaving, not if.
During the recent England friendly (Hungary IIRC??), Gerrard had a decent game, Gary Neville in the commentary said words to the effect of "Stevie Gerrard has just shown that he can produce when it matters"
Why didnt the commentator pick him up ??
"You mean an unwanted, meaningless pre season friendly as opposed to the World cup match against Germany Gary" ?
They wont, because they are all feeding from the same trough.
Football needs the media more than ever before, & the media cant survive without football. To see where & how things would be without serious TV money, take a look at the once mighty Glasgow Celtic.
No offence intended, I am a long distance Everton fan, & they went, through a combination of circumstances , from potential 1986 European cup winners, to relegation fodder in 6/7 years.
Sorry if I have rambled somewhat. I do have strong feelings, & I honestly think that the big clubs will just pull the drawbridge up & wave 2 fingers at those left behind.
Rant over (For now )
A poisoned chalice
August 26, 2009: knocked out of the Champions League by Arsenal.
December, 2009: knocked out of the Europa League.
August 8, 2010: knocked out of the Champions League by Braga
August 26, 2010: knocked out of the Europa League by Utrecht
To think that, as a Norwich fan, I was ever worried by the thought of Paul Lambert moving to Celtic Park. Who in their right mind would want to take on a recent record like this with no real finances?