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Citius, Altius, Fortius. . . Bloatius

Archie Valparaiso's picture

PhotobucketDown the farm - Glastonbury now has more people working security than there were punters at the legendary (and free) Glastonbury Fayre in 1971.

At the match - Manchester United won the then-First Division championship in 1966-67 by calling on a total of 19 footballers over the course of the year. Last season, they had 46 registered first-team players. (And came second.)

On the bedside table - John Le Carré's The Spy Who Came In from the Cold is 232 pages long. Stieg Larsson's The Girl Who Played with Fire is 602.

At a cinema near you - 2001: A Space Odyssey, a film that covers millions of miles of space, aeons of time and multiple dimensions of reality, is ten minutes shorter than The Dark Knight, a film about a man who dresses up as a bat.

On the turntable - The last track on Bruce Springsteen's Born to Run fades out 38 minutes and 23 seconds after the first track started. If we include the two "bonus tracks", U2's latest studio release, No Line on the Horizon, comes in at slightly over an hour.

On the box - The Singing Detective needed only six episodes to tell its story. Lost took a hundred and twenty-one.

Pick whatever popular-cultural item you like, and it's almost certain to be longer, fatter and more unjustifiably unwieldy than its counterpart was back when, as the great sage Taupin put it, "rock was young". How long can the bloat-out continue? Should it? Can it, even?

15

Though I largely agree with you

One example does not a watertight case make. I'm sure that in ten minutes, I could come up with a list of counter-examples to all those you mention above (maybe not with festivals or football teams though).

I'm sure it's been mentioned on a podcast before - or maybe I read it somewhere else - but the trend for albums to be longer now is due to the space available to them. When CDs first came out, the perception was that people would want to feel they were getting their money's worth, so albums were "padded out" to better fit the 72 minutes available.

0
Joe R | 22 November 2010 - 11:32am

Really?

Point taken about CD lengths (although double albums were always available before, but seldom taken advantage of). But just look at the pulp novels on your shelves, for example. The average now for any bog-standard thriller is probably about 450 pages these days. Now look at the Raymond Chandlers, Ian Flemings and Graham Greenes - they're almost all under 250.

The X-Factor lasts for hours, over two nights. Opportunity Knocks and New Faces were done and dusted in half an hour... and on and on the bloat-out goes.

0
Archie Valparaiso | 22 November 2010 - 11:44am

I'm not disagreeing with you

and I think the trend you describe is right. I'm just saying that one example doesn't prove your theory, because I could come up with counter-examples.

Forget it, I'm being a certain kind of Monday morning pedant.

Quick note though - what about communication? Back in the day: letters with proper vocabulary and all that. Today: 140 character tweets and text messages largely devoid of vowels.

1
Joe R | 22 November 2010 - 11:49am

Monday morning pedant

(... are we still allowed to say): TMFTL

0
man.of.soup | 22 November 2010 - 1:28pm

Your bog standard thriller

of which I am not a reader does not necessarily have more words in it just because it has more pages.
When I was on a family holiday my brother was getting through a lot of these books and I looked inside and the double (triple) spacing and justification of the pages made it so there were very few words on the page.
I think this is just a marketing ploy to trick people into thinking they are getting value for money whereas the content is actually pretty thin on the ground.

0
jimmyshoes01 | 22 November 2010 - 2:36pm

You have pinned down something...

... which has been driving me mad for years.

Lets put it into more context.
War and Peace as directed by King Vidor 208 minutes. Long, but its an adaptation of War and Peace.
Harry Potter and Deathly Hallows pt 1 148 minutes. However it is part one of two adaptations of an already over long book.

My theory is simple. With so much stuff available either for free (or 2nd hand and extremely cheap online) certain people with a track record of producing hits, whether in books, films or music, are indulged because the quality doesn't matter as much as the profit. That has always been the case but as the profit margins of almost every creative industry have fallen to the extent that they have over the past few years absolutely no one is going to take a red pencil to the a work which, good bad or indifferent, will be a guaranteed money maker.

Hepworth told an instructive story on one of the podcasts once. Thriller was getting its first playback at the record company, everyone was excited, sure it was a hit, but Quincy Jones said it needed more work and Billie Jean and Beat It duly were written. Given that Off The Wall was a big hit previously, the chances that Thriller wouldn't sell were pretty remote. But would anyone nowadays take a decision like that? Hold back a guaranteed hit because it needs more work? I doubt it.

1
ganglesprocket | 22 November 2010 - 11:37am

Isn't Harry Potter a special case though

(Firstly full disclosure I've not read the books or seen more than clips of the films* )but aren't the films scene for scene remakes of the books to satisfy the fans of the books. It was felt that changing a single word of the books would be heresy so as the books got longer the films did too. Sadly for t'old Leo Tolstoy his fans don't dress up as cavaliers or courtesans and queue outside of WH Smith's everytime he knocks out a new novel!
* I have played with the lego!

0
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 12:12pm

Not seen the new film...

... but in his review Mark Kermode said that scenes were actually put into this new film which weren't in the book.

I have read the book though, and for a huge amount of pages the action is just three characters squabbling in a tent. In my head it was about a third of the book, but it was a long time ago that I read it. It backs up Archie's point that pulp fiction is getting stupidly long for no good reason. I'd say it also backs up my point that no one was willing to take a red pencil to JK's deathless prose.

0
ganglesprocket | 22 November 2010 - 12:18pm

In Potter's case...

...I suspect no-one had the power by book 5 onwards to say to Jo Rowling: "Bloody hell, this is much too long for a kids' book. It needs a bloody good edit."

0
JoLean | 22 November 2010 - 9:13pm

Or, indeed, any book

It's the only one I gave up on. After 200 pages of nothing happening, I decided that life was too short.

0
Lucas Hare | 22 November 2010 - 10:48pm

"At the match"

Fourteen years after the season that you refer to, Aston Villa won the 1980-81 English First Division title using only FOURTEEN players in the process. An aastonishing feat.

0
duco01 | 22 November 2010 - 11:36am

Celtic

Is there a football equivalent of Godwin's law when it comes to nostalgic reverie?

Celtic won the European Cup in 1967 with a team all born within 30 miles of Parkhead.

0
sitheref2409 | 22 November 2010 - 10:48pm

Ah the Italian Beatles

Never did catch on. Not the same after Bloatius replaced Detritus and Citius copped off with Yuki.

Nevermind, there will be a deleuxe boxed-set available soon with demo recordings, discarded tracks and a DVD of the falling out and meeting with their accountants. Christmas is coming? Oh so it is.

0
Beany | 22 November 2010 - 11:39am
Patrick Crowther | 22 November 2010 - 1:49pm

Same With DVDs

As for football there are now more matches because of the Champions League/Europa League and the fitness of the players makes the games faster and more exhausting, leading to more injuries.

Two of my favourite albums of this year were fairly brief, so although I agree with the general point there are always exceptions

0
MrRadio | 22 November 2010 - 11:40am

Maybe this is one reason why we listen less to albums

and more to tracks.

A 40 minute LP is digestable, complete with a half-time break. A 70-minute sprawl is perhaps too long for regular sustained concentration.

On a related note, what about live albums?

Back in the day EL&P, Yes, Santana, The Band all released triple live sets which were regarded as the ultimate indulgence. 6 x 20 minute sides = two hours.

The Grateful Dead (and I'm sure many others) now habitually release 3 CD sets of complete single shows. Running time? Well over 3 hours and they've released dozens of the buggers. 3CDs equates to a 5LP set - 10 sides! I can only think of Springsteen who released a 5 LP live set onto the mass market.

I guess the triples of the past were mainstream releases, expected to sell in large numbers and chart. Today, they're collectors items for obsessives, sold over the Interweb.

0
stimpy | 22 November 2010 - 11:50am

In 1978, Keith Jarrett

released a 10-LP live boxed set onto the mass market.
It's this, "The Sun Bear Concerts"

...and I'm listening to it at the moment.

0
duco01 | 22 November 2010 - 12:04pm

Mass market? Hardly chart fodder though, was it

and I bet it wasn't available at WH Smiths. I guess that's what I meant by mass market.

0
stimpy | 22 November 2010 - 12:18pm

Yeah

You make the jump from protobionts to prokaryotes and before you know it, large multicellular organisms are wandering around complaining about U2 and Harry Potter ... complexity, eh?

5
Glenbervie | 22 November 2010 - 12:05pm

In Music In The Download Age The Track Is King

A certain paper when reviewing albums tells you which tracks to download from the album rather than buying the whole album and because of the ipod and itunes people compile their own playlists of their favourite tracks.
Given this freedom in the era of The White Album, for example,how many people would have downloaded Revolution Number 9,Wild Honey Pie etc ? although there is more bloat there is also more choice which negates this to some extent.
In short, some albums are worth buying in full, not many though, with others it's better to cherry pick the best tracks from them but it's all personal choice, and spotify clouds the issue further since it gives you even greater choice I only download tracks I want to play on my ipod now.

0
MrRadio | 22 November 2010 - 12:06pm

Dumplings

have irrefutably got smaller. I blame Health & Safety, or that Jamie bloke maybe. Personally I love a big fat lump of floury suet in my stew.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 22 November 2010 - 12:17pm

speak for yourself

it's fluffy pillows of loveliness O'clock at our house!

0
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 12:32pm

Here too,

but try buying a meal with dumplings in a bistro! They look like overcooked new potatoes. It's a disgrace. A dumpling should threaten imminent cardiac collapse due to, as you put it, fluffy loveliness, or it's failed.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 22 November 2010 - 12:47pm

it's these meat fed young'uns

they think the bits of stewing beef are are stars of a stew not the gravy and thier eternal suety foes the dumplings.

0
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 12:50pm

Eternal suety foes

Three more fr... ah, forget it.

2
Joe R | 22 November 2010 - 12:51pm

Chocolate bars have been

geting smaller over the years. What is in an annoyance in most cases becomes downright offensive in the case of (the once aptly named) Wagon Wheels

0
STD | 22 November 2010 - 4:40pm

Are you in the Home Counties, where delicacy rules the day?

Last time I looked, the Mars and KitKat bars in my local shop (yes) were absolutely huge. Were they trucker specials or something?

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 22 November 2010 - 5:36pm

I think what you're talking about

are the new "chunky" kit kats etc. These, and large mars/ snickers bars are priced differently.
It may be an optical illusion caused by changes in my own dimensions but I'm sure the bog standard mars bar of 1980 was larger than its counterpart in 2010. Consider also the curly wurly - in former days this could almost have been employed as a frame for a climbing plant and now...?

0
STD | 22 November 2010 - 8:49pm

Mars bars are smaller

Remember when "king size" was replaced by "the big one"? It wasn't just renamed, they were smaller. And the standard mars bar got smaller in 2008 if wikipedia is to be believed.

0
Malc | 22 November 2010 - 10:55pm

There was a time, perhaps during the King Size era,

when Mars bars had "Biggest Bar Ever" printed on the wrapper.

I used to wonder how they made sure every bar off the line was a tiny bit bigger than the previous one.

0
stimpy | 23 November 2010 - 10:17am

Curly Wurly

My mate John bought one of the very first Curly Wurly bars when he was on holiday in the Lake District; upon opening it, he took it back to the shop as it was 'full of holes'.

As for me, I can't even think the words "Curly Wurly" without hearing Terry Scott, the overgrown schoolboy, saying them.

0
epigone | 23 November 2010 - 10:33am

What about Mars "Giant"?

There are lots like this now, only they changed the name from "giant", which suggests the consumer will end up wheezing around like a big fat wobblebottom, to "duo" which sounds cute and dainty.

0
Fazackerly | 26 November 2010 - 6:08pm

I remember my old Commodore 64

Would be ready to use as soon as you switched it on.

25 years later, Windows 7 takes about 30 seconds to boot up and utilizes 16GB of hard disk space. And the 30 seconds is a noticeable improvement on previous Windows versions. Progress eh?

0
Brookster | 22 November 2010 - 12:17pm
stimpy | 22 November 2010 - 12:22pm

Yep, rushing home

from school to play donkey kong on our dragon 32 easily took most of the time until tea for it to load (assuming it didn't crash mid way through).

0
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 12:35pm

True

Although I do remember splashing out on the International Soccer cartridge, which -- of course -- booted instantly.

0
Brookster | 22 November 2010 - 12:33pm

Sigh......

then

then

1
DogFacedBoy | 22 November 2010 - 12:41pm

Jet Set Willy!

Happy Days. Hours of my life lost to Manic Miner

0
sitheref2409 | 22 November 2010 - 10:44pm

Unfinishable symphony

Maybe this was only with the Speccy version, but the original Jet Set Willy was unfinishable because of an almost Faustian bug on the very last level, so if and when you arrived there through legendary 'leet skillz' that was the end of that (man, imagine the number of Kempston joysticks launched against the wall when that happened!)

Whereas, of course, these days whether you're playing on PC / console / mobile device, you can receive patches to such glitches toot sweet (or even faster).

Agree with you Si about Manic Miner - never could get past the Solar Power Plant level mind! Mentions in dispatches for Jetpac and Atic Atac. Amazing to think what was achievable with just 48Kb of memory; the forthcoming Gran Turismo 5 on the PS3 will require a 10 gig install, and that's not even the full game.

BR
FT

0
Freaky Trigger | 22 November 2010 - 11:51pm

Yes Jet Set Willy was

unfinishable unless you "poke'd" it. Like this

0
DogFacedBoy | 23 November 2010 - 12:05am
Glenbervie | 23 November 2010 - 12:13pm

Absolutely,

one reason given by the Booker judges for not giving William Trevor the prize for Love and Summer is because the book was "too slight" (i.e - 200 or so pages compared to Wolf Hall's 600+). The reason was stupid at the time and gets no better with the year that's passed. Trevor should have won it. Memo to publishers - better editors, literary merit is not judged by weight and how are you supposed to read bloody arthritic inducing doorstop books anyway ? Also, how many times do you hear football managers bleating on about "I need more players" and then never using them or selling them on at a loss (that would be you - O'Leary and Ridsdale). However, just to contradict myself - Cinema Paradiso (the director's cut and longer than the originally released version) is imeasurably better than the cinema version.

0
Francis Barry-Walsh | 22 November 2010 - 12:29pm

A different kind of bloat - 8 bass tracks

I recently bought a copy of Apple's Logic Audio software. They include three records which were produced using it. Now, I knew that the use of digital technology has greatly increased the number of tracks and effects that can be used, but it was only when I looked at these examples on the screen, that I realised how far it had gone. Spaceman by The Killers has 81 tracks. There are for example 8 bass tracks, mostly playing simultaneously. Do you really hear them, or is it just a general texture? If a couple were dropped would you notice?

By contrast, Kind of Blue was recorded on three tracks, with 7 microphones (2 for the drums and one each for the other players.)

It's a pleasant enough song, but if you'd told me before I'd heard it that there were 81 tracks, I think I would have expected something as complex as The Rite of Spring.

0
Melville | 22 November 2010 - 1:05pm
Bob | 22 November 2010 - 1:11pm

this might explain a lot...

either about the loudness wars, or that I'm a clueless numpty when it comes to iPods (cf the quicktime thread elsewhere).

I like Day and Age, by the Killers. It's immediate, and punchy, and a great one for listening to in the car when one's in a certain mood.

Along with all my other albums, I've ripped it for my iPod. Last week, for the first time, I listened to it on headphones, with nice midrange Sennheiser bud thingies.

It sounds fucking horrible. I mean, distorted. It quite literally causes my ears to hurt. It's ripped at the normal bitrate I use for everything, and I swear to God (and i'm no audiophile), it's impossible to listen to.

(Folk who are not fans of The Killers are heartily encouraged to pounce upon the comment 'it's impossible to listen to' and expound on that with a wry aside)

0
ivan | 22 November 2010 - 3:49pm

Football bloat..

Man U. 1988-89 average home gate: About 37,000

Last season: about 75,000

Turnover 1988-89: No idea. Can't find it anywhere. It wouldn't have been a huge amount.

Turnover last year £286m

I wouldn't call this bloating. I'd call it success. Same as with Glasto.

Elsewhere, though, Archie's got a good point. I think phones and computers have caused the problem - the idea that something should contain absolutely everything you might need, plus a load more just to be sure.

0
Lenny Law | 22 November 2010 - 1:41pm

but surely phones

combining the functions of walkman, camera, gps, web server, pedometer,games console, torch and erm phone is compaction. We can disucss if you need to carry all or any of these things but having them in a small package is a physical reduction.

1
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 1:46pm

Success at any price?

I would call what has happened bloating rather than success. Take the merch racket. Time was when a Manchester United shirt wasn't just not personalised (no names on the back and not even fixed squad numbers - I saw George Best play as No. 7, 8, 10 and 11 in the same season), it was actually just a generic Umbro red shirt with white collar and cuffs. Liverpool and Nottingham Forest wore the exact same shirt; all that differed was the badge sewn on the chest. Compare that with today, when if you want to wear the same shirt as even a Manchester United bit player, say Macheda, it'll set you back £67.94. And next year it'll be a different design completely.

The club currently has over 500 full-time staff, apparently (1,200 on match days). Somehow Matt Busby managed to make do with a trainer (the bald bucket-and-sponge guy), a part-time physio who had his own private practice, a couple of groundsmen, a boot boy and the lady who came in on Mondays to clean the changing-rooms.

But is the football any more entertaining now? Is it? Is it really?

0
Archie Valparaiso | 22 November 2010 - 2:17pm

so who sold the pies?

and organised the pissing in your neighbour's pocket and passing small lads over your head rota?
eeeh..I can remember when it was all Anfields round here...

2
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 2:28pm

Sir Matt himself...

cornered a very lucrative sideline. After home wins, he paid a posse of local urchins half a crown each to scour the terraces and collect all the flat caps that had been tossed into the air with shouts of "Huzzah!", which he then sold on to an acquaintance who had a stall on Tib Street market. Over the years he earned so much he was able to buy an 18" Baird television with the proceeds.

4
Archie Valparaiso | 22 November 2010 - 2:47pm

Didn't he also buy a teasmade

by arranging collection of the after effects of the home ends synchronised halftime hacking cough break, the gloopy expirations of which formed the basis of the "cow gum" glue popular in schools at the time?

1
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 2:55pm

When I were a lad, you pissed down a copy of a rolled up

Liverpool Echo on the Kop to save wetting the bloke in front of you.

0
stimpy | 22 November 2010 - 2:56pm

that's because you were reet posh

hang on this may be part of another post...

0
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 3:01pm

Did anyone say Sunday papers?

So bloated I've stopped buying. Too much filler, not enough meat.

2
Five-Centres | 22 November 2010 - 1:52pm

when it comes to bloat Pizzas

tick every box.
Time was there about 4 pizzas playing on the theme of ham, cheese,olives,mushrooms and pineapple oh and folded over.
Nowadays ever in the more restrianed Uk (hello you crazy yanks and your oreo pizza) that lot would't make the stuffing for the crust let alone the topping. And then there's the size....

1
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 2:14pm

and, technically, 'folded over' isn't a pizza

It's a calzone isn't it?

0
stimpy | 22 November 2010 - 3:17pm

Oh I don't know anymore

it's like mexican food a branch of origami just with a side order of dough balls. I mean Dean Martin seems to think Pizzas are "pies" and not just fancy cheese on toasts I give up it was all Gracey Fields round here when I were a lad.

2
Chris G | 22 November 2010 - 3:24pm

I could have sworn that Calzone

was a notorious Sicilian hit-man, but maybe I shouldn't make such accusa...

(p-thwutt)

(Thud)

3
Vulpes Vulpes | 22 November 2010 - 5:38pm

A calzone

is a wi-fi area on the London Underground

Sorry, been listening to too much I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue lately

0
DogFacedBoy | 22 November 2010 - 3:22pm

Martin Scorsese

Quality has declined whilst most of his movies regularly clock up three hours.
Same with James Cameron. Terminator was only 100mins....Avatar...oh god.

0
Charlie Gordon | 22 November 2010 - 3:38pm

My CD of the year

Shelby Lynne's Tears, Lies and Alibis clocks in at a very neat 37' 37".
Not that I disagree with your general point, although I do think more and more artists are realising that 40 odd minutes of pure high quality music is better than that plus 30 minutes of filler.

0
Carl Parker | 22 November 2010 - 6:46pm

The best example of this, I think...

...is the one that Time Out pointed out in their TV review of Annie Hall, some time in the 1990s. The review highlighted the scene (it's not on YouTube, sorry) where Alvy Singer can't focus on Alison Porchnik, so distracted is he by the possibility that John F. Kennedy (47 years ago today, kids) was the subject of a conspiracy, as evidenced by the presence of a second gunman; leading to the immortal line, "You're using this conspiracy theory to avoid sex with me!" Anyway, the point was that Woody Allen took about a minute to make the same point as the entire plot of Oliver Stone's three hour JFK.

Here's the dialogue:

http://anyclip.com/annie-hall/jfk-conspiracy/

0
Lucas Hare | 22 November 2010 - 7:02pm

the book comparison is a little off

if we compare like for like, the current Penguin printing of The Spy Who Came In From The Cold is 272 pages according to Amazon, while the latest novel from the TTSSH is 320 pages. Longer yes, but not by any significant margin.

0
maggieloveshopey | 22 November 2010 - 9:17pm

But then ...

These days some things are far more direct, efficient and useful.

Poor old J R Hartley wouldn't have had to stagger geriatrically around the bookshops of Guildford anxiously trying to find his stupid book before he dies of pointlessness.

You know how long you have to wait for your train/bus/tube. This used to be a mystery (particularly to BR/LT employees).

Cinemas are much more comfortable.

Businesses no longer require you to write a letter. Even if putting it in writing is required, an email takes mere moments - not 2 days.

Missing a TV programme or a match doesn't mean that you may never see
it again.

Fathers are now present at the birth of their children.

Pubs don't close at stupid times.

0
Austin | 26 November 2010 - 2:21am

Businesses...

... no longer require you to write a letter.
Not if you've got a complaint or an ever so slightly unusual situation.
I won't bore you with the detail of our travails with TV Licensing a few years back. We can't have been the first couple in the country where a TV was bought by one partner (me) but the licence was in the other's name (Mrs P). E-mails. Scans. Photocopies. Letters. Phone calls. All were employed to try and get this simple matching of my name to my wife's and it took months. All the while they are threatening to prosecute.
That's not to mention Virgin Media and the hours of my life wasted trying to sort them out.

0
Carl Parker | 26 November 2010 - 2:09pm

Call centres

Instead of Rawalpindi, round here you get to talk to Tegucigalpa, Honduras. But the experience is in every respect identical.

0
Archie Valparaiso | 26 November 2010 - 2:38pm
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