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Cilla, Ken Dodd, Tarbie, HJH, Keith Chegwin...your boys took one hell of a beating!
Posted by Retro Man on 14 January 2010 - 11:38am.
Please allow me a minute of indulgence - as a Reading FC fan whose team has been utterly shite for over a year, have only one won once at home since January 2009, don't have a full-time manager and sit one place off relegation - please can I say "all credit to the lads" in beating Liverpool last night!
So, Liverpool fans on the Blog - Rafa eh? Should he stay or should he go?
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A Liverpool supporter replies...
Firstly, well done.
I'm not sure whether Rafa should go, as I'm keen on the idea of managers having the freedom to get it wrong and have bad spells from time to time.
I think our problem is that, with a few high-profile exceptions, our players don't seem to care, let alone play as a team.
Last night's performance was so depressing that I found myself feeling a bit gutted when McAnuff put it wide after that run. The football fan in me actually wanted your lot to win, 'cause you deserved it thoroughly.
I'm an LFC supporter
and would like to echo Torres. As for Rafa, there's still a lot of goodwill towards him and that's as should be. We need investment and we need our players to care a bit more (honourable exceptions aside). It's a bloody shame really, because in my heart I thought a good cup run (and by that, I mean winning the thing) could have added some much-needed lustre to an otherwise very grey season indeed. Things are bad right now but we'll carry each other through: hey, we even have a song about that.....
Nevermind eh?
We're concentrating on the Europa League!
Seriously though, I reckon we'll go on a decent run soon enough, go far in the Europa thingy and secure a top 4 finish.
Life...hope
Despite last night's setback I think Liverpool's season is far from over. [I speak as an Arsenal man, by the way.] It is very feasible, likely even, that Liverpool will win the Europa League. And they can finish top four.
Rafa should be given as long as he wants, even though he does seem to have a blind spot regarding strikers: Torres is outstanding but still human and despite Keane and Crouch not being huge successes he was mad to let them go.
IRWT
I agree with everything Torres B writes, including congratulations to Reading. As another Red, my view is that Rafa should stay. The root cause of Liverpool's current woes is largely mismanagement in the board room. The two owners have consistently disagreed and undermined the management of the club. The premier league is all about money these days, and it's clear that the immediate strategic priority is to fix the balance sheet rather than to achieve success on the pitch.
Liverpool
like a lot of the top teams have decided to hire individuals rather than groom teams to the extent that when the big names play poorly the team really struggles. Its the same at Man Ure since Ronaldo left with spud face having to play a blinder every week if they are to win.
rafa should never have allowed Alonso to go, that's when it all went to hell. Also Gerard is not the player he used to be week in week out.
Still, hopefully they won't be feeling too sorry for themselves.
I like Rafa
but one thing I noticed over the two recent games between or teams is how many very average players there are in the Liverpool squad.
I mean Ngog as the only back-up to Torres - look at Spurs they've got Pavlyuchenko, Defoe, Crouch and Keane just as strikers.
Then there are players like Insua, Deggen, Lucas, Babel - not to mention the ones he's just offloaded.
I was just interested to know how much the fans goodwill to Rafa is being stretched this season. Is it more a case of your Board and Chairmen are deflecting the frustration away from him and the team?
Oh, thanks for your kind comments about Reading too - haven't had much to crow about for so long!
Do you think
McDermott should be given the job permanently?
I think so...
when you see us being linked with higher profile serial falures like Ian Dowie, Peter Taylor, Lawrie Sanchez etc etc. Better him than Peter Reid that's for sure!
He's been at the club for a long time, knows the young players and is a decent chap and of course will be cheap - but those were the criteria for employing our previous manager Brendan Rodgers and he has just been sacked.
Our Chairman's heart and wallet is no longer in the club, especially as he has now achieved his goal of a knighthood. I feel bad knocking him as he saved our club, got us out of a corrugated iron 100 year old ground into a nice new stadium (named, modestly after himself) and into the Premier League for the first time since the Club formed in 1871 - but we are going downhill now and it's a shame.
When I see how much of a farce the Liverpool board is and how their fans feel towards them then we are very lucky with our chairman - but he is just starting to lose the fans respect a bit and it would be a big shame after what he has done for Reading.
I misunderstood this
and thought the list at the start were the contenders to succeed Rafa. Surely Gary Megson should be there too, if so?
Plenty of blame to go round it seems to me
You mention Robbie Keane, but Liverpool had him as back up (or whatever the strategy was). They bought him for 20 million, screwed him up then sold him 6 months later for an 8 million loss. Genius.
As A Non-Liverpool Fan
I can't quite believe he's still there. Yes, I know, Istanbul and all that, but that was five years ago, he's spent a fortune since then, bought his fair share of duds, and now presides over a club that has got very little to play for this season. And it's still only the second week of January. On the one hand, I admire the loyalty of the fans and the board in sticking with him. On the other, how much more has to go wrong before he suffers the fate that would surely have befallen him by now at any other club?
I agree with a lot of that
I don't think Liverpool have much choice at the moment. Who could they bring in to replace Rafa if they can't guarantee a sizeable chunk of transfer kitty? If - and it is an if - they get rid of Rafa I suspect they'll wait for the current window to close and then promise a shed-load for the summer to entice someone for the rest of the season.
If Liverpool fail to get Top 4 this season then I can't see Rafa being allowed to stay.
Who's going to fire him?
Seriously - Rick Parry has gone, and the owners aren't talking. He's about as safe as any manager can be, I'd have thought.
That's why I emphasised
the "if" part about it. I think you've nailed it: Rafa is safe because of the vaccuum of the stalemate with the owners. If he goes it'll be to secure some kind of a business advantage rather than because it's been determined that he's not up to the job as a manager. It's a really p*ss-poor situation for such a great club because if Rafa believes he's got the owners over a barrel financially I think it takes away some of the pressure on him to succeed. He's being allowed to coast. I don't blame him for that but you can see it on the pitch.
Rafa's transfer record
Rafa's transfer record is actually pretty good. He's panic-bought the odd dud - usually because he's missed out on first choice targets because of incompetence at board level - but not with disastrous financial consequences. He has a good eye for a player. Torres is looking a bargain at £26 million; he got Reina and Agger for £6 million each; those three would probably fetch over £100 million between them. He made a £25 million profit on Xavi Alonso when he reluctantly had to let him go. And let's not forget that the best defender in the premier League for the last five years, Jamie Carragher, was a right back/defensive midfielder until Rafa installed him alongside Sami Hyppia at centre half.
This season was always going to be a difficult one without Xavi Alonso, but there's not much a manager can do if a player wants to leave. They've been really unlucky in a few games and the heads are down but it's not the end of the world. Liverpool have had dud seasons before and it's a very competitive league this year. And all the better for it. Liverpool were a great team last season and they will be again. Keep calm and carry on.
That's a good insight
Richard.
Mourinho?
Would we have him?.......That's a real 'head vs heart' situation if ever I saw one. I don't think it's quite true that Rafa is still dining out on Istanbul but I think it's a fair point that Robbie Keane was chopped with unseemly haste. Was there some kind of personal fallout or failure to gel there? As for Alonso, well, I think his new missus wanted to be in Spain and as they say in Madrid 'Mas vale dos tetas que una carreta.'
Wasn't it the case...
...that Keane was bought over Rafa's head and so he was lumbered with a player who became a white elephant?
Absolutely
The owners wanted Keane. Rafa wanted to bring in Barry and offload Alonso. It worked out badly all-round 'cause Keano flopped and Rafa's very public snubbing of Alonso probably paid a major part in him leaving last summer after a tremendous 2008/09.
In my opinion, the loss of Hyypia is almost as crucial as the loss of Alonso when surveying our current slump. He was fading, and not playing regularly, but he was a calm, popular presence on the pitch and in the dressing room and would've helped during our defensive crisis, when we ended up getting the distinctly unimpressive Kyrgiakos in.
Almost
almost agree with you there Torres (do the non reds on here know what the Torres Bounce is) I think we're missing Sami way more than Xabi. The back 4 hasn't gelled at all this season, Sami would have been the perfect calming presence
Hmm...
People say he's living off Istanbul, but they forget that we finished second last season and came closer to winning the title than we had in the preceding 15 years. It's disappointing that we've gone backwards this season rather than building on it, but to suggest that Rafa won the CL in 2005 and has done nothing good since is ridiculous.
crushed
Last season was our chance and we blew it (I blame Lucas - well at least for the 2 points dropped against Everton). I think the club and team have lost the head game as a result and are in freefall. I don't think we have a chance of 4th or the Europa league - I hope I am wrong. Anyway I am not regretting giving up my season ticket this season.
Well done to Reading - they deserved it. Great teamwork, endless running, better chances (though fewer).
Ah, Lucas
the man who seeks to single-handedly debunk the myth that all Brazilians are good at football.
It's bizarre
He was the youngest ever recipient of the Brazilian league's player of the year award and has turned out for the full national side. It makes you wonder why he struggles so much against, well, everyone.
Perhaps because he's a young lad in an alien culture he's having a hard time adjusting. It might be best for both parties if he went back to Brazil.
In Lucas We Trust ...
A few years ago, a Man U fan caused great merriment by jokingly putting Darren Fletcher up for sale on a well-known internet auction site, at a reserve price of 1p. Now, lazy football journos regularly hail him as one of the most important players in the Premiership and his absence is cited as the main reason a rather ordinary looking Man U were given a footballing masterclass by Barcelona in last season's Champions League final.
My prediction is that, within 2 years, Lucas Leiva will develop into one of the best midfielders in Europe. Mind you, I once thought that Salif Diao was the most complete footballer I had ever seen.
be fair
Robinho is helping him on this one
Good point
I seem to remember World-Cup Winner Roque Junior having an "interesting" spell at Leeds a few years back.
See also: Kleberson
Also see also
Cameo 'Fat Elvis' Branca appearance at Middlesbrough.
It was Macheda wot won it.
If he hadn't had come off the bench to score those two winners against Villa and Sunderland, we would have won the title on goal difference. That's the difference between Trafford, Chelsea and us - we just don't have the strength-in-depth of those two.
(Well done, Reading, btw)
Re HJH's
I don't know about the allegiances of the other three, but Macca is a Blue.
Hello, Carl ;-)
The most definite pointers to the Fabs' allegiances are that Macca was photographed at the 1968 FA Cup final between Everton and West Brom (presumably, he wasn't there to cheer on the Baggies...) and that both George and Bongo requested (and were refused) tickets for the 1971 FA Cup final between Liverpool and Arsenal (I'm guessing neither of them were Gooners).
More info here: -
Did the Beatles like football? (1), (2)
Can't remember the source
But I have definitely seen Macca confirm that he at least started out as a blue and that his dad was certainly a blue. Macca being Macca though, he's hardly going to set out to deliberately antagonise half his home city now, is he? Hence the 'both teams' compromise in later years.
Oh, and as a blue, can I just say that I agree with all those Liverpool fans who desperately want Rafa to stay? The longer the better?
It's like the Souness years all over again...
Pre FA Cup interview
I heard him interviewed before last season's FA Cup Final, and when pressed, after conceding, as you say, his dad is a Blue, confirmed that Goodison is where his allegiance lies (albeit less than wholeheartedly).
Edit: I think this confirms it.
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/macca-blue-backing.html
I must have missed something, as...
.. I thought that Liverpool has already won their most important annual cup final ?
they beat Manchester United at home did they not. As long as this result goes their way then their season is a sucess.
I say keep Rafa - he's playing a blinder !
Both ?
I seem to remember Macca saying that he supported both teams, but he was probably just saying that to maintain good relations with all of the city he left behind.
[edit] this was supposed to be an answer to Beatles speculation above.
As a Crewe fan
it was good to see two former loanees, Church and Siggurdson, making big contributions. Both should go far in their careers.
Siggurdson in particular looked good for us, with free kicks and pens, which showed last night. Balls of steel or what to roll it in like that with so much riding on a single kick.
Sigurdsson
is developing into a class player and it's good to see some of our young players given a chance. Mind you with our current policy of selling everything in sight and with no money for replacements there's not much choice.
We've often farmed out some really talented youngsters who have done well on loan. Unfortunately we've often lost local or youth talent (Simon Cox, Darius Henderson, Nathan Tyson for example) when they realize there's some duff, overpaid and overpriced signing standing in their way.
Not wanting to kick all you 'pool fans when you're down...
...but here goes anyway.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/liverpool-squad-down...
Nah...
I can forgive a bit of stick, as long as it's funny (a few posters above should take note!).
rafa must stay la
rafa's doing a grand job at the san giro
if he goes, get roy evans back so there can be more glorious nights in front of da kop with that famous special atmosphere
ynwa/in rafa we trust/scousers salt of the earth/it was chelsea/she loves you yeah yeah yeah/ etc etc etc
Anyone got any thread?
I need to stitch my sides back together.
That must be the hilarious 'banter'...
...for which the pretend Mancs are reknowned and the reason they are the most-liked supporters in the world of football.
Most liked Supporters..
..... forgot that mantle is owned by those cheeky Scouse chaps from Norway.
Ice in your bitter lemon sir ?
Ah well
We shouldn't be surprised to see a decent, good natured thread about football turn into the usual tit-for-tat bollocks.
Well I won't..
.. respond, as I doubt my halo is as big as yours..
Erm...
Your ma.
Or something.
You are out of order.
Say what you want about me - call me a c**t if you wish - don't insult my mother, it's not on.
Whoosh!
I didn't insult your mother. I made a droll reference to the time-honoured schoolyard practice of 'yer ma' jokes to indicate that I felt the conversation was getting childish. Right over yer head, son.
mvps
Torres meant you no insult. It WAS just a droll remark. i got it. lots of other parishoners would have got it, so please don't go picking a fight where none exists. peace.
I'm not bitter...
I congratulate you on your success over the last 15-or-so seasons, just as I congratulate Arsenal and Chelsea on theirs and just as I will congratulate Man City on their future success - okay, we've not been as successful as we once were, but we've still done comparatively well and no doubt we'll do better, all being well.
Relax - it's only a game and not really worth getting worked up about to the extent that you derail internet threads about other teams.
Actually, I rather pine for the Roy Evans era
One of the most entertaining ever Liverpool teams. Roy was a local fella - LFC man and boy - and a thoroughly good egg; the team had some cracking young players - MacManaman, Fowler, Redknapp, Murphy, Owen, Jones, James, Macateer etc. plus a couple of veteran legends (Rushie, Barnes). They played with swagger and style. I liked The Spice Boys. I liked the white Cup Final suits. Didn't win anything apart from the League Cup but sill a great team. Winning all the time is so '80s. And rather vulgar.
At least they looked like they were enjoying themselves. The main gripe I have about Rafa is that it's all so joyless. But I suppose that's how it is these days.
oh well
you think you've got problems...i follow QPR
How many
Managers you lot gonna get through this year?
I'm not entirely sure
but I think I may have been the QPR manager at some point this season, I think it was sometime during the October half-term.
hush everyone
a minute's silence please for the end of the mickey's season
p.s.stevie g. is going abroad at the end of the season
Of course he is...
...I've no doubt that he'll be part of the England squad at the World Cup...
Then after that
he'll put in a spell at his holiday home in the Algarve.
He should go abroad...
...but I fear he won't be allowed to by the thugs who scared him a few years ago when he'd all but signed for Chelsea.
To be honest...
...I think if Liverpool's situation got to the point where Stevie G said he wanted to leave, I think even the cretins who made those threats would have to give their blessing to a player who's given his all for the club over the years.
after today...
shame and anger is all I feel. When STOKE's defenders are FASTER than your strikers, when your midfield is as undisciplined as a nine inch nails moshpit and you allow players who are paid tens of thousands of pounds for ninety minutes' work to wear GLOVES, what do you expect? An enterprising Liverpool journo would do well to check Stevie g's bins over the next month...That mobile bill could be very telling indeed....
Sometimes
I just wish he (Benitez) would admit he'd made a mistake, or that we've underperformed rather than try to blame it on luck, or the referee et al. Our dependence on Torres and Gerrard is overwhelming, especially since they both seem to be injured all the time these days. We have no strength in depth- David N'gog is currently our first choice striker, and against Stoke we were forced to field a team which included eight defensive players.