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Cherry Ghost vs EMI

Uncle Monty's picture

The 'best albums of the decade' thread got me thinking about an album which would probably appear on my list: Thirst for Romance by Cherry Ghost. It's a great album that I keep coming back to, partly because of the lovely tunes, partly for the sense of weary romance and partly for the marvellous lyrics.

So I Googled them to see if they've anything else due out and I found a message from them saying that they'd fallen foul of the changes to the music industry, parted company with EMI and, as a direct result, parted company with their own website and fan contact list (which seems a bit rough).

Which brings me to another thought, vaguely inspired by the Rob Fitzpatrick thread (and the regular features in the magazine about the decline of the music industry). Would there be any scope in an article about those people who are falling through the cracks; those people like Cherry Ghost who are established artists but end up coming a-cropper as the music business tries to work out what it's going to do next and where the revenue will come from.

I don't recall this being covered before, but I could well be wrong. I think there are all sorts of artists out there soldiering on despite the odds being stacked against them, and it would be great to hear it from their perspective.

3

There is a lot of beautiful

There is a lot of beautiful music on that record, but I can't get away with his voice at all.

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Spartacus Mills | 18 November 2009 - 3:55pm

Whither Tom McRae?

He's got lost among the Paulo Nutinis and Ray LaMontagnes (another WATN? contender) and other singer/songwriter types. Perhaps it's that he just wasn't that great.

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Five-Centres | 18 November 2009 - 3:55pm

Oh no, he's still around

I almost mentioned him on the original post, but I realise that I'm always mentioning him on here and I thought it might get a bit boring.

He is a classic example of someone soldiering on despite the slings and arrows of record industry apathy. He recently put back what was going to be a self-released 5th album after renewed record company interest, so would also make a fascinating subject for this imaginary article.

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Uncle Monty | 18 November 2009 - 4:34pm

Cherry Ghost...

An outstanding record. Flavour of the month on Radio 2 for a while.
Sad to think that good artists can be chewed up and spat out like that.
Just goes to show that if pop music was ever about longevity and giving interesting people a fair crack of the whip, it certainly isn't now.

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Adman | 18 November 2009 - 4:35pm

I like it too, but

could it be the name that's the problem? It's daft

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Five-Centres | 18 November 2009 - 4:39pm

"Chewed up and spat out?"

Let's say you're in charge at EMI.
You're watching average sales slide year in, year out. (If you want to get an idea of how drastic it is, look at this report on the Irish record business, as posted this morning by Pat Carty.)
You have less and less money to invest in up and coming acts.
You have to spread that money across many different market sectors: bit in pop, bit in metal, bit in hip hop, bit in indie, bit aimed at the middle market and so forth.
What's the best thing to do if you don't feel that Cherry Ghost are a priority? Soldier on in a half-hearted way or say to the band, we're going to let you go?
In their case, according to what I can glean, their problem is that they let EMI run their website and consequently they don't have the contact emails of the people who signed up to it in the past.
Any modern manager will tell you that's a classic mistake. The bands who get signed nowadays are the bands who have already got their own mailing list, have put out their own downloads, promoted their own gigs and done everything possible to make sure that they're not utterly dependent on the record company.
Of course nobody's pretending that life is anything but difficult for recording artists but personally I'm always amazed at how many of them manage to keep on making records, despite the fact that they've never made a single album that's gone into what most of us would call profit.

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David Hepworth | 18 November 2009 - 5:08pm

"Let's say you're in charge at EMI..."

I wouldn't last five minutes.
I'm actually a music fan.

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Adman | 18 November 2009 - 5:19pm

I hate to burst your balloon

But I know a few people who've been in charge at EMI and they've been bigger music fans than you could ever imagine.

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David Hepworth | 18 November 2009 - 5:30pm

I think I can imagine.

Are they still in charge, I wonder?

(By the way, I was half joking & I defer to your deeper knowledge of the music industry. I was merely trying to speak up for the artist.)

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Adman | 18 November 2009 - 5:44pm

They will soon be in charge

When Terra Firma managers get pulled out of EMI

http://digitalmedia.strategyeye.com/article/CCbplyTqLK2/2009/11/17/terra...

(Twitted by Sir Terence)

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Beany | 18 November 2009 - 8:14pm

Really? (David's comment)

I knew Eric Nicoli and he knew more about biscuits.

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Occam | 18 November 2009 - 8:30pm

And I've met people working in biscuit firms...

....who had no feel for biscuits. They weren't, however, the only ones.

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David Hepworth | 18 November 2009 - 8:42pm

Indeed

I remember the guy who used to run RHM - he knew quite a bit about music oddly enough.

Agree entirely with your main point about artist economics btw.

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Occam | 18 November 2009 - 8:59pm

You're right

To my knowledge, Peter Perrett has never been seen in Peek Freans :-)

1
Black Type | 6 June 2010 - 12:08pm

When you say 'nowadays', are we talking right now?

Are you talking about bands getting signed in the past 6 months or so, or is it longer? I don't know when Cherry Ghost were signed, but I'm guessing maybe 2006 seeing as the cd came out in 2007. Was it an anomaly that they were signed without a mailing list (if they were) or was it that bands who got signed only a couple of years ago had it far easier than they do now?

I agree with you about how amazing it is people keep going and making records despite rarely pleasing the bank manager. There's something fascinating and rather wonderful in the idea that they keep on because they believe in it, because they need to do it and, perhaps, because they keep hoping that they might eventually make some money.

Is it these people who are most at threat from the changes in the industry, or are they the ones who will keep on keeping on just because it doesn't actually affect them in the same way as it might someone who has always relied on massive marketing budgets etc?

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Uncle Monty | 18 November 2009 - 5:40pm

Money

There's something fascinating and rather wonderful in the idea that they keep on because they believe in it, because they need to do it and, perhaps, because they keep hoping that they might eventually make some money.

Well, there's that, plus the fact that record labels keep on advancing them money to record more songs. I don't know the particulars of the Cherry Ghost case, but often artists finish up owing their record companies massive amounts of cash, cash the companies are unlikely to ever get back.

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Fraser Lewry | 18 November 2009 - 5:48pm

They're not the ones in trouble with their bank managers

It's often the record company which goes out of business rather than the artist. The act have had the advance, the record doesn't have a prayer of earning it back, the record company has changed management or ownership, everybody's moved on, the money has been written off and everybody forgets. Then, a few years later, the same act goes in to a different record company, meets an executive who thinks they might be able to succeed where the previous lot failed, and is probably a fan, and gets a new deal. It happens time and time again.

We've said it before but it bears endless repetition. 90% of records don't get within a bus ride of profit. But in the past that was a gamble worth taking because the profits from the 10% paid for the rest. That's no longer the case. Record labels are signing up people who've built themselves a base because that way they might have a fighting chance of beating the odds.

On the subject of execs who like music, the record business provides work for a lot people who don't particularly care about music (and some of them are nonetheless good at their jobs) but it's surprising how many senior people know just as much about music as, say, I do.

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David Hepworth | 18 November 2009 - 6:15pm

It wouldn't be inappropriate

for EMI to allow them to take ownership of the contact list. It has little to no value to EMI if they have no new product to sell. And it would be honourable.

1
Leedsboy | 18 November 2009 - 6:14pm

Article

Agree that that sort of article- focussing on those who maybe have made classic management mistakes or just been in the wrong place and what they are doing to deal with it would be very interesting

May even for those involved flush out a few ideas/offers/options

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tim tunes | 18 November 2009 - 5:18pm

A Friend Who Is Unsigned Has Just Hooked Up With....

...some successful business guys who are willing to fund his next stage of recording - these clearly see some opportunity to make cash.
But on the other hand a recent posting of mine regarding some reissues from the label we're talking about - have taken awhile to come out as there is still money owed on the original recordings and the deal had to reflect that.

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Tony Donaghey | 18 November 2009 - 7:02pm

Talking of whithers...

Whither Midlake? I occasionally google 'midlake new album' and don't come up with anything. Does anybody out there know anything? Please?

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Cobweb Steve | 18 November 2009 - 7:51pm

Midlake

Their website has the details.

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Fraser Lewry | 18 November 2009 - 7:53pm

Touring next year

Tickets safely booked......hopefully not to go the same way as Chuck Berry (see other thread)

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el toro calvo grande | 19 November 2009 - 2:51pm

Thanks

Sorry I've been so tardy in thanking you both for the info but, erm, thanks!

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Cobweb Steve | 25 November 2009 - 8:16pm

Cherry Ghost

are (were?) far better than Elbow - imho - whilst pursuing a similar musical path.

Plus my daughter loved their album. Disconcerting though to hear your angelic 6 year old singing along to the lyrics of "People Help The People".

To wit - "those Hardfaced Queens of misadventure - God knows what is hiding in those weak and sunken eyes"

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Sheev | 18 November 2009 - 9:13pm

is (was?)

(ducks flung flan)

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badartdog | 18 November 2009 - 9:18pm

Not bad for a Bolton lad

"In 2008, Cherry Ghost won an Ivor Novello Award for "People Help the People" in the category of Best Contemporary Song."

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Beany | 19 November 2009 - 12:41am

I'd interview Cherry Ghost

Their comment on the situation appears literate and balanced. Good story I reckon. Statement pasted below:

Cherry Ghost and the collapse of the music business as we knew it
Hello all, just thought we'd update you on what's going on in the world of Cherry Ghost.

If anyone is wondering why the cherryghost.co.uk website has not been updated for over a year, it's because it's controlled by EMI with whom we are no longer associated.

If anyone is wondering why they haven't received any updates from our emailing list, it's because that is also controlled by EMI and they won't let us have the list.

We will set up a new emailing list in the next few months once we are closer to finally finishing the second album. The album will be finished by the end of this year and will be released in 2010.

(Also, if the mysterious person who updates our wikipedia page reads this, we didn't record the new album in Berlin, we recorded it in a barn near Warrington instead. Thanks for doing the wikipedia thing though whoever you are.)

Thanks very much to everyone who came to our sold out shows in Manchester and London in September. The shows were just to dip our toes back into live waters, but we really enjoyed them. We feel we are a better band than we were when we last toured. We will tour properly again next year when are closer to releasing the album. In the current absence of an emailing list please keep an eye on our myspace for details of future gigs as and when we finalise them.

In the meantime, we have been posting up previews of some of the new tracks in an unmixed state ie they are not quite the final fully polished versions. We have been very busy working on this material for the last two years, in between playing wi tennis and jumpers for goalposts (google it).

In between that we've been contending with the collapse of the record industry as we know it. There is plenty of debate on this elsewhere on the web, but suffice to say that whilst the industry is belatedly beginning to reshape itself to an environment where music is freely and instantly available as digital data, it is - in this period of adjustment - a massive pain in the arse for those of us caught up in the middle of it. For the last 40 years record labels have been the gatekeepers through which musicians operate and engage with the wider world. That is no longer the case, and it's no more fun for the people who work at the labels than it is for the artists themselves.

As has been pointed out recently by the not normally reliable Lily Allen, this is making it very difficult for new artists to emerge and develop what they do without being subject to massive amounts of commercial and critical pressure - and being axed if they don't instantly meet it. Contrary to popular myth, most music does not emerge fully formed and graced with genius. Instead it's the result of hours of graft writing songs, hours of graft knocking said songs into shape in the rehearsal room, and hours of graft trying to make the recording sound as good as it sounds in your head. It also involves making mistakes along the way, and being prepared to learn from those mistakes to improve what you do.

Looking back on it we don't think our first album was perfect, but it's a debut, it did it's job, made it's mark and we've since learned from making that album and have been working on something considerably better. We are rather keen to finish this second album off and unveil it to people. We believe it will be worth the effort on our part and worth the wait on yours the audiences part. We believe it deserves to be heard.

All support has been and still is massively appreciated,

Thanks,

CG

1
Leedsboy | 18 November 2009 - 9:15pm

What a wonderful,

articulate, well balanced, warm and informative piece that is from CG.

Thanks for posting Lee

1
Sheev | 18 November 2009 - 9:32pm

I thought so as well

Makes EMI's refusal to let them have the website and contact list seem unduly hard-nosed.

0
Leedsboy | 18 November 2009 - 9:38pm

Also

I corrected the typo in their text - you know what sticklers Word blog readers are.....

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Leedsboy | 18 November 2009 - 10:39pm

Crikey

(Also, if the mysterious person who updates our wikipedia page reads this, we didn't record the new album in Berlin, we recorded it in a barn near Warrington instead. Thanks for doing the wikipedia thing though whoever you are.)

This kind of thing makes me wonder. Does no-one in the band know that Wikipedia can be edited by anyone? Why don't they just fix it, instead of hoping to reach the "person" (there are dozens of people editing that page) responsible? And why do they need a website and an "emailing" list when they already have a MySpace page which is far better at doing both things, especially if they're not so web savvy? It sounds to me like they need a digital-savvy manager more than anything...

1
Fraser Lewry | 18 November 2009 - 9:45pm

True dat

As endearing as it is to come across people who are still baffled by the interweb, it's a bit sad that nobody in CG's orbit has thought to suggest he uses what he's got to communicate to his fans.

Btw, you Word lot posting at this hour - not still at the office are you?

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Occam | 18 November 2009 - 9:53pm

Not me

Although the rest might well be - today and tomorrow are the going-to-press days.

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Fraser Lewry | 18 November 2009 - 9:55pm

Really? When's the next ish

Really? When's the next ish due out? I didn't appreciate the lead in time was so long.

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eddie | 18 November 2009 - 11:07pm

Next issue

It's December 3rd (i.e. the first Thursday of the month rather than the usual second).

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Fraser Lewry | 18 November 2009 - 11:11pm

Which means (hopefully)

Which means (hopefully) Monday 30th November for us subscriber types. Hooray! Time flies, etc....

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eddie | 19 November 2009 - 12:02am

Goody!

The Christmas issue (OK I know it's the January issue but...)

What Yuletide surprises can we expect? We will not tell if you let slip a snippet from Santa's stocking...

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Beany | 19 November 2009 - 12:38am

Pah!

For some of us every day is a going-to-press day (Newspaper hack sneers at airy-fairy magazine types while secretly envying them)

1
David Cooper | 18 November 2009 - 11:16pm

Easier said than done to change Wiki

As per the experience of Mike Scott of The Waterboys.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/mar/23/popandrock2

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Doods | 19 November 2009 - 2:35pm

Great article - thanks

Funny one next to it about telling your children the worst swear word too.

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Occam | 19 November 2009 - 2:54pm

Still,

logging in at all hours counts as true dedication to the cause.

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Occam | 18 November 2009 - 10:01pm

I'm fascinated by life in "Division 2"...

... of the music business, and would love to see an article on the lesser/never-seen musicians who aren't stars, but still make a living from music. This could include former major label artists now doing it themselves (a la Cherry Ghost) a tribute act, one of those perma-gigging outfits like The Hamsters of Dumpy's Rusty Nuts, session musicians, and so on.

And I love "Thirst For Romance," a great album.

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Metal Mickey | 19 November 2009 - 8:15am

I'm happy to join the Cherry

I'm happy to join the Cherry Ghost love-in. But weren't they signed to Heavenly? I realise that most of Heavenly's records go straight through EMI but some don't. And if they (Jeff and Robin) love good music as much as they seem to, shouldn't they be putting the new album out themselves, or looking for someone else to license it to?

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Martin_Horsfield | 19 November 2009 - 5:13pm

Turned out nice again !!!!

I just strayed across this blog and I am from said band (CG). Very flattering that we should have become a talking point and never one to pass up the opportunity to play a martyr, however, it really isn't that much a hard luck story. The EMI gravy train ground to a halt and they downsized their roster to cater for a more mainstream market. We were offered a pitiful amount of money to make the 2nd album with them. Due to the success of the first we could afford to make the album ourselves and tout it around for a much more favourable royalty rate.
End result was we made a much better album, with a much more dynamic and interesting label incorporating Heavenly once again. It's released on 5th July and is currently being played on the radio. Yes it's been tough at times, but what isn't ? See you out there. Sx

3
thugnutz | 6 June 2010 - 10:35am

It'll be good

to have you guys back. Your debut album was a truly wonderful thing.

0
GunsOfBrixton | 6 June 2010 - 10:43am

seconded

look forward to hearing the new stuff

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Sheev | 6 June 2010 - 10:50am

Thanks also

for putting Bolton on the musical map. Does the new CD include a World Cup song? Just wondrin'...

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Beany | 6 June 2010 - 11:35am

Good to read your post.

Will look out for the album.
Glad you're still doing it!

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Adman | 6 June 2010 - 12:33pm

Great to hear you're back

I just noticed Cherry Ghost are playing the Ben and Jerrys festival in London. Reason enough to go, but with Billy Bragg and Doves as headliners, it sounds unmissable frankly.

Good luck with the new album...

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Uncle Monty | 8 June 2010 - 11:58am

Simon!

Fantastic to see a post from you round here. I can't wait to hear your record.

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Jonah | 6 June 2010 - 11:57am

Playing The Word Pub Venue of choice,,,

The Lexington on 22nd June also. I saw them live in Camden in 2007 and they were very good.

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Razor Boy | 8 June 2010 - 12:43pm

Maybe EMI should stop trying to be all things to all people?

David comments: You have to spread that money across many different market sectors: bit in pop, bit in metal, bit in hip hop, bit in indie, bit aimed at the middle market and so forth.

No you don't.

Just as The Word aims at a certain part of the market (witness the low coverage for death metal, bluegrass and avant garde modernism) so EMI should think about what market it is in. Many businesses are realising today they need to be huge or they need to be a very good niche player. The middle ground is disappearing and/or totally unprofitable. If they think any act or song will succeed, go with it. But they should focus their main efforts on a few genres and be really, really good at it.

And they should also think about what "music business" means. Does it incorporate recorded and live? Does it include artist management? What distribution channels does it embrace?

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Mark JF | 8 June 2010 - 1:36pm
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