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Cemented their reputation, but hardly their best

Bigsby's picture

I cite Songs In The Key Of Life - it's when the wider populace 'got' Stevie, but there are better earlier albums.

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R.E.M. "Out of Time"

Terrific album... but certainly not as good as "Murmur" and probably not as good as "Reckoning" or "Green."

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Mark JF | 2 April 2009 - 9:22pm

Go Big. Go Early

OK Computer not as good as The Bends.

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Sheev | 2 April 2009 - 9:26pm

The Bends

Agreed.

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kidpresentable | 3 April 2009 - 1:26am

'In Rainbows'...

is their best record.

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Patrick Crowther | 3 April 2009 - 7:14am

Hail To The Thief

for me......

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Six Dog | 3 April 2009 - 12:14pm

It does however,

contain their worst track "We Suck Young Blood", as nobly pointed out in the Word feature on Bad Songs by Great Bands

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Jonah | 6 April 2009 - 8:55am

or Document

or Life's Rich Pageant

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badartdog | 3 April 2009 - 6:28am

It's Pageant for me

Where they found their feet as far as I'm concerned. I've been waiting for Up to become the classic that no-one appreciated at the time, but, it's time hasn't come yet.

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Bigsby | 3 April 2009 - 10:32pm

I'm with you on Up

But I also have a sneaking regard for New Adventures In Hi-fi.

If some pill could be invented that wiped out all memory and trace of Around The Sun & Reveal, that would be good too.

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Molesworth | 3 April 2009 - 10:37pm

Pageant and Up

Yes, aside from AFTP, these are REM's best.

In my opinion, REM had been written off after Monster, so Up was lazily reviewed thereby produced poor sales. Not enough people have even heard Up to give it that groundswell required to make it the classic that it deserves. To think that the millions who deserted REM after Monster haven't heard songs like Be Mine & New Test Leper (from New Adventures) or A Sad Professor & Falls to Climb (from Up) - it's a tragedy.

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kb | 6 April 2009 - 1:46pm

The 2

Huge hit with The Joshua tree, which is a fine album but not as good as The Unforgettable Fire

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Pat Carty | 2 April 2009 - 9:40pm

Spot on

For me, Unforgettable Fire is their best record by a mile and one of the very best albums of the 80s.

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Molesworth | 3 April 2009 - 7:45am

Nope...not for me

Boy and everything's been steadily downhill since with a slight upcurve at Achtung Baby and Zooropa before plunging the depths again

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Six Dog | 3 April 2009 - 12:16pm

I'll give you Zooropa

I like the ones that sound like they havent finished them, ie flogged them to death in the studio.

And Unforgettable Fire would have been much better if they'd left Pride off it.

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Molesworth | 3 April 2009 - 5:56pm

Seconded

Boy's the best thing they ever did. It has a feel completely it's own and nothing before or since sounds quite like it.

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Prestonia | 4 April 2009 - 10:36am

It all went downhill after Boy

in my opinion. That bloaty Joshua Tree period doesn't interest me at all.

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Bigsby | 3 April 2009 - 10:36pm

"I preferred their early work"

Genesis (at least in terms of the hit parade)
Elbow (first album is the best, my opinion only)
Labi Siffre (much of the 70s stuff far better than that "So Strong" business)
Aphex Twin (work completed when 15 far better than work completed since 18)

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Auntie Beryl | 2 April 2009 - 10:32pm

Elbow

My favourite is Leaders Of The Free World. Again, not the one they are known for these days.

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kidpresentable | 3 April 2009 - 1:27am

Agreed

"Leaders..." is still my favourite, as much as I love the new one.

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Nasalhair | 3 April 2009 - 9:29am

David Gray

I remember thinking his first, 'A Century Ends' (at the time of its release), was very powerful and very out of kilter with the times - a-fashionable, if that's a word (well, it is now!). He REALLY meant what he had to say and he had a remarkable facility with words and metaphors - and seeing him play in pubs to small but always enthused crowds was very exciting. I was lucky enough, living in Ireland, to be among a population who 'got' him almost instantly - I really couldn't understand why it took years and 4 albums for anyone in the UK to listen (and I'm really talking about the UK media here, as the arbiters/gatekeepers of taste in the pre internet era). I thought 'White Ladder', the big breakthrough, was okay, but much prefered the one after. But he'll never be able to conjure the same sparse, hungry, life-depends-on-this magic as he did with his first album - if only because he's not that guy, with that guy's pressures of life any more. Sometimes something worth the angst does come out of a bedsit. (But not often!)

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Colin H | 2 April 2009 - 10:46pm

...can't listen to David Gray anymore ...

...as with most of the populace, I loved White Ladder at the time, but maybe it just got played too much.

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Steerpike | 2 April 2009 - 11:22pm

The wider populace

was only introduced to Jeff Buckley by Hallelujah last year. The Sin-E albums were infinitely better

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stimpy | 3 April 2009 - 7:38am

No

they're not

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Pat Carty | 3 April 2009 - 9:16am

On what basis

do you make that assertion?

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stimpy | 3 April 2009 - 9:32am

jeez

two Jeff Buckley fans having it out...this could get messy!

(only joshing, lads...)

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ivan | 3 April 2009 - 10:05am

Careful now!

Mind those eyelashes!

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Six Dog | 3 April 2009 - 12:17pm

Retraction

Fair enough my reply was a bit short, to me the Sin-e record isn't a patch on Grace but each to his own and, whisper it, I saw him in Sin-e a few times, really.

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Pat Carty | 3 April 2009 - 12:56pm

cheating...

is that the boozer on Ormond Quay...

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ivan | 3 April 2009 - 1:12pm

No

it isn't

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Pat Carty | 3 April 2009 - 1:13pm

Aren't the best records always

the ones just before the breakthru'. And the worst the ones just after?
I am not going to give examples, that's your job!

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Retropath2 | 3 April 2009 - 7:40am

Simple Minds

Perfect example of Retro's theory above.

To wit:

Sons & Fascination/Sister Feelings Call - excellent set, their best work.

New Gold Dream - the huge breakthrough, good but not great

Sparkle in the Rain - unmitigated shite.

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Paul Waring | 3 April 2009 - 8:00am

Totally agree

'Sons and fascination' is a fabulous record, was so disappointed with 'New Gold Dream'when it came out. My mate and I still have arguments over which was the best of these two.

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Mint | 3 April 2009 - 10:51am

A vote for Empires And Dance from me...

and...if Sparkle in the Rain was unmitigated shite (in the main it was ), what the hell was Once Upon A Time?

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Six Dog | 3 April 2009 - 12:19pm

Isn't that widely recognised as a dollop?

As we call it in the business...

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Auntie Beryl | 6 April 2009 - 10:56pm

The Verve

Urban Hymns blah blah blah - give me A Northern Soul any day of the week - the memory of driving down through the South of France, the entire car singing 'I wanna die alone in bed' will never fade!

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Occam | 3 April 2009 - 9:27am

Prince

As great as "Purple Rain" may be, my personal favourites of his are "Parade", and "The Black Album" ("Sign O The Times" is, for me, rather overrated).

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Nasalhair | 3 April 2009 - 9:30am

Hmmm

I'm not going to look this up, but off the top of my head, didn't Parade come after Purple Rain?

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Theo Zoffrok | 3 April 2009 - 12:53pm

Yup...

1999 was '82, Purp Rain was '84, Parade was '86. Parade might well have been better, but it was well after his breakthrough

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stimpy | 3 April 2009 - 1:06pm

Yes

But I was taking the thread title literally: "cemented their reputation, but hardly their best". I.e. it's the album that brought him to peoples' attention, but it isn't his best. Do you see?

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Nasalhair | 5 April 2009 - 8:48am

Stanley Road by Paul Weller

As someone who has eagerly wolfed down every Paul Weller album since All Mod Cons, some with a bigger pinch of salt than others, I don’t really understand why Stanley Road towers over every other album before or since in his sales graph. Except that folk are funny. And timing is everything.

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Richard Lowe | 3 April 2009 - 9:42am

Ziggy Stardust

sold truckloads but Hunky Dory, released about 6 months before, slipped out largely unheralded - and unpurchased.
I think the earlier album is superior, more complex thematically and musically sounds less dated than the album which soon after thrust Bowie into the glare.

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Preston74 | 3 April 2009 - 10:22am

Ziggy Stardust

sold truckloads but Hunky Dory, released about 6 months before, slipped out largely unheralded - and unpurchased.
I think the earlier album is superior, more complex thematically and musically sounds less dated than the album which soon after thrust Bowie into the glare.

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Preston74 | 3 April 2009 - 10:22am

The re-issue

was especially good ;-)

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nigelthebald | 3 April 2009 - 10:31am

Morrissey while I'm at it

Maladjusted - mildly inspired curate's egg which apparently rendered him unsignable for years.

You Are the Quarry - 7 years in the colon, this steaming, monotonous turd of an album, followed by the equally desperate bowel movement that was Ringleader is where me and Mr Misery have had to part after more than two decades of fun together.

Reading between the lines of the usual 5 star Amazon reviews, I'm guessing that Years of Refusal is another fetid stool.

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Occam | 3 April 2009 - 10:34am

Harsh...

I thought "...Quarry" and "Ringleader..." had their moments, but for me the new album is a cracker. My next door neighbour is a Smiths and Morrissey fan and he likes the new one as well, so make of that what you will.

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Nasalhair | 3 April 2009 - 11:38am

Just to add to the confusion

I think both Quarry and Refusal are good in places*, terrible in others** but Ringleader is by far the best of Mozzer's late period.

* Quarry: First of the gang, Camden, Irish Blood;
Refusal: Skull, All you need, You were good.

** Quarry: Crashing bores, Let me kiss you, How can anybody...;
Refusal: Sorry doesn't help, I'm OK, That's how...;

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Cadabra | 3 April 2009 - 3:22pm

Associates - 'Sulk'

was certainly the record that brought them to the publics' attention and even gave them a few hits, but for me 'Fourth Drawer Down' was the better record, wildly inventive and exciting

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Mint | 3 April 2009 - 10:59am

"Affectionate Punch"...

...is for me the best record as a complete cohesive collection of songs, though totally different from what was to follow. I'm not sure "Fourth Drawer Down" counts, as it's really a singles collection rather than a purpose-built album. It's still great though - don't think they ever matched "Q Quarters" or "Message Oblique Speech". "Skipping" came close though...

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KDH | 5 April 2009 - 9:43am

Teenage Fanclub

I discovered them when Bandwagonesque came out. And it is still my favourite album.

But their biggest album was Songs from Northern Britain. Which is also a great album, actually. As is every single thing they have ever done. I think.

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Kjell | 3 April 2009 - 5:54pm

Not sure that the Fannies...

...have ever had an album that cemented their reputation. But for me Grand Prix is consistently their best, whilst Howdy! is well..., not.

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Bigsby | 3 April 2009 - 10:29pm

I totally agree!

Bandwagonesque may be their most acclaimed work, but Grand Prix is an underrated gem.

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graceunderpressure | 3 April 2009 - 10:37pm

Reputations...

can be widespread or not.

I admit I was thinking about not posting about TF, but they are one of my absolute favorite bands, and I think they deserve more recognition.

I know the Fannies don't have the following of U2 or Bob Dylan.
It's the same point as made of the other artists on this thread, only on a smaller scale.

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Kjell | 4 April 2009 - 10:30am

Fannies Rule

Loved the Fannies ever since their first Big Day Out Festival appearance in Melbourne. Playing in the full glare of an Australian sun they commented on how wonderful the picnic atmosphere was and, grabbing a platter of sandwiches from their backstage rider, jumped into the crowd and shared the feast with us all. True gentlemen! Oh yeah, 'Grand Prix' is their best album and the one with Jad Fair is a shocker.

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kcgrady | 5 April 2009 - 12:35pm

Chart positions...

Northern Britain charted high on the back of the reputation of Grand Prix. But the earlier album sold for years on word of mouth, and still sells OK today (it's all relative, like).

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Auntie Beryl | 6 April 2009 - 10:59pm

It's Revolver, not Pepper, people

And Your Bird Can Sing is worth most of Pepper added together

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Bigsby | 3 April 2009 - 10:37pm

There is much truth in what you say wise one

But still, The White Album is the greatest album of all time.

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Molesworth | 3 April 2009 - 10:40pm
Bigsby | 3 April 2009 - 10:46pm

I take your point

I know there should be all sorts of clever explanations and rationale about it, but to be honest, I haven't got one. I just know it's the record I turn to most often, and that I just love it, warts and all, from Back In THe USSR to Good Night. If a track comes up on the shuffle, I pretty much have to stop the shuffle and play the whole thing.

There isn't a thing I'd change about it, not the packaging, the running order, nothing, I just am a total sucker for the whole sprawling mess of it.

I can't explain it any better than Macca did - "It's the bloody Beatles White Album". No more comment necessary.

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Molesworth | 4 April 2009 - 7:02am

All of it, please

But in a strange way, the bits that maybe shouldn´t have been there are what make it what it is. I even like Revolution 9. Nice men and women in white coats feed me daily. Sometimes the even let me water the plants.

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Ola Claesson | 6 April 2009 - 12:11am

Neil Young

The public loved Harvest but I'd rather take Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere to a desert island.

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Paul Chandler | 4 April 2009 - 11:58am

Good call, but I have a special affection for Zuma

More likely because it was always on my turntable when I first met Mrs Bigsby.

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Bigsby | 5 April 2009 - 6:48pm

Tough decision

Unplugged for me, I think.

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Ola Claesson | 7 April 2009 - 9:33am

After the Goldrush anybody?

After Neil Young swept through town in February I played through a stack of his early cds not wanting to let the experience leave me to soon. 'After The Goldrush' dominated proceedings for me. Couldn't stop playing it.

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kcgrady | 10 April 2009 - 8:05am

Led Zep...

The second was good and broke them into the public eye, but the first was sooooooooooooo much better...then they hit us between the eyes with with 3, then steamroller us into nirvana with Led Zep4...not sure what all this has to do with the thread, but fuckme, they were good!!!

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geacher53 | 5 April 2009 - 10:52pm

The Who

Tommy made them worldwide megastars but does anybody actually listen to it anymore? How quaint to think there was a time when "First Rock Opera" was a title fought over. Quadrophenia, too, is largely unlistenable now. All those keyboards! Now, here's where I get controversial: the best Who album, song for song, is The Who By Numbers. Let the howls of outrage begin.

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Ian McGillis | 5 April 2009 - 11:53pm

Hoooooooooowwwlll of outrage!

Who's Next is not just The Who's best, but one of the best by anyone. A fact I can prove to fifteen decimal places.

Although your comment re "All those keyboards!" might suggest you won't agree.

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Sam Fiddian | 6 April 2009 - 6:49am

Born In The USA comes to mind

Altough you could argue that he didn´t need any more cementing at that point. But that one sealed the icon-status and made him what he is now. Before that, however big ones he´d made, he was just a Duracell bunny chasing his dream, wasn´t he?

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Ola Claesson | 6 April 2009 - 12:08am

Tunnel Of Love

did it for me, despite Born In The USA, which I have now come to like a bit more.

And according to his last one, he's still working on that dream, apparently.

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Bigsby | 6 April 2009 - 2:37pm

Tunnel Of Love

Tunnel Of Love is a favourite, yes. I´m not even bothered about the occasionally rather awful production. It takes a while to "get" TOF. It´s not as ball knocking as some of his other stuff, but once it gets you it gets you good, which is also how I feel about The Ghost Of Tom Joad. He´s just as good when he is quiet as when he´s pounding his chest on the mountain.

I have tickets to see him when the tour reaches Sweden. Feel like a five year old waiting for cake.

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Ola Claesson | 6 April 2009 - 4:02pm

Who's Next is...

by any sane standard, a great album. But for me it has been spoiled by classic rock overkill, to the point where, especially with Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again, I literally can't hear it anymore (a condition quite distinct from finding it unlistenable). By Numbers, on the other hand, is that rarest of beasts: a genuinely neglected work by a major artist, somewhat along the lines of Neil Y's On The Beach before that album's relatively recent rise to prominence. Seriously, go through it song by song and you won't find anything close to a duff track. Even Blue Red & Grey, open to charges of tweeness, is twee in that uniquely Pete way. As the token Entwistle track, Success Story beats My Wife; as an opener, Slip Kid is--yes--equal to Baba O, and can still be heard with something like fresh ears; Squeeze Box is a killer semi-novelty pop tune in the tradition of Happy Jack and Magic Bus; How Many Friends is Pete at his pissed-off soul-baring best, a bit his take on Positively 4th St. Really, I'm at a loss to explain this album's relative obscurity, but the upside of that is that it's there, waiting to be discovered.

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Ian McGillis | 7 April 2009 - 12:29am

Fair point.

I shall pull out By Numbers tonight and load it on the iPod.

And I can understand your comments re the over-exposure of some of the tracks from Who's Next. I wonder which track will be used as the theme to CSI: Islington?

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Sam Fiddian | 7 April 2009 - 9:45am

Bonus point

...And you can join the dots.

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kcgrady | 10 April 2009 - 8:02am

Much preferred...

Henry the Human Fly to I Want to See the Bright Lights myself.

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Klaus Joynson | 7 April 2009 - 4:03am

Interesting point...

I prefer Bright Lights, but RT is probably an artist I like more in general than any of his albums - meaning there's not one where he nails it completely as far as I'm concerned. But, I'd cross the road to watch him play any time. Could probably put a killer compilation together.

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Bigsby | 7 April 2009 - 8:50pm

With Richard Thompson...

...it probably depends on what you heard first. For me that happened to be Henry the Human Fly, years after the fact, and it's still in my all-time top ten. But I've got a friend who feels the same way about Rumour and Sigh, and I'm not about to tell him he's wrong. Even though he's clearly wrong.

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Ian McGillis | 7 April 2009 - 10:51pm

Rumor (sic) and Sigh

is indeed a great album, but the two he released at the end/start of the various Millenium (millenia?), Mock Tudor and Old Kit Bag contain some of his best guitar work, plus some stonking songs.

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geacher53 | 9 April 2009 - 7:36pm

Didn't mean to imply...

that R & S is in any way substandard, only that it doesn't quite hit the sustained heights of early--and, alright, some later--Thompson. I think it's important, in a forum like this, to remember that we're talking about degrees of wonderfulness. Like, ahem, my earlier comment about Quadrophenia: the world is still a better place for the existence of that album. That big black-and-white photo book alone (included in the vinyl edition for years but, alas, long since personally lost to me) did as much to shape my experience of British rock as did any song.

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Ian McGillis | 9 April 2009 - 8:02pm

Should I Say...

That I recently purchased the reissued vinyl copy of Quadrophenia, complete with black and white stills book. Cost me upwards of 20 quid but definitely worth it. A great album.

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Klaus Joynson | 10 April 2009 - 3:10am

.

.

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Indus | 9 April 2009 - 9:40pm
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