Look at recent sitcoms that (generally) are regarded as pretty good: Dinnerladies, Early Doors, The Smoking Room, The Royle Family as examples - all rely on an ensemble and have the quality of acting that's needed to deliver a good script really well.

It is I think the time pressure of modern TV and the desire for instant success that prevents this with a lot of modern sitcoms. Although the fact that The Persuasionsists has effectively been dropped by the BBC after only 3 episodes might be a sign that the penny has dropped among TV executives (we can but hope)

I think it's fair to say that, on the whole, the best British sitcoms have been those that used 'proper' actors rather than comedians - a tradition started by, I believe, Steptoe and Son (itself a classic example where the darkness, pathos and subtlety inherent in the scripts required something more than a red-nosed, trouser-dropping 'funnyman' to make them work). Half a century on, it's pretty woeful, then, to still have sitcoms that consist largely of 'comics' (not to mention the likes of Amanda Holden) standing around waiting to deliver the next telegraphed 'joke'.
That said, I liked the IT Crowd as there was a genuine warmth there – something its imitators have notably failed to conjure up. And it's funny.
Not that 'proper' actors are a failsafe - a lot of otherwise good actors (and the British tend to be far worse offenders than Americans) seem to go into 'sitcom' mode, presumably under the impression that mugging furiously and shouting is inherently funny. Radio 4 sitcoms are the prime examples of this (although you have to imagine the mugging bit.)

... and "rigourous rehearsal period." I saw a late-night live improv session they did (I assume one of many) that eventually became "Man To Man With Dean Learner" about a year later. Not that it was a perfect comedy series, but they were clearly working hard (and prepared to do it in public) to build up characters and make them as funny as possible (I'd also say that the original Garth Marenghi stage show is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.)

And I'd throw in "Spaced" as an example of a sitcom that integrates the direction (as well as the cast & script) into the comedy like no other I can immediately call to mind - it just couldn't have been done in front of an audience, but doesn't suffer for it.

is always necessary. But I do support the point about comic actors rather than "comedians". Ronnie Barker was arguably the finest comic actor of his generation, and although I don't particularly like Only Fools, I'd accept that David Jason is also a great comedy actor. The Thick of It and Gavin and Stacey are the only contemporary ones I can think of that use comedy actors (Alison Steadman, Peter Capaldi) etc, although G&S does use obviously use "comedians" as well

I'm not saying it's impossible to be a successful comedian and actor, but the current vogue for putting stand ups into a sitcom, presumably to get ratings for a "name", is part of the problem.

(rumours that Film 4 are looking to remake "Withnail and I" with Horne and Corden, and Matt Lucas as Uncle Monty, are I hope untrue)

I seriously love that, a great cast and a creative heart so involved in what she was doing that she nearly had a nervous breakdown. And to date, Victoria Wood has never attempted another sit-com.

Spaced, The Office and Gavin & Stacey(I grew up for a time near Barry, the other half in the East End of London, the characters ring very true to me), all have creators who are part of the cast too, and rely heavily on the ensemble thing. All sit up there as favourites in comedy for me. Spaced in particular was my life.

Well, I don't think The IT Crowd is as good as Father Ted, but what is? I'm pretty sure that G.Linehan would feel that his quote "it was finished and it was time to put the actors back in their box" is being taken out of context. GL has a high regard for the unfashionable three-cameras-and-a-studio-audience sitcom and The IT Crowd is the best UK sitcom in this genre at the moment. I would imagine that anyone who works with any success in this genre will probably say "duh, of course the ensemble of actors is important." I watched the first 15mins of the Persuasionists and was willing it to be better, for the love of Buxton, but when you watched it fail, you could understand that perhaps Linehan makes this kind of thing look easy.

The Inbetweeners came along. I don't know why it works so well but it has restored my faith in British comedy.

Its been a long long time since I've literally cried with laughter at something on the tele. Great chemisty between the writers and the excellent cast.

When was the last time you experienced a genuine "Don't tell him Pike" moment? This show has reminded me that even as I approach my 50th year, I can still laugh like I did as twelve year old.

... (well, one of them at least) is the sticoms they put on BBC Three. They flogged "Two Pints..." to death (when it should never have been born in the first place), and "Coming Of Age" has replaced it, and that is 10 times worse. It's become a play-ground for the purile mind.

As funny now as it was then...

the bloke who played Father Ted was a right royal pain in the arse. I recall hearing that even in his obits, let alone years later.

...is due to the rise in "alternative" comedy clubs which started in the late 70s/80s, and the decline in working class comics, probably due to the demise of the working men's club/Labour club etc., which is in turn down to licensing laws-you can drink between 2 and 7 on a Sunday and you don't have to go at 11.20.
Hopefully talent will out, Terry Alderton being a case in point. I believe the Embassy Club in Harpurhey is still going, although its proprietor is long gone.
There is now a huge network of middle class stand-ups getting each other jobs etc., whereas the old school had to compete-only room for one or two comics on the bill.

I thought hippies was much funnier than IT Crowd.

no laughing matter.

comedians as talented as Les Dawson and Eric Morecambe would get their chance even today. Every time you make a comedy you are asking for a perfect storm; great script, great acting, great direction. Some work brilliantly with a studio audience, some work without. When remembering the Golden Age comedies you forget that they were the jewels on top of a mountain of crap. They were all made at the same time as a load of terrible stuff. On The Buses? Love Thy Neighbour? Johnny Vegas is doing OK and he's not Oxbridge.

Eric and Les ruled when there were only three TV channels.

stayed around HudD. You've annoyed me and made me feel wholly inadequate your two posts so you'll fit in just fine round here!
I have a deep love for traditional British sit coms and as you and other posters have pointed out great writing and great acting make for great comedy. It's no big secret so why do so many fail so miserably now? As in all aspects of entertainment today people want success NOW there's no time for anything to grow, probabaly Black Adder was the last to be given a stay of execution after the awful first series and look how that flourished. The great comedy writers and actors as you say learnt their trade on the radio so were ready to be allowed half an hour peak time TV once a week. The best comedy of the last 20 years for me was sadly not British, it was Frasier and it follows all the simple rules. Intelligent writing with no real "gags" and proper bona fide actors and guess what? It works. Has there been a better performance in comedy than David Hyde Pierce's portrayal of Niles? Not since Corbett, Bramble, Le Mesurier etc. So we are left with the occasional gem among the tat, I for one hope Miranda Hart is given a second chance because it seems to be going in the right direction I don't see a lot else out there although after this thread I am willing to give The Inbetweeners a go.

A bit of background is needed to clarify the Linehan quote in the original post. However, as a preface, I'd like to first say that I don't much care for The IT crowd. why? I've never given it more than 10 minutes 'cos I can't stand The Irish Guy.: and me - a card carrying Irish Ted Worshipper! i actually think that's the difference: in Ted Graham Linehan, along with arthur Matthews struck comedy gold.
However, and here's the rub, what most British audiences don't realise is that, with the exception of Ardal O Hanlon's Dougal, most of the main characters and many of the guest stars had been Irish comedy royalty for years: Frank Kelly had been a central character in Ireland's 1970s TWTWTW, Hall's Pictorial Weekly, while Brendan Grace (The menacing Father Stack in the New Jack City episode) was played by Brendan Grace: a huge cabaret comedian in Ireland.
In terms of casting, the chuckle-merchants were well-balanced with great Irish acT-OR-S, such as Jim Norton (Bishop Brennan) and Nial Buggy (Fr. Todd Unctious)- if you don't recognise him, watch In the Name of the Father.

But, but but but.... Dermot Morgan as Father Ted!!!!!!
Do you know how big he was? He was our Bill Hicks! ('Steady on Vorgon lad, we've all had a drink.') Morgan had been one of Ireland's best-loved character-comedians for years (Fr Ted is based on his Fr. Trendy, which he used ton hawk around in the early 80s) even while Linehan was honing his craft writing piss-your-pants funny Christmas inserts to the Hot Press Yearbook. (If you can find any articles with the Byline,'The Border Fascist' check them out.

However, in 1990 until RTE effectively censored it to premature death, he devised, along with Jerry Stembridge, Pauline Mac Glynn and others, Scrap Saturday - a half hour Saturday morning radio satirical grenade, showcasing his utterly exceptional talents as a mimic (Think an Irish rob Brydon, with even better gags) as well as a fearless gift for 'Fuck you, you undeservedly rich, lying politician redneck' satire. Look, people used to pass tapes to each-other on factory floors on Monday mornings as Leinster House's latest victims would cower in their limos, snailing past the sneering press gauntlet up Kildare Street.
Suffice to say that Linehan was in awe of Dermot Morgan and I personally know how much he loved Dermot and how inconsolably shell-shocked he was in the aftermath of his tragic death.

So maybe you misinterpreted the quote.

Then again, everyone knows that Frank Kelly is a pain in the balls to work with: maybe that's who he was talkin' about Ted.

"Interestingly", I recently watched an episode of MASH with canned laughter, and it completely ruined the feel of the show. Watching it in the 1970s with no laughter track on the BBC made me think it was a bit more high-brow.

I think there are far more similarities than difference between Irish comedy and that comes from the UK. It seems that the characters are hopelessly trapped and deeply unfulfilled and frustrated with their lot i.e. sad most of the time.

Whereas comedy from the States tends to feature characters who are wealthy and successful and are happy most of the time.

You said that the best sitcoms:

"Depend on the interaction of its ensemble players – a group so well integrated and attuned to each other’s quirks that even the most absurd situations seemed believable, if not downright reasonable – in other words, establish character, tone-down the BIG acting, and work on the conversation".

Sounds convincing, and when you look at "The Work Outing", the first episode of the second series of "The IT Crowd", you could see it as an exemplar of everything you would claim is wrong with Britcom: it is overplayed, it is "mugged" and big-acted by the ensemble, it relies on some fairly cheap sterotyping at the expense of the gay and disabled communities, it is unreasonable, unbelieveable, occasionally moronic and is perhaps undermined by a series of inorganic events and interactions which seem to mirror the writer's needs rather than those of the characters.

Despite this, however, it is also the funniest single episode of a British sitcom since "The Germans".

writing partnerships are difficult - after reading well remembered days i'm certain that mathews is primarily the primary reason for FT's genius - one of the few comedy series that can be watched and laughed at time and time again - linehan's rep since ted hasn't been great and the british comedy scene is still as incestuous and pally as it ever was (good to see my townsman john bishop finally getting a crack at 8 out of 10 formualic comedy panel shows)

the golden era of partridge/brass eye/fast show seems a long long time ago now and the domination of baby cow/talkback etc has ensured that the old pals act still operates across comedy now as it did with tarby/brucey/ronny and vic/bob/wossy etc - bbc3 as it was originally intended was supposed to be a place for experimentation and risk taking but with C4 and the BBC (even digital channels) running scared of the daily heil brigade, a culture of cowardice and complacency has succeeded in castrating homegrown comedy. funny to read people like whitehouse and higson pretending that it was difficult to get third rate shite like bellamy's people commissioned - yeah and 'harry and paul' would've got the green light if it wasn't enfield and whitehouse behind it. these self-absorbed whoppers actually believe they're part of the alternative not just another set of industry insiders.

writing partnerships are difficult - after reading well remembered days i'm certain that mathews is primarily the primary reason for FT's genius - one of the few comedy series that can be watched and laughed at time and time again - linehan's rep since ted hasn't been great and the british comedy scene is still as incestuous and pally as it ever was (good to see my townsman john bishop finally getting a crack at 8 out of 10 formualic comedy panel shows)

the golden era of partridge/brass eye/fast show seems a long long time ago now and the domination of baby cow/talkback etc has ensured that the old pals act still operates across comedy now as it did with tarby/brucey/ronny and vic/bob/wossy etc - bbc3 as it was originally intended was supposed to be a place for experimentation and risk taking but with C4 and the BBC (even digital channels) running scared of the daily heil brigade, a culture of cowardice and complacency has succeeded in castrating homegrown comedy. funny to read people like whitehouse and higson pretending that it was difficult to get third rate shite like bellamy's people commissioned - yeah and 'harry and paul' would've got the green light if it wasn't enfield and whitehouse behind it. these self-absorbed whoppers actually believe they're part of the alternative not just another set of industry insiders.

but I had to post this somewhere and I can't be arsed reading the whole thread.
This is an acrticle on The Quietus today and features a clip from 'Curry & Chips' which has to be seen to be believed.
http://thequietus.com/articles/03687-box-fresh-emma-johnston-on-the-worl...