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Bowie "lost" TOTP appearance unearthed

jezk's picture

Quite exciting, to be shown on BBC4 in the new year it says here... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16150178
Any other lost tv things you wish would show up?

0

well...

...there's the 1972 BBC2 Quintessence concert from a Cathedral (Norwich, I think)...

And the Mahavishnu Orchestra's missing June 1973 performance in a Paris TV studio, of course...

And Jan Akkerman's solo studio session with lute on OGWT (the ONLY one of several Akkerman/Focus OGWT sessions to be missing)...

And, for nostalgia - because I was mesmerised by it at the time and have never seen a clip since (hence assume it's lost) - David Attenburgh's early 70s childrens' series 'Fabulous Animals'.

0
Colin H | 13 December 2011 - 5:35pm

I'm pretty sure that 'Fabulous Animals' still exists.

Fortean Times ran a feature on it a year or so back.

0
Paolo Meccano | 14 December 2011 - 3:56pm

Ah, fantastic!

...I wonder why it's not been packaged up on DVD yet with other Attenborough miscellany? Anything with his name on it seems to be a goldmine. I bought the 'Attenborough In Paradise' DVD set of various docs a couple of years back specifically for his amazing 'Lost Gods Of Easter Island' film - but it's all watchable, of course...

0
Colin H | 14 December 2011 - 4:00pm
Paolo Meccano | 14 December 2011 - 10:01pm

To echo the Rocking Vicar

The boys were discussing the old 'Marc' series from 1977 on their podcast this week.

If only those six episodes could find their way onto DVD...

0
Paul Waring | 13 December 2011 - 5:36pm

What, these ones?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marc-DVD/dp/B000BSQQXG/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&...

I've not listened to this week's podcast yet, so apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick there.

0
yorkio | 13 December 2011 - 5:47pm

Yep, those ones!

Never trust anything a vicar tells you. Particularly if they 'rock'.

EDIT: Ah, apparently these are just the Marc performances - none of the guest performances appear to have made it onto DVD. What they (and I) are looking for are the full, unexpurgated series of six shows.

0
Paul Waring | 13 December 2011 - 6:00pm

Wrong end of stick duly grasped…

Sorry about that. I must confess, I suspect I've got the same version as DogFacedBoy* and I assumed the retail version was probably the same too.

* All six shows plus some odds and sods from Supersonic etc. Same as yours, DFB?

0
yorkio | 13 December 2011 - 6:55pm

I think ...

... I have them all somewhere.

0
dai | 13 December 2011 - 7:18pm

Wrong end of the Stick duly grasped?

Does he mind?

1
badger_king | 13 December 2011 - 7:27pm

That

only contains Marc's performances on the show and not any of the other bands.

I have em on DVd of course (coughs)

0
DogFacedBoy | 13 December 2011 - 6:01pm

Ah Mr Boy...

...a thread that had your name written all over it. I was hoping you'd show up soon!

Are you still planning on attending the international meet in Liverpool in January? Because if you are...

The orange juice would definitely be on me!

0
Paul Waring | 13 December 2011 - 6:04pm

Yep

by hook or by crook I hope to be there

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DogFacedBoy | 13 December 2011 - 7:06pm

Excellent.

If you could manage to see your way to a Marc set, gratefulness and recompense will be yours. Perhaps in the form of a tour of Liverpool's Fab (and not so Fab) landmarks?

0
Paul Waring | 13 December 2011 - 7:22pm

I'll put out a call for

boot requests nearer the time and no doubt get nabbed by the bizzies on my wayinto the 'pool, la

0
DogFacedBoy | 13 December 2011 - 8:33pm

Don't forget

to take off those nice alloy wheels before you go and put the old scuffed ones on.

0
el toro calvo grande | 22 December 2011 - 4:20pm

The fabled 2nd La's album

would be nice.

0
phil spector | 13 December 2011 - 6:20pm

Mmmm......

.....it's time for a Dennis Potter season, methinks.

0
ranger | 13 December 2011 - 6:21pm

Not Only... But Also...

There's plenty of old Dr Who lying around, but only a couple of episodes of Pete and Dud at their innocent and charming best.

0
Qmoq | 13 December 2011 - 6:59pm

To be fair, there's more than a couple

There were three series of Not Only But Also and I think roughly half the episodes survive on film and/or VT. ALL the episodes exist as audio recordings, many were recovered in the last year or so.

Let's hope we get to see/hear them again one day...

1
Barry Vaughan | 13 December 2011 - 7:28pm

Plenty of Doctor Who

but episode 4 of 'The Tenth Planet' (for non nerds final Hartnell story and first ever regeneration) would be nice.

It could still happen!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16136521

I've seen the badly damaged clip of Syd era Floyd doing See Emily play on TOTP, be nice to get some more 60's TOTPs

The BBC should be prosecuted ofr throwing away large chunks of the national culture. Bastards

2
DogFacedBoy | 13 December 2011 - 7:10pm

The cultural vandalism

the BBC perpetrated in wiping '60s TOTP to save on tape still makes me seethe.

0
ianess | 13 December 2011 - 10:19pm

Scott Walker's fabled TV Show would be good

Or even just some UK releases for these:

Wondershowzen
Next Day Air
Haven
Def Poetry Jam

All still only available in Region 1. I will get a multi-region player at some point, but in the mean time. Grrr.

0
badger_king | 13 December 2011 - 7:29pm

It was probably the presence of totty pervulations like THIS

that led to the cameraman having the footage in the first place. I can only assumed that Pan's People must have been in tip-top form for him to have snaffled parts of that particular episode.

(The above, by the way, is the oldest surviving colour footage - or frottage - from the TOTP "archives").

3
Pax Romana | 13 December 2011 - 7:31pm

So how old...

...does that make Emma Bunton now, then?

1
madfox | 14 December 2011 - 5:19pm

Coincidentally...

the head man of said pop group recently leched at my gf who was working in the Hard Rock Berlin until recently!

0
Melrose Ape | 19 December 2011 - 8:35pm

Having studied that clip closely,

I'm shocked at the unprofessional, lazy left wing fashion in which we are forced to endure a distinct lack of focus during the second cleavage zoom at 1:23. This man should not be employed by our national broadcaster. Sweaty palms is no excuse. This is typical of the shoddy trots who run the BBC. This man's wages come from our licence fee for God's sake! etc.

2
Vulpes Vulpes | 22 December 2011 - 9:26am

I'm surprised

You have the strength left to type :-)

0
FakeGeordie | 23 December 2011 - 1:24pm

And what about...

That BBC play with Bob Dylan? I'm no Dylan aficionado, but even I've heard plenty much about it. Could he act? How was his singing?

0
Qmoq | 13 December 2011 - 9:06pm

Madhouse On Castle Street

it was called.

Here's an audio clip from it


Bob Dylan/Ballad Of The Gliding Swan

0
stimpy | 13 December 2011 - 9:29pm

The BBC bastards

wiped this around '67/'68 when it had become obvious that Dylan was one of the greatest artists of his generation.

1
ianess | 13 December 2011 - 10:22pm

ATM - the international meet in Liverpool in January?

Details please folks...

0
jackthebiscuit | 13 December 2011 - 9:11pm

Ship & Mitre

At the tunnel end of Dale Street.

27 Jan if memory serves.

Be there Les - it will be ACE. We have the Irish, the Swedish, and the Suvverners looking likely.

Be gutted if you don't make it, my friend.

0
Paul Waring | 13 December 2011 - 10:14pm

Beatles on Juke Box Jury.

I have the complete audio on CD...so surely the video must exist somewhere??

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eddie g | 13 December 2011 - 9:27pm

I think it may.

I remember reading that the audio had been recorded and mute, home-shot footage had been discovered, leading to speculation that the two would be synchronised.

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Paolo Meccano | 14 December 2011 - 3:59pm

The Likely Lads

10 episodes "lost".
I always think they survive in Australia or New Zealand somewhere.

0
Sour Crout | 13 December 2011 - 9:36pm

Disc a Dawn

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Dr.Pill | 13 December 2011 - 9:37pm

Not a music one but . .

I would love to see Spike Milligan's "The Last Laugh before TV-AM" again. I remember it as being profoundly weird!

1
Dion Ashton | 13 December 2011 - 9:42pm

The cameraman concerned was interviewed on last Sunday's

Johnny Walker Sounds of the 70's show on Radio 2. Sounds like he has some other stuff in his archive, hopefully TOTP from the same era. Anything from the mainly wiped 72-75 era would be cracking.

0
Almost Simon | 13 December 2011 - 10:01pm

Can anyone confirm the "urban legend"...

... that the BBC point-blank refuses to pay anything for any "found" archive footage? This has long been given as the reason why so much remains hidden away by amateur archivists, but I've often wondered if this was actually true... and in which case, has this cameraman indicated whether he's been paid for this clip (and the "hundreds" of others he apparently has), or whether he just let the Beeb have it gratis...?

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Metal Mickey | 22 December 2011 - 3:41pm

Infamously

they refused point blank to pay for the Beatles at the BBC tapes that collectors had on the basis "that as we broadcast them they belong to us". Ignoring the fact that they junked and burnt all their copies. So the "Beatles At the BBC" CD remained unreleased until they or Apple stumped up some cash.

And of course its still not in any way close to as interestinga s the bootleg BBC sets.

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DogFacedBoy | 22 December 2011 - 3:52pm

I know that the BBC aren't interested in any...

...lost tapes that they can't make any money out of. There's a lot more which survived than people think.

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Paolo Meccano | 22 December 2011 - 4:08pm

I've no info on that point, Mickmeister...

...but I'd guess that the BBC is now such a bureaucratic organisation that they simply wouldn't have a mechanism for purchasing old tapes.

Paul Pierrot, whose production company produced the C4 series 'Juke Box Heroes' on various 50s/60s acts, told me once they'd become as much archivists as producers, given the stuff they were digging up (audio and visual) from non official sources. But I suspect his company has gone out of business now so, alas, stuff in non-official repositoties slips from view again...

One 'amusing' side-effect of independently sourced BBC audio appearing on CDs is that the BBC still have to be paid a license fee, sometimes a significant sum, for its use - despite not being able to supply the material directly. I was involved some years ago in putting together the (splendid!) 1968-93 Duffy Power anthology of BBC sessions 'Sky Blues' - and EVERYTHING on it was sourced from collectors, former producers, etc. All gave freely (though alas we couldn't/wouldn't pay the £1000 one guy wanted for a 1967 Duffy/McLaughlin/Thompson/Cox World Service session mastertape); the BBC was paid.

I don't begrudge that - they paid for the original recordings after all. But it gets morally more questionable in my view when a third party label (Universal) can stymie a smaller label dealing directly with an artist and with exclusive access to independently sourced BBC audio of that artist simply because that artist was on a Universal owned label at the time the BBC recording was made.

2
Colin H | 22 December 2011 - 4:13pm

Any idea why it's so difficult to

find a CD containing the very different version of Light Flight by Pentangle that was used for the theme tune to 'Take Three Girls'?

It's on the Strange Fruit BBC Worldwide CD (thirty quid secondhand if you're lucky) called Pentangle On Air, along with a performance of the standard lyric version, but that's the only place I've ever seen it, despite the fact that I'd have thought it was something any Pentangle collector would want a copy of.

0
Vulpes Vulpes | 23 December 2011 - 1:41pm

It was never recorded 'for release'...

...in the theme tune version (which only lasted 90 seconds or whatever). The single release was a rewrite with three sections (starting with the one section used in the TV version, but new lyrics) and obviously lengthened enough to be a typical single-length. I imagine the BBC session version is the only time they played the 'original' version bar the 'Take Three Girls' theme recording session. I daresay the opening credits are on youtube somewhere. I no longer own any P*******e related music so I can't help you with a copy, I'm afraid...

0
Colin H | 23 December 2011 - 3:22pm

More "lost" TOTP footage?

Not as thrilling as Jean Genie, but I know that Bowie recorded Time Will Crawl for TOTP but this was not shown because the single went down the charts. TOTP used to have strict rules around the fact that the single must be in the charts already and be going up. Makes me wonder how many other songs were recorded but not used?

1
Austin | 13 December 2011 - 10:09pm
DogFacedBoy | 13 December 2011 - 10:49pm

Yes!

I should clarify that I have seen it, probably on TOTP2, but I presume it was only of interest because it was Bowie. Did other artists also get their follow-up singles in the TOTP "can", only to find that it was never used?

0
Austin | 14 December 2011 - 2:04am

'Nice Time'

with Kenny Ev, Germaine Greer and Jonathan Routh. Do these exist?
Did the BBC also wipe all the various 'alternative' music shows they screened with Barry Fantoni, John Peel et al?

0
ianess | 13 December 2011 - 10:26pm

Be nice if Mr Dave Clark

could relax about RSG!

2
Mr Fade | 13 December 2011 - 10:37pm

at that same NFT Missing Believed Wiped

I saw the Floyd clip at was a great Midlands pop show from 1980 called 'Look! Hear!' which despite being a bit "Nosing Around" had some great acts - Sabbath with that bloke who joined for a week while Ozzy left, Diamond Head, Magnum (err), The Selecter and The Beat.

Was in blisteringly good quality (thanks to one of the presenters asking a tech for copies at the time) and I'd stump up cash for a DVD of that. Shame that unlike 'Revolver' it hasn't had a satellite repeat.

0
DogFacedBoy | 13 December 2011 - 10:47pm

Jazz 625

There are loads of great Jazz 625 shows from the mid 60s that were wiped by BBC philistines. A few survive and are rolled out on the extremely rare occasions when the BBC broadcasts any jazz. Not that I'm bitter or anything...
And there was also a series called 'Jazz Goes To College' which has also disappeared.

0
jazzjet | 13 December 2011 - 10:50pm

It was never really feasible...

...that everything could be kept, even in the era when things could be recorded by the stations rather than broadcast live. But it's deeply regrettable that even a 'representative sample' policy wasn't operating at the BBC (the national/public service broadcaster, after all) during the 60s/70s.

For there to be so very few clips of 1960s TOTPs, just to give that one (well known) example is breath-taking. The Beatles et al were off conquering the world and changing society while the organ of the state was routinely destroying the evidence. Astounding stupidity.

That said, I've never been convinced that the Beatles appearance on Juke Box Jury - often mentioned as a Beatles Holy Grail - is a tragic loss. It's four guys on a panel talking about other people's records, and in any case off-air audio and stills exist. It was essentially a 'radio format' with not much to see - so I really don't believe history is worse off for its visual loss. We should, rather, be thankful that the Granada 1962 cavern footage was kept along with so much else from their performing career.

It's live performances, I think, that we should lament most - alongside, of course, representative moving-image (even if only mimed) material from artists all-but or totally missing from the visual record.

I've said before here that it's a tragedy - and, in a way, a subtle skewing of how the music past is viewed by future generations - that not one second of Johnny Kidd & The Pirates on film exists today, despite many TV appearances. Conversely, two of the three (from memory) extant Dickie Pride clips - generally regarded as the most gifted of the Larry Parnes stable, who (like Kidd) died young - are live performances of the same song.

Personally, I think its a shame that no vintage Duffy Power TV appearances (and he made many) seem to exist and I've tried but failed to locate a series of performances Anne Briggs - the greatest of all the British folk revival singers of the 60s - made on a regional ITV magazine show somewhere in the West Country, which would be the only film of her performing in her prime were it to still exist.

Likewise, Bert Jansch's TV debut in 1966 performing 'Needle Of Death' on a regional religious programme is long gone, as is a more dimly recalled solo appearance a year or so later on ITV and his only solo appearance on BBC's 'Once More With Felix' in 1970. The very earliest solo BJ extant is a brief 1967 interview and instrumental rehearsal with John Renbourn kept by Danish TV. Nothing then (bar the relative handful, vis a vis their slew of known worldwide appearances, of Pentangle clips) until 1974.

A representative sample (from memory, 11 episodes) of OGWT forerunner 'Disco 2' episodes does survive - we often see clips from the Small Faces and Moody Blues performances, for instance. But sadly not the half-hour taped by the first line up of Jethro Tull, which would be its only moving-image record (bar 30 seconds of Pathe verite from a Hyde Park concert) were it to have escaped the cull.

We should be grateful, then, that someone pointed an 8mm camera at a TV screen when Jimi Hendrix played live with Dusty Springfield on her (now gone) ITV series in 1968 - seeing this one-off bit of magic is like triumphing over the philistines, after all. Or at least salvaging something from the rubble.

3
Colin H | 14 December 2011 - 12:19am

'Stupidity'

is being much too kind. It was abundantly clear at the time that the cultural scene was undergoing massive change and, even more amazingly, that it was being spearheaded by British artists. These tapes were wiped on purpose by snobbish, high culture aficionados at the BBC who despised pop. German TV hung on to 'Beat Club' and the Americans were financially astute enough to preserve all their classic shows.
Thankfully, they've preserved myriad Trooping the Colour and hundreds of tapes of assorted, forgotten politicians pontificating at length over some forgotten issue.
As you state, it is terribly sad that there is no footage of the charismatic Johnny Kidd.

1
ianess | 14 December 2011 - 1:43am

As they junked their recordings

of the BBC's live broadcast of the Apollo 11 moon landing, obviously not condsidered historically important, then its a surprise than anything was left

I beliwve that the OGWT footage only exists cos Mike Appleton regularly used to the countermand any attempts to bin the film. Maybe one of the chaps can verify?

0
DogFacedBoy | 14 December 2011 - 2:33am

Not the only ones

If I remember correctly NASA have lost their high quality recordings of the moon landings. Which strikes me as especially stupid.

0
paulwright | 22 December 2011 - 9:53am

Yes I think that's right

I was reading about that recently. Absolutely astounding.

0
Stephen Merrick | 22 December 2011 - 10:41am

Where's Dave Amitri?

Surely he wasn't involved?

0
FakeGeordie | 22 December 2011 - 10:50am

And which conspiracy theorists

declare supports their claim that man never went there anyway.

0
B Smith | 22 December 2011 - 11:25am

TOTP 2 tonight!

The 'lost' Bowie performance is being shown in a TOTP 2 Christmas Special tonight on BBC2 at 7.30pm!

0
minibreakfast | 21 December 2011 - 7:31pm

Hope

they lose the "hilarious" captions and commentary for Christmas

3
DogFacedBoy | 21 December 2011 - 7:39pm

Enough with the 1981 Wizzard clip already....

...we want some 1973. Talking of which, very much looking forward to Bowie...

0
Happy Castle | 21 December 2011 - 8:32pm

Live an' all

Wow.

0
Happy Castle | 21 December 2011 - 8:46pm

Bowie

Wowie!!!

0
wezz | 21 December 2011 - 8:49pm

Post-Bowie come down

Trying not to think of what the BBC has wiped...that was absolutely magical.

0
Happy Castle | 21 December 2011 - 9:00pm

Bowie 73

Just watched it on the BBC 10 o clock news.

I thought it was brilliant.

What other treats does this cameraman have waiting to see the light of day?

0
jackthebiscuit | 21 December 2011 - 11:47pm

Here it is

for those who missed it

Was sooooo exciting to see this. Wish Mark Radcliffe had shut teh fuck up, we didn't have those dumb captions and it wasn't, as someone said on Twitter, "filmed by the work experience lad" but wowzer, wowzer, wowzer.

Oh and here is the Dame performing it at teh Marquee for the shelved 1980 Floor Show US TV Special.*

* a nicely edited 4 DVD set of rehearsals and takes is out there people......

3
DogFacedBoy | 21 December 2011 - 11:59pm

And, pedantic it may be, but...

... they didn't have to fade out the final few seconds. Aaarghh!

0
Happy Castle | 22 December 2011 - 12:37am

Completely agree.

Though I suspect it's in part to preserve the full clip for future release in a package of some sort.

I'd missed the fact that this was coming on, and just happened to turn on the idiot box as the clip started; I glanced at a close up of Ronno and realised that what I was hearing was what he was actually playing. I sat down, agape, to drink it all in. My wife strolled into the room and did the same. Effortless brilliance.

1
Vulpes Vulpes | 22 December 2011 - 9:42am

Great clip

so much to enjoy: the freshness of the song to the band as much as anything; the perils of having Woody sit out front so they can't look at each other for the changes; a great close-up of Trevor Bolder's sideburns! Interesting to note that Bowie adopted the Love Me Do reference from when they first started performing JG live.

BTW DFB, I have really enjoyed watching the 50th birthday show. Thanks

0
Nick Duvet | 22 December 2011 - 12:50am

Not a problem

why Jeff Beck asked for this to be cut from the Ziggy film. I'll never know. His trousers weren't that bad

2
DogFacedBoy | 22 December 2011 - 12:56am

I still have the cassette boot of the farewell concert

nice to see the movie clip after all this time

0
Nick Duvet | 22 December 2011 - 1:15am

That was incredible

I've actually rarely seen footage of Bowie performing live, as I always preferred his studio recordings. But that's put me in the mood for watching more.

And it was LIVE as well??? When I heard they had found footage I just assumed it was standard TOTP miming footage. How often in those days did acts actually play live? I've been watching the 1976 episodes and as far as I remember everyone has been miming so far.

0
Stephen Merrick | 22 December 2011 - 10:51am

Hearing that, I can't help thinking...

...of this:

Yardbirds - I'm A Man (live 1967):

1
Colin H | 22 December 2011 - 12:10am

It's a common

bluesy trope, that stomping riff. Which became a staple of the glam rock era.

0
Stephen Merrick | 22 December 2011 - 10:53am

Indeed...

...but I was put in mind particularly of the Yardbirds version not only for the riff but the harmonica/vocal phrasings and the lead guitar stabs and tone. Let's not forget, Dave was obviously a YB fan (see: 'Pin Ups')...

0
Colin H | 22 December 2011 - 10:59am

Actually I think the nick is from a James Brown song

That Bowie was playing live at the time.

He did it again with 'Fame' which is also a straight nick from James Brown.

Both great records and I suppose you can say that the riff is only part of the picture. I haven't got time to do the Googling but my brother is an even bigger Bowie nut that me and he'll know - will try & get back...

0
FakeGeordie | 23 December 2011 - 1:21pm

JB ripped-off Bowie.

Fame came before this:-

0
Paolo Meccano | 23 December 2011 - 1:56pm

as Bowie ripped off Footstompin

not that he was shy about it

0
DogFacedBoy | 23 December 2011 - 1:58pm

Yep - Footstomping = a jam that turrned into Fame

Lennon heard Alomar playing it in the studio when he dropped by - Bowie was playing it live at the time but maybe Lennon didn't know teh tune? Anyway his enthusiasm for it turned into a jam and then into the song.

I've dug about at 'Jean Genie' but I might have got that wrong. "I'm A Man" is a Yardbirds cover of a Bo Diddley song.

Reminds me of Harrison getting a bit defensive about 'I Feel Fine' vs. 'Watch Your Step' - some keys and some chords are going to throw up some similar riffs

0
FakeGeordie | 23 December 2011 - 2:41pm

Oh and Ronson, what a player!

This was recorded shortly before he died in a deserted Hammy O, the scene of Ziggy's final bow

1
DogFacedBoy | 22 December 2011 - 12:24am

I remember you posting that before...

It made me genuinely weep the first time it was on TV (was he already very ill? I think so). Good series too. Thanks again...

0
FakeGeordie | 22 December 2011 - 10:53am

I think Ronno

might even as passed on when the show was broadcast. Shame the series isn't available on DVD, I'm guessing rights issues is why.

0
DogFacedBoy | 22 December 2011 - 3:57pm
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