But not necessarily because of Rafa. Mid table, only chance of sliverware the UEFA (assuming we lose to MUFC in the cup, which is fairly likely), Roy needs to impress the management quickly.
I'd like to see Roy kept on at least until the end of the season. We're not going down, we're not going to win anything and Henry is unlikely to spend in January, so what would be the point in sacking him?
He has taken over a relatively poor squad of players and the big guns have been in and out of the side with injury. I'd not like to see Liverpool become the sort of club who turf out managers at the drop of a hat. I think he deserves a full season at the very least.
Remember Rafa's milkman John? Well, I work with his sister and she says Rafa's been home long enough to have given John his usual Harrod's hamper as a Christmas box...
Benitez has any idea how much of a joke figure he has become?
At Liverpool all he did was whinge about not being given money to buy players, and yet when money was available he absolutely wasted it on the biggest pile of mediocrity anyone has ever seen.
There was an excellent post on the Guardian blog yesterday which listed the nonentities he bought after Torres and Benayoun, and they are:
Apparently one of the players he wanted to bring to treble-winning Inter was Dirk Kuyt!
So Inter have had a few injuries. Don't all clubs have injuries? He's paid to manage around these difficulties, not just buy his way out of any problems.
And then, having beaten the champions of South Korea and the Congo to become "World Club Champions", to put alongside his Italian Super Cup triumph (i.e. Charity Shield), he thinks it's a good time to lay down an ultimatum to his boss. Talk about misjudging the situation!
Honestly, if you were chairman of Inter would give him your cheque book in the January transfer window, or would you give him a well deserved kick out of the front door?
He went on to win the FA Cup in 2006, reached the Champions League final in 2007 and finished 2nd in the Prem in 2009. Harry Redknapp is currently getting fawned over for much less.
Benitez. Partly the previous owners. Part of me would have him back, but part of me thinks that era is best left as it is. It'd be a bit 'Keegan' to get him back.
how the previous owners are even partly to blame. Look at that list of donkeys I posted above. Do you think Hicks or Gillett sidled up to Benitez one day in training and said "I hear that boy Ngog is a bit of a player so I've bought him for you"?
Bottom line, he bought a load of dross and paid a lot of money for it too. The buck for that squad stops with Benitez but you'll never convince him of that. As Mark Lawrensen said last night on Radio 5, nothing was ever Benitez's fault.
Though Rafa chose most of his buys, the club refused to sanction a number of transfers, including that of Gareth Barry. So although Rafa must bear the brunt of the blame, I reckon the squad would've been improved slightly had the club not restricted him.
Now, let's look at that list:
Itandje (Reserve 'keeper. Hardly any first team action as our current 'keeper, Benitez-buy Reina, is one of the best in the world)
Nemeth (Youth team striker. Scored bags of goals at youth level but looks like he'll fail to make the grade.)
Voronin (Granted, rubbish)
Babel (Looked tremendous as a youngster. Crap now, granted)
Insua (Not a bad player. Won Olympic gold win Argentina. Played regularly in the 2008/09 runner-up year. Lacked pace.)
Plessis (Rubbish, but like many in this list, a youth player rather than a fully-fledged signing)
Skrtel (Decent centre-half, Captained the team the other night)
Degen (Half-decent players but suffered a catastrophic string of injuries and hardly played)
Dossena (Rubbish, aye)
Cavalieri (Another reserve goalie, looked alright when called upon)
Ngog (Youth player again. Leading goalscorer this season)
Keane (Bizarre buy, alledgedly brough in over Rafa's head)
Flora (Never heard of him!)
Riera (Looked alright. Decent squad player.)
Palsson (Youth player, know little about him)
Johnson (A defender who can't defend)
Aquilani (Very good player, but injury prone. Too much of a gamble, bad buy)
Rodriguez (Great player).
Kyrgiakos (Signed as cover when Agger got injured and Hyypia had left. Ended up a regular in the team, does alright, gets goals)
What your agenda exactly is, Johan. Is it informed by a genuine love of football or a desire to stick the boot in on Rafa? As a Red, I'd just say 'Istanbul,' and disregard anything else you say. Play on.
Apart from his useless signings, demands for more money, the worst thing about this despicable Fat Spanish Waiter is his total lack of class, humilility and good grace in defeat. At least when the fast-declining former champions of Europe get beaten these days, Woy has the good grace to face the cameras and admit that that they were beaten by a team who played better than them on the day. Benitez would refuse to shake the oposition manager's hand, blame everyone but himself or his players, never quite managing to look the interviewer in the eye. A horrible, arrogant man and part of me would love him to go back to Liverpool, or even better, go to Blackburn and get sacked after a few months by their ruthless owners.
Okay, I admit it, I'm an Evertonian. But no-one has done more than Benitez in damaging the formerly good natured relations between Red & Blue on Merseyside than this clown.
For reinforcing the bitter blue stereotype Baz. This forum is an unusually friendly place, but when talk turns to football it becomes as much a bearpit as anywhere else on t'net.
To be fair, "blame everyone but himself or his players" applies to most managers, especially the good ones. And I'd include David "referee rage" Moyes in that. I've got a lot of time for Roy Hodgeson, but something tells me an arrogant coach might be a better option than one who's a good loser - at any club.
Feel like I should address the balance a bit. Apologies, I've copied this from somewhere else but please read before you slag Rafa's Liverpool record off...
Benitez FACTS
August 2004 – January 2010
2004-05
In his 1st home game in charge (Man City) Liverpool came from behind at half-time to win a game for the first time in more than 5 years.
At Fulham (October 2004) the Reds came from behind at half-time to win an away game for the 1st time in 13 years.
Liverpool became the 1st British club to ‘keep’ the European Cup following a 5th Final success.
Steven Gerrard became the 2nd youngest player to captain a European Cup winning team.
2005-06
Became only the 3rd team, and the 1st British side, to win the European Super Cup 3 times.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player in history to score in 5 successive European matches.
Kept clean sheets in each of their opening 4 league games for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Sami Hyypia played in a 56th consecutive European game – breaking the club record for an outfield player (he extended that record to 57).
Liverpool set a new club record of 11 consecutive clean sheets (Oct-Dec 2005).
Went 762 minutes without conceding a league goal (a post-war club record).
Won 10 league games in a row for the 1st time in 15 years.
At Luton Liverpool scored 5 goals in an away F.A. Cup tie for the 1st time in 59 years.
Liverpool beat Manchester United for the 1st time in the F.A. Cup for 85 years.
Recorded their biggest ever away win in the F.A. Cup (7-0 at Birmingham) and the biggest by any team away from home in the Quarter-Finals for 106 years.
Conceded only 8 league goals at home – their 3rd best total ever.
Set a club record of 12 successive wins in all competitions (it was extended to 14 at the start of the following season).
By lifting the F.A. Cup became the 1st manager in the club’s history to win a trophy in each of his first 2 seasons in charge.
Set a club record of 21 goals scored by substitutes in a season – previous record was 12.
Achieved the 6th-highest accumulation of available league points in the club’s history, and at the time, the 2nd-highest ever number of wins (as a % of games played)
2006-07
Recorded his 50th league win in just 93 games – a record bettered by only 2 Liverpool managers of the previous 57 years, Dalglish and Shankly.
Went unbeaten in 30 successive home league games for only the 4th time in their history.
Scored 4 goals in the 1st half of an away league game (at Wigan) for the 1st time in 15 years.
Pepe Reina kept more clean sheets in his first 50 league games (28) than any other goalkeeper in the club’s history.
Jamie Carragher played in a club record 58th game in the European Cup.
Jamie Carragher made a club record 90th appearance in all European competition.
Conceded only 7 league goals at home – best total for 28 years.
Only second English side to win in Nou Camp (previous one was Liverpool in 1976).
Reached second Champions League final in three seasons. (If ‘lucky’ to win in 2005, the Reds were ‘unlucky’ to lose in 2007.)
2007-08
Beat Besiktas 8-0 to record the biggest ever Champions League victory.
Scored 4 goals in a game on 8 occasions before Christmas for only the 3rd time in club’s history.
Steven Gerrard scored his 23rd European goal – to break the club record.
Pepe Reina kept his 50th league clean sheet in his 92nd appearance – breaking club record of 95 held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player ever to score in 5 successive European games in the same season.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player in 62 years to a hat-trick in successive home league games.
Jamie Carragher became the 1st Liverpool player to play 100 European games for the club.
Fernando Torres became the 1st player in 12 years to score 20 league goals for the club.
Pepe Reina kept 54 clean sheets in his first 100 league games to break the club record held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 4 successive home European games.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 7 successive top-flight home league games.
Rafa Benitez won 81 of his first 150 league games in charge. Only Kenny Dalglish (87) won more as Liverpool manager.
Ryan Babel equalled the club record of most goals in a season scored by a substitute (7).
Liverpool had 6 players who scored 10 goals or more in a season. Only the 3rd time this had happened in the club’s history.
Fernando Torres equalled the club record by scoring in an 8th successive home league game (all divisions).
Fernando Torres scored 24 league goals – most by any Liverpool player in a debut season for 61 years.
Fernando Torres broke Ruud Van Nistelrooy’s record of most goals in a debut Premier league season by an overseas player.
Pepe Reina won the Golden Glove for the 3rd successive season.
Liverpool scored 119 goals in the season – more than any team in England.
2008-09
In 2008 recorded their highest points tally in a calendar year (81) for 18 years.
Liverpool won 9 successive home league games for the 1st time since November 1990.
Fernando Torres became the club’s 2nd highest ever scorer in his first 50 games (34 goals).
Ryan Babel became the club’s 2nd highest ever goalscoring substitute (with 8 goals).
Liverpool came from behind to defeat Manchester United in the league for the 1st time in 42 years.
End Chelsea’s 84-game unbeaten home record.
Became only the 2nd English team to win in the Bernabeu.
At Anfield inflicted upon Real Madrid their biggest ever Champions League defeat.
Steven Gerrard became only the 2nd Liverpool player to play 100 times for the club in Europe.
Recorded their biggest win at Old Trafford for 72 years. It was also the 1st time 4 Liverpool players had scored at United in the same game.
Led the table for the 1st time ever in the Premiership with 2 games to play.
Broke Bill Shankly’s record of 65 European matches as Liverpool manager.
Broke Bob Paisley’s record of 40 European wins as Liverpool manager.
Recorded his 100th league win as manager in his 181st game. It was the 3rd quickest ever by a Liverpool manager and 50 games faster than Alex Ferguson.
Equalled club record set in 1904-05 by winning 13 away league games.
Amassed their highest points total ever in the Premier League (86) beating the 82 set in 2005-06. Their highest in the league since 1987-88.
Scored at least 3 goals in 6 successive games in all competitions for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Finished the campaign with a goal difference of + 50 – their best for 21 years when they amassed + 63 in 1987-88.
Lost just twice in the league – equalling the fewest they had lost in a league campaign for 105 years.
Fernando Torres scored 33 goals in his first 50 league games for the club – the best by any Liverpool player for 52 years.
Pepe Reina kept his 100th clean sheet in the fastest time in Liverpool history (197 games).
Won 75% of all available league points – 2nd highest in the club’s history.
The highest number of points by any team which failed to win the league (38 game seasons)
2009-10
Went unbeaten in 31 home league games – their 3rd longest ever run and best for 32 years.
Against Manchester United recorded his 114th league win in his 200th game. The 2nd best tally by any Liverpool manager in first 200 league games (Kenny Dalglish 120 wins).
Liverpool won a 3rd successive league game at Everton for only 3rd time in club’s history.
Yossi Benayoun scored a hat-trick against Burnley to become only the 5th player in the club’s history to score a hat-trick in 3 different competitions.
Pepe Reina set a new club record of most clean sheets (79) in first 150 league games.
Liverpool scored 22 goals in opening 7 league games – best tally for 114 years and 2nd best ever.
Broke club record by scoring in an 18th successive Premier League game at Anfield.
Fernando Torres broke the club record by scoring his 50th league goal for Liverpool in just his 72nd match.
In addition, here are some statistics relating to the eight Liverpool managers over the past 50 years.
Win %
Rafa Benítez
League – Played 212, won 56.13% (currently 2nd-highest % for any post-war Liverpool manager)
Europe – Played 77, won 55.84% (currently 3rd-highest % for any Liverpool manager)
Gerard Houllier
League – Played 216, won 50.00%
Europe – Played 52 , won 50.00%
Roy Evans
League – Played 172, won 48.26%
Europe – Played 16 8, won 50.00%
Graeme Sounes
League – Played 115, won 40.87%
Europe – Played 12 6, won 50.00%
Kenny Dalglish
League – Played 224, won 60.71%
Joe Fagan
League – Played 84, won 52.38%
Europe – Played 19 , won 68.42%
Bob Paisley
League – Played 378, won 56.08%
Europe – Played 61 , won 63.93%
Bill Shankly
League – Played 609, won 52.38%
Europe – Played 65 , won 52.31%
Progress From Predecessor?
Although it never appeared in the book, for Dynasty I compared the league records of all eight managers since 1959, with the first season’s points removed from their average tally. This first season total was removed because some managers inherited successful sides, and others inherited struggling sides; as such, I wanted a less-skewed figure for their performance.
Once Liverpool were struggling from 1991 onwards, the worst points tally posted by each of Evans (60), Houllier (54) and Benítez (58) was in their first season. By contrast, Joe Fagan, by inheriting a world-class team, had his best total in his inaugural season. The same applies to Graeme Souness (I’ve also excluded incomplete seasons if the manager left before the end).
So, when removing the first season – giving each man a season’s grace, if you will – the following figures are their average league points tallies; where a predecessor is listed in brackets it means they improved on the man before them. Currently Benítez has the greatest improvement by any Liverpool manager, but that will drop slightly if Liverpool do not reach 78 points in this campaign.
1 Paisley av. 83 (predecessor av. 77)
2 Dalglish av. 81 (predecessor av. 77)
3 Benítez av. 78 (predecessor av. 68)
4 Shankly av. 77
5 Fagan av. 77
5 Evans av. 70 (predecessor av. 61)
7 Houllier av. 68
8 Souness av. 61
So anyone who says that the club has gone backwards since the days of Houllier (that includes you, Danny Murphy) is wrong; the facts suggest a big improvement
I'm not a Benitez fan - or basher - but I do like to keep a sense of perspective.
Let's be honest, you can throw out most of the European statistics. There are many many more European games each season, and against a generally lower class of opposition than Paisley, or Shankly, would have had to have faced.
So he won 55% of his European games. Now take out the games played against the European equivalent of the Under 11 blind school, and what's his true record?
Beating Besiktas 8-0. Besiktas who have got out of the Qualifying Group on one occasion since the new format Champions League started.
They had to beat Moenchengladbach in 1977, the reigning German champions.
I'm not sure that Haifa have gotten out of the Qualifying Group.
The point I was trying - albeit unsuccessfully - is that the statistics are skewed by the presence of weaker teams, and more games being played. You put those factors together and the appearance of success becomes a lot easier.
As I type Liverpool are getting beat at home by Wolves and are nestling in the bottom half of the table. On Rafa's watch we reached two Champions League finals in three years, winning one. You put those factors together and the concept of Rafa being a good boss becomes a lot easier.
I have to respect anyone who stands as articulately as you do for someone they believe in.
but your reasoning is suspect, I think.
Winning the Champions League was an achievement, no denying that. But the fact that they are struggling just now doesn't affect how one reviews Rafa's achievements. You could persuasively argue that the substandard players Hodgson is struggling with is down to Benitez's forays into the transfer market.
My memory is dodgy on this, but didn't Hodgson struggle season one at Fulham before turning it around there?
I think you're right to say that Roy is working under much different conditions now than Rafa experienced in his good years at the club. Put it down to mid-match despair on my part!
I'll not be calling for Hodgson's head, but I genuintely think that tonight might be it for him. Good man, bad time, bad situation.
He is a talismanic figure for Liverpool in a way that no other comparable player at any other major team is.
The two trophies of note that Benitez won were down to his remarkable ability to seize a game by the neck and alter its course. He rescued them from ignominy against West Ham in the FA Cup and singlehandedly inspired the fight back against AC Milan for their Champions League win.
Benitez has a pig-headedness that resolutely refused to play Gerrard in his best position. He had insufficient influence or sway to prevent the departures of Mascherano or Alonso, his two other most able midfielders.
Many of the "achievements" listed above are simply nothing to do with Benitez' stewardship. His transformation of Inter-Milan from Treble winning European Champions to Serie A also-rans is there for all to see. Inter's capitulation to Spurs from being 4-0 up was evidence enough of his tactical pig-headedness and inability to inspire through man management.
I think he is no more capable a manager than say Martin O'Neill, but one who's had better breaks and considerably greater pay-offs.
Rafa played Gerrard in his best position more often than not: At the centre of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1.
To say many of the achievements are nothing to do with Rafas stewardshipship is quite simply preposterous. Are you trying to say Steven picked the team, organised the tactics, bought the players, took training, etc Or that Steven scored every goal in every game in every competition?
Rafa spent £80m net in his 6 years. He made £20m profit on Alonso. Roy Hodgson sold Mascherano.
I don't think any amount of influence or sway could dissuade a Spanish-speaking player who was offered a job by Barcelona or Real Madrid to leave an English club in evident decline.
There comes a point in players' careers - usually when they're hitting their peak at 26-28, like Mascherano and Xabi Alonso - when it's no longer only a matter of money, but more questions of quality of life (in the north of England, usually homesick wives and the utter pointlessness of having a swimming-pool at home) and job satisfaction (the frustration of not winning stuff) that determine when it's time to move on.
Carlos Tevez's oft-declared misery is another case in point, and that's not really any more Mancini's fault than the Hispanic defections from Anfield were Benitez's.
I suspect this level of analysis is what John W Henry will want. I think we really miss Kuyt when he is absent - not a great goal scorer but an asset to the team. The numbers show that Roy Evans was better than we thought. My personal view, (and what do I know?) is that when we blew the Premiership in 08/9 (and we blew it - two draws with Stoke, home draw with Everton and Arsenal - respect to MUFC but LFC should have won at a canter) the team knew it was their best chance and lost the headgame. Benitez could not get them to see it as progress rather than a defeat. That and losing the blessed Xavi Alonso sent us into a steep decline from the first game defeat by Spurs. I don't think Benetiz could change that.
I think he had luck, but that is what you need at this level. The only 2 seemingly able to make their own luck are Ferguson and Mourhino. I wonder if Sir Alex will retire along with Giggs, Scholes and Neville?
I'd say this about any Premiership team but it's most apt when it comes to Liverpool:
Do yourself yourself a massive favour, ditch 'em and go and support a local non league team.
Fact: The owners don't like you.
Fact: The owners don't need you.
Fact: The players don't deserve 95% of their wages.
The double-whammy of the Premiership and the 'Champions' League is one thing.....but the Premiership, the 'Champions' League AND Liverpool FC.
Yikes! That's the full monty.
The footballing equivalent of owning three Phil Collins' albums which again is apt 'cos Gerrard got into all that trouble over wanting to hear a Phil Collins' record in that nightclub!!!!
I repeat: 'a Phil Collins' record'.
But I am genuinely mystified why he is held in such high regard by a significant proportion of the red half of Merseyside.
I think Sheev above has largely nailed it.
My take: Benitez is a very gifted 'European' manager and given the squad he had at his disposal, consistently punched above his weight in Europe. Not so much Istanbul, which was largely down to a couple of inspired performances by players he inherited, but in later seasons - especially the 'runner up' year.
Ditto the cups, and the one-off 'Super Sunday' games, where he always seemed to get a performance over his notional peers. His ability to do it consistently in the league - against the Wigans and Boltons of this world - not so much.
As far as his transfer record is concerned, yes, there was a lot of dross, but also one or two steals - Reina and Torres being the two most obvious. But against that, you have to weigh the crass sums of money spent on Johnson and Aquilaini - again, to name but two.
The other thing I understand - knowing people close to the club and who live nearby on the Wirral - is that away from the pitch, he is one of the nicest, most generous and charitable human beings you could meet - as far removed from his 'work' persona as you could imagine.
But if I was a Liverpool fan, what I would find absolutely unforgiveable are two things:
a) The treatment of Xavi Alonso, who for me was the real lynchpin of the Benitez squad, notwithstanding Stevie G's ability to win the big ones singlehandedly. How Benitez thought replacing Alonso with Gareth Barry was a sensible move just beggars belief.
b) Going into last season with two strikers in his first team squad - Torres and....N'Gog. Given Torres' injury record, to have N'Gog as your only feasible alternative - whilst emptying the bank to buy Glen Johnson - is breathtaking.
I don't think he'll go back to Liverpool - I think it would be bad for him and for the club - but there will be thousands of Reds praying to Santa tonight for an extra Christmas present over the weekend.
But those of us who love him do so because he made us great again and gave us some of the best nights of our lives. We feel that he knew what H&G were doing to the club before anyone else and fought for us. He even tried to take on Ferguson in the face of appalling bias and disrespect from Sky and the tabloids. No other manager has the balls to answer back to SAF - most of them are part of his cosy little LMA clique. We loved Rafa for having a go.
He IS a lovely man - when he left he donated 96K to the HFSG - and he 'got' Liverpool fans like no one else could.
As I stated above, his net transfer spend was £80m in 6 years. Every manager makes mistakes but that's not a bad return. Especially taken into account alongside the CL money gained.
The Alonso episode was unfortunate but you have to remember Xabi had had a couple of poor seasons before Rafa tried to sell him - it made sense to a lot of us at the time. Xabi wanted to go back to Spain.
He didn't empty the bank for Glen. Portsmouth owed us money for Crouch which we would have lost. Glen is Englands right back - still a valuable player - I don't really see how that's 'breathtaking'.
is of course not the whole story. What about the huge salaries all those very average players were earning while on Liverpool's books? Their first team squad last year had 61 players in it! 61!
61 players with squad numbers is not the same as having a first team squad of 61 players. For some reason a lot of youth players get given squad numbers, but most of them are unlikely to regularly train with the first team, let alone be part of a matchday squad.
In terms of genuine first team squad members earning big money, LFC are probably no different to other similarly sized Prem clubs.
It's killing me, all this fair and balanced stuff! ;-)
Flagpole, what I thought was 'breathtaking' wasn't the purchase of Johnson per se, although the figures quoted were well over the top whether made up of cash or payment in lieu. I was referring to the decision to buy a right back when the squad was crying out for reinforcement up front.
If (and it's a big if) Benitez returns to Liverpool, then he needs to be on the same page as the club's owners in order to be a success. There's no doubting his credentials as a manager (the stats are there, once you seperate the wheat from the chaff) but he needs to be backed by the board (without throwing his toys out of the pram if his demands aren't met).
2009/10 was a slight hiccup under Benitez, that Hodgson's somehow managed to turn into a nasty cough. Benitez could frustrate and excite in equal measures (for every demoliton of Real Madrid at Anfield, there was a 0-0 draw against West Ham on the same ground) but I at least had faith in him as a manager.
Good managers are few and far between and Benitez will not be unemployed for long, so if Henry and co. decide they do want him back, then they'll need to act quickly and not dither about.
I must admit, I'm one of the few people who doesn't understand the demand for King Kenny. Or at least, the reasoning behind it. Dalglish, is quite rightly, a God on the Red-half of Liverpool, as a player, manager and as man, but I think putting him in charge of the club now wouldn't be the fairytale those are anticipating.
Benitez did well keeping Liverpool in the top 4 and should have won it the year they finished second. The Gerrard factor hugely influenced his cup successes after his initial tactical errors. His transfer record does not bear scrutiny but many managers fall into that trap Eric Djemba Djemba anyone? I'm a Brentford fan so I don't care but if I was a Liverpool fan I could not forgive Benitez for last season it appeared as though his issue with H&G lead him to deliberately destabilise your club. Liverpool should have finished in the top 4 and won the Europa league, a fitting send off for Rafa. The fact they did not is down to Benitez bizarre selction and substitution policy. Torres being taken off at Birmingham and Gerrards look of disbelief is his smoking gun. I think he needs a rest and a long spell away from football for his own sanity.
How much compo?
Has anyone every earned so much as a failure? One night excepting...
I would laugh my wotsit off if he goes to Blackburn...
Not as much as I would...
...if he went back to Liverpool.
Rafa for Anfield! Possibly the only football story that (most) Liverpool and Everton fans would be equally delighted by.
Benitez
He's back on the Wirral for Christmas, apparently. Should Hodgson be watching his back?
Yes he should
But not necessarily because of Rafa. Mid table, only chance of sliverware the UEFA (assuming we lose to MUFC in the cup, which is fairly likely), Roy needs to impress the management quickly.
Roy
I'd like to see Roy kept on at least until the end of the season. We're not going down, we're not going to win anything and Henry is unlikely to spend in January, so what would be the point in sacking him?
He has taken over a relatively poor squad of players and the big guns have been in and out of the side with injury. I'd not like to see Liverpool become the sort of club who turf out managers at the drop of a hat. I think he deserves a full season at the very least.
Milkman John
Remember Rafa's milkman John? Well, I work with his sister and she says Rafa's been home long enough to have given John his usual Harrod's hamper as a Christmas box...
Milkman John
TMFTL
I love Rafa's eccentricity. Not sure how I'd feel about him taking over the reins at Liverpool again. They say you should never go back.
Do you think
Benitez has any idea how much of a joke figure he has become?
At Liverpool all he did was whinge about not being given money to buy players, and yet when money was available he absolutely wasted it on the biggest pile of mediocrity anyone has ever seen.
There was an excellent post on the Guardian blog yesterday which listed the nonentities he bought after Torres and Benayoun, and they are:
Itandje, Nemeth, Voronin, Babel, Insua, Plessis, Skrtel, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri, Ngog, Keane, Flora, Riera, Palsson, Johnson, Aquilani, Rodriguez, Kyrgiakos.
Apparently one of the players he wanted to bring to treble-winning Inter was Dirk Kuyt!
So Inter have had a few injuries. Don't all clubs have injuries? He's paid to manage around these difficulties, not just buy his way out of any problems.
And then, having beaten the champions of South Korea and the Congo to become "World Club Champions", to put alongside his Italian Super Cup triumph (i.e. Charity Shield), he thinks it's a good time to lay down an ultimatum to his boss. Talk about misjudging the situation!
Honestly, if you were chairman of Inter would give him your cheque book in the January transfer window, or would you give him a well deserved kick out of the front door?
Benitez
He's a hopeless manager. Why, he's only won La Liga, the UEFA Cup and the Champions Leauge. What a clown eh?
I think
the last of those wins was in season 2004/5. It's 2010/11.
FA Cup
He went on to win the FA Cup in 2006, reached the Champions League final in 2007 and finished 2nd in the Prem in 2009. Harry Redknapp is currently getting fawned over for much less.
But Sam
Leaving aside your comments about continuity above, in the ideal world...
Would you have him back?
The "relatively poor squad of players" you mention above that Roy inherited - whose fault might that be?
Partly
Benitez. Partly the previous owners. Part of me would have him back, but part of me thinks that era is best left as it is. It'd be a bit 'Keegan' to get him back.
I don't see
how the previous owners are even partly to blame. Look at that list of donkeys I posted above. Do you think Hicks or Gillett sidled up to Benitez one day in training and said "I hear that boy Ngog is a bit of a player so I've bought him for you"?
Bottom line, he bought a load of dross and paid a lot of money for it too. The buck for that squad stops with Benitez but you'll never convince him of that. As Mark Lawrensen said last night on Radio 5, nothing was ever Benitez's fault.
"Please explain..."
Though Rafa chose most of his buys, the club refused to sanction a number of transfers, including that of Gareth Barry. So although Rafa must bear the brunt of the blame, I reckon the squad would've been improved slightly had the club not restricted him.
Now, let's look at that list:
Itandje (Reserve 'keeper. Hardly any first team action as our current 'keeper, Benitez-buy Reina, is one of the best in the world)
Nemeth (Youth team striker. Scored bags of goals at youth level but looks like he'll fail to make the grade.)
Voronin (Granted, rubbish)
Babel (Looked tremendous as a youngster. Crap now, granted)
Insua (Not a bad player. Won Olympic gold win Argentina. Played regularly in the 2008/09 runner-up year. Lacked pace.)
Plessis (Rubbish, but like many in this list, a youth player rather than a fully-fledged signing)
Skrtel (Decent centre-half, Captained the team the other night)
Degen (Half-decent players but suffered a catastrophic string of injuries and hardly played)
Dossena (Rubbish, aye)
Cavalieri (Another reserve goalie, looked alright when called upon)
Ngog (Youth player again. Leading goalscorer this season)
Keane (Bizarre buy, alledgedly brough in over Rafa's head)
Flora (Never heard of him!)
Riera (Looked alright. Decent squad player.)
Palsson (Youth player, know little about him)
Johnson (A defender who can't defend)
Aquilani (Very good player, but injury prone. Too much of a gamble, bad buy)
Rodriguez (Great player).
Kyrgiakos (Signed as cover when Agger got injured and Hyypia had left. Ended up a regular in the team, does alright, gets goals)
plays better
soccerball tho.
just wonderIng
What your agenda exactly is, Johan. Is it informed by a genuine love of football or a desire to stick the boot in on Rafa? As a Red, I'd just say 'Istanbul,' and disregard anything else you say. Play on.
I don't have an agenda,
just an opinion.
I totally agree with Johan
Apart from his useless signings, demands for more money, the worst thing about this despicable Fat Spanish Waiter is his total lack of class, humilility and good grace in defeat. At least when the fast-declining former champions of Europe get beaten these days, Woy has the good grace to face the cameras and admit that that they were beaten by a team who played better than them on the day. Benitez would refuse to shake the oposition manager's hand, blame everyone but himself or his players, never quite managing to look the interviewer in the eye. A horrible, arrogant man and part of me would love him to go back to Liverpool, or even better, go to Blackburn and get sacked after a few months by their ruthless owners.
Okay, I admit it, I'm an Evertonian. But no-one has done more than Benitez in damaging the formerly good natured relations between Red & Blue on Merseyside than this clown.
Thanks
For reinforcing the bitter blue stereotype Baz. This forum is an unusually friendly place, but when talk turns to football it becomes as much a bearpit as anywhere else on t'net.
If you think this is bad tempered,
you should try Scottish football boards when someone tries to suggest that the Old Firm are not, in fact, all that important...
Bad Losers
To be fair, "blame everyone but himself or his players" applies to most managers, especially the good ones. And I'd include David "referee rage" Moyes in that. I've got a lot of time for Roy Hodgeson, but something tells me an arrogant coach might be a better option than one who's a good loser - at any club.
Some Facts
Feel like I should address the balance a bit. Apologies, I've copied this from somewhere else but please read before you slag Rafa's Liverpool record off...
Benitez FACTS
August 2004 – January 2010
2004-05
In his 1st home game in charge (Man City) Liverpool came from behind at half-time to win a game for the first time in more than 5 years.
At Fulham (October 2004) the Reds came from behind at half-time to win an away game for the 1st time in 13 years.
Liverpool became the 1st British club to ‘keep’ the European Cup following a 5th Final success.
Steven Gerrard became the 2nd youngest player to captain a European Cup winning team.
2005-06
Became only the 3rd team, and the 1st British side, to win the European Super Cup 3 times.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player in history to score in 5 successive European matches.
Kept clean sheets in each of their opening 4 league games for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Sami Hyypia played in a 56th consecutive European game – breaking the club record for an outfield player (he extended that record to 57).
Liverpool set a new club record of 11 consecutive clean sheets (Oct-Dec 2005).
Went 762 minutes without conceding a league goal (a post-war club record).
Won 10 league games in a row for the 1st time in 15 years.
At Luton Liverpool scored 5 goals in an away F.A. Cup tie for the 1st time in 59 years.
Liverpool beat Manchester United for the 1st time in the F.A. Cup for 85 years.
Recorded their biggest ever away win in the F.A. Cup (7-0 at Birmingham) and the biggest by any team away from home in the Quarter-Finals for 106 years.
Conceded only 8 league goals at home – their 3rd best total ever.
Set a club record of 12 successive wins in all competitions (it was extended to 14 at the start of the following season).
By lifting the F.A. Cup became the 1st manager in the club’s history to win a trophy in each of his first 2 seasons in charge.
Set a club record of 21 goals scored by substitutes in a season – previous record was 12.
Achieved the 6th-highest accumulation of available league points in the club’s history, and at the time, the 2nd-highest ever number of wins (as a % of games played)
2006-07
Recorded his 50th league win in just 93 games – a record bettered by only 2 Liverpool managers of the previous 57 years, Dalglish and Shankly.
Went unbeaten in 30 successive home league games for only the 4th time in their history.
Scored 4 goals in the 1st half of an away league game (at Wigan) for the 1st time in 15 years.
Pepe Reina kept more clean sheets in his first 50 league games (28) than any other goalkeeper in the club’s history.
Jamie Carragher played in a club record 58th game in the European Cup.
Jamie Carragher made a club record 90th appearance in all European competition.
Conceded only 7 league goals at home – best total for 28 years.
Only second English side to win in Nou Camp (previous one was Liverpool in 1976).
Reached second Champions League final in three seasons. (If ‘lucky’ to win in 2005, the Reds were ‘unlucky’ to lose in 2007.)
2007-08
Beat Besiktas 8-0 to record the biggest ever Champions League victory.
Scored 4 goals in a game on 8 occasions before Christmas for only the 3rd time in club’s history.
Steven Gerrard scored his 23rd European goal – to break the club record.
Pepe Reina kept his 50th league clean sheet in his 92nd appearance – breaking club record of 95 held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player ever to score in 5 successive European games in the same season.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player in 62 years to a hat-trick in successive home league games.
Jamie Carragher became the 1st Liverpool player to play 100 European games for the club.
Fernando Torres became the 1st player in 12 years to score 20 league goals for the club.
Pepe Reina kept 54 clean sheets in his first 100 league games to break the club record held by Ray Clemence.
Steven Gerrard became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 4 successive home European games.
Fernando Torres became the 1st Liverpool player to score in 7 successive top-flight home league games.
Rafa Benitez won 81 of his first 150 league games in charge. Only Kenny Dalglish (87) won more as Liverpool manager.
Ryan Babel equalled the club record of most goals in a season scored by a substitute (7).
Liverpool had 6 players who scored 10 goals or more in a season. Only the 3rd time this had happened in the club’s history.
Fernando Torres equalled the club record by scoring in an 8th successive home league game (all divisions).
Fernando Torres scored 24 league goals – most by any Liverpool player in a debut season for 61 years.
Fernando Torres broke Ruud Van Nistelrooy’s record of most goals in a debut Premier league season by an overseas player.
Pepe Reina won the Golden Glove for the 3rd successive season.
Liverpool scored 119 goals in the season – more than any team in England.
2008-09
In 2008 recorded their highest points tally in a calendar year (81) for 18 years.
Liverpool won 9 successive home league games for the 1st time since November 1990.
Fernando Torres became the club’s 2nd highest ever scorer in his first 50 games (34 goals).
Ryan Babel became the club’s 2nd highest ever goalscoring substitute (with 8 goals).
Liverpool came from behind to defeat Manchester United in the league for the 1st time in 42 years.
End Chelsea’s 84-game unbeaten home record.
Became only the 2nd English team to win in the Bernabeu.
At Anfield inflicted upon Real Madrid their biggest ever Champions League defeat.
Steven Gerrard became only the 2nd Liverpool player to play 100 times for the club in Europe.
Recorded their biggest win at Old Trafford for 72 years. It was also the 1st time 4 Liverpool players had scored at United in the same game.
Led the table for the 1st time ever in the Premiership with 2 games to play.
Broke Bill Shankly’s record of 65 European matches as Liverpool manager.
Broke Bob Paisley’s record of 40 European wins as Liverpool manager.
Recorded his 100th league win as manager in his 181st game. It was the 3rd quickest ever by a Liverpool manager and 50 games faster than Alex Ferguson.
Equalled club record set in 1904-05 by winning 13 away league games.
Amassed their highest points total ever in the Premier League (86) beating the 82 set in 2005-06. Their highest in the league since 1987-88.
Scored at least 3 goals in 6 successive games in all competitions for the 1st time in the club’s history.
Finished the campaign with a goal difference of + 50 – their best for 21 years when they amassed + 63 in 1987-88.
Lost just twice in the league – equalling the fewest they had lost in a league campaign for 105 years.
Fernando Torres scored 33 goals in his first 50 league games for the club – the best by any Liverpool player for 52 years.
Pepe Reina kept his 100th clean sheet in the fastest time in Liverpool history (197 games).
Won 75% of all available league points – 2nd highest in the club’s history.
The highest number of points by any team which failed to win the league (38 game seasons)
2009-10
Went unbeaten in 31 home league games – their 3rd longest ever run and best for 32 years.
Against Manchester United recorded his 114th league win in his 200th game. The 2nd best tally by any Liverpool manager in first 200 league games (Kenny Dalglish 120 wins).
Liverpool won a 3rd successive league game at Everton for only 3rd time in club’s history.
Yossi Benayoun scored a hat-trick against Burnley to become only the 5th player in the club’s history to score a hat-trick in 3 different competitions.
Pepe Reina set a new club record of most clean sheets (79) in first 150 league games.
Liverpool scored 22 goals in opening 7 league games – best tally for 114 years and 2nd best ever.
Broke club record by scoring in an 18th successive Premier League game at Anfield.
Fernando Torres broke the club record by scoring his 50th league goal for Liverpool in just his 72nd match.
In addition, here are some statistics relating to the eight Liverpool managers over the past 50 years.
Win %
Rafa Benítez
League – Played 212, won 56.13% (currently 2nd-highest % for any post-war Liverpool manager)
Europe – Played 77, won 55.84% (currently 3rd-highest % for any Liverpool manager)
Gerard Houllier
League – Played 216, won 50.00%
Europe – Played 52 , won 50.00%
Roy Evans
League – Played 172, won 48.26%
Europe – Played 16 8, won 50.00%
Graeme Sounes
League – Played 115, won 40.87%
Europe – Played 12 6, won 50.00%
Kenny Dalglish
League – Played 224, won 60.71%
Joe Fagan
League – Played 84, won 52.38%
Europe – Played 19 , won 68.42%
Bob Paisley
League – Played 378, won 56.08%
Europe – Played 61 , won 63.93%
Bill Shankly
League – Played 609, won 52.38%
Europe – Played 65 , won 52.31%
Progress From Predecessor?
Although it never appeared in the book, for Dynasty I compared the league records of all eight managers since 1959, with the first season’s points removed from their average tally. This first season total was removed because some managers inherited successful sides, and others inherited struggling sides; as such, I wanted a less-skewed figure for their performance.
Once Liverpool were struggling from 1991 onwards, the worst points tally posted by each of Evans (60), Houllier (54) and Benítez (58) was in their first season. By contrast, Joe Fagan, by inheriting a world-class team, had his best total in his inaugural season. The same applies to Graeme Souness (I’ve also excluded incomplete seasons if the manager left before the end).
So, when removing the first season – giving each man a season’s grace, if you will – the following figures are their average league points tallies; where a predecessor is listed in brackets it means they improved on the man before them. Currently Benítez has the greatest improvement by any Liverpool manager, but that will drop slightly if Liverpool do not reach 78 points in this campaign.
1 Paisley av. 83 (predecessor av. 77)
2 Dalglish av. 81 (predecessor av. 77)
3 Benítez av. 78 (predecessor av. 68)
4 Shankly av. 77
5 Fagan av. 77
5 Evans av. 70 (predecessor av. 61)
7 Houllier av. 68
8 Souness av. 61
So anyone who says that the club has gone backwards since the days of Houllier (that includes you, Danny Murphy) is wrong; the facts suggest a big improvement
Hang on a sec
I'm not a Benitez fan - or basher - but I do like to keep a sense of perspective.
Let's be honest, you can throw out most of the European statistics. There are many many more European games each season, and against a generally lower class of opposition than Paisley, or Shankly, would have had to have faced.
So he won 55% of his European games. Now take out the games played against the European equivalent of the Under 11 blind school, and what's his true record?
More games? Yes
Lower class of opposition? No.
To reach the 1977 European Cup Final Liverpool beat Crusaders, Trabzonspor, St Etienne and Zurich.
To reach the 2007 UEFA Champtions League Final Liverpool beat Maccabi Haifi, Bordeaux, Galatasary, PSV Eindhoven, Barcelona and Chelsea.
Well
Beating Besiktas 8-0. Besiktas who have got out of the Qualifying Group on one occasion since the new format Champions League started.
They had to beat Moenchengladbach in 1977, the reigning German champions.
I'm not sure that Haifa have gotten out of the Qualifying Group.
The point I was trying - albeit unsuccessfully - is that the statistics are skewed by the presence of weaker teams, and more games being played. You put those factors together and the appearance of success becomes a lot easier.
Ah well
As I type Liverpool are getting beat at home by Wolves and are nestling in the bottom half of the table. On Rafa's watch we reached two Champions League finals in three years, winning one. You put those factors together and the concept of Rafa being a good boss becomes a lot easier.
Bawhuh?
Sorry mate, I find that reasoning faulty.
I have to respect anyone who stands as articulately as you do for someone they believe in.
but your reasoning is suspect, I think.
Winning the Champions League was an achievement, no denying that. But the fact that they are struggling just now doesn't affect how one reviews Rafa's achievements. You could persuasively argue that the substandard players Hodgson is struggling with is down to Benitez's forays into the transfer market.
My memory is dodgy on this, but didn't Hodgson struggle season one at Fulham before turning it around there?
Fair point
I think you're right to say that Roy is working under much different conditions now than Rafa experienced in his good years at the club. Put it down to mid-match despair on my part!
I'll not be calling for Hodgson's head, but I genuintely think that tonight might be it for him. Good man, bad time, bad situation.
On this point at least we
On this point at least we agree!
Two words
Steven Gerrard.
He is a talismanic figure for Liverpool in a way that no other comparable player at any other major team is.
The two trophies of note that Benitez won were down to his remarkable ability to seize a game by the neck and alter its course. He rescued them from ignominy against West Ham in the FA Cup and singlehandedly inspired the fight back against AC Milan for their Champions League win.
Benitez has a pig-headedness that resolutely refused to play Gerrard in his best position. He had insufficient influence or sway to prevent the departures of Mascherano or Alonso, his two other most able midfielders.
Many of the "achievements" listed above are simply nothing to do with Benitez' stewardship. His transformation of Inter-Milan from Treble winning European Champions to Serie A also-rans is there for all to see. Inter's capitulation to Spurs from being 4-0 up was evidence enough of his tactical pig-headedness and inability to inspire through man management.
I think he is no more capable a manager than say Martin O'Neill, but one who's had better breaks and considerably greater pay-offs.
Completely disagree
Rafa played Gerrard in his best position more often than not: At the centre of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1.
To say many of the achievements are nothing to do with Rafas stewardshipship is quite simply preposterous. Are you trying to say Steven picked the team, organised the tactics, bought the players, took training, etc Or that Steven scored every goal in every game in every competition?
Rafa spent £80m net in his 6 years. He made £20m profit on Alonso. Roy Hodgson sold Mascherano.
Let's not blame him for the inevitable
I don't think any amount of influence or sway could dissuade a Spanish-speaking player who was offered a job by Barcelona or Real Madrid to leave an English club in evident decline.
There comes a point in players' careers - usually when they're hitting their peak at 26-28, like Mascherano and Xabi Alonso - when it's no longer only a matter of money, but more questions of quality of life (in the north of England, usually homesick wives and the utter pointlessness of having a swimming-pool at home) and job satisfaction (the frustration of not winning stuff) that determine when it's time to move on.
Carlos Tevez's oft-declared misery is another case in point, and that's not really any more Mancini's fault than the Hispanic defections from Anfield were Benitez's.
Just the facts
I suspect this level of analysis is what John W Henry will want. I think we really miss Kuyt when he is absent - not a great goal scorer but an asset to the team. The numbers show that Roy Evans was better than we thought. My personal view, (and what do I know?) is that when we blew the Premiership in 08/9 (and we blew it - two draws with Stoke, home draw with Everton and Arsenal - respect to MUFC but LFC should have won at a canter) the team knew it was their best chance and lost the headgame. Benitez could not get them to see it as progress rather than a defeat. That and losing the blessed Xavi Alonso sent us into a steep decline from the first game defeat by Spurs. I don't think Benetiz could change that.
I think he had luck, but that is what you need at this level. The only 2 seemingly able to make their own luck are Ferguson and Mourhino. I wonder if Sir Alex will retire along with Giggs, Scholes and Neville?
Payback for all those 'dubious' pens in the dire 1980s
I'd say this about any Premiership team but it's most apt when it comes to Liverpool:
Do yourself yourself a massive favour, ditch 'em and go and support a local non league team.
Fact: The owners don't like you.
Fact: The owners don't need you.
Fact: The players don't deserve 95% of their wages.
The double-whammy of the Premiership and the 'Champions' League is one thing.....but the Premiership, the 'Champions' League AND Liverpool FC.
Yikes! That's the full monty.
The footballing equivalent of owning three Phil Collins' albums which again is apt 'cos Gerrard got into all that trouble over wanting to hear a Phil Collins' record in that nightclub!!!!
I repeat: 'a Phil Collins' record'.
Trying to avoid stereotypical blue bitterness here
But I am genuinely mystified why he is held in such high regard by a significant proportion of the red half of Merseyside.
I think Sheev above has largely nailed it.
My take: Benitez is a very gifted 'European' manager and given the squad he had at his disposal, consistently punched above his weight in Europe. Not so much Istanbul, which was largely down to a couple of inspired performances by players he inherited, but in later seasons - especially the 'runner up' year.
Ditto the cups, and the one-off 'Super Sunday' games, where he always seemed to get a performance over his notional peers. His ability to do it consistently in the league - against the Wigans and Boltons of this world - not so much.
As far as his transfer record is concerned, yes, there was a lot of dross, but also one or two steals - Reina and Torres being the two most obvious. But against that, you have to weigh the crass sums of money spent on Johnson and Aquilaini - again, to name but two.
The other thing I understand - knowing people close to the club and who live nearby on the Wirral - is that away from the pitch, he is one of the nicest, most generous and charitable human beings you could meet - as far removed from his 'work' persona as you could imagine.
But if I was a Liverpool fan, what I would find absolutely unforgiveable are two things:
a) The treatment of Xavi Alonso, who for me was the real lynchpin of the Benitez squad, notwithstanding Stevie G's ability to win the big ones singlehandedly. How Benitez thought replacing Alonso with Gareth Barry was a sensible move just beggars belief.
b) Going into last season with two strikers in his first team squad - Torres and....N'Gog. Given Torres' injury record, to have N'Gog as your only feasible alternative - whilst emptying the bank to buy Glen Johnson - is breathtaking.
I don't think he'll go back to Liverpool - I think it would be bad for him and for the club - but there will be thousands of Reds praying to Santa tonight for an extra Christmas present over the weekend.
A lot of Reds...
..can't stand Rafa, Paul, and wanted him out.
But those of us who love him do so because he made us great again and gave us some of the best nights of our lives. We feel that he knew what H&G were doing to the club before anyone else and fought for us. He even tried to take on Ferguson in the face of appalling bias and disrespect from Sky and the tabloids. No other manager has the balls to answer back to SAF - most of them are part of his cosy little LMA clique. We loved Rafa for having a go.
He IS a lovely man - when he left he donated 96K to the HFSG - and he 'got' Liverpool fans like no one else could.
As I stated above, his net transfer spend was £80m in 6 years. Every manager makes mistakes but that's not a bad return. Especially taken into account alongside the CL money gained.
The Alonso episode was unfortunate but you have to remember Xabi had had a couple of poor seasons before Rafa tried to sell him - it made sense to a lot of us at the time. Xabi wanted to go back to Spain.
He didn't empty the bank for Glen. Portsmouth owed us money for Crouch which we would have lost. Glen is Englands right back - still a valuable player - I don't really see how that's 'breathtaking'.
I personally would have Rafa back tomorrow.
Anyway, Merry Christmas Lid. Have a good one.
The net spend
is of course not the whole story. What about the huge salaries all those very average players were earning while on Liverpool's books? Their first team squad last year had 61 players in it! 61!
61?
61 players with squad numbers is not the same as having a first team squad of 61 players. For some reason a lot of youth players get given squad numbers, but most of them are unlikely to regularly train with the first team, let alone be part of a matchday squad.
In terms of genuine first team squad members earning big money, LFC are probably no different to other similarly sized Prem clubs.
Make that 62
More than anyone else. Neighbours Everton get by on 33.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1165897/Does-size-matt...
Erm...
62 professionals on the books does not equal a first team squad of 62.
Any of those 62
could have been picked for the first team.
If it makes you happier let's say he had 62 full time professionals on the books. It's an astonishing number.
No
You're alright.
Let's just drop it.
Fair and well-written post
And as a Liverpool fan, I agree with the two main mistakes you highlight.
Thanks Chaps
It's killing me, all this fair and balanced stuff! ;-)
Flagpole, what I thought was 'breathtaking' wasn't the purchase of Johnson per se, although the figures quoted were well over the top whether made up of cash or payment in lieu. I was referring to the decision to buy a right back when the squad was crying out for reinforcement up front.
Fair comment,,,
We did (and still do) need a striker.
Wow, an inter-club footy thread that doesn't descend into people being offered out!
:-D
Anyway, weather permitting, I'm off to Blackpool on Sunday to see the next stage in Roys master plan :-/
A raised pint of Cains Mild to you all!
X
Good managers are few and far between
If (and it's a big if) Benitez returns to Liverpool, then he needs to be on the same page as the club's owners in order to be a success. There's no doubting his credentials as a manager (the stats are there, once you seperate the wheat from the chaff) but he needs to be backed by the board (without throwing his toys out of the pram if his demands aren't met).
2009/10 was a slight hiccup under Benitez, that Hodgson's somehow managed to turn into a nasty cough. Benitez could frustrate and excite in equal measures (for every demoliton of Real Madrid at Anfield, there was a 0-0 draw against West Ham on the same ground) but I at least had faith in him as a manager.
Good managers are few and far between and Benitez will not be unemployed for long, so if Henry and co. decide they do want him back, then they'll need to act quickly and not dither about.
I must admit, I'm one of the few people who doesn't understand the demand for King Kenny. Or at least, the reasoning behind it. Dalglish, is quite rightly, a God on the Red-half of Liverpool, as a player, manager and as man, but I think putting him in charge of the club now wouldn't be the fairytale those are anticipating.
All of the above has merit
Benitez did well keeping Liverpool in the top 4 and should have won it the year they finished second. The Gerrard factor hugely influenced his cup successes after his initial tactical errors. His transfer record does not bear scrutiny but many managers fall into that trap Eric Djemba Djemba anyone? I'm a Brentford fan so I don't care but if I was a Liverpool fan I could not forgive Benitez for last season it appeared as though his issue with H&G lead him to deliberately destabilise your club. Liverpool should have finished in the top 4 and won the Europa league, a fitting send off for Rafa. The fact they did not is down to Benitez bizarre selction and substitution policy. Torres being taken off at Birmingham and Gerrards look of disbelief is his smoking gun. I think he needs a rest and a long spell away from football for his own sanity.
must be due
a march from a pub you were drinking in to a game you were going to.
Only Wolves I know but they were famous once as well.
Care to
elaborate, Gaz?
as in
a bizarre sense of entitlement if things aren't going right for the bindippers, so a march is organised. 'In rafa we trust' indeed
"bindippers"
Charming. Thanks for referring to my kids in such lovely terms.