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Bass player required - must have "robust" political stance

Martin_Horsfield's picture

This Morrissey/NME controversy means we now have the nucleus of a corking supergroup. Garry Bushell could drum up some press, the Mail On Sunday could give away the album, Ron Mael could advise on their "look"....

On vocals, it's Stephen Patrick "the gates are flooded" Morrissey.

On drums, it's Phil "if Labour get in, I'm leaving the country" Collins.

On guitar, it's Eric "we should send them all back... Keep Britain white" Clapton.

On piano, it's Elvis "Ray Charles is a blind, ignorant n-----. Oh, did I say that? I was terribly drunk at the time" Costello.

But who could be the bassist? Are they all frighteningly PC? Or just so boring that no-one asks their opinion on anything?

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Lemmy

Never had Lemmy down as a Guardian reader.

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Richard Lowe | 4 December 2007 - 6:59pm

Kerching. He's in!

Kerching. He's in!

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Martin_Horsfield | 4 December 2007 - 7:03pm

Morrisey isn't racist

It's a crock of shit whipped up by a clapped-out magazine to drum up much-needed publicity.
Read this. It's more convincing than the feeble NME article.

This http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/12/morrissey_responds.html

Having said that, the notion that only card-carrying lefties can make good music is getting as tired and tedious as the NME

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Richard Lowe | 4 December 2007 - 7:05pm

The UKIP house Band

What about Bill Wyman? Not a man known as a "card carrying leftie"...

And I think maybe the gauntlet should be thrown down to Richard and he should convince us about the great right wing artists and bands. ..

And there is probably a long and pseudo intellectual discourse about the nature of the "outsider" in rock music, its usual anti-authoriatarian and anti-establishment stance and the role of blues music as the foundation of almost all modern popular music, born out of slavery etc etc which makes it a natural ally to anti-racists, liberals and lefties everywhere...But I can't be bothered tonight.

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marklabarre | 4 December 2007 - 7:33pm

a natural ally to anti-racists, liberals and lefties everywhere

This is the thing I don't get. Why the presumption that only "lefties" oppose racism? (Or that lefties are "liberal" for that matter, given that Marxist-Leninist socialism is essentially a highly authoritarian and prescriptive political creed). The only "racist" in terms of (former, of course, youthful error of judgement and all that ) membership of a racist political party I can think of in showbiz circles is Ricky Tomlinson, who combined it with miltant trade-unionism. (And the two are not as contradictory as our Guardian-and-natural-yoghurt-for-breakfast chums would like to believe.) The only political constituencies where the NF and the BNP have ever made any headway are ones that were otherwise staunchly Labour. I know the left always likes to assume the moral high ground but I don't think they can claim a monoply on anti-racism.

As for rock music being generally a leftie business. Well it's certainly true that rocks stars have tended to be counter-culture figures but this is more about bugging the straights than any serious political thought. Rock stars also like to make a song and dance about "leftie" issues like the environment, globalisation etc. etc. But let's look at the business they operate in: the production and consumption of its products involves full use of the bounteous fruits of the petro-chemical industry (and I don't suppose any of the Third World sweatshops involved in the manufacturing of CDs, mp3 players. computers and hi-fis have a Fair Trade licence.)
Its practitioners spend most of their time jetting round the world, not always for the purposes of tax-avoidance. As far as eco-friendy businesses go it‘s about as "green" as Ewing Oil when JR was up to his dastardly worst. The major record companies are as "global" as McDonalds. And when it comes to the distribution of income between those at the top and those at the bottom it makes the investment bankling industry look like a hippy commune. A good many of its practitioners have also, historically, been notorious for a lifestyle of self-centred hedonistic decadence. The industry exists solely to create and then service a demand for a completely inessential (apart from Pet Sounds obviously) product and has no qualms about overlooking any enviromental damage it may leave trailing in its wake whilst taking full advantage of any tax-avoidancve loopholes it can get away with. (Yes even St.Bono)
The rock industry is capitalism red in tooth and claw. In fact, when you chuck in the po-faced sanctmoniousness when it comes to how other people should behave it‘s hard to think of a business which embodies more "the unacceptable face of capitalism".
And "Thom" Yorke‘s a twat.

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Richard Lowe | 5 December 2007 - 6:30pm

Hear hear.

You can't see me, but I'm doffing my cap in your general direction Richard.

Despite being one of the liberal left myself, (won't admit to eating yoghurt for breakfast though), if no-one can see how ridiculously capitalist the music business is, they need some of those 3-D glasses Smash Hits used to give away.

Or was that Fiesta?

The thing is, it's not the business we're interested in. Is it?

And god yes, Thom Yorke is a twat.

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Oeufman | 6 December 2007 - 9:19pm

On vocals...

I don't believe Morrissey is racist for a second.

I guess that means he's out of the band.

How about replacing him with Lauren Hill?

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kidpresentable | 5 December 2007 - 3:04am

Roger Waters

Didn't Waters get in a teensy bit of trouble for suggesting that the September 11th terrorists weren't cowards?

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Lucas Hare | 5 December 2007 - 9:45am

Naturally, you could replace

Naturally, you could replace Moz with Bryan "Some of the architecture was fantastic" Ferry.

But, personally, I feel Moz's "gates are flooded" remark flew dangerously close to the language used by the far right. I don't think NME is doing it for publicity (a free Moz seven-inch was the original intention and would have sold lots more copies, as well as keeping him on-sde). They, quite rightly, instead felt the need to challenge his fairly silly comments.

Moz, on the other hand, hasn't had so many column inches in years, with scores of his old fans coming out to defend their hero on his messageboards. Where they'll doubtless also read that he has an imminent 'Best Of' out...

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Martin_Horsfield | 5 December 2007 - 10:34am

Is Bryan Ferry a racist?

Is a comment like his about Nazi Germany architecture actually racist, or even a slightly dodgy thing to say? There were presumably many Germans in the 30s and 40s who did many good things but who made a life-death decision to go along with Nazi works even if they didn't agree with the ethics. The architects, builders, plumbers, painters who produced the buildings that Ferry admired - are they all complicit/guilty? Would you extend that to musicians, composers, artists of the time?

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kb | 6 December 2007 - 11:29am

No, Bryan Ferry is not a racist.

Nor anything remotely like one. He just pointed out the recognised historical fact that the Nazis set a lot of store by the way things looked and ran into the usual media hoohah which accompanies any comment about those years nowadays.

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David Hepworth | 6 December 2007 - 12:26pm

That's him out of the band,

That's him out of the band, then. No room for wishy-washy liberals.

I would say replace him with Ted Nugent but we'd have to put an entire Wikipedia entry in quote marks between Ted and Nugent.

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Martin_Horsfield | 6 December 2007 - 1:07pm

Me neither

No, I don't think Ferry's comment was racist either.

Here's another example: I've read that apparently, Hitler was a talented painter. I haven't seen any of his paintings so can't comment on this, but if you were to claim that he was, that wouldn't mean you thought anything else was remotely positive about him. Anything else which has been attributed to his comment is simply an inference made by the media.

And I'm not even into Ferry.

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kidpresentable | 7 December 2007 - 5:43pm

An honourable mention

must go to the world of country and western. You can imagine the atmosphere if a certain H. Clinton presented a gong at the C&W Awards. Some of the artists there regard Dubya as a dangerous leftie!!

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Gordon Kerr | 6 December 2007 - 12:01am

On backing vocals...

Glasgow's own Lulu, a firm follower, if I'm not mistaken, of Mrs Thatcher in the eighties. And of course the interval caberat would be conducted by, you own, your very own, Jim Davidson, a man you can tell mourns the passing of Red Wedge!!

Oh, and yes, I agree, Thom York is a twat

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Gordon Kerr | 8 December 2007 - 12:14pm

In voting the way that she did...

...didn't Lulu only vote along with the majority of the British public? As is her constitutional right.

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David Hepworth | 8 December 2007 - 12:36pm

indeed

Good point, I don't believe Lulu's vote alone is the sole passage to power.

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kidpresentable | 10 December 2007 - 12:45am

And Paul

Weller exercised his democratic right, by withdrawing the offer of a new song for said Tory supporter....The Conservatives never managed a Blue Rinse alternative to Red Wedge, did they? Mind you, a la the Devil has all the good tunes - the left appears to have the best songwriters.....frog prince Collins ruined a decent John Maryn album, Bill Wyman solo career is utterly abject and as for Clapton? One half-decent - if derivative - song followed by the most horrendous maudlin gubbins ever TM. And he never apologised, for the music or the racism.

But Ferry coughed for his comments, thus making it seem as if he knew he did something unforgiveable - even if our worthy correspondents disagree.

Someone wiser than me once annotated the feeling of disappointment you get when a favoured pop star reveals their grubby right-wing convictions. You don;t stop playing the records, but yr enjoyment is ever-so-slightly diminished. (Wotcha Mick.) Still, at least the rumours re Preston Ordinary Boy trying to be a Tory councillor mean I can bin that CD with impunity!

ps Is Richard really Nick Cohen? Two uses of 'moral high ground' in two posts

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Paul Holmes | 9 December 2007 - 4:55am

St Bono

Bono is obviously a hypocritical sanctimonious prat - does that make the Joshua Tree a worse album? I mean rally - going to have a chat with the Pope (who with his backward ideas on contraception has added to Africas AIDS problem many times over), and then moving his business so he doesn't have to pay tax and then having the brass neck to lecture us on eradicating poverty. Not so sure about whether Thom Yorke is a "twat" though - he just needs to to watch some Carry On movies. And for what its worth I don't think Morrissey, Clapton or Ferry are racists, just ignorant and out of touch.

Richard raises many many issues (not least the old and erroneous Marxism = fascism equation) but while its a truism that record companies are rapacious capitalist entities, a great deal of popular music has been the voice of anti-establishment feelings whether its Elvis swivelling his hips or Jagger singing about Street Fighting Man....

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marklabarre | 9 December 2007 - 10:52am

Morrisey

Mmmm some very interesting vociferous comments concerning Moz. He may or may not be racist BUT.... two observations: what is "Englishness" about? A quick analysis of ANY facet of English culture reveals a synthesis of MANY different cultures and races. When people start one of these "things aren't like they used to be" rants they usually invoke some halcyon time in the late 1950s/early 60s. Were things SO wonderful then?
Also, I notice that the man has not lived in the UK for several years. I wonder if the Italians, Irish, Americans feel the same way about him. Sorry Stephen, as far as I am concerned you say nothing to me about my life.

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BigJimBob | 10 December 2007 - 1:54pm

We can't have it both ways

It's about time we reconciled ourselves to the fact that Englishness doesn't really exist any more. We can't have it both ways: we can't promote a multi-cultural society and then moan about our lack of national identity. I put this to someone recently and they said "Can't our national identity reflect that we are a cosmopolitan society?" Well, no. Not really. The two are contradictory. We simply have to admit that 'Englishness' is a concept that predates us, and move on. I don't think it's any great loss: hopefully our society is more open minded, and I personally find patriotism to be a bit of a shaky concept anyway. But it's time people stopped tangling themselves in knots trying to have the best of both worlds.

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Lucas Hare | 10 December 2007 - 9:02pm

Leave Englishness aside for a moment

Does Frenchness still exist?
And Italianness?
And Polishness?
I think they do.

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David Hepworth | 10 December 2007 - 9:19pm

I suspect

they all do - but in different (and, obviously, differing) ways to what they were. Culture is protean and not definitely immutable: so I suspect it ain't gonna be the same entity it was 40. 30, or even ten years ago. How would you quantify Frenchness post 68? Or the Algerian riots. Or that Air album? Did Englishness change pace punk rock? Or during Thatcher's (spit) Napoleonic reign? I'd say Englishness now is vastly different to what it was in the 50s _ which I'd aver is what has confused dear old Mozza. Are binge-drinking, belligerence and bellowing the new English traits? All I know is the French dub us Les F*ck Offs rather than Ros Bif these days....

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Paul Holmes | 10 December 2007 - 11:57pm

Agreed

I think they do too.

As does 'Englishness'. Culture is what you want it to be and where you find it.

Ask a Londoner and a resident of a small sleepy Suffolk village whether the culture has changed in forty years and you will, of course, receive a different answer. Hopefully though, they will both acknowledge a) change and b) that the change hasn't rid their respective lives of a sense of place. London still trades (however tackily) on the very fact that it is 'London'. Red buses, the West End, Parliament and the Thames; all quintessentially English and very much a part of the culture, as is the ebb and flow of colour and creed.

Culture is in essence our collective understanding of 'the way things are around here', and the majority of English people are, at the same time, averse to radical change whilst being capable of rationalising and adapting to it. We've done it for thousands of years.

Similar 'anti-English culture' arguments have arisen for thousands of years and yet we're probably more of a hybrid ethnicity than any other nation; the diversity should be celebrated, not worried about.

The issue of whether an individual likes or dislikes cultural change is only prevalent because some individuals are in the privileged position to be able to voice an opinion and have it published. That some of those individuals don't engage their brains before their mouths does not make them inherently racist, just mildly stupid.

Mozzer and Ferry didn't need academic qualifications or common sense to create great music that will eventually transcend the rather tawdry attempts to characterise them as something they're (probably) not. If they spout off nonsense or are misinterpreted (whichever it was), it's not the beginnings of a nationalist manifesto, more an unfortunate mis-calculation of timing and circumstance, so decide for yourself whether to listen to or ignore any future comments they make, and then go back to listening to the music.

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Oeufman | 11 December 2007 - 7:28pm
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