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"Awkward" cinema

badger_king's picture

Today's rant: What is it with the "awkward" American films that fascinates people so much?

We are of course talking about the films of such luminaries as Gus Van Sant (Last Days, Elephant), and Jim Jarmusch (Dead Man, Coffee & Cigarettes) and even Francis Ford Coppola (Rumble Fish) as well as others whose names escape me at present.

A film such as "There Will Be Blood" released a couple of years ago is a great example of what I would describe as awkward cinema. The reason for this is because you come out of the cinema (or to the end of the DVD if you're that masochistic) and feel a little bit nauseous. Not because of any grotesque gore fests or anything obvious, but because by and large, awkward cinema takes a bunch of characters you can't settle with, a story that could be told in a sentence, and then stretches it out to an almost infinite length. Aside from Jonny Greenwood's soundtrack (which did add to the sense of unease throughout the film) I could find no redeeming features.

Likewise with the other examples I mentioned. Today I watched Dead Man for the first time. I bought it for three reasons. It was £2, Johnny Depp's in it, and it has a soundtrack by Neil Young. How could it possibly fail, right? Except that it consisted of a 2 hour shambles of a film, with a bunch of disinterested (and uninteresting) characters who amble along with no sense of plot. And then it ends. Suffice to say I was not best pleased.

It does seem that there is an increasing trend towards this sort of movie, perhaps realising its hideous zenith with the world's most awkward film, Gus Van Sant's Last Days. Supposedly a film based on the last days of Kurt Cobain, in actuality it consisted of a man shuffling around mumbling for an hour and a half before a gunshot and the credits roll. Is this the height of art or a joke on us the consumer by sarky movie executives?

So my question today is this. Is it just me missing the "point" of these films, are they true art, or are they in fact bloated monstrosities of cinema, stretching bad characters and boring plots out to great lengths without any sense of quality control?

Over to you, the Massive.

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I watched 'Elephant'

and the only thing that I remember of it is that someone was wearing a yellow t-shirt. Or they may have been blond. Or both.

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Cobweb Steve | 15 January 2010 - 5:41pm

My thruppence..

the filmmakers you mention all came to prominence during a particularly dull period in American Cinema (late 80's early 90's)when ANYTHING that wasn't Simpson / Bruckheimer et al was praised to the heavens. Directors like Hal Hartley, Todd Haynes, Jarmusch, Atom Egoyan (Yep, I know he's Canadian), Soderbergh have all produced works of ponderous self-importance during this period that have not aged particularly well.
Having said that, I LOVE "TWBB", and do think it's a very "male" film that will stand the test of time and "Broken Flowers" does have its moments, so maybe they're all getting better as they older?

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Grant | 15 January 2010 - 5:50pm

Hmm...

I know lots of women who love TWBB. I think it is a film about maleness (and the flaws of maleness) rather than a very male film.

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goosefat101 | 15 January 2010 - 7:30pm

I, on the other

hand have not met any women that like TWBB, and that includes the GLW. Don't disagree with your analysis - you're pretty much spot on.

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Grant | 15 January 2010 - 8:07pm

Really

... not one?

All the female friends who I have spoken to about it as well as my girlfriend dig it.

There we go.

I guess it's like when politicians talk about getting the women's vote... which women? The rich ones? The poor ones? The black ones? The white ones? The goth ones? The sporty ones?

For reference my female friends are generally in their 20's or early 30's, tend to like good music, good films and are generally left leaning, or at least have a liberal bias and tend to have mixed sex friendship groups, although they certainly enjoy "girlie" things (but then so do I sometimes.)

About half of them hate post feminist stuff like Brigit Jones Diary and Sex In The City etc... with a passion, half of them refer to it as a guilty pleasure or like it. None of them read chic lit... unless Jane Austen counts, cos a couple of them read her.

Oh yeah and they all like The Wire, 6 Feet Under and Mad Men. And nearly all of them like Friends.

They all wear makeup, although some of them only started to recently and many of them don't wear it heavily. About two thirds of them shave their legs. Around about 3 quarters of them are white. Around half come from middle class backgrounds and half come from working class backgrounds. They are all university educated and most of them now have middle class incomes or at least outlooks.

Dunno if that narrows down the "type" of women who might like TWBB. And clearly I have too much time on my hands tonight (or rather boring things to do that I am distracting myself from).

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goosefat101 | 15 January 2010 - 9:20pm

Disagree

Firstly, I love Dead Man, if nothing else it is one of the most beautiful looking films ever made.

Secondly, I disagree that "there is an increasing trend towards this sort of movie". It's exactly because most Hollywood films are still vacuous dross that anything a little more awkward gets so much attention.

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Simon Ford | 15 January 2010 - 6:31pm

Okay so let's unpick this a bit...

There Will Be Blood is a very familiar single character's rise and fall story which although told with a modern sensibility is hardly a similar movie to ones which reject familiar narrative structures.

Paul Thomas Anderson who directed it has directed a series of interesting movies some which have been within familiar narrative structures and some that have been outside them. In my opinion he is a wonderful director. There Will Be Blood, Magnolia and Punch Drunk Love are all amazing films, with quality writing and quality performances, and Boogie Nights has many good things about it. There Will Be Blood and Boogie Nights out of all of PTA's films are his most conventional.

If you were going to address the strange plotlessness of films then Magnolia or Punch Drunk Love would have been more logical choices, although I would have disagreed I would have understood why you'd reached that conclusion.

As for the central question: What is it with the "awkward" American films that fascinates people so much?

I would argue that these films are one strand of film, you could call it art house or experimental or whatever, one that has been around for years and has produced some amazing films such as those of PTA and a couple of Jim Jarmusch films (e.g. Ghost Dog, Down By Law) and some awful films (Anything by Gus Van Saint, some Jim Jarmusch films, etc...).

This strand of films can no more be dismissed than Action Films, Police Procedurals or whatever... for each genre will produce great work and poor work.

This strand is nothing new and it is definitely not very dominant. You mention Coppola's Rumblefish for example, hardly a modern director. Within this strand of film you have sub-strands, so you have arthouse comedy such as Wes Anderson, and nowadays you have mainstream arthouse such as Juno or Little Miss Sunshine, or indeed There Will Be Blood.

And it isn't just am American phenomenon, the French do it too (See Jean Jeunet's Delicatessen or Amelie) for example, as I'm pretty sure do most western countries. In fact considering the history of film you could argue that this sort of film is very European in it's sensibility.

The current success of some of these films is really only due to the style having become completely absorbed into the cultural palette, people enjoy the style now, it is familiar to them, and so now the limits of the genre can be explored within mainstream pop culture. Whereas before it was more a niche sport.

People like to feel awkward. It's something that is universal and when done right it hits peoples nerves and provokes a reaction. But not everything is for all people. Gus Van Saint for example is not for me, he makes awful and boring, and yes pompous and pretentious works of twaddle.

But There Will Be Blood has more in common with Citizen Kane, The Godfather or Goodfellas than it does with Elephant, and it is much better for it. In fact the reason I prefer it to Kane and The Godfather is precisely because the epicness is filtered through the aesthetics of "awkward" cinema. It speaks much more to me because of that.

I haven't seen Dead Man. I don't really want to as Jim Jarmusch has become a bit of a parody of himself in some ways, and his refusal to have a plot does really grate on me sometimes. But his best work is good and so I'm happy he keeps on trying. Just as Terry Gilliam at his best is so fantastic that you can forgive him the Imaginarium Of Doctor Parnassus and Brothers Grim.

Basically what I am saying is:

This kind of cinema is not new. It is not dominant. It is not particularly American. And it is important that it gets made because it is one of the ways of mining the human condition. I'd rather people made mistakes than didn't make anything at all. That said these sorts of films can be as formulaic as a brainless action movie, with none of the fun chase scenes. So it is, as always, a fine line.

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goosefat101 | 15 January 2010 - 7:25pm

TWBB / Goodfellas / Godfather

I understand what you're saying throughout what youre's saying. You've summed up what I was trying to get at a bit more eloquently (and a bit better researched) than I did. I probably should have included Sin City in my original rant, which, agreed is a film noir / art house film, so you expect a certain amount of experimental qualities. But what is it about these type of films that society (or certainly some people) enjoy?
I guess that's another thing I should have asked. I do enjoy bleak films, something like Babel being a good example or the superb Icelandic documentary Hlemmur (which is about as bleak as you can get). But there are redeeming qualities.

Goodfellas and the Godfather are both close together stylistically for me. But what seperates them from There Will Be Blood is that while the characters in G and TG are essentially violent thuggish types whos swear a lot, they have very human traits that redeem them. Michael Corleone is brought into the family business almost by accident, and it ends up changing him for the worse. But he still cares about his family. You cannot hear the blood-curdling scream he emits in the 3rd movie and not understand the pain he feels at his daughter's death. And in Goodfellas, Joe Pesci's character is a terrier, a bit yappy, a bit unhinged, but he loves his mum and has a funny streak.

Daniel Day Lewis' Plainview doesn't have any of these human characteristics. He steals a baby in order to play the family card. He then treats his adopted son horribly. He steals oil from people. He's aggressive, violent and shows no remorse for his actions. Eli Sunday, the corrupt preacher, is another horrible character. Twisting the bible to his own ends, trying to blackmail money and generally being a smug little git that needs to have a good slap and man up a bit.

A film shouldn't keep you on the edge of your seat because you're waiting for something to redeem a film (or on the edge because you're considering very strongly leaving and asking for a refund).

But I would say if you enjoyed TWBB you'll LOVE Dead Man. It has a similar style. Although I had to try and explain to a 7 year old what I was watching. I replied "I'm not sure, it's been 2 hours and not a lot has happened". he asked "so why did you watch it?" Answer "I'm really not sure".

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badger_king | 16 January 2010 - 11:29am

I think Plainview

is really human, it just he isn't nice. He does show some love I think for his kid. The opening sequence of TWBB surely underlines his humanity as he scrabbles in the earth.

And his kid is certainly a human figre who you can relate to.

Personally I find the godfather boring. Goodfellas incredibly gripping and wonderful.

However you could compare TWBB to another epic Scorsese film, Raging Bull. Now to me Jake LaMotta is an unsympathetic a character as they come, petty, violent, misogynistic, preys on young girls, horrible to his family etc... but I still find great things in the film, And I can still relate to his character, see some of his pettiness etc... in myself and the world around me.

Plainview is that kind of character, like Citizen Kane (another film I find boring.)

What makes one person like a film and relate to it and not another is an impossible to define thing. I know people who love Citizen Kane and The Godfather but I can only appreciate them. Whereas TWBB I really did relate to.

Dead Man, from what I've heard, doesn't sound at all likely to get me going. I didn't dig Broken Flowers and I've heard it has a similar meandering episodic distant central character thing going on... although like I mentioned I love Ghost Dog so maybe I would like it. I find his films either immerse me or leave me frustrated.

I haven't seen Dead Man but I've read a lot of reviews and talked to some people about it, and heard interviews with it's director and they've all suggested to me that certainly in terms of narrative styles it is pretty distant from TWBB, although perhaps you are right Mr King and it has a similar aesthetic style.

I didn't like Sin City although I loved the comics it was based on. And I hate Gus Van Saint.

But I am not sure if this is really so much of an aesthetic trend or feeling you are highlighting here. It seems more to me that, like all of us, it is hard for you to understand why people like films you don't like. I share that feeling. I just don't get why people hate good films and like bad ones.

I'm just glad that good ones get made sometimes and accept that bad ones being made as well is the pay off.

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goosefat101 | 16 January 2010 - 2:12pm

dissimilar aesthetics of Dead Man

It doesn't look the same. It shares more visual tricks with Rumble Fish than it does with TWBB (B&W, slightly dodgy costumes, cheap sets, etc), but I think maybe the "feel" of the film is the same. It has some nasty characters and some that don't really have personality that don't really learn any lesson, and the one character that starts off a nice person is the one who kills the most people and goes insane.

You'll find it interesting if nothing else.

And like most people, I do find it hard when people like "bad" films. Of course everyone is allowed to their own opinion, like music. Each to their own and all that. I was just trying to understand "why" people like these types of film.

The argument tends to be a case of:
"but it's great film"
"why?"
"you clearly haven't watched it properly"
"EH?"

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badger_king | 16 January 2010 - 3:56pm

I know it's such a familiar argument isn't it?

From both sides. So many people telling me I haven't watched things properly... but then they go away and don't watch stuff properly themselves.

You've perked my interest up now, I think I'll have to give Dead Man a go!

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goosefat101 | 16 January 2010 - 4:19pm

Great films

Well, I thought both Dead Man and There Will Be Blood were great films. I also know several people who thought they were rubbish. Largely because, and I quote, "nothing happened" in them.

Whilst I would disagree with that suggestion, I can understand where they're coming from in the sense that they're not your traditional ABC Hollywood narrative. However, I was gripped from start to finish.

Both films just seemed to have a certain atmosphere that kept me transfixed, and that was due to a number of things - performances, cinematography and, by no means the least important factor, one hell of a soundtrack. A straight forward narrative is not the most important factor.

It's possibly worth noting that I saw both in a decent independent cinema. That still counts for something when watching non-blockbuster fare.

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Philip Stout | 16 January 2010 - 12:57am

Whilst I would agree with the original writer on Gus Van Sant...

...he is completely wrong on Jim Jarmusch who is quite clearly a genius. If you seriously think that "nothing happens" in a Jarmusch film, you're not watching properly.

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UtrechtSimon | 16 January 2010 - 9:39am

Jarmusch and Kaurismaki

Agreed, Jarmusch is a genius - witness the leftfield likes of Ghost Dog, Mystery Train and my favourite Night On Earth - and even his occasional bumnotes (such as, in my eyes, Dead Man), are still leagues ahead of a lot of his peers. He's clearly influenced (and in turn influences) the Finnish director Aki Kaurismaki, certainly in terms of dialogue (ie as little as possible), Gobi-dry humour, effortlessly cool soundtracks, hell, both even cast Joe Strummer! (and Finland's version of Bill Murray, Matti Pellonpaa).

I s'pose its all about management of expectation - don't go to a Jarmusch filum expecting a tight convoluted plot a la Usual Suspects anymore than you'd go to see a cinematic musing on the futility of existence in a Michael Bay film!

BR
FT

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Freaky Trigger | 16 January 2010 - 4:31pm
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