Entertainment For Lively Minds
Attn: Stewart Lee fans
Posted by Spartacus Mills on 4 May 2011 - 11:11pm.
New series of Comedy Vehicle starts in 10 minutes on BBC2.
Attn: Michael McIntyre fans - Isn't it funny when you go to the urinal, and there's another bloke there and your wee won't come out? Yeah?
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Thanks for reminding us Sam
Series link now set up on the V+ box.
(Have you got a drawer with stuff in? I have too. Wow, that's like really funny.)
To quote Simon Munnery
"Anyone ever noticed anything, ever?"
I'm sorry but these remarks DRIVE ME MAD
If you don't rate McIntyre fair enough but simply pointing out the method takes nothing away from the execution.
I'm sure every single person who contributes here upon hearing Alanis Mozzerette's "Ironic" thought "hmmm that's not really what the word 'ironic' means"
However Ed Byrne wrote the brilliant comic piece dissecting the song's lyrics which he delivers brilliantly in his stand up routine. That's because he's an EXTREMELY GIFTED comic writer with EXCELLENT stand up skills.
And you are simply the people who came along afterwards and observed how obvious it all was. It was obvious because we all noticed it but that guy over there forged it into comedy gold...
Stewart Lee is brilliant. In a different way. The possibility of one does not annihilate the possibility of the other.
And now I need to lie down
McIntrye
In my opinion, he is an exceptionally poor comic, peddling lowest common denominator observational comedy to the masses. His method is hackneyed, his execution irritating.
He is the Westlife of comedy.
But anyway, my McIntyre jibe was just a light-hearted attempt to get the retaliation in first, so to speak. Stewart Lee threads on here are usually hi-jacked by people criticising his style.
And at the same time...
McIntyre fans could no doubt say that Lee was unfunny, smug, incapable of telling a joke and only liked by a snobbish elite who would never really admit that he's actually not that good.
Perhaps he's the "Radiohead" of comedy, the overrated one who you have to like to be considered "hip"
That said I can't stand either of them. Give me Jack Dee any day.
Has it occurred to you...
...that some people MIGHT ACTUALLY FIND HIM VERY FUNNY? I don't get bent out of shape at all at people saying that they personally don't share that view, but it's a bit bloody annoying to be told that I only like him because it makes me feel cool and clever. HE MAKES ME LAUGH. A LOT. I wish people could restrict themselves to commenting on their own opinions rather than presuming to know how other people think.
But then I like Radiohead too, at least when they're making good records (i.e. not the latest one). So I suppose I must be part of the snobbish, hip elite.
*pauses while every single one of my relatives, friends and acquaintances laughs themselves hoarse at the idea of my being part of any group which might be considered "hip".*
Anyway. That's enough from me. I might have some lunch in a minute. Though, of course, I'll only be pretending to like it. I'd be stick thin if I didn't persist in this silly deceit of pretending to like eating so that people will think I'm cool.
I agree with Bob!
Knew it would happen soon enough ;-)
The first episode of the first series of Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle had me guffawing loudly throughout, particularly the stuff about comedians being brave, and the dissection of the hapless Franklin Ajaye. I laughed even more second time around. It really pisses me off when anyone imputes some spurious justification to my enjoyment of something which they don't enjoy.
My point was...
though I thought it was clear, that people can assume that McIntyre is for the thickos and that Lee for the snobs but everyone has different tastes in comedy and music and NO-ONE is right.
Try reading my post again, "McIntryre fans may say that" after they get slagged off and considered "uncultured" no doubt.
I am not telling you anything and couldn't give a toss what you have for lunch.
Not clear.
The part about only liking Lee because it makes you feel hip came in the Radiohead paragraph, and didn't at all seem to be linked to "McIntyre fans may say".
I think you may have missed the point of my hilarious lunch gag. I imagine you're just not sophisticated enough to understand my brilliant humour.
I guess not...
But as I was referring originally to LS's post which appeared to slag off McIntyre and I was putting an opinion that perhaps people who liked him may view Lee and his fans in a like minded fashion I fail to see why you are taking it so personally and getting your knickers in a twist.
Again, I like neither but Lee's fans do seem to take themselves awfully seriously.
Oh god.
*headdesk*
Please at least tell me you understand that large parts of the above are jokes?
As I said in my original response, I couldn't give a monkey's whether or not you like the bloke and/or his work, but I was a little annoyed at being told what I think. Which, whether intentionally or through an accident of sentence structure, you did.
Obviously...
now please tell me that you understand what a general remark is?
I do.
But I'd never realised that a remark being "general" meant that nobody could possibly get annoyed by it. Quite the reverse, actually.
I suggest we stop this, at any rate. I'm pretty bored, so Christ alone knows how everyone else feels.
You
two need to get out more.
The Radiohead stuff is true though.
(ducks and runs having knocked loudly on Thom Yorke's no doubt superior front door with the door bell that plays Mozart's Requiem in its entirety, thus assuring no-one bothers to stay to see the door answered, which is of course exactly what the miserabilist would want)
(ducks and runs to avoid the expected retorts from hundreds of Radiohead fans who would gladly stand and wait whilst Amadeus finishes his (brilliant) stuff just so they can get a glimpse of the miserable crooner)
Repeat ad infinitum... :-)
Have an up...
...for making me laugh.
Anyway, I can't go out. I'm too busy composing a lengthy apology thread.
Damn...
Me too.
My post...
appeared to slag off McIntyre because I was slagging off McIntyre. The fact that fans of McIntyre might not like a comic I like, and might slag him off in return, pretty much goes without saying and neither adds or detracts from what I said.
Mine too.
They could
And often do. I like arguing about the relative merits of comedians, musicians...etc, but these things tend to go up the spout when the 'emporer's new clothes' argument gets wheeled out.
It's McIntyre's delivery which makes me hate him.
Specifically his habit of helpfully laughing along himself when the funny bits are happening.
Plenty of comedians say fairly obvious stuff. The point is that its only obvious and funny once it has been pointed out so I have no problem with people who do that.
But comedians who laugh at their own material? I really don't like that. McIntyre is the worst for it. His over emphatic fake laughter serves to point out the thinness of the material.
Billy Connolly does that too
That kind of corpsing/pause, as if this-funny-thing-has-only-just-occurred-to-me. False corpsing is horrible and the refuge of the comedy scoundrel.
Billy Connolly does that too
That kind of corpsing/pause, as if this-funny-thing-has-only-just-occurred-to-me. False corpsing is horrible and the refuge of the comedy scoundrel.
I don't mind it
It's no crime to find your own material funny -- you're its first audience after all.
Stewart Lee laughs at his own stuff sometimes, too.
Did Billy Connolly do that in his early days?
I'm struggling to remember. Perhaps I didn't notice him doing that years ago because he was funny and my own laughter drowned him out.
But I notice him doing it now. Grrrrrrrrrrrr!
I don't mind it either
What I *do* mind is when it's not genuine. Unfair to have a go at Billy because overall he's a very funny man, but I have seen lesser comedians do it time and time again during the same routines and in the same places. Danny Baker calls it "tonguing in" a gag.
Me too
Stewart Lee is funny, but not that funny. Michael McIntyre is also funny, but very uncool, I guess...
I saw Stewart Lee on his last tour, and to say that he doesn't do observational comedy would be very wide of the mark. One of his funnier bits was a fairly trad riff on the observation that lots of people move away from London to the country/Australia/wherever for the 'quality of life', and what did this phrase really amount to. He did another piece on the slogan from the Magner's Pear Cider ads, again hardly cutting edge.
Stewart Lee
Reminds me of the quote about Richard Wagner (by Rossini, I think) "“Wagner is a composer who has beautiful moments but awful quarter hours”.
Hmm.
I don't think.
That I'll watch the new Stewart Lee thing.
Because his slow delivery.
And repetition.
And upwards and downwards inflection.
Annoys me a lot.
I don't think.
That I'll watch the new Stewart Lee thing.
Because his slow delivery.
And repetition.
And upwards and downwards inflection.
Annoys me a lot.
I don't think.
That I'll watch the new Stewart Lee thing.
Because his slow delivery.
And repetition.
And upwards and downwards inflection.
Annoys me a lot.
I don't think.
That I'll watch the new Stewart Lee thing.
Because his slow delivery.
And repetition.
And upwards and downwards inflection.
Annoys me a lot.
I don't think.
That I'll watch the new Stewart Lee thing.
Because his slow delivery.
And repetition.
And upwards and downwards inflection.
Annoys me a lot.
I expect a lot of "ups" from Stewart Lee fans now. If you do not, you are admitting that your master has no comedy skills.
Nope, not from me
Because when he does it, it's funny.
Aaaaah...
"You didn't expect me to say that."
The Ironic Review 1999
The perils...
...of posting when pissed, eh, Len? ;-)
You're famous, Lenny
If you have the patience to scroll through the (many, many) bad reviews on the front page of Lee's website, he quotes both you and Paddy H from a previous thread. I suppose this'll get added too.
http://www.stewartlee.co.uk/
Also
featured in his latest mailout.
Really edgy that...
posting bad reviews on your own website.
Actually
He does something which I've never seen another comic do, which is not merely cherry-pick a few cred-enhancing bad reviews from, for example, The Sun, but effectively face down as many negative comments as possible from all over the internet. Also, professional critics are accorded the same level of status as users of Twitter, bloggers, Amazon customers etc. So in that respect, it is quite edgy. It certainly made me feel edgy reading it.
I admire MacIntyre
but I don't find him funny. I doubt he'd give a toss about that as millions do find him funny. He plugged away on the circuit for years doing desperately unfashionable (for clubs) material. He was at least honest in not pretending to be anything other than a middle-class lad with clean observations about middle-class life. Which went down like a lead welly in most of the clubs he played, but he stuck with it.
He also lost out on £28,000 because he cancelled a gig at the last minute when he found out it was for a bunch of bailiffs, having been harassed by them himself earlier in his career. Arguably he didn't need £28,000 by then, but there are plenty right-on comics who would have done the gig, knowing it wouldn't be televised or publicized.
Anyway, I've just remembered this is a thread about Stewart Lee, so yes, looking forward to that on iPlayer tomorrow.
McIntyre v Bailiffs
You seem to be suggesting some form of altruism on McIntyre's part, when in fact he was just getting his own back on an industry that'd blighted him in the past.
And as for 'there are plenty right-on comics who would've done the gig'. What nonsense! How on earth do you know that?
Because I work in the comedy industry
and I know plenty right-on comics who would've done the gig.
And...
...what'd be wrong with a 'right-on' comic playing for bailiffs?
Nothing
providing they don't include 'being-ideologically-opposed-to-bailiffs' as one of the principles that makes them 'right-on.'
It begs the question...
...are bailiffs such a tight-knit group of party animals that they feel the need to go out en masse to watch a comedian?
Imagine the pre-gig chit-chat in the bar:
Bailiff #1: Alright Sid? Evicted anyone interesting lately?
Bailiff #2: Not bad Alf. I kicked out a single parent family today. Silly cow was behind with her rent. As I was booting the door down I told her, 'I'm only doing me job luv, so leave it out with the waterworks'. Of course, some of the kiddies' toys got a bit smashed when we threw them out the upstairs window, like, but what can you do? What time's the comic on, anyway?
In better Stewart Lee news (And better Richard Herring News)
Fist of Fun is being released on DVD
http://www.digitalspy.com.au/british-tv/news/a317734/stewart-lee-confirm...
I've got it Sky+d.
Going to watch it tonight. And my commutes yesterday and today have been spent listening to "90s Comedian" and "41st Best Stand Up Ever", actually. He never fails to delight me.
Here's what I don't get, though, right: why do people who don't like a specific comedian try to get fans of that specific comedian to admit that "s/he's JUST NOT FUNNY"? Well, you know, he obviously IS, to plenty of people. Same as McIntyre. I can't bear the sort of lazy observational stuff that McIntyre does, but I think he does it as well as anyone can, and he's made me chuckle a couple of times.
Trouble with Stew, though, is that he's made me really hyper-aware of observational stuff, to the extent that I have absolutely no tolerance of "ever noticed anything, ever?" comedy at all. Chris Addison, whose work I quite like, was doing a thing on Dave the other night, and I was looking forward to it, but it was completely ruined for me by the handful of "you know X, right?" moments.
So Stewart Lee has noticed that other comedians
talk about what they have observed and jokes about it. Isn't that also observational comedy? (And, yep, that is an observation - there could be no end to this.)
Hooray! Another Lee vs McIntire thread!
I know!
I'll just do this, and we can take the rest as read:
The end.
There. I think that's captured all the usual nuance and delicacy of the debate. Shall we leave it there?
;-)
Why is Michael McIntyre fat?
Why is Michael McIntyre fat? Because Stewart Lee's grandfather keeps feeding him various flavours of crisps (sibilant 's'), including plain and salt and vinegar.
(Do you see how I tied it all up there with multiple callbacks to earlier parts of the thread? That's comedy).
Those crisps...
of which you speak. Does he keep them in his "man drawer" perchance?
Cue hysterical laughter, including several audience members stretchered out clutching sides.
Both Stewart Lee and Michael
Both Stewart Lee and Michael McIntyre make me laugh. There's nothing lazy about either's comedy and I don't see one as the antithesis of the other, they just have very different approaches. Russell Howard on the other hand...
Amen!
I was reading this thread thinking 'I like both comedians for different reasons - Russell Howard on the other hand...' then there was your thread Andy!! You were in my head for a moment then - can you let me know what I want for lunch??
Good shout on Russell Howard, how many p*ss poor jokes can one man make about his oh so wacky family & stuff that was around in the early 90's!
If he's so keen on delivering good news he should at least have the decency to look me in the eye!*
* c/o Viz
I'm not carrying a huge torch for Michael McIntyre
But it does seem a bit odd to criticise him for generating "hysterical laughter" and for "several audience members stretchered out clutching sides". I may not get this comedy lark but surely having people laugh at your material is a reasonably good sign for a comic that he/she is doing something right?
Of course, there's another school of comedy that isn't especially funny but flatters its audience into thinking that, yes, they got that reference because they are a clever bunch but the general public, the people who laugh at Michael McIntyre are too stupid to pick up on it.
It could also mean
that some people will laugh at anything, no matter how poor it is in comedy terms.
How else do you explain the success of something like My Family?
*wading in...*
I think My Family is utter bilge, but there are times when very light, harmless comedies can connect. I would sit down and watch it with my parents and my kids because I know that no-one's going to suddenly have vigorous anal sex on the Aga while shouting swear words.
My brother-in-law the other day laughed heartily at the lamest, rubbishest, charm-free supermarket ad on the telly the other day. I was all ready with a Stewart Lee-esque sneer, but he really enjoyed it, wiping away tears, etc so what do I know?
Horses for courses, innit
My husband really enjoys My Family.
I can't stand it.
Similarly, my husband doesn't find anything that I find enjoy even remotely amusing (e.g. Stewart Lee, Psychoville, Flight of the Conchords). We're both equally bewildered by the other's taste in comedy.
The only programmes we both enjoy enough to watch together are Scrubs and Glee. Otherwise, of an evening I sit here tappity-tapping on the web while hubs watches Midsomer Murders. Seriously.
Tappity-tap.
Fair amount of that going on while Mrs Bob watches Grey's Anatomy, actually.
Midsomer Murders? Grey's Anatomy?
Luxury! I have to tappity-tap my way through things like Top 50 Celebrity Fat Brides.
*whispers*
I do enjoy the occasional bit of crappy tv, like The X Factor (I know, I know, don't hate me, I'm honestly a good person), but I record it on the tv in our bedroom and watch it there because my husband completely refuses to be subjected to it.
He's hugely into crime / medical dramas and watches them almost exclusively.
They're not my thing. The absolute pits is Casualty, because it stresses me out like nothing else. If husband ever forgets and sticks Casualty on, he gets a running commentary from me on the lines of "Oh god oh god that lady's going to die isn't she? oh god when's the accident going to happen, there's always an accident, that lamppost is going to fall on them isn't it, no maybe that cyclist's going to fall into that ravine, oh god is it going to be the small boy, I can't bear it, who's going to die, are they all going to die, oh god oh god when is this over".
Casualty
should be re-named "purgatory". The way they set up the unpleasantness to come is little short of sadism.
See that man up the ladder painting the guttering? In a couple of scenes from now he's going to fall off and impale himself on those railings, isn't he?
The ambulance will take an age to arrive and all the while he'll be screaming in agony while the camera shows close-ups of his appalling injury.
Why would you?
This may start a whole new row
but, I liked the description of Glee in Marina Hyde's Guardian column this morning:
*whispers*
I like Glee. But I follow the Rivers Doctrine, which is that there should be little to no Kurt or Rachel, and TONS of Brittany and Santana. Who are AWESOME.
I'm currently in the process of expanding my doctrine
I think more Sue Sylvester, Mike Chang, Puck and Miss Pilsbury; less Mercedes, Mr Schuester and Quinn.
Are we agreed?
Damn right.
Mercedes is annoying, Mr Schuester is so clearly gay that I can't deal with the implausibility of his sleeping with women, and Quinn doesn't do anything, especially now that she's back with Finn.
Sue is occasionally OTT but necessary, Mike Chang is constructed entirely from nuggets of awesome, and Miss Pilsbury is the saddest thing in the whole show.
I can take Puck or leave him, but if you want to give him doctrinal backing, I'll support you.
*Whoosh*
[Wishes he'd not started this as he has NO idea what these guys are talking about.]
Oh, and Nuggets of Awesome must surely be a TMFTL?
You need to get some Glee in your life
They sang a Lykke Li song this week.
But
I like to listen to Lykke Li singing her own songs...
Yeah, me too actually
The Glee versions of songs are normally terrible, I was just trying to flag up they included a pretty decent track this week.
Actually, as a rule, the singing bits are by far the worst bits of the show. I know it's almost Glee's USP, but the dialogue in the rest of the program is really snappy.
More Mike Chang? Noooooooooooooooo!
I've never seen anyone more desperate to build up their part. That said, he's a good dancer.
Not mad on this series. No one's talking about it like they did the last one. It's officially Gone Off.
Brittany S Pearce is the
Brittany S Pearce is the best character in it
So
Are you saying that there's comedy which is somehow approved and other comedy which isn't? Can you explain how the line is drawn? Or is it analogous to the old arguments I used to have at school when we went off bands we'd previously liked because they suddenly had success and were therefore "too commercial"?
Obviously, I'm ruling out comedy at the expense of minorities or sexist material. I'm talking about your implication that there's some sort of quality judgment that everybody can recognise. Surely it just comes down to what makes you laugh?
No.
There's a committee. I'm on it.
I wish I was
I'd ban good-looking, trendy comics. Comedians should be outsiders. I never liked Stewart Lee when he was younger because he was too handsome.
As opposed to the...
...crumpled Morrissey or squashed Albert Finney of late? ;-)
Is that a Stewart Lee routine you've just cut 'n' pasted, Bob?
I'm not sure exactly when I went off Mr Lee. I was a huge fan of Lee and Herring. I still have their book in the khazi.
What is really amazing is how Herring gets away with it
Now he really isn't funny. He held Lee's career back for many years.
Should he get his own thread?
Okay
Richard Herring v Russell Howard...
Goddamn it!
I keep laughing at Herring's stuff too.
Can someone provide a definitive list of comedians that are actually funny so I can stop laughing at comedians who aren't funny.
I keep getting it wrong with music too and keep enjoying stuff that is rubbish.
And shorts.
You can laugh at Tommy Cooper
er, that's it
Maybe it's like Wham...
Nobody really cared who the talented one was because they were both twats.
Benny Hill was the best......
.....especially when he got chased at the end by all those tasty dollies.
Bah.
I wish I'd seen this thread last night. Missed it, and it's not repeated (and I'm rubbish at watching stuff on iplayer)
Repeats
When I first read your comment, I thought you meant you'd missed the thread and it wouldn't be repeated. If only : - ).
Here's an observation for you
I've noticed some people like stuff and other people like other stuff. This means people disagree and sometimes get cross. If we didn't disagree from time to time this blog would become very dull and as long as it isn't personal it's fine.
Observations aren't automatically funny you know and both MacIntyre (who makes me laugh) and Lee (who doesn't) are both brilliant at it and can take a simple observation and using their particular style turn it into a routine that hold people in thrall and make them laugh. I wish I could do it, the same way I wish I could sing, I can't do either and that's not funny.
What a strange thread
There is an occasional difficulty on this board where people are so desperate to maintain some kind of illusory, real-ale-pub-in-Cornwall vibe that any expression of strong opinion gets attacked and results in the bizarre CAPITAL LETTERED SHOUTING REDOLENT OF THE MAD that we see above.
Mcintyre? Dreadful insipid crap I reckon. He's a sort of comedy Coldplay really.
I absolutely love Stewart Lee. However, I don't actually find him particuarly funny. I find him intellectually enthralling but not actually laugh out loud funny. And thats just fine.
Exactly
I feel that way too. Watching Stewart Lee in full flow is like watching an especially entertaining and thought-provoking public speaker.
I don't think I've ever laughed out loud watching him, but my admiration of his work knows no bounds.
It's the delivery, stupid
I cannot watch McIntyre because of the his performance. The marching up and down the stage nodding and shaking his head manically for any length of time is maddening. His voice grates and I find him annoying. The content is fine if you like observational comedy, but as someone who grew up watching Jack Dee and Jerry Seinfeld I have had my fill of acts that do purely observational humour and I now look to other forms of comedy expression and Stewart Lee is somewhere near the top of the pile for me because I had never seen comedy delivered in his manner and he hits the spot most of the time.
Isn't this the point that...
...ranger turns up and tells us that all comedy's been shit since 'That Was The Week That Was' was cancelled?
;-)
1971...
Greatest year ever for comedy. Certainly nothing any good since 1975.
I haven't laughed since 1973 myself
:(
For the record
I watched the first ep of Comedy Vehicle yesterday, and laughed so much I was in danger of choking on my lunch, a small portion of which was involuntarily expelled, possibly via the nostrils.
I've hardly seen anything of McIntyre in action, will have a look, in fairness.
Did you see...
...any of "Stewart Lee Presents...Kevin Eldon" on the BBC site? It's HILARIOUS, and particularly because Stew is absolutely pissing himself the whole time he's interviewing Eldon. A rare glimpse of Stew the bloke, rather than Stew the stage construct.
My Sky+ went batshit on me so I had to catch up on iPlayer during lunch yesterday. Comedy Vehicle was just wonderful. I was lucky I was alone in the office, because my laugh *carries*.