Quadrophenia - My generation by j0sue

It's a visceral thing. (And I think it's stretching the definition of pop to breaking point to include the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Colin!) The whole point of dancing is that there's no point. It's just pleasurable. It's fun. And the urge to do it comes from somewhere in our hindbrain. It's what all music was originally for. Yes, dancing is one of the reasons I was attracted by pop.

The other reasons were that I thought pop stars looked cool, and I thought being interested in pop might make me cool and help me have sex with girls.

From 3:03 onwards...

The Who were always a "proper" RnB Dance band (unlike the Stones who worshipped at the pure Blues altar of Alexis Korner) - not shy about covering Motown and Stax. Post 1968, Townshend got the Meher Baba bug and Daltrey believed he was London's answer to Robert Plant and everything changed.

edit - the good captain just beat me to it...

Can anyone resist some form of lower body movement when you first hear the bass line to "Billie Jean"? Dancing - it's preprogrammed in our DNA - it just needs a groove to bring it to the surface

I got into music simply because I wanted to do what those guys were doing up there on the stage. I wanted to play guitar like George, John or Eric and sing like Paul. And yes, I wanted the adulation of my peers (and girls, of course).

Dancing had less than nothing to do with it. That's peripheral stuff for non-musicians (or civilians as we call them) to worry about and need not concern those who are actually making the music (ie doing the important stuff).

I later learned to love Mick Jagger for what he does, but at the start it was always Keith and Brian I watched, never Mick.

...The Who I'm talking about is, I suppose, the Who of Woodstock and beyond. I've never responded much to their 60s pop phase.

The music I got into earliest, if it has any common thread, was all about 'atmosphere' and creating a world in the mind - from Neil Diamond's 'Brooklyn Roads' to Dexy's 'Geno' to Jethro Tull's 'witch's Promise' to arlo Guthrie's 'Gates Of Eden' to Gary Numan's 'Are Friends Electric' to Quintessence's 'Giants' to the incredible, exotic soundworld of the Mahavishnus.

That late 70s/very early 80s period - of both TOTP and discovering older music on second hand records etc - was massively formative. Other than toe-tapping, no physical movement was necessary: it was all internal, but the joy was great.

Each to his own, I guess, but I think you're in the minority if you feel the joy of music in your head rather than further down

...it would be silly to do something that felt purposeless and foolish, if that's how one feels about it. I also know a (very pretty and svelte) girl who doesn't dance (ie its nothing to do with weight issues or fear of rejection etc) - who thinks it's absurd as well - and I think that's more unusual: for some reason girls seem to have 'social dancing' in their DNA, generally. Hence all this Zumba stuff at gyms these days.

Colin, dancing's fun *as long as* you understand that it isn't about "skill" or formal steps, it really is about leaping around like a loon.

I'm a cerebral sort of chap too (well, I was once...) and I've discovered rather late in life that dancing makes me feel great and takes me out of myself - something that seems very, very necessary sometimes.

I understand what you mean about this, though: music being "all about 'atmosphere' and creating a world in the mind". As a teen, music was something I listened to on my own in the dark, to escape. Now, increasingly, it's something I do socially.

Still, not dancing is nothing to be ashamed of - you should never be forced to have fun. And people who try to force you to have fun are [very bad words censored] in my view.

To make me attractive to girls.

I'm still waiting.

I think my main reason to start listening to pop & rock music was simply to rebel. I've never been a dancer (apart from quite a lot of very sweaty pogoing in the late 70's) so that could never have been the reason - you'll always find me in the kitchen at parties.... I'll be tapping my toes though.

I got into music for several reasons:

I could escape with it.
I could daydream to it.
I could daydream about girls to it.
I could dance to it.
I could sing to it.
I could jump around to it.
Kim Wilde.

in bands to avoid having to dance. I was quite into prog at school but I never Did the Hobbit. Or The Khatru. Later got into punk. But the only time I attempted to pogo ( to impress a girl...why else? ) I slipped and broke my ankle. I had to pretend all night that nothing was wrong even though I was in perfect agony.

On the whole I think I'm quite suspicious of records which exist purely to make someone dance. There has to be something *more* for me otherwise I tend to lose interest.

But on this occasion he's talking bollocks.

I have absolutely no desire to dance. I cannot stand it, and the prospect holds no attraction for me - quite the opposite, in fact.

I love music. I quite frequently get moved to tears by it. Or lifted to new heights of joy. But I can't - and don't want to - move my body to it.

I liked the sound of something on the radio and wanted to hear it again. Does it have to be any more complicated than that?

because of the great tunes. Dancing is for dancers.

...beginning to attract defenders.

Slowly, against all hope, the bravest of the townsfolk come out of their homes and line up beside Gary Cooper, as the clock moves inexorably onwards...

"...don't dance"? What, not even with a beautiful girl because she wants to? Really?

pop because I liked the tunes. I then became obsessed with music because I wanted to be up on the stage. I have never ever felt even the slightest urge to dance, so can only agree to disagree with Andrew Harrison and his frankly ludicrous generalisation.

I've not read Andrew's column yet, but jumping around like an idiot doesn't have to mean dancing. You might just be jumping around your bedroom, flat, etc... like I was last night while listening to something. Or moving to the music in a particular way. Or air-guitaring. Exciting music provokes certain reactions ... I don't think it's a ludicrous generalisation. Granted not all music has that 'I need to move now' effect.
So are there people here who have never wanted to dance to pop music at any point in their lives? Seriously?

but it was not the reason I got into music or continue to be into music.

Jumping around - well perhaps, and I do find myself doing it oddly when I'm in the kitchen and something like Virginia Plain or Ca Plane Pour Moi comes on, but I wouldn't say that's the only reason I like music or started to like it.

It goes far deeper than that.

Most of the people I know who don't like dancing, in fact all of them, are male. And I think a big part of the problem is that they don't know what steps to do on the dance floor. From the inhibited teenager hanging around on the sidelines, to the clumsy dad-dancer, moves don't come naturally. So bring back dances with proper steps, and, paradoxically, men won't have to think about what they're doing. Then they'll be able to enjoy themselves.

And they'll be able to put their arms round a girl as well.

This may be a gross generalisation, but are the people who say they don't like to dance the people who tend to be fans of prog and/or more technical music?

There's something indefinably visceral about good pop music that makes you shake your tailfeather (or other body parts) involuntarily. I'm going to stereotype further now, but I'd say those who don't dance are more impressed by the skill used to create the music than the sound of the actual music itself.

...is trying to start a fight! We'll not be dancing with the Captain tonight... :-D

There may be some people who respond to proggy music by primarily delighting in how complex it is, but for me I couldn't care less about that if the MUSIC doesn't grab me for its own sake first. (Personally, I've no interest in Yes, ELP, Genesis, Crimson - save for the 'Red' album - and many other noodlesome heavyweights. I'm sure they're all virtuosi but I just don't like or respond to the music - whereas Jethro Tull, Atomic Rooster, Focus, Mahavishnu... it's a whole different kettle of fish!).

So having swatted aside the Captain's outrageous broad brush stroke, I'd like to expand on the 'no black and white answer, matey' approach by revealing my first two singles purchases (Tubeway Army's 'Are Friends Electric?' and Dexy's Geno) along with two fabulous second hand singles I picked up around that time (Tull's 'Witches Promise' and The Who's 'Won't Get Fooled Again')

All four were pop hits, all four are - to my mind - fantastic records/songs to this day. I responded instinctively to all of them, yes, even the one that was a faux Northern Soul foot-stomper. And I felt NO inclination to seal the deal with any untoward physical movement. That's the key arguement here: that there are people who LOVE pop/rock music (or at least bits of it) who simply don't feel the need to 'jump around like an idiot'!

because it sounded nice.

Go back a minute... Colin, you don't like the Rolling Stones? ANY of their stuff? Are you sure you have given them a chance? They were pretty good at one time you know...

...bring that up, Stevemeister!

To be fair, I DO recall, when younger, getting excited about the studio version of 'Gimme Shelter' - which, again (as per my slightly vague suggestion of a common thread in my musical interests), has a really exotic atmosphere about it and some kind of exotic story element (like old blues songs about 'goin' down to Lou'siana, way behind the sun' or 'down to the crossroads' or suchlike). I suppose that's what appealed to me about it. But all that stuff getting off people's clouds or not getting satisfaction - dreadful!

Still, next time I'm round at Trevor's place knocking back the wine I'll get him to put some stones on... can't say fairer than that! :-)

back directly to The Monkees "Headquarters" everything else has just been a different version of that. I may have jumped around like an idiot to "Randy Scouse Git" but I was only 5.

or so I thought but then I remembered that British Sea Power a few weeks back had me jumping around like a div at a gig for the first time in nigh on 20 years and it was GREAT. I used to do it all the time -more usual for me is a bit of a dad-shuffle. Wouldn't really call either dancing but Mr H might be on to something for once.

...one aims to please :-D

..get into music because they go through a stage when they are looking for something that is not offered by their parents, or by any authority that they have been presented with. Music represents something seems attractive and at the time adult. It's made by people who have had experiences that you have yet to have, and sometimes it expresses those experiences in a beautiful way. And this is offered without any judgment or expectation.

To say something like "people just get into pop music because they want to jump around like an idiot" is fairly dumb. To say the least, it's willfully dumb. It's the kind of regressive statement made by people with some weird point ...a "let's dumb anything which shows any danger of being important, down to its lowest common denominator" kind of point. How more annoyed can I get about this ..

Hats off to Harrison: it WAS a statement designed to spark debate which, of course, is a goal/function of op ed writing. And on this occasion I thought it an interesting notion - and genuinely wondered was I alone in having no interest/instinct towards physical response to music. Clearly I'm not!

Anyway, let us all tap our toes to Monkee Mike as he commends us to LISTEN to the band. I'm all for that. Other responses to the music are available.

this 'never felt the urge to dance' stance. It seems weird that people don't get that kind of thrill from music.

Try this: Find a quiet room, put this on loud, and do what Ray tells you. IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE

...but Captain, with respect, I could just as easily say 'put on some headphones, pour a whiskey and enter the magical mind-world of the Mahavishnu Orchestra'. I'm sensing that you'd 'never feel the urge' - and that's totally fine with me! :-)

It really is just two different responses to music - neither one 'better' or more natural than the other.

And I do, of course, love the Blues Brothers as much as the next man!

...in swaying and grooving to the 'Dance Of Maya'?

No one has adequately pinned down the time signature for this - including band members (the bass player reckoned 13/8, others says 10/8 or 5/4 or something else entirely) - and yet it does groove.

5 to the floor! Let's boogie!

I'm tempted to paraphrase the great Bill Shankley:

Some people believe music is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.

I feel it might be time for Kid A (©Pencilsqueezer), who makes an appearance when the Massive's collective goat has been got. In an unusual development, this image is a shot taken in the wild:

Working class boys dance
Middle class boys don't

That's all.

...I finally opened my new issue and read the offending article. I agreed with every last word of it. Excellent stuff.

wrote a rather splendid piece the other day about how she experiences music (and saying how she finds compiling end of year lists unrealistic and clinical). The final exquisite par seems relevant to this thread. I think she expresses how I feel about music, even though I can't dance to save my life.

Because I don't know that this is how most of us experience music. Just as the autopsy report tells us little of the life lived, gives us no flavour or scent, no humour or passion of the individual passed, I can't help but feel that these end-of-year lists, however considered and thoughtful and heartfelt, tell us little about the way we have relished music over the past 12 months of our lives. I believe that the way most of us experience music is not in a system of weights and measures and lists, but in a way that is red-blooded and vibrant and vital: we feel it in our bones and our bodies, in our hearts and our hips; we feel it dancing on a Friday night, charging right up from our stockinged feet.

You can read the full Guardian article here. Do. It's really good.

When I was about ten or so I was listening to one of those compilation 8-Track tapes and I first heard "Crimson and Clover" I was so impressed that I had to run and tell the family what a great song it was and I played it over the speakers in my house..so I guess I've always been a head over the feet type of Pop aficionado.

Got into music because it's the highest artform, ya?

You don't need 'educating' to love it, and music has an emotional impact that doesn't need language.