using tact and diplomacy and well done you for not resorting to battering someone. You're the better man than the fuckwit on the train, and even though you're rattled now you'll feel better in the morning, he won't.

That all sounds horrible and stressful. I suspect though, that physical violence would only escalate the matter into something really nasty. Hard as it is, keep turning the other cheek. It makes you the better man.

I speak as a fellow pacifist of sorts. My personal brand of pacifism entails attempting to avoid violence wherever possible. However, in heightened circumstances (threat to my person, friends, family) I would certainly resort to violence.

I am also a vegetarian. If I were placed in a position where I had no choice but to eat meat or die, I would eat meat. These are not moral absolutes - you find your position of comfort, try to apply them sensibly and that's that.

I'm really sorry to hear about what you've had to go through tonight, please don't give yourself a hard time about it, it's the arsehole who was hassling you who should feel bad.

about a drunk on the Glasgow train, Mark.

And probably not much consolation at the moment, but staving him off for the entire journey without planking him, shows a hell of a lot of social skills and diplomacy.

Have another voddie, and sleep well in the knowledge that you're the better man.

But honestly, I'm so sick of it.

I appreciate that when I'm up in court asking "why did you hit someone in the face" the answer of "I fancied a change of scene" is pretty poor, but I reckon if you hit assaulted the judge 7 times on the 8th he would end up head butting you as well.

Feel so depressed about humanity at the moment.

Not exactly light reading for half past o'clock when you're a bit pissed but I got smacked in the head in autumn 2010 in Edinburgh which led to a non-court case in spring 2011. I posted here about it

http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/the-hard-way-earn-130

It's a monster of a post (my fault) and there are lots of comments (blame the Massive), but some of them do explore the whole issue of violence and retaliation, so I hope the link helps in some way.

i am also short & overweight - and sometimes it's not fun. Occasionally i do like the idea of standing up to a full 6'6", peering down at some mouthy ned in the process of pissing his trackie bottoms, and just saying, 'Exactly what was it you wanted?' But such things are impossible for the average short arse (ninja training excepted) ...

Anyway, i hope you get a good night's sleep at least

...earlier this year.

Me & a mate found ourselves in a village in North Wales on a Saturday night; and encountered a depressingly stereotypical young Welshman with several huge chips on both shoulders, which he wanted to offload onto us "English c*nts."

I'll spare you the details, but he was spoiling for a fight, and we didn't give him one. I was seething afterwards, thinking "why didn't I just twat him?" - there were two of us to one of him, and he was pretty drunk - but the next morning, I was glad we hadn't given him the fight he clearly wanted.

To him, it would have been just a regular Saturday night's entertainment, in the arse-end of nowhere. To us, a big deal; something painful and upsetting, whether we won or lost. So I'm glad we didn't get sucked into his sad little hole; and you can be too, in your similar case.

(Lay off the voddy now though, eh!?)

If you can avoid it, I would. The guy who's drunk on the train by rush hour is probably no stranger to the old holding cell. You on the other hand, want to keep your ears intact and your nose unbroken. At the end of the day you'd be giving him what he wanted if you'd lamped him one.

I've wanted to knock a few losers out but always resisted and walked away or just gave them a verbal punch up instead.
It probably helps to be a woman, less threats of physical violence I would guess.
Afterwards I've gone home and relived the scene in my mind several times, each time beating them up better than the last in my imagination... Which is both satisfying and frustrating at the same time, "Yeah, that's what I would have done to you if I wasn't such a nice person" vs "Why couldn't I have done that instead ?"

I seem to have the double advantage of both looking very friendly and kind so that most people want to be nice back, and also looking rather intimidating when I get angry so anyone trying to pick a fight will back off.

I hope your head won't be too sore when you wake up tomorrow!
Big hug!

are "How old are you?"

Would be tough guys are generally taken aback by being greeted by disdain rather than fear or aggression. The "you are behaving like a child" subtext is clear enough to penetrate the thickest head.

And here's to you turning the other cheek. As Helena says, you're the bigger and better man for it and it's to your absolute credit that you're thoughtful and tactful enough to weigh both sides and come down on the side of the angels.

Best of luck with the banana liqor though... surely no good can come of that! Either way, will raise a glass to you tonight.

But then, it's all theoretical with me, having never been in a fight apart from some stupid pushing and shoving with some idiot at the front at Glastonbury in 2003.

I do think sometimes violence is justified. Just not the vast majority of the time. But in this case, you did the right thing. The superhuman thing, honestly. Well done you, Mark.

but If someone throws a punch at me I sure as hell will stop one.
The only time violence is an acceptable response is in defence of oneself or in defence of those in no position to defend themselves.
Thankfully I've not been in either position for a good few years.
The last time was about fifteen years ago when a drunken idiot mistook me for someone else at a house party. Out of nowhere he gripped me by the throat, pushed me against a wall and started spewing out a torrent of incoherent abuse. I kneed him in the balls which loosened his grip and bent him over enough so I could knee him in the face. I'm not proud of this. It didn't make me happy in any way to inflict hurt on another person but it was me or him. It was not going to be me.
I sincerely hope this is the last time you are faced with that kind of intimidation in your life and well done you for not rising to the bait. You responded in exactly the right way. Not sure about the Banana juice though!

Sorry to hear about that,Mark. I would recommend a couple of Self-defence classes. My Brother teaches Krav Maga and i studied aikido and we were both Junior amateur boxers,Our father is a trainer,and the one thing that comes across in all these is "don't look or act like a victim".
Just learning to stand right and how to convey an air of confidence works wonders. Bullies and idiots always back away if they think for a second they themselves will get hurt. Walking away is always the first,and usually best, option.But if there is no other option Hit first,Hit Hard,then run away.
Remember that the reactions of a drunk are slowed considerably and they are not expecting you to strike first.
Have look on the web for classes in your area and make sure that the instructors are alligned to a federation and give it go. What have you got to lose.

You're the bigger man for walking away. Any idiot can wade into a bundle. If you can, walking away is always the better bet. But I agree with Sourcroat, faced with certain aggro it's probably better to get your revenge in early. There's an emotional reaction lurking guiltily within me as well. Part of me longs for leering oafish drunken wankers to run into someone who gives them a good hard smack. If this happened often enough they might learn to behave in a way more in line with society's norms.

I remember sitting in a pub garden on Sunday lunchtime and at a table in the middle of the garden sat a bunch of idiots, well lubricated, turning the air blue with endless four letter words and raucous hooting at inane vulgar jokes. They were surrounded by families with kids. I don't wish to reopen the free speech discussion here. But we were thrilled when a very big bloke, smartly dressed but really looked like he could handle himself, got up from one of the family tables and walked slowly over to their table. I doubt many people heard what he said, but we did as we were quite close. He leaned over their table and said, gruffly "there are kids here. Keep it down or I'll smack your fucking heads together". And walked off. We, and they, had no doubt he could and would. They finished their lager and left. We were thrilled!

I'M JUST USING CAPITALS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO FOCUS. WELL DONE FOR RESISTING THE URGE TO THUMP. HOPE THE HEAD DOESN'T HURT TOO MUCH THIS MORNING. DRINK A PINT OF WATER AND TAKE AN ASPIRIN. STAY IN THE DARK. DOZE. IT WILL PASS.

It's always better to walk away if you can BUT ...you were on a train. That's the worse scenario - trapped ... as you were. You did well. Be Proud.

and I don't know you

But by crikey you were the strongest man on that train last night by a country mile.

well that sorts that one out. Next, one religion...give me 5.

nor being hit since I've left school. Being tall I think helps - but I think standing up straight and carrying yourself confidently has an affect as well. Bullies will go and look for someone who fits thier view of a victim. It was different at school - being tall but skinny I think made a useful target - big enough to have some credibility to punch, skinny enough to not be too much of a threat. I usually talked my way out of trouble but I would always hit someone back and that alone used to finish the few fights I got involved in.

I will avoid getting into conversations with drunks. A short no rather than any dialogue usually means they move on to the next person. I will avoid direct eye contact as well (but I'll keep an eye on them just in case).

Drunks on trains is one of the main reasons I tend to drive to Word meet ups. The last few trains home are horrible places to be and I'd rather not have a few drinks to avoid that kind of environment.

Regarding hitting someone first if I think they are going to hit me, I'd like to think I could do that. But I'm not convinced I would to be honest.

Take him out. He'll never bother you again.

If I even see a fight take place it leaves a sour taste. I'm strong enough to defend myself if it came to the crunch, but I'd go out of my way to avoid physical confrontation.

I haven't been in a fight since I was about 12, and none of the ones I had up to that point amounted to much. Like any right thinking person, I loathe bullies; like quite a few people, I've had many a fantasy about dishing it out to the bullies and teaching them the error of their ways. In reality, it simply wouldn't work. If you're not used to hitting people, punching someone (a) will probably not hurt them as much as you want or imagine it would, especially if they're a seasoned scrapper; and (b) could actually hurt you. Secondly, and again if you're not accustomed to being hit, it's a fair bet that a hard punch from someone who's used to dispensing them will hurt you a lot; it could well knock you off your feet; it could even knock you out. Then you're totally fucked.

I'm slightly above average height and slim. Much as I like to imagine I could handle myself in a fight, the plain truth is I almost certainly couldn't. And Mark, from your self-description, I think the same would probably apply to you. As things stand, I think you did absolutely the right thing, and please ignore anyone here or elsewhere who tells you to "take him out." It would end badly.

On the other hand, self-defence classes are a good idea. If you have a rough idea how to defend yourself, people can and will pick this up, even if you are not overtly aggressive. It will give you more confidence in resisting invitations to a dust-up, and if it became unavoidable, you'd actually have some know-how and might stand a chance. Even then, though, it's not a sure thing. I had a client once who told me she was mugged by two men. Even though she was a black belt in tae kwondo and could almost certainly have put both guys in hospital, she froze, and couldn't stop them stealing her bag.

I really hope this horrible event doesn't linger too long, and that you can take some consolation from the many people here who have said, quite rightly, that this idiot who tried to pick a fight is a loser who is ultimately deeply unhappy with himself.

Growing up I was a scrapper. I had a temper that I didn't yet know how to control. Never started fights, but I never backed down. I was like that until my early 20s. Trust me, it really does not make you feel any better or different. You may be thinking I wish I'd hit him; I spent several years wishing I didn't. There's no feeling of victory afterwards if you've come out on top, certainly none if you've come out the worst.

Mostly it was guilt and regret and quite often real physical pain. Several broken noses, a fractured cheekbone, a dislocated shoulder that still causes me problems over 20 years later. If I could go back to my younger self I'd tell him to walk away, run if you have to. There's no shame in making sure you're safe. And also, if you're the sort of person who steps in to help other people you're certainly not any sort of coward or weak.

Be glad the only pain you might have this morning is a hangover.

Yes of course violence is sometimes justified. But not on a train. That’s a bad idea.

Are you plugged into headphones during this journey. In my experience if you’re head is clearly elsewhere (e.g. a Word podcast) these idiots would be more likely to leave you in peace or you might not even hear their opening gambits. They’ll soon get fed up.

I’d also suggest – with no insight whatsoever into your personal circumstances (sorry) – that you desist from this crazy commute. Either take a job in Glasgow or a flat in Edinburgh.

Here's me, waiting on Platform 2 at Chippenham for the 6.25 a.m. to Paddington:

You comments really helped, feel much saner now.

You all rock -or- (insert your favourite music genre here)!

Stay cool everyone
Fat mark

...people like the drunk in the OP are all mouth with nothing to back it up, who'd probably back down immediately if anyone fronted them out.

If someone's intent on attacking you, they'll just do it, without bothering with the niceties of an introduction.

You did the right thing.

Always when pushed into it by some idiot (One idiot and two of his friends one night and I didn't look too good the next morning).I have a few of those "Maybe I should have decked the guy" memories but I console myself that that could have been the time where it escalated into something terrible...for me or them.All it takes is a moment in those situations for death or permanent injury to occur.Waking up every morning to face a new day is a gift(Not to sound too full of crap).When pushed you have to act sometimes but don't waste too much time on drunken mouthy morons..and know that people like that usually get it in the end anyway.

But George Melly when confronted by three young thugs looking for trouble as he was returning to his digs after one of his gigs whilst in Manchester in 1952. He attributed avoiding certain disfigurement, and possibly even death, by reciting the Dada sound poem Ursonate by Kurt Schwitters . The three louts looked at Melly as if he was barking mad and scarpered off in the opposite direction.

Opening lines

Fümms bö wö tää zää Uu,
pögiff,
kwii Ee.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooo,

dll rrrrr beeeee bö
dll rrrrr beeeee bö fümms bö,
rrrrr beeeee bö fümms bö wö,
beeeee bö fümms bö wö tää,
bö fümms bö wö tää zää,
fümms bö wö tää zää Uu:

Hope you feel better today. Best wishes

I read this a while ago in Shortlist, and have copied it from their website. I think it's brilliant:

This is simply about not engaging with your aggressor at the level they expect. I was coming back from a hotel at about 3am one night and there was a guy in the street with his girlfriend. He was really drunk, clearly looking for a fight and he started kicking off at me. I had a routine ready in my head for this sort of situation and it worked a treat on this occasion. He asked me that typical aggressive rhetorical question — “Do you want a fight?” You can’t say “yes” or “no” — you’ll get hit either way. So, I responded with, “The wall outside my house is four-feet high.”

I didn’t engage at the level he was expecting me to, so immediately he was on the back foot. He came back with, “What?” and I repeated my bizarre response. I delivered the line in a completely matter-of-fact tone, as if he was the one who was missing something here. Suddenly, he was confused. All his adrenaline had dropped away, because I’d pulled the rug from under him. It’s the verbal version of a martial-arts technique called an ‘adrenaline dump’, whereby you get the person to relax before you hit them. A punch will have much greater impact if the recipient’s guard is down. I stuck to this surreal conversational thread with my assailant, saying things like, “I lived in Spain for a while and the walls are really huge, but in this country they’re tiny.” After a few of these exchanges, he just went, “Oh f*ck!” and broke down in tears. The guy had all this adrenaline and was on the point of really laying into me — I was seeing myself beaten to a bloody pulp — but these non-threatening nonsense statements broke that aggression down and he genuinely started crying. I ended up sitting next to him on the kerb, comforting him. It’s the same with guys that come up and ask to “have a look at your phone”, and you end up handing over your stuff and hating yourself for doing it — you can use the same approach. My PA had some stuff nicked in a Tube station recently, and I said to him, “If you’d just starting singing, they would have left you alone.”

...I wonder if it would work for anyone bar Derren Brown?

I haven't been involved in any fights since I was at school (I do recall breaking a finger on someone's jaw once; which feels like a metaphor for life, really). But a few years ago I was at a blues gig in a multi-bar complex in Newtownards with Mrs H and a couple of friends. Towards the end of the night I found Mrs H rather shaken in a corridor on her way back from the ladies - some guy had made lewd remarks, I'm not sure I ever asked what exactly. But I was incensed and asked her to point him out. on the way through the front bar, towards the exit, she pointed across the room. I went over to this guy sitting at the bar with his girlfriend or whomever and told him he was a piece of sh*t and he'd better watch his step. The poor man looked utterly baffled. Mrs H tapped me on the shoulder and said, 'no, not him - him over there...'

I mumbled an apology to the guy at the bar and had to go and do the same routine to this other guy a couple of tables further in - also sitting with a lady-friend.

Sort of diminished the impact, but the second guy at least lived up to expectations by being a drunken bollox. Anyway, we cleared off pretty sharpish after I'd given him a piece of my mind. Still, I'd have been prepared to break another finger on his nose if it had come to it...

to enrol in a self-defence class or take up some martial art, given your size and weight. You are a prime target and are obviously giving off a 'victim' vibe if you've been mugged so often. These classes would at least give you self-confidence, which, in turn, would lessen the chances of you being dragged into these upsetting encounters. Given the propensity of blade-carrying in the West of Scotland, it is probably best that you did not engage with the moron.
I lived in Glasgow for 6 years and never had a spot of bother, mainly because I'm about a foot taller than the average, stunted ned.

It should be mandatory.

It can be justified in some circumstances (if someone breaks into your house and you are Duncan Ferguson - oh to be a fly on the wall). I have been in a few scrapes when I was younger, broke my hand on a couple of occassions which perfectly illustrated the futility of it all. Due to a recent accident I can no longer make a fist with my right hand so I will always avoid trouble where possible. I am quite tall and reasonably well built so I tend to get left alone. Where was the guard/ticketman on this particular journey from hell?