Entertainment For Lively Minds
"As an Artist You Can Crash Your Plane and Still Walk Away From It"
Posted by Charlie Mingles on 11 January 2012 - 5:55pm.
A Brian Eno quote that David Bowie uses to explain stuff like Tin Machine ie - okay not everyone likes it but at least he wasnt just churning out the same old stuff, Rolling Stones style.
I'd say you've at least got to admire him for trying something different.
What other very succesfully critically-acclaimed artists have had periods which can at best be filed in the drawer marked'Experimental'?
I know the obvious ones - Lou Reed, Neil Young, Van Morrison. But there must be noteable others?
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Tin Machine
Moments on the first of the two TM albums are amongst Bowie's very best - and are certainly head and shoulders above anything he'd done since Scary Monsters (with the possible exception of the Absolute Beginners and Cat People 12" singles).
Which moments?
Curious.
"I can't read"
and "Bus Stop" would fit the equation for me.
Tin Machine I is a fine album
Love "Bus Stop". I'd add "Heaven's In Here" and "Amazing" too.
I really do think going out on a limb, as with TM, was the best thing he could have done at the time. I mean what was he going to do - Never Let Me Down pt.2?!
There are others
The lyrics may be very ropy, but Under The God is a fine old racket. I also like Amlapura, One Shot and Goodbye Mr Ed off the second album.
Nobody's mentioned...
..."Prisoner Of Love", which sounds like it could've been on "Station To Station" or "Low". Classic Bowie. But in an unpopular beat combo.
...thanks. Giving it all a Spotify try
and some of the songs could be okay but I'm finding it hard to get past the drum sound. I'm not trying to come over all Mr Muso but there's something about that drum sound that really grates with me.
Joni Mitchell went out on a limb with her
Jazz/Rap album Mingus. A few of the tracks were OK as standalone pieces* but, overall, the experiment failed.
(* I'm thinking Dry Cleaner From Des Moines, Goodbye Pork Pie, God Must Be A Boogie Man)
I'd say the dry cleaner
Was a lot more than ok-and the live version on shadows and light is to my mind superb. This was the era when I first heard her, I had friends who liked jazz and jazz rock, so I'm a bit biased. But I'll admit I don't play it as often as something like Blue ...
Its interesting to wonder how she'd have continued if the previous, more fully realised jazz albums, particularly the double, had been more popular.
Not for me it didn't
For me Mingus is the last great Joni album (although I wouldn't disagree that it was seen by many as a failure). With the honourable exception of Chinese Cafe, there's not one song since then that I'd miss if I could never hear it again. In fact Joni Mitchell is a strange case in my affections, in that I've loved her music for 28 years, even though she hasn't done anything that great since I've been a fan.
I think I agree with you
In many respects, especially re Chinese cafe ... The bass at the beginning being one of those great sounds that you play and play a record just to hear again ...
Bbc radio 3 jazz library did a programme dedicated just to the jazz era of Jm only last year I think ... Probably still up ... Will post a link ...
Bruce - Nebraska
A bonkers move, commercially, after The River. He had the world at his feet and simply kicked it away. Hat-tippage.
Snr Mingles you are an agent provocateur.
I haven't had the opportunity to post the cover of Kevin Rowland's "My Beauty" for months and here you are, practically daring me to do it...
It is a marvellous album
Great songs, great arrangements, bravura performance.
"You hear that choir, that beautiful choir ? They're singing for you, just for you. It's gonna be OK"
Difficult cover, for some
im new here, so have no idea
im new here, so have no idea what that looks like - so knock yourself out sir
Ooh you are awful!
(Everybody else - look away ....now).
Well, I walked into that one.
That ... really is something ... quite special.
There's more...
I think he performed in this garb at either Glasto or Reading and there's a photo of him at the front of the stage with his foot on the monitor. Phwoar! No! I mean...yuk!
well, if there is such a
well, if there is such a thing as an initiation ceremony when you join this site, consider my head well and truly flushed down the toilet.
I dont quite know why, but John Cooper Clarke's Reader's Wives flashes through my mind when I see that photo:
Make a date with the brassy brides of Britain
The altogether ruder readers' wives
Who put down their needles and their knitting
At the doorway to our dismal daily lives
The fablon top scenarios of passion
Nipples peep through holes in leatherette
They seem to be saying in their fashion
'I'm freezing Charlie - haven't ya finished yet?'
Cold flesh the colour of potatoes
In an Instamatic living room of sin
All the required apparatus
Too bad they couldn't fit her head in
In latex pyjamas with bananas going ape
Their identities are cunningly disguised
By a six-inch strip of insulation tape
Strategically stuck across their eyes
Wives from Inverness to inner London
Prettiness and pimples co-exist
Pictorially wife-swapping with someone
Who's happily married to his wrist
http://www.johncooperclarke.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=articl...
NOw he IS a genius
It was Reading/Leeds
And I saw him at Leeds. I had some idea of what was coming, because the album cover had been in Q. But I was clearly in the minority as upwards of 50000 jaws hit the floor. I gather he got bottled at Reading, but I didn't see anything like that - people were just too stunned I suppose.
Anyway, the highlight was the bit in "The Greatest Love of All" where he sang these lines:
"No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my dignity..."
Brilliant! that paints such
Brilliant! that paints such a fantastic picture
youve got to admire his balls though. in fact, it sounds like doing so was unavoidable, particularly for the first three rows.
New Dexys
There is a new Dexys album coming this year. I believe it is all recorded and is being mixed etc as we speak.
I Was At Reading
and it started ok, he did You'll never Walk Alone and Concrete & Clay that went down ok with the mid afternoon slightly interested.
But it was 'The Greatest Love Of All" that riled the Whitney unfriendly mass. In the middle of the song one person threw a perfectly aimed bog roll that whacked him in the chest. He said "Shall I carry on" and the faithful down the front cheered so he finished
It was in no way a disaster in the same league as Daphne & Celeste a couple of years later. Bit of a "meh" really
Eye bleach at the ready
i cant believe ive lived
i cant believe ive lived this long without knowing any of this stuff, or seeing those quite astonishing photos. absolutely speechless. surely the ladyboy alan partridge of pop
Alan McGee tells the best story....
Finally signing his all time musical hero to Creation, betting the proverbial family farm in doing so and then Rowland turns in "My Beauty" and the subsequent Reading performance. I think McGee said he actually heard his money pissing away.
Rag Doll
Talking bit is around 4:50
ABC - Beauty Stab
Terrence Trent D'Arby - Neither Fish Nor Flesh
Paul Weller in a way you could argue the Style Council were a big step away from The Jam, certainly the early french/piano stuff
The Visitors by Abba, though that worked in my opinion, not so much chartwise.
Elvis Costello
Almost Blue, a record of country songs at a time when country was anything but cool. I quite liked it but the recent EC critique thread on here showed me to be in the minority.
Leonard Cohen - Death of a Ladies Man, lose the acoustic guitar and stripped back sound and get Phil Spector in as producer, it worked in parts but that was due to the words more than the music or style.
Joe Jackson's Jumpin' Jive, see Almost Blue but substitute "country" for "big band".
Scott Walker must take some beating
From proto-boyband popster, to left-field chansonnier, to what can only be described as...well, Tilt.
Tilt is for wusses.
You want The Drift or the Pola X soundtrack for proper wibblyness.
Not so much "My Ship is Comin' In" as "My Head Is Comin' Off".
....And Who Shall Go To The Ball?
Makes The Drift sound like Take That. I might enjoy where I to see the accompanying dance piece, but as music on its own even as a Scott obsessive I find it difficult to listen to
Slapping his meat
in more ways than one...
Using Eno as a ref
he played with Bono and the pope I think in a band called Passengers. Actually might not have been the pope but he was Italian.
They did one good track then some instrumentals.. bit disapointing really.
Did Bowie also offer the same excuse after Labyrinth?
he doesn't need to
apologise for nuffink
greatest pop star that ever was
"I am The Fireman"
Mind you, if it hadn't worked out I doubt that Paul McCartney would have owned up to it.
As official Word 'go-to' guy for them...
...I would have to nominate Talk Talk's shift from this
to this
(warning: starts with 18 secs of silence, do not adjust your set)
Few artists have been sued for releasing uncommercial albums, but TT are one of them.
Mark Hollis claims to have been been aiming for this all along, but could only do it when given unlimited studio time for what was to become Spirit of Eden.
Officially
the only band to start out as the poor man's Classix Nouveaux and end up as the rich man's Radiohead.
Although, concurrently ...
... Japan followed a similar trajectory - which David Sylvian continued, only more so, once they disbanded..
I could never
get round the fact, no I did not (similar to the majority) like Tin Machine, that the Tin Machine band were the same bunch that played on Lust For Life and The Idiot, possible the two finest Bowie non-official-Bowie records.
That was
Iggy's not-crashing-his-plane-and-walking-away-from-it moment.
The moment he lost his appetite for self-destruction and produced two absolute stonkers instead of some of the stinkers he had almost wrecked his career with over the years.
The Bowie versions of Neighborhood Threat and Tonight are by comparison dismal efforts, so it's wrong to overly credit Bowie with the success of the two albums. Tonight has to rank as the worst ever Bowie album with a joint Bowie-Iggy-Alomar composition and a cover of God Only Knows in which Bowie manages to out-parody his own vocal technique.
Tonight is still better than
Never Let Me Down - still the only Bowie album of which I don't own a physical copy.
It's a close run thing
Never Let Me Down is a pretty weak album, although it has a number of decent songs - and I may be alone in liking his cover of Iggy's Bang Bang. Tonight has three bloody good songs (Loving The Alien, Blue Jean, Dancing With The Big Boys), but its lows are lower than NLMD's.
Personally I don't think Let's Dance is very far above the relegation zone either: You've got the three hit singles and Criminal World, sure - but then you've got that pointless and inelegant remake of the excellent Cat People, plus Shake It, Without You and Ricochet, which are as dismal as anything he's ever done. Ricochet is just dreadful!
Two decades on...
...could we be approaching a previously unthinkable "Tin Machine Better Than Let's Dance" reassessment? May I also offer "Outside Better Than Lodger" and "Earthling Better Than Young Americans"?
Always crashing the same 'plane
Gary Numan actually did crash his and he did walk away.
Shame he couldn't do that with "No More Lies", the second(!)single he released with Shakatak's groovemeister general, Bill Sharpe.
Double whammy
Not only did Numan crash his plane (more than once I think), but he also came out in support of Thatcher and the Tories.
Both of those events are usually career-ending, so he did well to walk away from them.
OMD
went being the "Enola Gay" hitmakers to releasing Dazzleships, a quite frankly bizarre but very interesting album featuring Eastern bloc radio recordings, samples from Japanese TV adverts, Speak and Spell machines and submarine sonar. Naturally it bombed so in revenge Andy McCluskey foisted Atomic Kitten on the world.
Here's the title track
Worth a repeat airing
You're right, Humphrey - at the time, they were poptastic and were booked on shows like The Tube so that they could get the party started and raise the roof as everyone lost control of their crazy feet. Instead...
I love this.
Dazzle Ships
I only posted about this in the perfect albums thread yesterday!
Ry Cooder and Little Village
Nick Lowe, John Hiatt, Jim Keltner and Ry Cooder.
That line-up had already made perhaps Hiatt's greatest album 1987’s Bring The Family so on paper it should have been a monster.
In reality it was, if not a disaster, then a damp squib at best. To be fair I have several live shows from the 1992 US/European tour they did and the songs work much better live. But the solitary Little Village album languishes in the bargain bins these days.
All of them came back strongly from the experience though, especially Cooder.
some near crashes
Pink Floyd-Ummagumma (sides 3 and 4)
Cabaret Voltaire-Three Mantras (something of a 40 minute ambient dirge; they soon went back to shorter tracks)
Fiery Furnaces-Rehearsing My Choir (great pop band lurch into concept-album folly)
Goldie-Saturnz Return (jungle pioneer gets carried away; included a 60 minute track)
Wire-154 (debatable one this, as it has admirers, but I find this hard-going after the great song-based work of the previous albums)
Cabaret Voltaire...
... went completely the other way with 1990's "Groovy, Laidback & Nasty", a house album that even included production by Marshall Jefferson. Yes, there had always been a dance element to their music (as they say), but it still seemed a strange move. Even more bizarrely, it now sounds far more dated than their 70's work...
Doesn't apply to artists in all fields
Architects may walk away from their crashed plane, but the rest of us end up having to live with it.
Erm....
"as an artist you can crash your plane and walk away..."
A mighty inappropriate turn of phrase if you don't mind me saying...I knew I never liked Eno.
In the spirit of the OP, though I'd nominate Weller. From the behemoth of punk n rock n r & b selling by the bucketload in The Gift, putting out an experimental french jazz odyssey LP with Cafe Bleu but survived and prospered.
Chris Gaines
Without Googling, who was the huge country star who revinented himself as a rocker who looked like a mutant Stephen King and thereby blew it?
That would be Garth Brooks
I actually know someone who really likes him. Even the Gaines stuff
In 1982/3:
XTC have a top ten single, a top 5 album, are touring the world to ecstatic mass audiences, and are generally seen as one of the best live bands in the country. Shortly, everyone assumes, they'll break into the big leagues, along with the Police, U2, etc...
Whereupon, Andy Partridge promptly has a nervous breakdown, runs off stage at a French gig, retreats to his home in Swindon, and refuses to play live ever again. Their drummer - always an "uncomplicated" chap - quits in disgust, moves to Oz and becomes a builder.
The band wait a year before releasing "Mummer", one of the most wilfully uncommercial sidesteps imaginable. One or two of the songs ("Me and the Wind", anyone?) are virtually avant garde music. The others are, variously, pastoral acoustics (a couple of decades before it was cool), reggae pastiche, Indian music, cod-psychedelia.. you name it, and if it was off the commercial radar, Andy Partridge wanted to try it. Guess what? It tanks.
XTC never have another top 20 hit in Britain again. By 1986, their spoof psychedelic side project is outselling the album they've made under their own names. It takes an accidental blasphemy controversy - concerning an unregarded B-side of the 12-inch version of a single - in the USA, before their most commercial/together album for years ("Skylarking") starts to sell anything.
Now *that's* what I call a plane crash...