Artists you don't like...but not because of the music
Whilst posting on another thread on this site, I stated that I found it hard to like the music of Queen largely due to their enthusiasm for playing the whites only Sun City in South Africa in the 1980s. This got me thinking. Are their any bands or artists out there you simply cannot listen to, not because of the music per se, but because of the beliefs, actions and opinions of the people that make it? Can you separate the art from the artist? I don't necessarily dislike some of Queen's tunes, but the sight of them taking the stage at Live Aid to raise money for starving Africans after making a shedload of cash propping up the apartheid regime of SA really turned my stomach. Though their performance was terrific.
The podcasts often make fun of Van Morrison and his dour disposition, but I still love his music. I used to see him about a lot in Bath in the 1990s when he lived there. He was always barking into a mobile phone and people would actually cross the road to avoid walking past him. I was working in the local "Our Price" at the time and we would often take on temporary staff to cover busy times of the year. They were usually students, and part of our initiation process was to force them to serve "Van the Man" without being reduced to tears. If they stood up to him, they were in our gang. Van was a frequent visitor to our shop and would invariably complain that we didn't stock enough of his cds. One former shop manager made the mistake of telling him that it was because they didn't sell very well. Later that afternoon, we received a phone call from head office, informing us that Van had been on the phone to the CEO of Our Price giving him an absolute roasting. We were then ordered to stock up with as many Van cds as was humanly possible, and sure enough, Van himself was back in the shop a few days later, to make sure that we were well stocked with copies of Astral Weeks and Avalon Sunset. I don't like him any less for it, though. I think he's hilarious. Likewise, I find it difficult to dislike Phil Collins, though I know I should. He voted for and vocally supported Thatcher and then made a hefty wedge writing a song sympathising with the explosion in homelessness her policies created ("Another Day In Paradise"). But somehow, I can't help liking him, even feeling sorry for him. (Remember "Nonce Sense?") After all, Gary Numan, Paul Weller and Ian Curtis all voted Tory too and, with the possible exception of Numan, none are vilified for it. No one brings up the "People have more money in their pockets under the Tories" quote in front of Weller anymore, but they won't let Collins forget that he said he would leave the country if Labour got in. At least he had the courage of his convictions.
Why can I not forgive Clapton's Enoch Powell was right outburst onstage at the NEC in the 1970s but am perfectly happy to dismiss Bowie's "Nazi salute" at Victoria Station and carry on listening to his music. Why, as a former hunt saboteur, can I no longer listen to Roxy Music due to Ferry's Countryside Alliance dalliances and fox hunting offspring? Surely, I should just be able to enjoy the music without feeling uneasy about Ferry's recent "appreciation" of Nazi architecture. After all, Joy Division are my favourite band and we all know where they got their name from.
Conversely, I can't help liking certain people, despite not being a great fan of their output. I was a big Smiths fan, but I don't think much of Morrissey's solo output. Yet, as a vegan and animal welfare activist, I'm always interested in what he has to say and I'm keen for him to maintain his high profile. Likewise, I have a lot of respect for George Michael who, right from the early Wham days, insisted his records not be sold in South Africa. In fact, I believe he even fired his first manager for going against those very wishes. But I would rather die than listen to one of his albums from start to finish.
I once served Jim Davidson in the shop too. He was an absolute gentleman. Yet when I served Seal, he was a complete tosser. He wanted us to close the shop so he could look around "without being bothered by the public." When I refused and pointed out that no one in the shop had any idea who he was, he went ballistic. So I know which one I'd rather share a pint with, despite being poles apart from him politically. It's funny how these experiences inform your long term opinions of people.
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Love to love The Who
But find the "incident" difficult to reconcile. Thereby affecting my love.
Jim Davison
I once had the misfortune to be in a cafe in Swansea with Jim Davidson (he was starring in the local Grand Theatre at the time) and he acted like a completely embarrasing fool to the young waitress trying to serve him. He was patronising and rude completely needlessly. Never liked the guy before it and liked him even less after.
Excellent post!
I feel exactly the same. Have had to seriously reconsider my position on Billy Bragg (and i own nearly everything he's done) since this "incident".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/columnists/columnists.htm...
and his subsequent explanation just made things worse!
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/16/4620/
magic
nearly pissed myself.
So hang on a minute. Billy
So hang on a minute. Billy Bragg, a decent bloke with impeccable manners affords a bit of common courtesy to a decent old stick who hasn't put a foot wrong in over fifty years and - no matter what you might think about whether or not we should have a monarchy - has always had the nation's interests at heart, and you start chucking your copies of Life's A Riot, Brewing Up With and Workers Playtime out of your pram. Who are you, Rick from the Young Ones?
erm, no I'm not!
just a fan who assumed Billy & I were on the same page regarding the monarchy. I was obviously wrong.
Billy Bragg has spent twenty years in show business...
..and therefore he must have shaken hands with hundreds of people far more reprehensible than all the constitutional monarchs on earth.
I'm glad to see someone speaking up for Phil Collins...
...even if bashing him has become (bizarrely!) a national pastime. Most people who have met him seem to like him. I couldn't personally care less about his political persuasion (and I've never actually hear him say he voted Tory in the first place). His solo stuff I can take or leave but I love 'Face Value' and the odd track here and there. I love Genesis dearly though, and his work with Brian Eno, Brand X, John Martyn, Peter Gabriel etc. I've noticed Noel Gallagher likes to slag him off at every opportunity but I think Oasis are far more tiresome and cliched, personally.
Van Morrison is a complex case. I've read the 'No Surrender' biography and belligerence seemed to be a common occurance according to that. Adore his music though.
I saw a film-clip of the David Bowie Victoria Station incident and really, I couldn't see what the fuss was about. That Russell Harty telecast interview from 1976 is far more bizarre; a combination of inane questions and a rather out-of-it David Bowie. Read that 'Strange Fascination' book and there wasn't really anything too objectionable about Bowie as a person in there.
Agree on The Who; I remember I couldn't play any of their stuff for a long time after...as daft as it sounds.
Sun City
Sorry to be a pedant, but Sun City was not a Whites-only venue. It was in one of the 'Bantustans' that the South African regime declared as independent, though they were not recognised as such by any other government. Because it was 'outside' South Africa, Sun City was able to admit anyone it chose. Thus Queen, and the other artists who played there, played to integrated audiences.
However, this is not to defend Queen, who I think made a mistake playing there, but to get the often twisted facts straight.
Regarding Billy Bragg: to my knowledge he's always been clear as to his opinions about the monarchy. When i first saw him live, he spoke about how a generation still with us fought WWII in the name of the monarchy and how it would be hugely disrespectful to them, and to those who died, to bring it to an end.
And I never really liked John Lennon's solo stuff, mostly because he always seemed like, I hate to say, a bit of a knob.
If I'm honest......
...the problem is that I find it difficult to like music I have enjoyed as a minority taste when it becomes overly mainstream. I suspect, to sharp indrawing of breath, that many co-pilots on this site feel the same, even if they daren't admit it. What is the difference between "selling out" (the artist) and sour grapes (the fan) that everyone is in on the game, I muse?
I think I am getting better. At least I am prepared to admit that much I claimed allegiance to in the 60s/70s/80s/90s is unlistenable claptrap. And was then, merely giving a little self anointed credibility, probably only to me anyway.
(Well, how much is that, Dr, I feel so much better. And what a comfortable couch)
Primal Scream
They used to come into a club i ran in Brighton. Total D***heads.I might have actually liked the music but there was no way i was going to make the effort.
Other Knobs i have had the displeasure to encounter include Darren Emerson from Underworld and the aforementioned Jim Davidson,Total arse.
Nicest bloke Charlie Harper from The U.K Subs and Captain Sensible was cool as was Norman Cook.
I also Roadied for a while Worst band were The Brand New Heavies absolute wankers,The best Bryan Adams; Top Bloke.
But the winner overall for Top Man has to go to Joe Brown an absolute gent and a very funny man who had time for everyone.
I stand corrected
on Jim Davidson, then. I must have caught him on an off day. I've heard from several people that Joe Brown is a lovely chap. In my record store days, I had the "pleasure" of serving some really unpleasant people. The rudest had to be The Wonderstuff in about 1989. I watched Miles Hunt reduce a 15 year old schoolgirl to tears. Her crime? She asked for an autograph, and was met with a torrent of abuse from Hunt. A total wanker. My copy of Eight Legged Groove Machine ended up in the charity shop several days later and I haven't listened to them since. Michael Stipe was an arse too, which surprised me. Bono was a total dick, which didn't surprise me at all.
On the plus side, some were lovely, including Peter Gabriel. Very shy, but very, very nice. New order, who, much to my surprise, were very friendly and talkative. Toppest of them all though was Julian Cope. Not only the nicest musician I've ever spoken to, but one of the nicest, most charming and polite human beings I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with. I served him many times in the record shop, and he became a bit of a mate, bringing me in obscure krautrock cds to listen to. he even invited me to visit him backstage at a charity gig he played at a college near Bath. After I left the shop, we lost touch but I met him several years later at a book signing and he remembered me instantly. What a nice fella. As a result, I always make sure I buy his latest release from his website. His music may not always be to my taste but I'll never stop supporting him, simply on the basis that the music biz needs more people like him.
MIchael Jackson
He's had his "legal troubles" but when I listen to "Billie Jean", you can't help thinking he is a genius, a wonderful pop record.
His Jackson 5 output was just as good....but does his reputation ruin this? I hope not....
Of course never met the chap....
If we're getting into nice blokes in rock...
...I haven't met him face to face but when I was about 6 or so, believe it or not, I sent a letter to Peter Hammill (put it in with my dad's subscription to his newsletter) saying how much I appreciated his music. I also sent a childish drawing of VDGG. When the newsletter came, I also got a lovely reply on a postcard and his own stick-man drawing of VDGG. Very nice thing to do. He's another one that I haven't read a bad word about, actually.
Agreed
Met Peter Hammill in a record shop near Marble Arch (It was short lived but very good) The shop used to get some good acts in to showcase their new album and they booked PH to do a few songs from Skin. Not many were there but it didn't phase him at all. Gave a top performance, signed all the records and chatted away before just strolling out and hailing a cab. Top bloke.
Another gentleman is Ashley Hutchings, met him a few times and always has time for a chat.
PS
Bono's a tosser
Ike Turner
Never really recovered from his ex-GLW's revelations. Sad, because from a purely musical standpoint he deserved all the respect that would be given to James Brown, Sly Stone and George Clinton, if not more.
Don't go by the film though ...
... as I understand that the infamous scene where Ike rapes Tina may never have actually happened - apparently Ike signed away the right to have a scrupulously honest portrayal in the film (for a large cheque, which he appreciated was the "compensation"). He wan't a nice guy, and clearly behaved appallingly to Tina, but that doesn't mean the film is necessarily gospel truth.
The power of celluloid
As far as I know, Ike, unlike James Brown, was never actually convicted of domestic violence, but I suppose a rap sheet just doesn't have the power of a biopic when it comes to making or breaking reputations.
(Hmm. Unflattering, inaccurate or otherwise dodgy biopic portrayals. Has there been a thread on them yet?)
William Bennett of Whitehouse
Considering he's been villified by feminists and all right-thinking liberal sorts for his song titles and subject matter, I've corresponded with him on several occasions, both through the internet and by post, and found him to be polite, respectful and willing to discuss all sorts of topics.
Robert Fripp has always been a bit difficult, especially if you dare to ask for an autograph...
Andrew Eldritch is a bit of a sweetie though.
The same goes for Mark Eitzel, though as he readily admits, he can be a bit of a twat at times..never in Manchester though!
Artists that Entertain Us but We wouldn´t like to meet
David Frost once said that TV is a medium that permits us to be entertained in our homes by people we wouldn´t let inside the front door. I feel the sameway bout loads of singers, the boorish Gallagher bros, Morrissey, love his music but you know.., Paul McCartney seems quite boring, Ringo would be fun to have around for a few cold ones but not Paul.
Ringo....
.....which may well be why he had to give up the "few cold ones" many a long year back?
I always thought
Copey seemed like a thouroughly good egg - his memoirs show a decent side of a decent guy. However, my ex wife went to school with him and several years later when arranging a school reunion the committee made contact with him and asked if he was interested in attending - apparently there was no interest whatsoever and allegedly he was somewhat stuck up his own backside. On reflection maybe this reinforces my own opinion of his worthiness - the fact that he didnt want to associate with my ex-wife and her school chums does make perfect sense.
I have never cared for Morrissey either as a performer or as a person and horror of horrors is Paul McCartney really such a nice person? Compared to Heather Mills obviously but compared to the average man in the street I am not totally convinced.
Bruce Springsteen definitely comes across as a man of the people yet Bono attempts the same thing and fails miserably.
Also, why did Paul Simon get kicked in the bollocks for Graceland? He employed numerous Black South Africans in the process of recording this masterpiece and successfully raised the plight of the nation. Strange how people can jump to the wrong conclusions in the interests of a story.
The Damned
In '77 the Damned were due to play a festival but the promotors run out of money due to poor ticket sales (needed something like 15,000 paying punters but only got around 3,500). The Damned weren't going to play if they weren't getting paid so they left ("Fuck the Damned" was Peelies response). I stopped buying their records in protest (come to think of it I don't think I had actually bought any at that point!). But I had to relent when they released Love Song.
Can't listen to wacko jacko these days but I'm not sure if that is because of the trial or that his face is melting! However, can't imagine a life without hearing the Who's 5.15 again so Pete gets the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand I can live without hearing Gary Glitter again. (Didn't GG appear in Quadrophenia at Hyde Park c.96 for the Princes Trust gig? Is there a conspiracy theory I can start?)